User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 01:28   #201
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

But once again, where do the rules state that scanning for someone in another alliance (even if it is 100% scans) is illegal? Remy couldn't have applied such a rule, because it does not exist.
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 01:56   #202
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

The support rule could be (and probably has been) applied in this case, like it can be applied to almost any repeated ingame action.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 02:07   #203
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
The support rule could be (and probably has been) applied in this case, like it can be applied to almost any repeated ingame action.
Exactly. So MH's judgement is decisive in the end, which does make Remy responsible, and not just someone who followed and executed a rule. The rule is simply too broad for it to be applied like that, it demands interpretation from MH for it to be applied.

In this particular case, the decision was that "scanning for everyone is an unfair benefit" - which is not contained in the rule itself, it only fits in the frame that the rule sets. But it's basically made up on the spot (by Remy, and whoever else was involved).
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.

Last edited by Talin; 16 Jul 2007 at 02:13.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 04:05   #204
Travler
Bona Fide Jesus Freak
 
Travler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the Word of the Lord
Posts: 765
Travler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to all
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
I think the idea of giving free scans to other people is great. On the other hand, this service should be directed towards those that don't have easy access to scans. One would think decent alliances already have scanners intag. I don't think the occasional jgp for a member of an alliance is cause for closure. 90% of the jgps made, on the other hand, is something entirely different.
If anything, this shows us that the alliance member limits and the support planet rule should be revised for the next round. I really don't see much point in demonizing Remy for applying the rules.
Scanners are not always online. I think the fact that Achillies has been in the game for so long it's not surprising that he knows other people that have been in the game for so long including acendancy members. From my perspective it would appear that the rule has been applied with bias.

I also agree with you that the rule should be revised. I don't think that scanners should be considered support plannets per the support planet rule unless they are also sending def ships from outside the tag on a regular basis. This would encourage more freelance scanners to play without the constraints of an alliance.
__________________
Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

CT R22-20, [1up] R18-16, TGV R15,
The Illuminati - [NoS] - R14-13
Travler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 10:53   #205
Willzzz
Legion Idle Master
 
Willzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 425
Willzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud ofWillzzz has much to be proud of
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler

I also agree with you that the rule should be revised. I don't think that scanners should be considered support plannets per the support planet rule unless they are also sending def ships from outside the tag on a regular basis. This would encourage more freelance scanners to play without the constraints of an alliance.

From what i gathered from the first installment of the rule they were not included unless they had ships to take part in defence and attacks. So makes me wonder when this little bit of the rule was eddited.
__________________

Played: Round 1-13. PA Team: Round 13-17. The Return: Round 18-19. PA Team: Round 20. Return.. Again: Round 21-37 Retired: Round 38 Returned: Round 39-45 Retired: Round 45 Returned: Round: 56

p3nguin Founder
Willzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 11:22   #206
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
From what i gathered from the first installment of the rule they were not included unless they had ships to take part in defence and attacks. So makes me wonder when this little bit of the rule was eddited.
The support planets rule has basically become a catch all rule versus any action that the multihunters don't like. It's not objective, interpretations seem to change wildly from case to case and the actual nature of the offence seems to lie in intentions. The cry of the mildly mentally retarded of "why can't you just play by the rules" is silly when you don't know what the rules are and nobody can tell you. Saying something like "just avoid being a support planet" or "play as a separate alliance" is akin to saying "don't be a quibblefloffer". It's just meaningless.

Does anyone seriously think that rob and achilles, two members of the community in fairly high standing from any perspective, with particularly rob having contributed a veritable plethora of ideas for the advancement of PA, went into this round with the intention of cheating in order to help ascendancy? Does anyone honestly think deleting them has made the game better in any way whatsoever?

