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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 01:57   #1
Kargool
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A request for PA team.

I would like that alliance size/limits was announced alot earlier than before.

Alliances needs to build up a memberbase and plan for the round in good time.
(some might not, but atleast the ones I know do)

We need to know what limits the alliances will work under early so we can plan accordingly.

The importantcy of information on subjects like this have been neglected before, but I hope that others jump in and supports this request and that the PA-Team will see that it is a need to know on this extremly important matter for the alliances.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 02:01   #2
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Re: A request for PA team.

I agree, it'll help me figure out how badly I need to get my boys xp whoring next rd.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 02:15   #3
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Re: A request for PA team.

Plan for what, kargool? You quit. Again. Or did you forget? Again?

Because kargool has requested that I stay on topic....

When a decision has been made regarding alliance sizes, it will be posted on the forum. There are several changes planned for next round and announcements will be made as soon as they are final.

Last edited by Fiery; 27 Nov 2006 at 03:01.
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Unread 30 Nov 2006, 23:45   #4
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
With the current size of the universe, galaxies now are 1,3% of the universe, that is way way to much. The galaxy size havent changed in the last couple of rounds and i think its about time to look the truth in the face and downscale the galaxy size.

With an 80 member limit and aprox 2000 planets (the actual number is probably more like 1800) an alliance can now look at an influence over 5% of the universe.

Also, waging war has begun to be grosly ineffective in the current galaxysized universe, explicit targetpicking of planets is more or less hugely difficult due to this. (some big alliances manage to do this, but not many) The alliancesize needs a downscale based on that.

A quick statistics look at Alliance Members: 1,170 <-- That is the current number of members in an alliance whatever the alliance is etc. With all due respect to the non allied planets, i know there is a few out there being active. But 1170 is the number you should look at more or less if u want to see how many active players there are out there.

1170 is also probably to big, because in that number there is alot of inactive players that doesnt play anymore. But then you can start to imagine how big 80 members in one alliance is. Almost 10% of the active coremass of PA can be in -one- alliance.


Reduce galaxy size by maybe as far as 10, reduce alliance size by around 30, and we will get a more balanced universe.

The numbers are out there staring you straight in the face people.
sry for bringing this up kargool, this is not an attack or flame or anythign plz plz plz dont read the following and get the belief my intention is to flame / attack

what you posted in that quote runs contradictary to your thread here.

When i read your quote above i believe your intention is to balance gals against alliances, yet when i read your thread here i believe your intention is to give organised alliances an advantage over pretty much random galaxies.


PLZ plz plz plz dont take that as a flame or insult, i point it out merely to suggest that as a suggestions poster ud hope that all your suggestions would be given some degree of serious thought, but one suggestion would be completly undermind by the other, as well prepared alliances will allways find a way to benefit from whatever limitations are imposed upon them, or if not benefit, do better tahn other players
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Unread 1 Dec 2006, 00:00   #5
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart
sry for bringing this up kargool, this is not an attack or flame or anythign plz plz plz dont read the following and get the belief my intention is to flame / attack

what you posted in that quote runs contradictary to your thread here.

When i read your quote above i believe your intention is to balance gals against alliances, yet when i read your thread here i believe your intention is to give organised alliances an advantage over pretty much random galaxies.


PLZ plz plz plz dont take that as a flame or insult, i point it out merely to suggest that as a suggestions poster ud hope that all your suggestions would be given some degree of serious thought, but one suggestion would be completly undermind by the other, as well prepared alliances will allways find a way to benefit from whatever limitations are imposed upon them, or if not benefit, do better tahn other players

Erm, I dont agree. First of all I dont see how you can mean that knowing the alliance size the alliances can play under contradicts anything I said in that post.

While it is nessecary to both reduce galaxy size and alliance size, this request is a simple matter about alliances being able to know how many they can accept earlier. So that they wont have to turn away members they have said yes to before because they are full.

