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Unread 24 Jul 2014, 12:19   #1
Cain
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Changes to governments

As suggested by Kaiba in another thread something has to change about the current government stats. Mostly 2 of them get picked while the others are barely of any use and do not supplement a players style. The goverments also mainly seem to influence the same stats which can be set with population.

Note: Anarchy could still be in place however the time you will remain in anarchy should be doubled (144 ticks).

I want to suggest the following new governments to replace all the old.

The Researcher
  • 30% faster research
  • 10 000 additional research points (to divide as bonus)

The Constructor
  • 25% faster constructions
  • 10 000 additional construction points (to divide as bonus)

The Attacker
  • 10% cheaper ships.
  • 5% salvage bonus in attack.
  • 25% extra xp & alliance points gained when attacking.

The Defender
  • 10% cheaper ships.
  • 10% salvage bonus in defence.
  • 25% extra xp & alliance points gained when defending.

The Scanner
  • 50% cheaper scans.
  • 25% extra xp & alliance points gained when doing a successful scan.
  • Addition of 10 amps the moment the gov gets selected

The Spy (cov op)
  • 10% higher stealth.
  • 10% extra xp & alliance points gained when doing a successful cov op.
  • 50% cheaper cost for sending agents on a mission.
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Last edited by Cain; 24 Jul 2014 at 12:45.
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Unread 24 Jul 2014, 12:35   #2
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Re: Changes to governments

Would Ananarchy still be a part of this? wouldn't someone just pick "the scanner" for the 10 free amps at the start and then switch out to the researcher for research then the attack for the rest of round?
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Unread 24 Jul 2014, 12:39   #3
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Re: Changes to governments

nice idea
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Unread 24 Jul 2014, 12:43   #4
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Re: Changes to governments

I would keep the same gov names. Also modifications should be related with the government.

Imo the main problem atm is that Corporatism mining bonus is too good.

That is an idea that would make Corp into the opposite of Nationalism:

Mining output is 16% higher.
Research is 20% slower.
Construction is 10% faster.
Production time is 10% faster.
Stealth is 10% higher.
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Unread 24 Jul 2014, 12:45   #5
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Re: Changes to governments

Anarchy still in place, but the time is doubled. I would even say its better to just remove anarchy in full.

The other problem with the current govs are that the boosts you get there should be population related. These should be the same for every planet.
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Unread 24 Jul 2014, 12:53   #6
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Re: Changes to governments

I concur that Anarchy should be removed completely, as everyone more or less ends up with the same Government in the end. At least before there was some diversity!
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Unread 24 Jul 2014, 15:04   #7
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Re: Changes to governments

I'm pro this - sounds alright..ye
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Unread 24 Jul 2014, 20:18   #8
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Re: Changes to governments

It's a nice twist/change.
I dont agree on increasing the anarchy duration though. If you're going to make the different governments so much different from one another, its only fair for players/alliances to switch between them more often/quickly to adjust their strategy.

Say alliance X is being blocked against, you might want to all switch to "the defender". If you're waiting 6 days for that to happen, thats pretty useless.
So overall, good suggestion but imho anarchy needs some love.
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 00:33   #9
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Re: Changes to governments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitros View Post
So overall, good suggestion but imho anarchy needs some love.
Agreed. These changes endorse an active rotation in governments, especially when ganged upon.

Anarchy 0-12 ticks max so an ally can adjust when naptarion takes over
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 07:21   #10
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Re: Changes to governments

The bonuses are too big for anarchy to be fast, everyone would just cycle through them to get their 10k con points, 10k res points and 10 amps if it was quick and easy to change.
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 07:45   #11
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Re: Changes to governments

I love the idea. Population should be tied into governments as well.


Maybe something like this:

The Researcher(Democracy)
30% faster research
10 000 additional research points (to divide as bonus)
Max Mining(20) -5
Max Research(60) +10
Max Construction(35) +0
Max Shiprights(65) +5
Max Alert(50) +0

The Constructor(Socialism)
25% faster constructions
10 000 additional construction points (to divide as bonus)
Max Mining(30) +5
Max Research(40) -10
Max Constructions(45) +10
Max Shiprights(55) -5
Max Alert(45) -5

The Attacker(Communism)
10% cheaper ships.
5% salvage bonus in attack.
25% extra xp & alliance points gained when attacking.
Max Mining(25) +0
Max Research(45) -5
Max Constructions(40) +5
Max Shiprights(65) +5
Max Alertness(50) +0