I would normally try and avoid bringing up these issues in public but having been so utterly ignored even while I was on pateam I really believe this is the only way to bring sufficient attention to a mindset and an approach which is fundamentally damaging the game.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 11:23   #207
Jester
Pedantic hypocrite
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Back and to the left
Posts: 1,488
Jester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
From what i gathered from the first installment of the rule they were not included unless they had ships to take part in defence and attacks. So makes me wonder when this little bit of the rule was eddited.
The problem is that intent means nothing. The phrasing and interpretation are the only things that matter. Ships being used were never part of the phrasing, and now the new MHs are reinterpreting the rule deciding that scanning is enough.
__________________
I always wanted to be a dancer, but I could never get the shit off my shoes
.......
Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 13:36   #208
Zygon
Too Legit to Quit
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14
Zygon is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

DEATH TO REMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11


he is a wank
__________________
im old school but none of you will remember me
Zygon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 13:44   #209
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Exactly. So MH's judgement is decisive in the end, which does make Remy responsible, and not just someone who followed and executed a rule. The rule is simply too broad for it to be applied like that, it demands interpretation from MH for it to be applied.

In this particular case, the decision was that "scanning for everyone is an unfair benefit" - which is not contained in the rule itself, it only fits in the frame that the rule sets. But it's basically made up on the spot (by Remy, and whoever else was involved).
No. The decision was: OVER xx % of all your scans were done for alliance YYY. That gives an unfair benefit. That classifies you as support planet.
So stop trying to make this an 'OMG Remy closed achilles bc he scanned for everyone in PA' issue, that is not the case.
And to all those who are claiming bias on Remy, you could as well call me biased then, because if i were a multihunter and saw a scanner whose jgp scans (about 90% of them) were done for an alliance he's not in. i would close him without thinking twice.
I think you all are at least as biased as you claim Remy to be.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 13:55   #210
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
No. The decision was: OVER xx % of all your scans were done for alliance YYY. That gives an unfair benefit. That classifies you as support planet.
Even if that's the case, my point still stands.

Support planet rule only mentions "unfair benefits", and nothing else specifically.

So it's up to the MH's biased (and I don't mean in a necessarily negative context, I mean the natural subjectivity that every human being has) opinion on what is unfair and what isn't unfair. Which is a decision made on spot, not something clearly written in the rule.

The support planet rule puts all the responsibility on MHs enforcing it, because it gives them enough space to use it in whatever way they want.

If you were MH, you might have done the same, but if I were MH, I wouldn't even close people for repeatedly defending out of tag. Why? Because I don't see it as an unfair benefit. Both of us would still be following the support planet rule to the book. So however you use the support planet rule, it is biased by definition.

In this particular case, Remy showed complete lack of sensibility for the job by closing a scanner (regardless of which alliance he scans for). He didn't have to do it (as no specific rules exist), he chose to do it. He could as well legally close you next time you attack with your alliance. Would he still be un-biased then?
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.

Last edited by Talin; 16 Jul 2007 at 14:02.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:00   #211
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
No. The decision was: OVER xx % of all your scans were done for alliance YYY. That gives an unfair benefit. That classifies you as support planet.
If such a rule does exist I'd like to know why I wasn't made aware of it when I enquired pre-round precisely about these sorts of rules. This would have avoided the entire issue as I then could have warned rob and achilles about this rule and they could have stayed within its constraints. That said does such a rule actually exist?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:04   #212
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Even if that's the case, my point still stands.

Support planet rule only mentions "unfair benefits", and nothing else specifically.

So it's up to the MH's biased (and I don't mean in a necessarily negative context, I mean the natural subjectivity that every human being has) opinion on what is unfair and what isn't unfair. Which is a decision made on spot, not something clearly written in the rule.

The support planet rule puts all the responsibility on MHs enforcing it, because it gives them enough space to use it in whatever way they want.

If you were MH, you might have done the same, but if I were MH, I wouldn't even close people for repeatedly defending out of tag. Why? Because I don't see it as an unfair benefit. Both of us would still be following the support planet rule to the book.
Well then, your interpretation of the support planet rule is clearly much looser than mine or Remys, that doesn't mean Remy is at fault or biased for applying the rule in closing Achi.