And galaxy will always be a random factor, even for an alliance. Last round Omen (where I was a part of the hc team that round) had 7 members in one galaxy due to exiling etc. That was rather rough for us whenever that galaxy had incs etc.
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Unread 1 Dec 2006, 00:19   #6
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Re: A request for PA team.

idd kargool, what i mean to highlight is that if I know my alliance is going to have 80 members next round i develop and encourage certain strategies for the forthcoming round

if i know its only going to have 40 memebrs i develop and encourage a completely different set of strategies for the forthcoming round

point is, the more info an alliance has before a round the more chance they have of overpowering any galaxy that is shuffled together at tick 72, spends the next 100 ticks getting to know each other, and spends the rest of the round trying to balance their inner gal activity against the pre round start laid plans of their alliance.

I guess the question i was implying is :- given that any gal, buddy pack or not. will only start to become an effective force after at the earliest tick 200, how can you balance the influence figures given in the quoted post against the info supplied to extremly efficient alliances pre round as suggested in this thread?

I emphasized that i do not mean my original post here as a flame or insult because I truly believe you have bought up valid points with both your posts on each thread, but i feel they run contradictary to each others sucess, and they perhaps highlight the current problem of trying to restore the balance of each players galaxy against the dominant alliances in the game
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Unread 1 Dec 2006, 02:07   #7
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiery
Plan for what, kargool? You quit. Again. Or did you forget? Again?
He came back, again

So I stay on topic aswell: Agree with Kargool
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Unread 1 Dec 2006, 02:21   #8
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart

I guess the question i was implying is :- given that any gal, buddy pack or not. will only start to become an effective force after at the earliest tick 200, how can you balance the influence figures given in the quoted post against the info supplied to extremly efficient alliances pre round as suggested in this thread?

I emphasized that i do not mean my original post here as a flame or insult because I truly believe you have bought up valid points with both your posts on each thread, but i feel they run contradictary to each others sucess, and they perhaps highlight the current problem of trying to restore the balance of each players galaxy against the dominant alliances in the game
Thanks for feedback. Let me try to comment abit on what you are saying.

The difference of power is as I see it in favor of the galaxy as the current situation is (Regardless of politics). Galaxies now have the possibility to build a very active gal by doing exiles because of the smallness of the universe. (The likelyness of you ending up where you want when you go on an exile spree increases).

Why? Well, thats simple, because of the number of galaxies in the game. As it is pr now, the universe gets created, the universe gets shuffled at tick 36 and the number of galaxies you get at the shuffle is the total number of galaxies the game will have. (The game will not create any more galaxies) Now with the galaxy disband button you are also capable of disbanding a galaxy the actual number of galaxies decreases, thus making exile even better.

And also with regards to size, if you notice the top galaxies now they could easily fit into the top 15 alliance scores atm, and if you think of them as a good alliance, think about the extra advantage they get by good ingal def.
Ingal def is adament in my reasoning and when there actually are specific ships built to promote ingal def, this is the extra favours you get as an member of an random galaxy

Again, im not saying this is wrong. The galaxies as is now is only having the advantage of an unfair balance in the game. So the question we remain with, do we want to favor the game towards the galaxy, do we want to favor the game towards the alliance? I choose neither, but having a balanced universe gives the game the correct dynamics and as much "fairness" as the game can consist of.

While it comes to being able to "prepare" for a round for an alliance, thats a very important part of the game, but not really in regards to how big they are gonna be, but whom they choose to buddypack with etc. The importance of knowing how the alliancesize will affect an alliance is more in regards to personel and as to how many they will need to cut, or how many they can additionally take.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 03:10   #9
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Re: A request for PA team.

I refuse to believe that the limit of 80 or 60 members makes any difference to your 'planning'.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 03:27   #10
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
I refuse to believe that the limit of 80 or 60 members makes any difference to your 'planning'.
But 40 or 50 might.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 04:17   #11
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiery
Plan for what, kargool? You quit. Again. Or did you forget? Again?
I was thinking the same!

Fiery & her shoes > Me and mine
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 09:29   #12
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Re: A request for PA team.

He did - I made him come back.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 10:43   #13
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
But 40 or 50 might.
as might no limit, or no alliances. who knows what will happen.....

But we will try to inform people well before the round starts.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 16:24   #14
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
as might no limit, or no alliances. who knows what will happen.....