The Defender(Totalitarianism)
10% cheaper ships.
10% salvage bonus in defence.
25% extra xp & alliance points gained when defending.
Max Mining(30) +5
Max Research(55)+5
Max Constructions(30) -5
Max Shiprights(50) -10
Max Alert(60) +10

The Scanner
50% cheaper scans.
25% extra xp & alliance points gained when doing a successful scan.
Addition of 10 amps the moment the gov gets selected
Max Mining(30)+5
Max Research(60) +10
Max Constructions(35) +0
Max Shiprights(40) -20
Max Alert(40) -10

The Spy (cov op)
10% higher stealth.
10% extra xp & alliance points gained when doing a successful cov op.
50% cheaper cost for sending agents on a mission.
Max Mining(20) -5
Max Research(60) +10
Max Constructions(35) +0
Max Shiprights(70) +10
Max Alertness(55) +5

Thoughts?
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 11:08   #12
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Re: Changes to governments

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
The bonuses are too big for anarchy to be fast, everyone would just cycle through them to get their 10k con points, 10k res points and 10 amps if it was quick and easy to change.
Not if you can only gain them once, or if you only get the points for the first government you pick.
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 11:12   #13
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Re: Changes to governments

By cycle through them I meant only once - everyone would go through the researcher, then the constructor, then scanner, and end up on either the attack or defender options if it is easy to change.
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 11:35   #14
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Re: Changes to governments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitros View Post
or if you only get the points for the first government you pick.
Yea excatly that.
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 13:08   #15
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Re: Changes to governments

Quote:
Originally Posted by twice in previous posts
5% salvage bonus in attack.
Not much use as things are at the moment. 5% of zero is ..........
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 13:13   #16
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Re: Changes to governments

Probably means a 5% xp bonus? It is essentially the attacking equivalent of salvage.
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 13:20   #17
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Re: Changes to governments

Yes, that might work.
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 18:28   #18
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Re: Changes to governments

Cain i like your evoultion of the original idea. This looks pretty cool.

As this would actually be quite easy to code i think Appoco should look into it.

What i would say though is that unless you scrap Anarchy you need to increase Anarchy. Maybe have a revolt cap or something but atm there is no deterant to using Anarchy as a means to get the fat mining bonus from Corp. There is no strategy in gov choice in PA anymore and is another ascept of the game that has been changed and made bland.


I would like to see the Attacker/Defender 'govs' have deterimental effects on their flipside ie. Attacker gov gets -10% salvage debuff for the following reason:


As another step into the future i would love it if the Attacker/Defender 'govs' were a bonus applied by Alliances only with a 24 tick delay and a 48 hr cooldown. That way if your alliance was gonna gang someone you couldnt instantly apply the attacker bonus then swap to defender one after 1 night to profit from incs.

It would have to be a bonus that was applied strategically to make the best of a bad situation or to maximise a good one with the side effect being that if the tables turned quickly then you were atleast shafted for one night from a poor choice.
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Unread 25 Jul 2014, 21:14   #19
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Re: Changes to governments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post

I want to suggest the following new governments to replace all the old.
Why tinker with anarchy on behalf of corp, when corp is gone ??
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Unread 26 Jul 2014, 07:37   #20
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Re: Changes to governments

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
Not much use as things are at the moment. 5% of zero is ..........
Presumably percent points. 0% + 5 pp = 5%.
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Unread 27 Jul 2014, 11:40   #21
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Re: Changes to governments

Exactly, i want to introduce salvage for the attacking side as well just to increase the amount of lands. The reason for removing anarchy is not just to avoid people taking all govs for the bonus that come with it, but also that you use your brain before just picking something. You usually know how you are gonna play during the round already anyway. F.ex heroes will most likely be taking "Attacker" while players like me would take "Defender" just because i prefer to defend the alliance over attacking.

Doing these gov changes together with the alliance point system will require the population options to be re-thought as well. Population should be the main source of quickly adapting your planet. I will come up with a suggestion for it somewhere tomorrow.
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Unread 27 Jul 2014, 13:26   #22
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Re: Changes to governments

Salvage for attackers was removed deliberately. I don't remember the exact reason but I think it involved abuse.
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Unread 22 Sep 2014, 11:46   #23
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Re: Changes to governments

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
Salvage for attackers was removed deliberately. I don't remember the exact reason but I think it involved abuse.
Yes, salvage on the def side is not abused at all ;p
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Unread 22 Sep 2014, 19:08   #24
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Re: Changes to governments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post

I would like to see the Attacker/Defender 'govs' have deterimental effects on their flipside ie. Attacker gov gets -10% salvage debuff for the following reason:


As another step into the future i would love it if the Attacker/Defender 'govs' were a bonus applied by Alliances only with a 24 tick delay and a 48 hr cooldown. That way if your alliance was gonna gang someone you couldnt instantly apply the attacker bonus then swap to defender one after 1 night to profit from incs.

