User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Suggestions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 10 May 2010, 15:57   #1
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Alternative approach on ship stats

Yeah right, I have too much time at the moment. so I thought about how PA could be made different and also more accessible for new players and give those long year players something different.
The idea is get rid of T1 T2 and T3 and set a base damage to every ship. Then add some bonus/malus against different types of ships, like Harpy gets 100% on base damage against FI class. Shipstats would look like this then:

Harpy - Base damage: 4

FI = +100% (=8)
CO = +50% (=6)

FR = +10%
DE = x (means base damage)

CR = -25%
BS = -50%

(Note this is only an example)

This basically is a free fire shipstats but ppl wouldn't build Harpy against BS class ships because of the low damage (-50% = 2 ).
You'd have no ships not firing but you'd still have ships specialized to take out certain classes. Adding special bonus against a certain shiptype would also be plausible like XAN Peacekeeper (BS Class) gets an additional bonus against XAN CR because the unit description says this ship is used to fight mainly other XAN CRs.

I think this way the game would become much more interesting. Of course this whole thing needs more than just a little brainstorming like i did now but I'm sure those stats experts - once they like this idea - could make a really nice stats setup.

Please discuss here and tell me if you like it.
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 16:11   #2
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

I like it, though I'd probably go for a different implementation.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 16:44   #3
ricoshay
Save energy: Be apathetic
 
ricoshay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 228
ricoshay is a splendid one to beholdricoshay is a splendid one to beholdricoshay is a splendid one to beholdricoshay is a splendid one to beholdricoshay is a splendid one to beholdricoshay is a splendid one to beholdricoshay is a splendid one to beholdricoshay is a splendid one to behold
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

I also like it. Could be a pretty interesting path to follow in the future and at worst it would be a round of something different, which isn't bad at all at this point.
__________________
Ascendancy - Land'n'Crash Inc.
ricoshay is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 17:20   #4
Sun_Tzu
Arrogant Fck
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
Sun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

Well, this isn't the first time this has been discussed, I even worked on an implementation of it for Kombat for a while, although with a bit more "logical" scaling system.

At the end of the day, while I'd probably enjoy the beauty of such a system and how it's logical and realistic, it would change the nature of the game in a direction which I'm not sure most people would enjoy. I'm not saying it would be bad, but it's going further towards simplifying choices and emphasizing defensive play.

Personally I'm a big fan of a balance between defense and offense, and to that effect I believe a well balanced multitargeting set without the use of T3 = * is the best choice.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
Sun_Tzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 17:28   #5
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
Well, this isn't the first time this has been discussed, I even worked on an implementation of it for Kombat for a while, although with a bit more "logical" scaling system.

At the end of the day, while I'd probably enjoy the beauty of such a system and how it's logical and realistic, it would change the nature of the game in a direction which I'm not sure most people would enjoy. I'm not saying it would be bad, but it's going further towards simplifying choices and emphasizing defensive play.

Personally I'm a big fan of a balance between defense and offense, and to that effect I believe a well balanced multitargeting set without the use of T3 = * is the best choice.
hmm.. Changing defense/offense values by a multiplier would also be an option to encourage offensive play.

For example harpy could get an additional +10% on offense or something like that. I think multipliers are much more versatile than fix values. Modifying them for different situations would be possible.
Also this change doesnt have to be final. Like now every round system changes from MT to ST PA could change from fix shipstats to multiplier shipstats
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 18:31   #6
Sun_Tzu
Arrogant Fck
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
Sun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
hmm.. Changing defense/offense values by a multiplier would also be an option to encourage offensive play.

For example harpy could get an additional +10% on offense or something like that. I think multipliers are much more versatile than fix values. Modifying them for different situations would be possible.
Also this change doesnt have to be final. Like now every round system changes from MT to ST PA could change from fix shipstats to multiplier shipstats
The key difference is that this system requires a re-write of the battlecode, and while you could have a single system that allowed for turning this feature on or off, it's still a rather huge commitment to undertake if indeed it weren't permanent.

As for multipliers, or indeed sliding scales as is the next logical progression (calculating additional stopping power and "overkill" based on armour-value relations), while it does allow for greater fine-tuning it does detract from the acsessability of the stats. This is a bad thing because then the morons that make up 99% of the playerbase would be further disadvantaged as their tiny brains wouldn't be capable of making a judgement about targets as quickly as those of us who do not suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome.

/Bitter tirade.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
Sun_Tzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 19:02   #7
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

I still like the system mosc once proposed over on the PIA forums, in which two properties get added to ships: the good old weapon speed and agility, while targetting is removed completely. Ships with high WpSp are good against ships with high Agil, but bad against ships with low Agil. Ships with low WpSp are good against ships with low Agil, but bad against ships with high Agil. Note that size doesn't come into this, in theory you could have a highly agile battleship, as well as a slug-like fighter.

While getting a complete understanding of the stats would indeed, as Tzu said, be harder, it would be easier to get a rudimentary understanding, because mistakes aren't punished as harshly as they are now.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 19:28   #8
Sun_Tzu
Arrogant Fck
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
Sun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I still like the system mosc once proposed over on the PIA forums, in which two properties get added to ships: the good old weapon speed and agility, while targetting is removed completely. Ships with high WpSp are good against ships with high Agil, but bad against ships with low Agil. Ships with low WpSp are good against ships with low Agil, but bad against ships with high Agil. Note that size doesn't come into this, in theory you could have a highly agile battleship, as well as a slug-like fighter.

