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Unread 8 May 2005, 21:17   #1
noah02
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SiNND

3 8 SiNND 56953 100 1,696,352 169,635,214

A new alliance arises a combined effort has started and gone to 3rd place.
What do you think?
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Unread 8 May 2005, 21:23   #2
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Re: SiNND

fighting a lost cause, doing anythign to win, which wont happen. need more?
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Unread 8 May 2005, 21:27   #3
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Re: SiNND

Why didn't ND merge with 1up? They've been playing as one alliance for long enough haven't they?

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Unread 8 May 2005, 21:29   #4
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Re: SiNND

What are you on about ND would never merge with anyone
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Unread 8 May 2005, 21:39   #5
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Re: SiNND

lets just see were this goes?
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Unread 8 May 2005, 21:50   #6
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Re: SiNND

Hehe, i won't complain. LCH and HR did something similar a few rounds ago (resulting in FYTFO) and we were massacred in AD for it. :-)

If they did it, then hurray for them, let them, i don't care. As long as they didn't kick mass members to make it 100, like some other alliance did last round or the round before (forgot which one)
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:03   #7
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
As long as they didn't kick mass members to make it 100, like some other alliance did last round or the round before (forgot which one)
Lol well ND were down what, 17 members?
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Unread 10 May 2005, 18:53   #8
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
Hehe, i won't complain. LCH and HR did something similar a few rounds ago (resulting in FYTFO) and we were massacred in AD for it. :-)

If they did it, then hurray for them, let them, i don't care. As long as they didn't kick mass members to make it 100, like some other alliance did last round or the round before (forgot which one)
the phraktos/mistu merge in round 11, i think you are talking about..
Merges can either wreck everything or make things better... is a bold move actually. And there is still almost a month left of the game... So who knows what will happen.
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Unread 10 May 2005, 19:22   #9
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Re: SiNND

Oh good lord.

Yes, we said that Auld shouldn't go into vacation mode. And if you didn't run off into vacation mode, we would have had more resources to deal with the hostiles that came up, and we would have had more resources to put out better attacks to alleviate pressure on us.

Your accusations about using ETY to soak up defense are unfounded, completely false, and slanderous.

I've outlined what ND did and why about four hundred bazillion times since then and I've no desire to do it again. I'm sorry that your clouded judgement still reigns supreme.

Cheers.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 21:52   #10
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Re: SiNND

less complaints here so far than i expect o_O

i bet people would complain if angels and exil kicked the inactives and merged tho!
lifes not fair i tells yee
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:00   #11
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeKiller
less complaints here so far than i expect o_O

i bet people would complain if angels and exil kicked the inactives and merged tho!
lifes not fair i tells yee
Yeah. Two top 10 alliances (one of them mostly in the lead and effective #1) is surely the same as ND and Sin's situation.

Here's a penny.

Buy yourself a clue.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:18   #12
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
Yeah. Two top 10 alliances (one of them mostly in the lead and effective #1) is surely the same as ND and Sin's situation.

Here's a penny.

Buy yourself a clue.
Well if rankings don't matter so much as you seem to be implying (yes whether the merge was or wasn't for rankings doesn't change the fact they moved to 3rd), then why wouldn't two larger allies be allowed to merge? And thanks for the penny but I think you need it first.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:23   #13
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Re: SiNND

they are allowed to merge beekiller. you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:26   #14
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeKiller
Well if rankings don't matter so much as you seem to be implying (yes whether the merge was or wasn't for rankings doesn't change the fact they moved to 3rd), then why wouldn't two larger allies be allowed to merge? And thanks for the penny but I think you need it first.
Sorry, no 10 day returns. I really don't need that penny - I have enough.

I will attempt to use some simple words to make it understood for you as you're obviously looking to try and debate my logical and coherent viewpoint (Do note I say viewpoint, as I understand not everyone can see this)

People are throwing examples of Exilition and <insert> around.