It would have to be a bonus that was applied strategically to make the best of a bad situation or to maximise a good one with the side effect being that if the tables turned quickly then you were atleast shafted for one night from a poor choice.
I like this, i've long thought the idea of "Attack Mode"/"Defence Mode" type thing for alliances would be an interesting idea and as you say also having a penalty for being in said mode at the wrong times, nerfs to mining/prod/salvage etc.
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Unread 22 Sep 2014, 19:13   #25
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Re: Changes to governments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I love the idea. Population should be tied into governments as well.


Maybe something like this:

The Researcher(Democracy)
30% faster research
10 000 additional research points (to divide as bonus)
Max Mining(20) -5
Max Research(60) +10
Max Construction(35) +0
Max Shiprights(65) +5
Max Alert(50) +0

The Constructor(Socialism)
25% faster constructions
10 000 additional construction points (to divide as bonus)
Max Mining(30) +5
Max Research(40) -10
Max Constructions(45) +10
Max Shiprights(55) -5
Max Alert(45) -5

The Attacker(Communism)
10% cheaper ships.
5% salvage bonus in attack.
25% extra xp & alliance points gained when attacking.
Max Mining(25) +0
Max Research(45) -5
Max Constructions(40) +5
Max Shiprights(65) +5
Max Alertness(50) +0

The Defender(Totalitarianism)
10% cheaper ships.
10% salvage bonus in defence.
25% extra xp & alliance points gained when defending.
Max Mining(30) +5
Max Research(55)+5
Max Constructions(30) -5
Max Shiprights(50) -10
Max Alert(60) +10

The Scanner
50% cheaper scans.
25% extra xp & alliance points gained when doing a successful scan.
Addition of 10 amps the moment the gov gets selected
Max Mining(30)+5
Max Research(60) +10
Max Constructions(35) +0
Max Shiprights(40) -20
Max Alert(40) -10

The Spy (cov op)
10% higher stealth.
10% extra xp & alliance points gained when doing a successful cov op.
50% cheaper cost for sending agents on a mission.
Max Mining(20) -5
Max Research(60) +10
Max Constructions(35) +0
Max Shiprights(70) +10
Max Alertness(55) +5

Thoughts?
Looks good.

Would make the mining bonus +5 instead of negative, and take research out, put it on construction, take off shipwrights.
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Unread 22 Sep 2014, 19:40   #26
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Re: Changes to governments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Population should be the main source of quickly adapting your planet.

Quoting this for relevance. Also, still thinking about these suggestions. I'll post up something moderately useful by Thursday or so.
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Unread 23 Sep 2014, 12:40   #27
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Re: Changes to governments

Because of negative feedback and easy abuse the 1 time bonus for govs have been removed. Also salvage for the attacking side won't return cause of 'abuse' in the past.

I merged some govs and changed the advantages and disadvantages for all of them. Anarchy went from 72 to 48 ticks with smaller penalties to promote swapping governments according to your playstyle and political situation your alliance / galaxy might be in. Planning ahead and actively changing govs might become very beneficial when timed and used right.

All planets start with the default government in place when signing up, so the quest will need to get changed into rewarding when you go anarchy for the first time.

the new suggested govs can be found here.
The more suggestions about balancing the percentages the better.

PR out
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Unread 23 Sep 2014, 13:01   #28
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Re: Changes to governments

Unless mill centers are removed entirely (which I expect they might be), 35% xp bonus is way too much. Peacelover isn't viable currently as the bonuses almost cancel out eachother. +25% stealth would have a major impact on covert ops and needs to be tested a lot.

With the current suggestions, you'll have everyone slow play on development or peacelover, stacking resources until they switch to warmachine. You also open up for resource farm planets being peacelovers, then giving the res to warmachine planets, making this tactic even better than it already is.

If anything, we need changes that makes it more viable to actually play at the start. Nearly every top10 planet this round stayed small the first 1-3 weeks, and easily caught up.
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Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..
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Unread 23 Sep 2014, 13:37   #29
Cain
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Re: Changes to governments

Development: Removed the alert bonus

Peacelover: Lowered the alert bonus from 15% -> 7.5%

Cov-ops: Lowered the stealth bonus from 25% -> 12.5%

As for the resource farms, you can already do so right now by making those go corp while you are tot or demo yourself. If you want to get rid of players staying small the first 1-3 week then you need to remove the galaxy fund or drastically lower it.
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