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19 Mar 2015, 23:32
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#1
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Ex-Head Multihunter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: At home
Posts: 900
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Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
So,
I thought about this change when i learnt about it and thought: wth, why?
WHY?????
What is the benefit? YOu want to spread out ships over the different types you think of? Why would you ? Why does PA Team insist on making things up to make the game more and more static? Why on earth would you encourage ppl to move away from a perfectly valid strategy?
Same with the galaxy fund. Please just LET them! Why ruin another strategy?
Please PLEASE come to your senses and allow ppl their freedom! Ditch this stupid new feature.
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20 Mar 2015, 00:08
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
I actually quite like the idea. It prevents allys from just spamming 1 or 2 ships. It also makes people think of Different strats because they will ultimately have a 5-7% value increase over the allys that all have the same strat.
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R50-55 Faceless
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20 Mar 2015, 03:07
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
I'm fairly indifferent to the ship cost variance, but I fail to see how encouraging people to build different ships would make the game more static.
The galaxy fund has been abused for long enough now and I'm glad something has finally been done.
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20 Mar 2015, 09:11
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
One the one side you dont like them removing a strategy(quite abusive one) and on the other side you dont like that they add something that adds a strategic element to the game ?
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20 Mar 2015, 21:19
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#5
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
What is the benefit?
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Ships that are recognized as better than others becoming slightly more expensive (and thus worse) as a result seems like a fairly reasonable change to me. Not a huge deal. I'm not sure why you're so upset about it.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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20 Mar 2015, 22:51
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#6
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Its actualy a pretty good change.
Some alliances can gain from being "abnormal"
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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21 Mar 2015, 13:15
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#7
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Leader Of The Gang
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 455
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
i personally like these changes
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Round 91 - Lucky7 - Rank 50th.
Round 92 - Lucky7 - Rank 39th.
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21 Mar 2015, 19:57
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#8
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Good Son
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
i can't understand how this limits people's freedom however
it's not like you can't build some ship or someone's forcing you to build another
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"Oh, wretched race of a day, children of chance and misery, why do ye compel me to say to you what it were most expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is for ever beyond your reach: not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. The second best for you, however, is soon to die". Silenus, tutor to Dionysos, speaking to King Midas.
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21 Mar 2015, 20:38
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
well atm the formula is ****ed up and needs fixing or you can ditch it. rollback
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21 Mar 2015, 21:26
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
That might be something that happens but I do like the idea of it. Although it might be wise for it not to start till like tick 72 or something because +5% value on attack ships the first few days really favors the def.
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R50-55 Faceless
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21 Mar 2015, 23:36
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#11
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
That might be something that happens but I do like the idea of it. Although it might be wise for it not to start till like tick 72 or something because +5% value on attack ships the first few days really favors the def.
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You shouldve rushed CR/BS
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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22 Mar 2015, 01:04
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Who's to say i didnt
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R50-55 Faceless
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22 Mar 2015, 10:22
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
I find it utterly shit, amongst several/all of the last changes.
I thought planetarion was in dire need of an upgrade, but this is just several steps backwards.
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22 Mar 2015, 11:45
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#14
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
I find it utterly shit, amongst several/all of the last changes.
I thought planetarion was in dire need of an upgrade, but this is just several steps backwards.
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how is this change shit?
in recent rounds stats been under critism, and this surely should have a impact on bad stats
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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22 Mar 2015, 16:52
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
how is this change shit?
in recent rounds stats been under critism, and this surely should have a impact on bad stats
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in what sense does this change impact bad stats?
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22 Mar 2015, 17:41
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#16
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
in what sense does this change impact bad stats?
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Last round there was basicly no ziks, having this feature would made it more lucrative
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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22 Mar 2015, 18:09
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Last round there was basicly no ziks, having this feature would made it more lucrative
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how is this relevant to race selection?
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22 Mar 2015, 18:41
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#18
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
how is this relevant to race selection?
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Going something diffrent pays off?
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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22 Mar 2015, 20:15
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#19
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Going something diffrent pays off?
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not really, as it's on a per race bases, so races that only have 1 viable fleet option are worse off than races that have multiple, making it harder to balance stats as all races 'need' a second viable option or they have a permanent value penalty.
