Will the friendship change?

[s|k]

I wired my friend $150 last night because he's out of money and has no food and no gas. He's has been unemployed for a year now. He blames it on OCD, he does take medication for it and goes to counseling. We both went to college together and he's always been the rich kid. He didn't need school loans, his mom payed for everything, and when he graduated she bought him a brand new 2003 Toyota Celica (He graduated a year before I did). His mom has cut him off, as their relation has soured. So things got pretty bad for him and I wired him the money and told him he didn't have to pay me back (because loans ruin friendships). I'm currently unemployed and looking for work, I start school again next month, but I'll still need a part time job to make ends meet. He's always been a spoiled brat, but I couldn't let him not eat. I wont send him anymore. Anyhow, I haven't seen him online (we talk on IM and by phone these days as he lives in Sacramento, CA) since. I think he's going to sell his car. It's a big ego shock for him, I'm sure.

Will this change our friendship? For the better or for the worse?

Edit: He started a part time job last week. He wont get paid until the 25th.

[JammyJim]

You should never lend someone money unless you dont care if you never see it again. IT shouldnt change your friendship unless he thinks he has to pay it back and he might end up resenting you for it (in an odd way)..


tbh its usually best not to lend no matter how bad a situation someone is in but then again ive done the same thing rather recently because afterall. what are friends for?

[s|k]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

You should never lend someone money unless you dont care if you never see it again. IT shouldnt change your friendship unless he thinks he has to pay it back and he might end up resenting you for it (in an odd way)..


tbh its usually best not to lend no matter how bad a situation someone is in but then again ive done the same thing rather recently because afterall. what are friends for?

I didn't loan him the money, I told him he didn't have to pay it back. :/

[dda]

You must hope that he doesn't go psychotic. All of the psycho killers I have run into in the San Joaquin/Sacramento area who have gone psychotic have murdered those who tried to befrind them. I suggest that, just in case, you move and leave no forwarding address. Change your phone number, etc. But then I would probably give him the same advice about you.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by s|k

I didn't loan him the money, I told him he didn't have to pay it back. :/

Worst possible idea. You should have either given him it outright or drew up a proper contract. That way you'd both have known where you stood, which is preferable to the current situation where youre going to end up secretly resenting him for not offering to pay it back.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Worst possible idea. You should have either given him it outright or drew up a proper contract.

If a good friend was going to lend me $150 asked me to sign a contract I'm fairly sure I wouldn't consider that person a good friend anymore.

As has already been said, it depends on how you view these things. Since you've gone to the effort of making a thread about it then I'm guessing you're the sort of person to harbour resentments, as Nod says. Therefore it was probably a mistake.

To be honest, the phrase "loans ruin friendships" is only true if one of you is an uptight ass (or simply a git). I've either been owed or have owed money to friends pretty much every month since I was 16 (from a fiver to a thousand quid or so). And I've still got the same group of friends I do then - if anything we're closer for it (it means you've got people you can rely on). I think I've borrowed £100 every month from T&F for the last 6 months but we've yet to fall out over the issue....

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

If a good friend was going to lend me $150 asked me to sign a contract I'm fairly sure I wouldn't consider that person a good friend anymore.

Yeah, because obviously your friends should just give you the money for nothing. Asking someone to sign a contract is perfectly rational - it removes the 'should I pay it back/will he pay it back?' worms that gnaw people's minds and cause the friendship to deteriorate.

Our cultural attitudes towards the ethics of usury/money-lending are still fairly screwed up due to centuries of Christianity though, so I suspect that most people would share your opinion.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Yeah, because obviously your friends should just give you the money for nothing.

If they're a friend then they're giving it to you on your word. If you lend someone a few DVDs do you ask them to sign a contract? There is no "should I pay them back" dilemma if you're dealing with a friend - if there is then you might want to re-evaluate your friendships.

Obviously if someone is lending you ten thousand quid then sure, I can the need for contracts. For $150 dollars?

And even if they don't pay you back, what are you going to do? Realistically take them to court over what amounts to two days pay for someone in a mediocre job?

Then again, maybe this is an example of people using the term 'friend' in a strange context. I'd put my life in most of my friends hands, therefore the issue of trusting them with a pittance is not really a concern.