From what you said however, given the choice between having Remy or having you as MH, i'd go for Remy, since i don't share your appreciation of fair vs unfair.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:09   #213
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If such a rule does exist I'd like to know why I wasn't made aware of it when I enquired pre-round precisely about these sorts of rules. This would have avoided the entire issue as I then could have warned rob and achilles about this rule and they could have stayed within its constraints. That said does such a rule actually exist?
Isnt there like a rule in the eula that says that in terms of closing you can get closed for issues that are actually not in the eula but are deemed as cheating by the multihunters?
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:12   #214
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Well then, your interpretation of the support planet rule is clearly much looser than mine or Remys, that doesn't mean Remy is at fault or biased for applying the rule in closing Achi.
Very well. But then it also means I wouldn't not biased or at fault for not closing out of tag defenders, as long as I applied the same standard to every planet in the universe (which I don't think Remy did in this particular case, actually).
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:14   #215
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If such a rule does exist I'd like to know why I wasn't made aware of it when I enquired pre-round precisely about these sorts of rules. This would have avoided the entire issue as I then could have warned rob and achilles about this rule and they could have stayed within its constraints. That said does such a rule actually exist?
The support planet rule is such a rule. Any repeated action taken by an individual out of tag, which gives an alliance an unfair benefit can be deemed as support action. That was originally interpreted as sending defence fleets, later it was also used to close cov oppers, and i am not sure if it was used for out of tag planets attacking regularly with an alliance, but it certainly can be used in that case too. Applying it in the case of scanners is a matter of perspective, but it can also be applied. For example, Alliance 1 has all their scanners in tag, Alliance 2 has their scanners out of tag. How is that not an unfair benefit for alliance 2, even if the scanner decided to cover his actions by scanning for other people as well, and not just only for alliance 2. I am not saying this was Achilles reasoning, and i am fairly confident it was not why he did it, but it surely could have been.
And to end my participation on this discussion, for the n-th time: The fault lies in the support planet rule, not on the MH for applying it.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:14   #216
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Isnt there like a rule in the eula that says that in terms of closing you can get closed for issues that are actually not in the eula but are deemed as cheating by the multihunters?
Back when I was a kid we used to call that "making it up as you go along".

18.7c reads
Quote:
As newer methods of cheating are discovered, you authorise us to interpret
all data logged about your account towards detecting these methods. Actions which
are deemed to be cheating are not restricted to the list given on this
EULA and may be added to at any time, and you authorise us to do so.
I don't think we could classify what rob or achilles have done as a new method of cheating as it had happened and been known about fairly widely in previous rounds. The last line, if acceptable, poses the question as to why on earth we'd have any other rules in the first place?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:15   #217
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Very well. But then it also means I wouldn't not biased or at fault for not closing out of tag defenders, as long as I applied the same standard to every planet in the universe (which I don't think Remy did in this particular case, actually).
Just fyi, you are free to report any suspicious planet whom you think might be dealing with shoddy information or being a cheating lameo, telling remy to apply his logic on all planets prolly means he would sit down and go through every planet in the game, which i hardly feel is the job a mh has, so if you find baddies that might be breaking the rules, report em' I do it all the time, and sometimes they get closed or sometimes the multihunters say: ey esse' si senor, no problem.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:16   #218
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Very well. But then it also means I wouldn't not biased or at fault for not closing out of tag defenders, as long as I applied the same standard to every planet in the universe (which I don't think Remy did in this particular case, actually).
AH! There we have it. Now it's up to you to prove that Remy applied the rule in a biased manner towards Achi and not towards other scanners doing the very same thing. If you could prove that, then you would be right.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:19   #219
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
The support planet rule is such a rule. Any repeated action taken by an individual out of tag, which gives an alliance an unfair benefit can be deemed as support action.
I think the emphasis there should lie on "can". Because it isn't always and this frustrates people. When your users don't understand the rules and you can't explain them to them there's probably something wrong with your rules.