Firstly, compare Exilition to either ND and SIN. ND/SIN merged not to gain rank but to function as an alliance with this game - without it, we'll be left with 100 odd players not happy with the game (and thus growing inactive and whatnot or just playing half-hearted - note I do not mean every one of them, I making a grande blanket statement for the state of mind)

If Exilition merged with another alliance, its not to function as an alliance (as their ranking and progress obviously suggest) but merely for ranking.

This is the difference. Two high ranking alliances merging just to create a better average score is not in the interests of this game.

Two lower ranking alliances to function as a competative alliance and fight the good fight is in the interests of this game (but perhaps not necessarily yours)

Loves and kisses,

Edit - Officially, they would be allowed to merge at a guess. I'm giving my own personal beliefs as I believe a 'reasoning' behind the merge is of interest.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:04   #15
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Re: SiNND

to be honest i am shoked, that someone in the PATEAM authed such merge, i remember kal saying once that he wouldnt merge an alliance if this would affect directly the ranking in top5.
Basically, i dont have any problem with ND and sin merging and joining force, but knowing this will be a short term merging (like FYFTO) and they are ranked now #3, which mean they misplaced around 10 alliances in their way up, i am way dissapointed with PATEAM.
I claim this has been done without very much thinking about such impact on the Planetarion memberbase.
We are customer paying and playing for our alliances to win and end top1, or ranked high, joining such force is like bypassing or ruining work that some alliance down there have been putting in for the whole round.
What the next step? merging exilition with another alliance to take out #1? merging 1up with another alliance to take #2? will the admin grant such merge or will it be a one time bribed merge?

As paid customer i expect the admin to bend rules for not only few players but for the whole, which mean whoever will request to merge, it has to be validated by the admin because they done that in the past, we should see a rush of alliance asking to merge just to take on the fight and get "ranks" without fighting really.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:04   #16
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Re: SiNND

erm, am I missing something? shouldn't those players have to be 3days without alliances? since technically they are leaving one alliance and joining another one, right? or did they manage to go 3days without ally def and not get all massacred? o.O
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:07   #17
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Re: SiNND

Alch, a few remarks:

- It is permitted in the rules
- It is not permitted in the last 4 weeks

A quick calculation gives all alliance the chance to do this too for 3 more days :P

Lets have a merger party and make PA even more ridiculous

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
erm, am I missing something? shouldn't those players have to be 3days without alliances? since technically they are leaving one alliance and joining another one, right? or did they manage to go 3days without ally def and not get all massacred? o.O
The admins will merge alliances on request, as long as both alliances memberbase doesnt exceed 100. So no 3 days of fear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
Lol well ND were down what, 17 members?
That many huh? borders on unacceptable, but im sure ND had 17 worthless members anyways ^^
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:15   #18
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Re: SiNND

[22:07] <Kal> any request for merging will be dealt with in the manner dictated on the alliances page of the manual
[22:07] <Kal> if people object to the rule sin the manual there is a thread on merging on the suggestions forum
[22:08] <Kal> but we cannot change the rules just becuase we don;t like the affect it might have in a particular case

the discussion in question can be found here - http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=184992

Last round the period in which merging couldn't happen was only 2 weeksm now it is 4 weeks which is nearly half of the round - this should give plenty of time for people to iinflict any revenge on the alliance in question that they may want to.