[SilverSmoke]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Yeah, because obviously your friends should just give you the money for nothing. Asking someone to sign a contract is perfectly rational

They shouldn't if they don't want I understand completely, it's never such a case anyway, when someone offers me money because of a shortterm financial problem (which happened a couple of times in my life) and they insist on keeping it, I always pay them back.

I would feel like a complete jackass if I throw up a pen and paper after lending someone an immensive amount of money like 150 pounds. When I'm badly in need of such an amount of money and someone who i considered a friend did that to me I would feel rather shit.

You can throw all kind of 'logics' but when a good friend loans a small amount of money has to sign a contract for it by his friend you're a ****ing asshole.

Originally Posted by Nodrog

sking someone to sign a contract is perfectly rational

It might be rational but it show you don't have 100% trust in your friends, also it means you will pull for the money with this contract in hand even if they unfortunately get in a even worser financial situation.

Originally Posted by Nodrog

someone to sign a contract is perfectly rational

Can't stop reacting on this, doing this to a good friend for an gigantic amount of let's say 150 pound makes you a ****ing asshole.

[wu_trax]

Money is overrated. I would have done the same. as JJ said it, waht are friends for? He should offer to pay it back once his finacial situation is better though, no matter what you said.

[pig]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

If a good friend was going to lend me $150 asked me to sign a contract I'm fairly sure I wouldn't consider that person a good friend anymore.

As has already been said, it depends on how you view these things. Since you've gone to the effort of making a thread about it then I'm guessing you're the sort of person to harbour resentments, as Nod says. Therefore it was probably a mistake.

To be honest, the phrase "loans ruin friendships" is only true if one of you is an uptight ass (or simply a git). I've either been owed or have owed money to friends pretty much every month since I was 16 (from a fiver to a thousand quid or so). And I've still got the same group of friends I do then - if anything we're closer for it (it means you've got people you can rely on). I think I've borrowed £100 every month from T&F for the last 6 months but we've yet to fall out over the issue....

Im in exactly the same position, at the moment one friend owes me £600, another £500, 3 others £110 (bills from my house), another £300, another £150 and another £120.

Now thats close to £2000 im owed. However these are people who have leant me significant amounts in the past, these are also people who are like brothers to me. IF I have the money sitting in my bank account, I would rather they borrow it than it just sit in my account or I spend it. When I lend money theres an agreement my friends will pay it back, but thats as far as it goes. When they have the money they will give it back, when I need the money they will find ways to get it back to me.

Incidently if I turned round today to all the people who owe me, im sure I could get close to £2000 by next friday. Now the question is does it strengthen or weaken a friendship. Personally I think it strengthens a friendship. Lending money to friends when they need it is one of the biggest favours you can do. For example two of my friends back home dont have a job, so when we go out I get the drinks or little things like the £1 for a game of pool, now that means alot to them, because someone is looking out for them. The way I think is when my friends are in need I shall help them, when im in need they shall help me (and they have in the past)

I think what you are doing is a great thing s|k although $150 might seem like alot atm, its not that much and the guy seems to be taking a step in the right direction by getting a job etc. When hes sorted out he will remember that you were there when no one else was and when your in need you will be helped out by him.

By the way I also think whats good to do as a friend is forget some debts. like if you lend a mate twenty quid on a night out, never ask for it back, never, never, if they offer then thats different. Just the way I think, dont keep a track of whos round it is etc, dont be tight, at the end of the day its money, respect it but dont let it rule your life.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

As has already been said, it depends on how you view these things. Since you've gone to the effort of making a thread about it then I'm guessing you're the sort of person to harbour resentments, as Nod says. Therefore it was probably a mistake.

I don't resent it. I don't know how honest that statement is. He had no food and no money, I couldn't let him be in that state, I was worried about him. I did make it clear that he didn't have to pay me back before I gave him the money.

I have talked to him since online, and I don't know, it is a bit weird to me right now, but hopefully that will go away with time.

[Deepflow]

Originally Posted by s|k

I don't resent it. I don't know how honest that statement is. He had no food and no money, I couldn't let him be in that state, I was worried about him. I did make it clear that he didn't have to pay me back before I gave him the money.