Quote:
That was originally interpreted as sending defence fleets, later it was also used to close cov oppers, and i am not sure if it was used for out of tag planets attacking regularly with an alliance, but it certainly can be used in that case too. Applying it in the case of scanners is a matter of perspective, but it can also be applied. For example, Alliance 1 has all their scanners in tag, Alliance 2 has their scanners out of tag. How is that not an unfair benefit for alliance 2, even if the scanner decided to cover his actions by scanning for other people as well, and not just only for alliance 2. I am not saying this was Achilles reasoning, and i am fairly confident it was not why he did it, but it surely could have been.
Questions of intentions shouldn't really be considered here, as can be seen by how confused they can be.

Quote:
And to end my participation on this discussion, for the n-th time: The fault lies in the support planet rule, not on the MH for applying it.
At least most of us seem to be agreed on that. Personally I don't think remy actively went out to get people who were ascendancy. I certainly don't think it helped from the perspective of keeping people open that we were but I can't blame remy for that. What I would blame him for is applying a rule that makes no sense. If I was a multihunter I wouldn't apply the support planets rule because I couldn't justify, to myself or anyone else, when I did apply it.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:31   #220
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
AH! There we have it. Now it's up to you to prove that Remy applied the rule in a biased manner towards Achi and not towards other scanners doing the very same thing. If you could prove that, then you would be right.
In fact, you'll see that I never accused Remy of being biased on alliance or personal basis. Although I do not personally believe he went on to check every planet with scans that did 30% of their scans for a certain alliance. But since that's not even my point, I don't intend to go around proving it. I never implied that he was biased against Ascendancy.

I said that Remy's perception of fair/unfair in Planetarion is not sensible, and it's not a mindset or attitude that a MH should have (especially if they're given a rule which tells them they could do anything they want). I will also say this for anyone who agrees with him on closing people who scan for an alliance out of tag.

And to Kargool, now that he has set such standards, I certainly do expect him to check planets with scans all the time. It might sound absurd, but then again he started this whole thing by being absurd beyond any possible reason. I certainly won't bother reporting scanners, and I doubt many others will. But that shouldn't stop him in eagerly carrying out the justice to the end.

Come to think of it, I'm probably ripe for closure as well.

The rule is clearly the problem, but somehow I don't see it going away (alternateively, they will hire a lawyer to write three pages long text specifying what it's used for). So only thing we can rely in is multihunters making sensible decisions.
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:33   #221
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin

Come to think of it, I'm probably ripe for closure as well, having done all my scans for myself, and 1 JGP (which is 100%) for an Ascendancy member.

That's it, you should get closed!



Oh, and by the way, Appocomaster works together with his galaxy, ergo he should get closed! Damn cheating multihunters and pa admins.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:38   #222
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Hah, I edited out that detail at the last moment!

(you never know these days )
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:50   #223
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
AH! There we have it. Now it's up to you to prove that Remy applied the rule in a biased manner towards Achi and not towards other scanners doing the very same thing. If you could prove that, then you would be right.
Myself and Dec were in the same channel doing scans. At the same time. Doing the exact same thing. Despite asking several times for a reason why I was closed and he was not Dec never received one. Maybe I am closed because I happened to get up a little earlier and the Ascendancy people who idle in #transcendancy asked me for their jgps. No-one who was not in my channel was given a scan. The channel was only a few days old and people didn't really believe in it yet, hence the majority (of jgps only, it was a minority of every other type of scan and still well under 50% of the total scans done) were for Ascendancy.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 14:55   #224
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I think the emphasis there should lie on "can". Because it isn't always and this frustrates people. When your users don't understand the rules and you can't explain them to them there's probably something wrong with your rules.
Of course the emphasis is on you 'can'. You can close two planets playing from the same ip after repeated coordinated acts. This involves one planet attacking and another scanning. Or you can choose to let it go and issue a warning.
You can close several planets provided you have enough evidence of VNC access going on, or open proxies, or you can also let it go with a warning or a punishment.
You can close a planet for farming if you deem that his attacks are suspicious and that you have enough proof to back up your claims, or you could just take away the ships or roids stolen and leave the planet open.

