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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 09:59   #1
Kargool
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Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

Defending vs zik is always hard. It's 0300 in the morning (or later) and you see that dreaded eta 9 zik incs. What can it be. Your hands is shaking, knowing that your alliances defships is in your hands and you dont want to mess up.

Here is what I do when Zik attack:

1: Scans. Get a fleetscan of attacker if possible. Check for matching numbers on the incs. If not, start adding Xan ships of similar type to what the zik is sending.
If no fleetscan is avaliable, get two unitscans. One of the attacker, and one on the dude getting attacked. Put both fleets up in a battlecalc and start calcing combinations wich the zik gains the most of.

2: Various attackmodes for Zik: One of the classic combo's Ziks attack with is FR/CR/BS. Others may be sneak attacks with stolen co/fi fleets. Its all in the calc dude. If you compare both fleets you'll easely match the combos in the attackers fleet. Ive seen a couple of FR/CO attacks also but most of them have burned to the ground.

3: What to send against a zik attack: Against FR/CR/BS u earn alot from defending with CR/BS on it. Dragons/Tarantula and Scarabs. is my favourite defence combo. Add some Vipers or Vsharrak's to take out the zik FR and you might just get it covered. If ur alliance is bad against BS get your cath people to build Tarantulas and Scarabs, both highly efficent against both Zik and Ter ships But always remember to check your calc if the attacker steals more than he loses. I always also studies the roid gain quite carefully, and have come to a conclusion that if the attacker only gets 10% roids or less its most likely good chance for him to pull. Fake defence against a zik is not very adviseable because of the high threatrange the zik ships has. They basically hit all the types when attacking with FR/CR/BS and u need real hit ships. Of course if someone is willing to be armor padding for the ships that hit the attackers ships get him to do it.

Size does matter. Unfortunally u have to use alot of ships to defend against a zik bs/cr/fr attack, so if you are certain you wont get it covered, make sure the planet getting attacked get told to run his fleet. This should also apply to a target with very few roids.

Remember: Zik's are bad mkay, they steal alot of ships if you dont get the proper coverage, and even sometimes if they stand to loose half their fleet they might want to because the ships they steal is much better for them.
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 10:52   #2
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

99% of the zik incs ive recieved or seen this round has been either FR or BS.

Unfortunately both of these fleets are pretty easy to defend against.

For me im fairly happy when i get zik incs, i am much much more scared of a big cath CO or CR or a nasty Terran BS fleet, me being zik i have big problems defending adequately against terran BS fleet.

Since zik shoots last you can get pretty much any ships that targets the incoming, and cause enough damage the attacker pulls every single time.
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 12:26   #3
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

I dont know why people are scared of cath co. Have they not heard of spiders/arrows/scorps?
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 13:47   #4
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

Yeah, myself have never seen cath co as a difficult thing to cover. except if they combo with Xan fi. Then they are abit difficult.
Ziks who doesnt attack with cr/bs/fr should really rethink their strategy.
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 14:39   #5
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

cath co? Lancers....
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 16:14   #6
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

Well im zik, and when i get incs from a Cath with shitloads of Vipers i do not get particulary happy.

The eta is low, the classes are few and he shoots on my ships before i can touch his.
it ends up me losing roids if im not lucky enough to be online that exact tick.
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 17:21   #7
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

Yeah and as a zik i find it pretty hard to steal anything since everybody sends their whole fleet away if i get through. That's why i can only imagine of fr+spider fleet or guardian + pirate + pillager etc...
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 17:28   #8
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
1: Scans. Get a fleetscan of attacker if possible. Check for matching numbers on the incs. If not, start adding Xan ships of similar type to what the zik is sending.
If no fleetscan is avaliable, get two unitscans. One of the attacker, and one on the dude getting attacked. Put both fleets up in a battlecalc and start calcing combinations wich the zik gains the most of.
This sounds like you have way too much time on your hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
I dont know why people are scared of cath co. Have they not heard of spiders/arrows/scorps?
Have they not heard of unavailability/attacking spiders/eta?
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 17:43   #9
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by at0mic.c0w
This sounds like you have way too much time on your hands.

Nah, just active scanners
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 17:52   #10
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by at0mic.c0w
This sounds like you have way too much time on your hands.
I used to do as Kargool suggests when BCing for 1up. In my experience there is always plenty of time to do BC work if I calmly work forwards in simple steps. I'd usually spend the first minute or so at tick clearing old calls, calcs etc. I'd then wait for calls to come in, noticing the private channel once every now and then with the relevant defense required. Ticks were pretty slow last round, so I'd generally let people wait until :10 before starting to use fleets. At this point, I'd set up calcs for Zik incoming (other incoming was generally straight-forward enough that I didn't need one). In a tick with a decent amount of incoming (10-15 reported calls?) and decent activity, this will keep me busy. If alliance activity is bad, I'd get bored

The best way to deal with multi-class incoming is to identify which class stands to lose most and put up an efficient punch against that. Generally it's impossible to stop roidloss with any sane or efficient use of defense fleets, but if you find out where you can do most damage, you can make the roids expensive enough to make a landing stupid.
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Unread 29 Aug 2005, 23:56   #11
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

With most incomings, back when I DCed (I assume that Jester meant DCing too), my first thought was: what class is this incoming? Next step was to get units (fleet scans if I was lucky), and to get a feel for the number. I was actually pretty good at spotting fakes, but a decent faker should be impossible to spot.

By mid round, as a DC, you should have an automatic reaction to each type of incoming: for example, in Round 13, Cath CO incoming = Phoenixes/mass Vsh, and so on. In-gal alliance members? Get them to send Lancers.


Soveh has an interesting tactic of using fakes on the early incomings, and then covering the later ones with the proper ships. Never had much chance to use it myself though.
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 12:37   #12
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

I got first hand experience of a NASTY zik cr\bs fleet yesterday, and ill tell you it is a bitch to cover since rogues\marauder\pirates and buccs steal so extremely many def ships its really hard to make atatcker pay enough.
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Unread 2 Sep 2005, 12:38   #13
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Re: Defence vs Zik: Hard but possible.

Hello all,

Missed this the thread, just spotted it now. Yes i know there is only 5+ threads in strat. Anyway attacking as a ZIK i use these tactics.

I pick a target that my bs fleet will get thru on and take max cap. I then see if my maurader/buc heavy cr fleet will get through on it. If it steals more value than the xp gained on roid run I send that at the target. I have some stolen hornets so usually take 10-15% roids too.

Some times i throw in some fr into the cr fleet just to up the stealing value, or to take some extra roids that hornet doesn't pick up

I still have my bs fleet, I'll usualy send that against a target with bad anti bs but good value for xp.

It is important to note that when sending extra fr with the cr fleet i only ever send using this formula

x = fr ships y = cr shiips z =bs ships

where x+y <= z

Useful when both targets are in same gal. oh no which one has all th bs in it or has he split up. usually the def for bs goes to the wrong fleet hahah i steal your 500 ghosts/black widow/ wyverns

I also mix up the different fleets but basically every night i hit a target for value and a target for xp.

Just my 2c

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