I have talked to him since online, and I don't know, it is a bit weird to me right now, but hopefully that will go away with time.

Right this second he could be injecting your 150 dollars into his groin.

Just mentioning it

[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by pig

Incidently if I turned round today to all the people who owe me, im sure I could get close to £2000 by next friday.

try it.

We'll call it a 'GD investigation into the theory of money-lending between associates'. this will then settle this argument or partly ruin your life.

But on the upside we cold take bets and you could make some of your £2000 back if you lose all your friends.

[pig]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

try it.

We'll call it a 'GD investigation into the theory of money-lending between associates'. this will then settle this argument or partly ruin your life.

But on the upside we cold take bets and you could make some of your £2000 back if you lose all your friends.

either way its a win, win situation

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

If they're a friend then they're giving it to you on your word. If you lend someone a few DVDs do you ask them to sign a contract? There is no "should I pay them back" dilemma if you're dealing with a friend - if there is then you might want to re-evaluate your friendships.

Personally, if a friend was lending me a non-trivial sum of money, then I would prefer to do things in a proper way, including them charging me interest. Anything else and I would feel like I was accepting charity.

[Deepflow]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Personally, if a friend was lending me a non-trivial sum of money, then I would prefer to do things in a proper way, including them charging me interest. Anything else and I would feel like I was accepting charity.

why are you against accepting charity?

[JonnyBGood]

Myself and my friends always lend each other money, it probably stems from poker debts back when we started playing. I'd never worry about any of them paying me back or not. Even if I forget a) they usually don't and b) these sorts of things balance each other out in the long run.

[queball]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Anything else and I would feel like I was accepting charity.

So are you going to send back that £20?

[pig]

Originally Posted by JBG

b) these sorts of things balance each other out in the long run.

I think thats the main thing, the general principle of what comes around goes around is so true amongst close friends.

[Deepflow]

Originally Posted by queball

So are you going to send back that £20?

Don't forget the interest.

[s|k]

The incentive to bond with nodrog is a profitable friendship.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Personally, if a friend was lending me a non-trivial sum of money, then I would prefer to do things in a proper way, including them charging me interest. Anything else and I would feel like I was accepting charity.

Charity is a one-way thing. If my friend lends me £100 when I need it it's not charity because the understanding is that I'll lend him money if he ever needs it.

Similarly, if I was moving house and needed a friend to help me move my stuff, even if it took most of the day I wouldn't dream of drawing up some sort of employment contract and paying them an hourly rate (unless I knew they were ridiculously broke and too proud to accept cash directly). Not because I'm into accepting charity, but because I'd do the same for them. That is one of the benefits of friendships.

No offence, but it sounds like you don't actually have any close friends if you feel that contracts are proper ways to behave.

[dda]

Originally Posted by THE BARD OF AVON

Neither a borrower nor a lender be
For loan oft loseth both itself and a friend
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

Someone had to say it properly.

[SilverSmoke]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

No offence, but it sounds like you don't actually have any close friends if you feel that contracts are proper ways to behave.

Exactly how I feel when I read Nodrog's posts in this thread, it's quite sad.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by SilverSmoke

Exactly how I feel when I read Nodrog's posts in this thread, it's quite sad.

I'll be his friend. *















*Since I'm likely to make money from it.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Yeah, because obviously your friends should just give you the money for nothing. Asking someone to sign a contract is perfectly rational - it removes the 'should I pay it back/will he pay it back?' worms that gnaw people's minds and cause the friendship to deteriorate.

I'd feel like a real jerk if I asked one of my friends to sign a contract.

I trust my friends - that's why they're my friends. If they were untrustworthy or I had lent them money in the past without being repaid, I wouldn't do it again.

I often lend out and borrow money. At university I owed one of my friends near £200 or so, and I paid it back. If I hadn't, I'd have picked up a reputation and been pushed out of my friendship group.

If you have to draw up a contract, I wouldn't say that they're a friend. They're someone you know, but don't wholly trust.

[sigrid]

he should have sold his car before asking you for cash tbh.
And also, some ppl never learn untill they HAVE to learn, and as long as ppl help them out, they dont feel they have to make the effort to get their life back together and take his own responsibility.