But we will try to inform people well before the round starts.
You and the rest of PA team know what will happen.
Surely you have plans up and ready by now, otherwise do us all a favour and quit alltogether so that some competent people can take over the position of game development and administration.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 16:27   #15
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
You and the rest of PA team know what will happen.
Surely you have plans up and ready by now, otherwise do us all a favour and quit alltogether so that some competent people can take over the position of game development and administration.
For all of the changes we are considering with regards to alliances the code changes are pretty trivial, and in terms of alliance size no code change is really needed at all. If the alliance system stays as it is, I'd expect the alliance size limit to be 50 or 60.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 16:30   #16
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
For all of the changes we are considering with regards to alliances the code changes are pretty trivial, and in terms of alliance size no code change is really needed at all. If the alliance system stays as it is, I'd expect the alliance size limit to be 50 or 60.
Thanks for confirming that PA Team has no plans, see the rest of what I wrote. Please go and quit or let yourself be replaced by more competent people.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 16:34   #17
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Thanks for confirming that PA Team has no plans, see the rest of what I wrote. Please go and quit or let yourself be replaced by more competent people.
Believe it or not, but deciding the details of alliances next round is not at the top of our todo list. We have numerous changes for next round already coded and tested, and there are some major changes currently being coded that are taking up most of the time at the moment. However we are concious that a decision on alliances probabaly needs to be made in the next week or two.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 16:48   #18
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Believe it or not, but deciding the details of alliances next round is not at the top of our todo list. We have numerous changes for next round already coded and tested, and there are some major changes currently being coded that are taking up most of the time at the moment. However we are concious that a decision on alliances probabaly needs to be made in the next week or two.
Of course, deciding whether or not to have an ingame alliance system is just as trivial and totally not impacting gameplay as deciding whether 60 or 80 or 1200 people should be allowed per alliance.

Since your coders seem to be busy with interesting new features, and you claimed changing the alliance limit wouldnt need any coding resources at all, why is it so hard for the non-coding people to make a decision?

I do agree with you that the alliance size is not a top-of-the-list issue (except for alliance leaders), but what about actually making decisions instead of talking in subjunctive ("as might no limit, or no alliances. who knows what will happen.....", "If the alliance system stays as it is", "a decision on alliances probably needs to be made...") when you are asked about the future of the game?
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 16:50   #19
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Re: A request for PA team.

Has it crossed your mind that we may be discussing the alliance system with the alliance representatives at the moment?
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 16:52   #20
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef!
Has it crossed your mind that we may be discussing the alliance system with the alliance representatives at the moment?
You mean just like it crossed my mind that you may not be discussing the alliance system with the alliance representatives at the moment?

Am I expressing myself in a totally misunderstandable way? PA team is constantly talking in a useless way when it comes to a discussion about future gameplay. Useless, because you guys leave room for way too much uncertanity. You either respond with a clear statement about what's up, or should not reply at all.

You should not want to try to inform us before the next round, you should be going to inform us. You should not be conscious that a decision probabily has to be made, you should be conscious that a decision has to be made.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 16:58   #21
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
I do agree with you that the alliance size is not a top-of-the-list issue (except for alliance leaders), but what about actually making decisions instead of talking in subjunctive ("as might no limit, or no alliances. who knows what will happen.....", "If the alliance system stays as it is", "a decision on alliances probably needs to be made...") when you are asked about the future of the game?
The probably was to the time frame, not to the decision. Clearly the decision does need to be made, but perhaps not in the next couple of weeks.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 20:13   #22
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Re: A request for PA team.

It has been a while since I agreed with Kargool but I think he is right. Alliance limits need to be communicated as early as possible.

80 planet limits HC wants to keep as many players as possible
60 or lower planet limits HC wants to keep as many core players as possible.

NAPs with other alliances and possible merger moves also need to be considered before the round. For most members knowing the alliance limit soon matters very little but I can see where HC needs to plan as far ahead as possible.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 17:53   #23
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Re: A request for PA team.

Yes good luck
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 18:04   #24
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Re: A request for PA team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiery
Plan for what, kargool? You quit. Again. Or did you forget? Again?
He pretends to quit every round so that nobody knows that his co-ords, when seen HCing for TGV he claims not to have a planet
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Unread 11 Dec 2006, 04:10   #25
notsure
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Join Date: May 2005
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Re: A request for PA team.

Actually Kargool didn't have a planet at the start of the round - and didn't start HC'ing for TGV til the last week or two --- when I needed to do other things....

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