While getting a complete understanding of the stats would indeed, as Tzu said, be harder, it would be easier to get a rudimentary understanding, because mistakes aren't punished as harshly as they are now.
There have been a number of suggested implementations for this, but I fear the time for this idea may have passed. At the very least, I cba to get people up to speed in order to allow the conversation to properly continue on the level that it did back in those days.

Thanks for prompting a nostalgia-trip though, went back to PIA forums and bumped into this golden nugget:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosc
Sun_Tzu, you may be smarter than me, a better player than me, and more experienced than me, but ur still an ass.
<3
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
Sun_Tzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 21:32   #9
t3k
The Video Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
t3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

He's right, you are an ass.

He still had a couple of golden nuggets when it came to ideas, despite having to dig through a mountain of mud to find them <3
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
t3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 21:53   #10
Sun_Tzu
Arrogant Fck
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
Sun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
He's right, you are an ass.

He still had a couple of golden nuggets when it came to ideas, despite having to dig through a mountain of mud to find them <3
I've never claimed to be anything but! And those who endured enough abuse and tried to slug it out and actually learn usually did, over time, improve and become better. Ah fs, now I'm starting to miss Mammoth
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
Sun_Tzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 22:08   #11
t3k
The Video Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
t3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

I made his forum sig!
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
t3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 May 2010, 22:58   #12
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
Thanks for prompting a nostalgia-trip though
I was tempted to go there myself but then I didn't.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 May 2010, 00:00   #13
Reincarnate
ToF
 
Reincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 607
Reincarnate is a name known to allReincarnate is a name known to allReincarnate is a name known to allReincarnate is a name known to allReincarnate is a name known to allReincarnate is a name known to all
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

wow this thread got off topic really quick :O
__________________
[19:10] <coffee-> dont worry about Reincarnate he is an angry man

R1 - 9 none | R10.5 - 13 [ToF] | R14 [Reunion] | R15-17 [Subh] | R18 - 36 PA vacation | R37 [Evo] | R38 [NFI] | R39 & 40 [ToF] | R41 [Omega] | R42 - 47 [ToF][HC]
Reincarnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 May 2010, 19:31   #14
Sun_Tzu
Arrogant Fck
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
Sun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
wow this thread got off topic really quick :O
No worries, I already declared the actual topic dealt with, so there wasn't anything to discuss any longer.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
Sun_Tzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Aug 2010, 16:59   #15
MrLobster
Commander in Briefs!
 
MrLobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
MrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud of
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Yeah right, I have too much time at the moment. so I thought about how PA could be made different and also more accessible for new players and give those long year players something different.
The idea is get rid of T1 T2 and T3 and set a base damage to every ship. Then add some bonus/malus against different types of ships, like Harpy gets 100% on base damage against FI class. Shipstats would look like this then:

Harpy - Base damage: 4

FI = +100% (=8)
CO = +50% (=6)

FR = +10%
DE = x (means base damage)

CR = -25%
BS = -50%

(Note this is only an example)

This basically is a free fire shipstats but ppl wouldn't build Harpy against BS class ships because of the low damage (-50% = 2 ).
You'd have no ships not firing but you'd still have ships specialized to take out certain classes. Adding special bonus against a certain shiptype would also be plausible like XAN Peacekeeper (BS Class) gets an additional bonus against XAN CR because the unit description says this ship is used to fight mainly other XAN CRs.

I think this way the game would become much more interesting. Of course this whole thing needs more than just a little brainstorming like i did now but I'm sure those stats experts - once they like this idea - could make a really nice stats setup.

Please discuss here and tell me if you like it.
Yes Necro!

hmmm I'm against this because the best ships to use would be FR/DE.

FI = -25%
CO = -10%

FR = 0
DE = 0

CR = -10%
BS = -25%

This is the current problem that I see we have with PA...

Meta 1 (FI/CO) - Targets FI/CO/FR/DE
Meta 2 (FR/DE) - Targets FI/CO/FR/DE/CR/BS
Meta 3 (CR/BS) - Targets FR/DE/CR/BS

Meta 2 gets all the glory, and as such are the most built "defence" ships.
__________________
<Kila> WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY PRECIOUS FORUMS
<Zeyi> 24h forum closure
<Zeyi> all posts recalled

"he's got a proven track record when it comes to showy art composition" - Tommy

<Sigi> Light: can I ask u how many open internet-windows u always have?
<MrLobster|PM> i have 2, the pa page, and the website for naked light pictures
<Ave> both has bad gfx
MrLobster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Aug 2010, 17:29   #16
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

I would go for a master of orion type of an implementation where everyone designs their own ships according to their base hulls. For certain races, certain attributes are cheaper. All attributes are however calculated by a dimunishing returns to price.

So a terran would get cheaper armor on their ships. This would mean that for the same marginal increase in price they would get the same marginal increase in armor on higher level (say, 10 cost, 10=> 11 armor, against xandathrii's 15 cost for 10=>11 armor or 10 cost for 6-7 armor). You'd have a certain amount of allocated budget per hull type (much like world of thatcraft functions with gear's item budgets; an item level, here, hull size, limits the amount of total budget a gear piece can have, and all stats that can be allocated in a gear are subject to dimunishing returns et cetera, however here with the race twist).

Boom boom boom boom.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Aug 2010, 08:57   #17
Zazas
Dead
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6
Zazas is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Alternative approach on ship stats

Do not forget about targeting priority
and init.
Zazas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018