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Last edited by Influence; 22 Mar 2015 at 20:34.
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22 Mar 2015, 20:41
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
I was under the impression after looking at the forumula that it wasnt race specific and that it accounted for all the ships in universe and those built less are going to be -% that being said if that is the case then yes going something different is quite lucrative also going Zik is quite lucrative because when your ships die to steal the % should drop and making the rebuy cheaper.
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R50-55 Faceless
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22 Mar 2015, 21:02
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#21
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Actually, nm me, it's not race specific, i misread it. Races that have less value do generally have cheaper ships.
current stats [PT49]
Race - Average Cost
Terran - 98.72%
Cathaar - 97.94%
Xandathrii - 97.08%
Zikonian - 98.33%
Eitraides - 100%
Class - Average Cost
Fighter - 102.39%
Corvette - 102.50%
Frigate - 97.36%
Destroyer - 97.86%
Cruiser - 95.00%
Battleship - 95.00%
also, currently there are only 3 ships that aren't at the far edge of the cost modifier, being:
Harpy - 104.78%
Viper - 101.49%
Phantom - 99.53%
DISCLAIMER: ships currently in production are not included in this calc.
P.S. I'll try to re-do this calc periodically, hopefully it will result in a nice chart at the end of the round
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Last edited by Influence; 22 Mar 2015 at 21:44.
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22 Mar 2015, 22:10
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#22
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Yes, that would be interesting information to have. Please do!
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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23 Mar 2015, 14:41
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#23
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
for those that are interested in seeing the 'live' calculations for all ships. I've published a beta version of the results from my calc here
please keep in mind that updating is a manual process and that i am still working on improving the way the calc works internally so data isn't always 100% correct. Also, it's a calc based on the universe ship overview so it does not include ships in production, while the actual formula does.
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don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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23 Mar 2015, 15:40
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Don't put to much work into theese numbers yet at the function isn't implemented as intended.
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23 Mar 2015, 18:53
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Why not simply do it based on total value ranking? For example, the 4 most built ships would be 5% extra, the next 4 4% extra, etc. down to the 4 least built ships which would be 5% cheaper.
It's not a perfect solution but it's much better than its current installment.
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23 Mar 2015, 21:22
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
It would be very flawed to have it that way if there are many ships on about the same value level. But yeah it would be way better than what it is now, but I reckon its better to have it the way it was meant to be instead.
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24 Mar 2015, 05:31
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
I know, which is why I said it's not the perfect solution - it's a bandaid fix for this round that should be (relatively) easily implemented. I've yet to hear any ship be anything other than 5% up or down.
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24 Mar 2015, 06:36
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
its just as hard to implement that as the real thing tho :P
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24 Mar 2015, 08:59
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
I'd argue that the 'real thing' would be a much more complex formula.
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24 Mar 2015, 09:17
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
already gave him the formulas
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26 Mar 2015, 01:50
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#31
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Updated the calc with the new formula. keep in mind the calc does not include ships in production, and as such the ouputvalues isn't the actual cost. Especially early round, ships in production can have quite a bit of impact on the calc.
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don't be an arse, join [TiT]
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26 Mar 2015, 01:54
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
yeah finally working as intended good it got fixed this early before it gives a real impact on the round.
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27 Mar 2015, 18:09
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#33
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Old User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 9
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Davidsr .. I really do not care what they do. I will still play.
Good luck
Davidsr
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27 Mar 2015, 18:50
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
they fixed it
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27 Mar 2015, 22:25
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#35
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
Unrelatedly, every time I skim the title of this thread I think it's spam. :(
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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29 Mar 2015, 01:09
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
If only, then it would be deleted.
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29 Apr 2015, 19:24
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#37
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Internal Error
Join Date: May 2002
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 696
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
As this feature was first introduced this round, I must say I enjoyed it.
There's your feedback.
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Nitros
[]LCH[] ..lets change history
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30 Apr 2015, 07:32
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
i wouldn't mind seeing a +/-10% for next round
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Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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30 Apr 2015, 08:40
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: Production cost variance -5% to +5% new in R61 - Ditch it (Its a suggestion!)
after it got fixed it worked great. 10% is too much imo
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