As to the number of people who lost a rank it was 7-8 alliances not 10-11, and of course remember that a lot of other alliances gained a rank as well. Judging from ND's perfomrance over the round - they have had a lot of incoming so I personally believe this merge was about attempting to survive for the rest of the round rather than an attempt to pull of a miraculous finish to it.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:21   #19
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
As to the number of people who lost a rank it was 7-8 alliances not 10-11, and of course remember that a lot of other alliances gained a rank as well. Judging from ND's perfomrance over the round - they have had a lot of incoming so I personally believe this merge was about attempting to survive for the rest of the round rather than an attempt to pull of a miraculous finish to it.
what a load of crap Kal. It affects every alliance in the top10, it affects every PA player. Another marvellous screwup on your (Pateam) watch I guess
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:35   #20
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
As to the number of people who lost a rank it was 7-8 alliances not 10-11, and of course remember that a lot of other alliances gained a rank as well. Judging from ND's perfomrance over the round - they have had a lot of incoming so I personally believe this merge was about attempting to survive for the rest of the round rather than an attempt to pull of a miraculous finish to it.
Thats all well and good until you realise that those 7-8 alliances were the top 3-10 alliances, most of whom had (not that they still don't) a shot at the top spot. If that's not a significant impact that should be considered for a lot longer than it seems to have been before being aproved then what is? For instance if two of the smaller elite alliances merged e.g. ToT, Angels, or Exil, then that would only disrupt 7-8 alliance rankings too, but the community would be in uproar as it would no doubt create the number 1 alliance. But at what point would you dissallow a merger... if it made the number 1 alliance, number 2, number 3 (obviously not)? As for the ND had loads of incoming arguments... although i can't find their graphs available anywhere as they no longer exist, I'm quite certain it was no different to any other alliance, 1up, ND, HR, Angels, LCH, Exiliton, Wolfpack, NoS, have all had periods of high incomings directed at them and i'm pretty certain ND didn't have more than alot of them especially looking at the recent graphs for Wolfpack, LCH and Exilition which have been juggling up and down like mad recently. I think it's a poor decision to have taken so suddenly, even if it's not directly against the rules, you (the PA team that is) should have realised this would have a sizeable impact, and at least consulted the community first. Just cause something isn't against the rules doesn't mean it shouldn't be reconsidered when you realise something may not be quite right, e.g. you did it with the scoring system when you realised the weighting of XP is fundamentily too heavy, so you should do it now when merging two alliances creates one that disrupts the rankings of so many top 10 alliances surely?
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:54   #21
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
[22:07]

As to the number of people who lost a rank it was 7-8 alliances not 10-11, and of course remember that a lot of other alliances gained a rank as well.
Surely one alliance going from rank 18 to 17 has the same impact as another alliance going from 3 to 4. YES, i clearly see it.

But i must admit all complaints are void as it's in the rules, although i cannot see why
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:08   #22
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Envious
Surely one alliance going from rank 18 to 17 has the same impact as another alliance going from 3 to 4. YES, i clearly see it.
well it is the same really yes tho thoose that it affects. For example this merge annoys some of the top 10 alliances, other merges have really annoyed some of the lower ranked alliances. Why should the rules changes just becuase the alliance rank changes. Do people really need alliance ranks to justify how good their alliances are? Lets say SiNND won the round somehow, yes they win, big deal they don't get a prize, but surely its the communities evaluation of the win that is important?
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:13   #23
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
well it is the same really yes tho thoose that it affects.
We''ll agree to disagree here
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:37   #24
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Do people really need alliance ranks to justify how good their alliances are?
Coming from a PA team member that line is a joke!
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:53   #25
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
well it is the same really yes tho thoose that it affects. For example this merge annoys some of the top 10 alliances, other merges have really annoyed some of the lower ranked alliances. Why should the rules changes just becuase the alliance rank changes. Do people really need alliance ranks to justify how good their alliances are? Lets say SiNND won the round somehow, yes they win, big deal they don't get a prize, but surely its the communities evaluation of the win that is important?
Because the top 10-15 alliances make up most of the paying planets in pa so it affects them and their perception of the planteraion team as a whole? And you seem to brush off alliance rankings as though they're meaningless, when, they're actually the most important rankings in the entire game. Alliances fighting, blocking, deciding who their targets will be, are almost soley based upon fighting for a higher a higher ranking, so to right off the opinions of the majority of the paying players, who's alliances choose their targets to try and climb the rankings on a daily basis is a bit naive in my opinion. I don't think you should be trying to nullify the point of alliance rankings when we're talking about merging alliances and the effect it has on the top 10-15 alliances (who are pretty much the only ones really playing for high rankings, and contain the large majority of paying planets). I just think your being a bit inconsiderate about this point considering the rankings is what alliances play for, so they have a right to be annoyed at their work being undone by a merger.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:58   #26
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeKiller
Because the top 10-15 alliances make up most of the paying planets in pa so it affects them and their perception of the planteraion team as a whole? And you seem to brush off alliance rankings as though they're meaningless, when, they're actually the most important rankings in the entire game. Alliances fighting, blocking, deciding who their targets will be, are almost soley based upon fighting for a higher a higher ranking, so to right off the opinions of the majority of the paying players, who's alliances choose their targets to try and climb the rankings on a daily basis is a bit naive in my opinion. I don't think you should be trying to nullify the point of alliance rankings when we're talking about merging alliances and the effect it has on the top 10-15 alliances (who are pretty much the only ones really playing for high rankings, and contain the large majority of paying planets). I just think your being a bit inconsiderate about this point considering the rankings is what alliances play for, so they have a right to be annoyed at their work being undone by a merger.