In the end, most of the MHs actions are justified by his own criteria of how much is too much. Every rule is subject to the interpretation of the person applying the rule.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:08   #225
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Every rule is subject to the interpretation of the person applying the rule.
But not every rule is the subject to interpretation to the same extent.

When you look for multis, you know exactly what you're looking for. When you see the same IP through different accounts, and then spot the interaction between accounts, you're not left with all that much thinking to do. You can be wrong, but that comes with the job.

With support planet rule you can't be wrong. Everything you do is right, and everyone you close is justified by the rule itself (by the tricky "unfair benefits" bit). So there isn't a clear decision to make based on evidence. Instead you make up the rule to match the evidence you have.

Just like Remy first saw that Achi was making a certain % of scans for Ascendancy (which in the end turned to be just about 30%, iirc), and then decided that scanning for another alliance "fits" in a support planet rule. And when you think about it, there isn't much that doesn't fit in that rule.
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:20   #226
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Just like Remy first saw that Achi was making a certain % of scans for Ascendancy (which in the end turned to be just about 30%, iirc), and then decided that scanning for another alliance "fits" in a support planet rule. And when you think about it, there isn't much that doesn't fit in that rule.
I see some of you trying to make it look like 'oh it was only 30% of all scans' which of course would not be that bad. But the fact is that planet, surface, technology and unit (both normal and advanced) scans are hard to tie to a particular alliance, and in some cases impossible, since any alliance might ask for scans of planets they intend to hit but end up changing their plans for example.
Another category of scans are those that the scanner does for himself, to be able to cov-op for resources, which of course, have nothing to do and can't be tied to any alliance. The scans that can easily be tied to an alliance, and hence provide the bulk of the proof in a case like this are the news scans and the jgp scans. And in this case, your argument loses it's ground: You are not talking about 'oh, only 30% of all his scans were made for Asc' anymore, you are talking about 'oh, but it was only 80-90% of his jgps that were made for Asc'. In the end, you might try to justify this percentage as you wish, but that doesn't change the FACT that the percentage is unusually high.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:21   #227
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Why have you not replied to my post Gio? How do you explain Remy's behaviour vis-à-vis myself and Dec?
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:23   #228
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Well, for once, i would expect Remy to do the same check on Dec on grounds of a complaint from someone. But if Dec himself wants to submit to such a check, and Remy finds the same pattern in his scans as in yours, then i expect him to close Dec as well. Simple.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:24   #229
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
snip
You always hang onto the most unimportant part of the post. I said it doesn't matter if it was 30% or 100% already. I just mentioned that bit, because Remy claimed it was 90% (and made closure based on that), but in fact it turned to be much less. In general it has nothing to do with the overall point.
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:24   #230
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