Whose work has been undone exactly?

This hasn't been a merge for ranking.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:16   #27
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Re: SiNND

1 word .... Pathetic.

The only reason 2 alliances would merge this late (2 low quality alliances) is to have a higher rank (which is easy with 100 members). Too bad you'll be remembered as alliances that played a very bad round, rather then achieving to finish #3 ...
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:21   #28
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
1 word .... Pathetic.

The only reason 2 alliances would merge this late (2 low quality alliances) is to have a higher rank (which is easy with 100 members). Too bad you'll be remembered as alliances that played a very bad round, rather then achieving to finish #3 ...

your post couldn't have been more "EXACTLY AS EXPECTED" lol, your a classy guy....I bought an extra box of tissues just for you Kj... so keep the waterworks coming
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:24   #29
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
1 word .... Pathetic.
(2 low quality alliances)
better than the pos you're in...
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:26   #30
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedlind
better than the pos you're in...
lol, unlike Sin and ND, we achieved where we are on our own, with a small memberbase. But this thread isn't about us, it's about how to influence the alliance rankings and thereby screwing over alliances that actually worked for their ranks instead of mass merging (which imo every alliance can, yes even the Borg alliance ...)
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:29   #31
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Re: SiNND

Kjeli, all you ever do is complain, when your alliance does what it has to do, you complain at people for doing exactly what you are doing now. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. So shut up.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:30   #32
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Re: SiNND

In my humble opinion top10 alliancces should not be allowed to merge, nor two (three? what's next?) alliances who would become top10 after the merger.

The alliances such a combo "overtakes" have played the last 900+ ticks for their rank. If they loose a rank due two alliances merging, and not by an alliance who just outplayed them, it's quite bitter for those alliances.

In this case it were an #11 and #17 ranked alliance I believe, combining this in an #3 alliance is just immoral imho.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:35   #33
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Martok
In my humble opinion top10 alliancces should not be allowed to merge, nor two (three? what's next?) alliances who would become top10 after the merger.

The alliances such a combo "overtakes" have played the last 900+ ticks for their rank. If they loose a rank due two alliances merging, and not by an alliance who just outplayed them, it's quite bitter for those alliances.

In this case it were an #10 and #17 ranked alliance I believe, combining this in an #3 alliance is just immoral imho.
ND was 11th when the merger occured.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:31   #34
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Re: SiNND

what happened to all the flowers and pretty people ?
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:41   #35
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Re: SiNND

Firstly there was saving all ur res for the last few days to gain ranks...

What now, wait til the end to merge into the #1 position?

Next round i'll be looking out for the 2 alliances with 50-ish members waiting to merge with 4 weeks to go
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:34   #36
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Re: SiNND

If I was ND or Sin, the merge makes perfect sense. As another top 10 alliance member I think their merge causes the top 10 alliance rankings to be all smoke and mirrors. To the PAteam, the merge is within the rules so they have no choice but to merge the two even though it is to the detriment of the general dynamics of the game. All in all i say
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:34   #37
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Re: SiNND

ok seriously STFU or get out.
PA is a game, merging is part of the game, so go find someone who gives a damn about your little jelousy problem.
Who gives a flying duck.