This is verging on the ludicrous gio2k. Clearly if he jgped someone in ascendancy for someone outside of ascendancy then he wasn't acting a support planet for ascendancy. After all why on earth would someone attempting to support an alliance carry out actions that could only harm it?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:28   #231
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Well, for once, i would expect Remy to do the same check on Dec on grounds of a complaint from someone. But if Dec himself wants to submit to such a check, and Remy finds the same pattern in his scans as in yours, then i expect him to close Dec as well. Simple.
dec has in fact reported himself to the multihunters.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:33   #232
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
You always hang onto the most unimportant part of the post. I said it doesn't matter if it was 30% or 100% already. I just mentioned that bit, because Remy claimed it was 90% (and made closure based on that), but in fact it turned to be much less. In general it has nothing to do with the overall point.
Oh, but you are wrong. It is the most important part of the post, or should i say, of Remys case against Achi. 80 - 90% of jgp scans done for an alliance he doesn't belong to, it's ground enough for him to be tagged as support planet and be closed. At least in my view, in Remy's view, in the view of the MH team which backs him up, and in the view of Jolt's PA liaison. But if you choose to ignore or refuse that fact, go on.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:35   #233
Game^
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 531
Game^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to behold
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Oh, but you are wrong. It is the most important part of the post, or should i say, of Remys case against Achi. 80 - 90% of jgp scans done for an alliance he doesn't belong to, it's ground enough for him to be tagged as support planet and be closed. At least in my view, in Remy's view, in the view of the MH team which backs him up, and in the view of Jolt's PA liaison. But if you choose to ignore or refuse that fact, go on.
But it wasn't 80-90%, seriously stop being so stupid, read the whole thread, and then attempt to make your 'point'
Game^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:39   #234
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Oh, but you are wrong. It is the most important part of the post, or should i say, of Remys case against Achi. 80 - 90% of jgp scans done for an alliance he doesn't belong to, it's ground enough for him to be tagged as support planet and be closed. At least in my view, in Remy's view, in the view of the MH team which backs him up, and in the view of Jolt's PA liaison. But if you choose to ignore or refuse that fact, go on.
As stated above Dec reported himself right at the time I was closed. He openly stated that he was doing the exact same thing as me, which is true. Now we have established that, in your view, he should have been closed. But he wasn't. How do you explain this?
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:41   #235
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
As stated above Dec reported himself right at the time I was closed. He openly stated that he was doing the exact same thing as me, which is true. Now we have established that, in your view, he should have been closed. But he wasn't. How do you explain this?
Lack of evidence perhaps? In any case, it would be a private matter between Remy and Dec.
A reason could be that a scanner doesn't provide jgp scans because he hasn't researched them yet. Or it could also be that he's aware that jgps are easier to link to particular alliances and hence he's more careful about making too many jgps for the same alliance.
Anyways, as JBG is saying, this is getting ludicrous, but as far as i can see any argument you come up with can be rebutted and doesn't change the fact that the MH acted within the rules, whether biased or not biased, or whether he likes you or hates you.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:45   #236
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
But it wasn't 80-90%, seriously stop being so stupid, read the whole thread, and then attempt to make your 'point'
Wasn't it? I saw the summary. And unless my maths or my sight are shit , almost all jgps were tagged Asc.
So seriously, you go and check what we are talking about before making a jackass out of yourself.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 15:51   #237
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
but as far as i can see any argument you come up with can be rebutted and doesn't change the fact that the MH acted within the rules, whether biased or not biased, or whether he likes you or hates you.
This is entirely correct. But I have always claimed 2 things, 1) That I was investigated and closed as a result of bias and 2) That the rules as they stand are utterly retarded and open to massive abuse which allowed for me and potentially many others in the future to be closed as a result of bias or any other faulty reasoning.

Clearly you believe Remy that it was not personally motivated and think I am either lying or mistaken. I accept that. But surely we can at least agree that the support planet rule must be changed before the next round?
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 16:01   #238
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
This is entirely correct. But I have always claimed 2 things, 1) That I was investigated and closed as a result of bias and 2) That the rules as they stand are utterly retarded and open to massive abuse which allowed for me and potentially many others in the future to be closed as a result of bias or any other faulty reasoning.