Jeez so many people who got nothing better to do than complain about stuff that doesnt matter. Go get a lil alliance to merge if you want.

Gawdamn
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:38   #38
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzyxl
ok seriously STFU or get out.
PA is a game, merging is part of the game, so go find someone who gives a damn about your little jelousy problem.
Who gives a flying duck.

Jeez so many people who got nothing better to do than complain about stuff that doesnt matter. Go get a lil alliance to merge if you want.

Gawdamn
Well you are now the number 3 alliance and you have done nothing to deserve it. So I think complaints should be heard. Its not jealousy , its the fact that 2 mediocre alliances combined in order to try and be a super power and have stolen the number 3 spot.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:40   #39
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
Well you are now the number 3 alliance and you have done nothing to deserve it. So I think complaints should be heard. Its not jealousy , its the fact that 2 mediocre alliances combined in order to try and be a super power and have stolen the number 3 spot.

actually we did something to deserve it, we made a tactical decision, well within the games rules, to improve our situation....

it's what good commanders do, they evaluate, learn from what they are presented with, improvise... adapt...overcome
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:42   #40
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
actually we did something to deserve it, we made a tactical decision, well within the games rules, to improve our situation....

it's what good commanders do, they evaluate, learn from what they are presented with, and improvise

I agree it was a good tactical decision. But making 1 good tactical decision all round doesnt mean you deserve the #3 spot
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:03   #41
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
I agree it was a good tactical decision. But making 1 good tactical decision all round doesnt mean you deserve the #3 spot
good?
lol, no way, they packed together so they thought it was bad before? heh they jus made it worse for themselves
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:41   #42
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
Well you are now the number 3 alliance and you have done nothing to deserve it. .
ofc we deserve it. We got the score fairly didnt we? just as 2 seperte parts.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:43   #43
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
ofc we deserve it. We got the score fairly didnt we? just as 2 seperte parts.

you cant honestly believe that?
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:46   #44
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
you cant honestly believe that?

think about it for a minute...we did attack the same basic targets all round......we have faded incoming from the same enemies......
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:53   #45
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
you cant honestly believe that?
Argue against it? I am finding it hard to disbelieve... give me a reason to?
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:35   #46
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Re: SiNND

end of the day....we basically took 2 alliances, who were allied by the way, and combined the active players...it's not a Sin..(excuse the pun) we simply decided it the best way to allow our members to enjoy the round and stay active, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it as it's completely within the rules... we're not stalking teenagers, we're not using VNC to log in 40 planets to handle inbounds...we're not digging mass graves and executing your pets....we simply merged active players from two friendly alliances. It's not the first time it's happened, and it isn't the last, as long as the game rules allow it.

Go play your game, leave the whining out...it doesn't impress anyone

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzyxl
Who gives a flying duck.

Gawdamn

HEY!!!
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:38   #47
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Re: SiNND

I would like to highlight that Angels did in fact last round switch a member in the last tick to gain over 10 million points and nudge SiN out of the top 10.
The tables have turned KJ, and I'm not one to look favourably on hypocrites.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:47   #48
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbie
I would like to highlight that Angels did in fact last round switch a member in the last tick to gain over 10 million points and nudge SiN out of the top 10.
The tables have turned KJ, and I'm not one to look favourably on hypocrites.
I guess It's payback time then
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:54   #49
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Re: SiNND

ND's avg score without inactives 1.7 mil
SiN's avg score without inactives 1.6 mil

So yeah we earned where we are individually and collectively.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:51   #50
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Re: SiNND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbie
I would like to highlight that Angels did in fact last round switch a member in the last tick to gain over 10 million points and nudge SiN out of the top 10.
and they made it without the respective member being allianceless for 3 days? i don't remember THAT.
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