Clearly you believe Remy that it was not personally motivated and think I am either lying or mistaken. I accept that. But surely we can at least agree that the support planet rule must be changed before the next round?
Of course i agree with you on point 2.
On point one, i don't agree that any planet can get closed on account of bias towards it. I doubt Remy, or any MH would close your planet if your jgps for Asc were somewhere around the 30% mark for example, which is what i would expect for a planet that provides such a service indiscriminately and for the greater good of the unallied planets mostly. But that is just my opinion.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 16:23   #239
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Agreeing with point 2 automatically implies agreeing with point 1, or at least the possibility that point 1 is true.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 16:40   #240
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Agreeing with point 2 automatically implies agreeing with point 1, or at least the possibility that point 1 is true.
Well, then let me rephrase that, since obviously i didn't make myself 100% clear. I agree with the first statement in point 2, the support planet rule is utterly retarded, but because it restricts the gameplay without offfering much in exchange. However i don't agree that it's open to abuse, or at least, i don't agree that a MH could just abuse the rule and get away with it. If you have been closed for unjustified reasons, i expect you would be reopened and the MH in question would be fired.
Another point i wish to make clear is that i hardly know Remy. I think the only interaction i had with him was somewhere in the round where Angels joined LCH as a wing, and i do not even remember which round it was. I don't know Achi either. I think he was in the same cluster last round, and that's about it. So no, this is not sucking up to Remy, or being biased against Achi. I am just calling things the way i see them.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2007, 17:15   #241
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

The problem lies in the fact that "unjustified" is not defined in any way whatsoever, as has been said by many before me.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Jul 2007, 05:12   #242
Travler
Bona Fide Jesus Freak
 
Travler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the Word of the Lord
Posts: 765
Travler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to all
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
So no, this is not sucking up to Remy, or being biased against Achi. I am just calling things the way i see them.
I think you have reached the Last straw of patience for some people here.
__________________
Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

CT R22-20, [1up] R18-16, TGV R15,
The Illuminati - [NoS] - R14-13
Travler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2007, 16:51   #243
Jaro
Old Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13
Jaro is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at this thread. On the one hand, it is funny that a multi-hunter has closed a scan planet because the planet was, of all things, scanning. And on the other hand, it is really sad that PA has made silly rules telling you when you can scan and when you cannot scan another planet. How dumb is that?

I stopped playing the game after r20. I had played in a total of 17 rounds. I really like playing PA, but I feel like too much fun has been taken out of the game. This whole thread is another example of things that have been done that reduce the fun in PA.

No, I did not read this entire thread, there is too much to read. So, I am not sure if someone else has said basically the same thing or not.

This problem revolves around alliances and alliance limits. I understand the need to set limits on alliances. The primary reason, not the only, but the primary reason to set limits is to control the number of fleets that can attack and defend using the faster flight times. So tell me, what does a scan planet that is not part of an in-game alliance have to do with the faster attack and defend flight times? The answer is NOTHING! It is totally ridicules that PA would create a rule that would tell you who you could scan and who you could not scan. All alliances could use the same method of scanning. There is nothing that allows one alliance to use an outside scanner, and stops another alliance from doing the same thing. So where is the problem with using scan planets that are not part of your alliance? There is no problem. They cannot send attack and defense fleets using the faster flight times. So again, what is the problem? The whole “support planet” rule is totally stupid. All alliances can use the same scan method, and there is definitely nothing illegal about scanning any planet in the universe.

Anyway, I just happen to drop in to see what was going on with PA, and I saw this thread. I just felt that it was another example of the fun being taken out of PA.

Have fun with the game! That is, what little fun is left.
__________________
I don't forget.
Jaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2007, 18:02   #244
Coltaine
7th Malazan Army
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 68
Coltaine has a spectacular aura aboutColtaine has a spectacular aura aboutColtaine has a spectacular aura about
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

I agree with you. And i dont know who will in fact do so, but i at least will - as stated - not pay for this anymore, until things get sorted. So far, i got the impression that things are tried to be "solved" by being denied and ignored, sit out and hoped to be forgotten.
__________________
» I wonder what was going through Custer's mind when he realized that he'd led his men into a slaughter? «
»
Sir, Custer was a pussy. You ain't. «
Coltaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2007, 18:06   #245
Cochese
Retired
 
Cochese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
Cochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Not even going to comment.


*Signed*
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.

Utterly useless since r3
Cochese is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018