EULA Reloaded

[-=Yggdra=-]

PA Team should really consider to rewrite the EULA for R20. Right now players agree to play according to the EULA, but get closed for stuff that has been announced on forums but never got introduced into the EULA. Best example "Supportplanet Rule". A rule that got introduced so alliances wouldnt be allowed to bypass the alliance limit, nowadays you get closed for every kind of s**t.

At this moment the rule states as follow:

(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.

Welllllllllllllllllllllllll....to me that sounds like eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevery planet that is currently playing the game. An account, that is dedicated into undertaking and repeating actions (attacking, scanning, defending, covert opping) that result in an (unfair) benefit (enemy not getting roids, enemy losing roids, enemy losing structures etc) for an organisation. Nowhere does it say that the rule only applies for planets that are out of tag. So actually you would have to close every planet in the game.

One last thing: please kick Cin out of the MH Team. An MH, who says stuff like "I don't wanna be dragged into a discussion with you" or says he is going to eat and will be back but ain't coming back for atleast 5h, is totally not MH material. Listen *****, you're an MH, your only task in this game is to monitor planets, close them and discuss the case afterwards if the owner wants to. If you don't want to discuss, being MH is not the right job for you!

[Wandows]

Heh, you seriously do not want to rewite the EULA, you know how long it would become with all the exceptions to the rules and such. Personally i think the best solution is to remove every single line from the EULA regarding the game play, apart from multying and farming.

Other then that anything you don't want to happen should be done by being hardcoded in the game. The problem is that PaTeam half the time doesn't thoroughly research the impact changes they make have on the gameplay. I could atleast list a few things that in their current form imo did/do more harm to the community/game then good (alliance ingame, XP, Zik stealing, stats/combat engine, clusters). And just adding more and more things to the EULA isn't gonna fix that, it only makes it even harder for ppl to play this game (constantly wondering if the things you do don't break the rules in some way). A good example is being Zik and having idiots suidicing ships on you, these days you actually have to run your steal ships or contact MH upfront or risk closure for farming/cheating, which is completely the opposite of how you'd want ppl to be able to play the game.

[-=Yggdra=-]

I never said that I want to rewrite it That's what Jolt has lawyers for ^^

And to mister anonymus negrepper: I never cheated, I played according to the rules so shut the f*** up.

Edit: The MH Team only has the EULA as their "weapon" against cheaters and nothing more. Still they use excuses like "Well it's common sense that this is bad" or "Well it's common sense that they are supposed to do that and not this". Stop making up rules that the EULA doesnt state, one day someone might appear who got closed and you're using a rule that the EULA doesn't have as an excuse, he can sue you for alot of money and I doubt the MHs, PA Team nor Jolt want this to happen.

[Phil^]

its their game, their rules.
either abide with them or dont play - your choice

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Phil^

its their game, their rules.
either abide with them or dont play - your choice

This is a really inane point.

[voodoo]

lol
their game, their rules? and whos paying for 'their' game?

[The Real Arfy]

Originally Posted by voodoo

lol
their game, their rules? and whos paying for 'their' game?

If I pay for a cleaner to help tidy my house, I am paying them. I am paying for their business to survive. They still own the business.

So, we are paying for their game.

[Fiery]

Yggdra, if you have an issue with the EULA then come up with a viable solution and, as you very well know, I will be more than happy to listen to you. Merely suggesting a rewrite is not a viable solution. Come up with a better way of wording the support planet rule that still leaves it open enough to adapt to change.

[-=Yggdra=-]

We are talking about rules in a game of a company that makes millions per year. Why should I do the work for them? Besides, I already tried to talk to the MHs, showed only one thing: MHs ain't able to discuss on an intellectual level.

[Travler]

18.6. Miscellaneous cheating
(a) Attempts to encourage other planets to break the rules will be considered
a breach of this agreement
(b) The transfer of accounts to other users is not permitted. Passing on your
login details to another user is not permitted, even if they are subsequently
the only user to access your account.
(c) As newer methods of cheating are discovered, you authorise us to interpret
all data logged about your account towards detecting these methods. Actions which
are deemed to be cheating are not restricted to the list given on this
EULA and may be added to at any time, and you authorise us to do so
18.7. Consequences of actions which are not allowed
(a) We reserve the right to determine how much evidence is required before action is taken(b) Any such actions will result in a warning or closure (1) of your Account
depending on the case.
(c) If your Account is closed you will be sent an automated message briefly
stating the reason for the closure. If you wish to appeal against the
closure contact the multihunter team in #multihunters. Upon completion of
this appeal the decision to close the Account will be reviewed and one of a
number of actions may result including but not limited to re-opening,
deletion or other various punitive measures (2).
(d) Accounts are automatically deleted and will be unrecoverable after 10
days of closure.
(e) An Admin does not need concrete evidence of an offence in order to
punish you, he/she just needs to have significant evidence to convince a
normal person that an offence has been committed ¿ evidence is deemed to be
anything logged by the Planetarion game server ¿ IRC logs cannot be used as
evidence, but can be used to add context to a case.
(1) Account closure means it will not be possible to log into the account,
fleets and covert operations cannot be directed at a closed Account. Upon
closing all outgoing fleets will be automatically recalled, closed Accounts
keep ticking (gaining resources, auto adjusting stealth/alert levels, etc)
with the rest of the universe.
(2) Various punitive measures imply that the punishment is completely at the
discretion of the Admins, it can vary from small score/ship/asteroid losses
to full account closures depending on the situation.

According to the Eula they can make it up as they go so Phil^ is right. I doubt that we will ever get anything more concrete.

[bwtmc]

I think you're missing the point. PA team are supposed to make up the rules (setting precedents or announcing a rule change afterwards would be cool) not the MH team. In practice, the MH team have to "interpret" the rules to such an extent they make them up (and then don't tell anyone).

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Travler

(e) An Admin does not need concrete evidence of an offence in order to
punish you, he/she just needs to have significant evidence to convince a
normal person that an offence has been committed ¿ evidence is deemed to be
anything logged by the Planetarion game server ¿ IRC logs cannot be used as
evidence, but can be used to add context to a case.

This is an interesting point actually.

How does the MH determine that "they have significant evidence to convince a normal person that an offence has been committed"? Do they have a panel of impartial people to present the evidence to?

On a similar note - why is it that the community cannot find out the details of any case where people are found cheating? Those that are closed nearly ALWAYS proclaim their innocence to the community, and tell us all that the MH are biased and nasty and mean (not aiming this at you here Yggdra, I'm just saying in general). If a crime is committed in reality, then the details of a case are made public and can be discussed in the media. Why not in PA? If they're found to be guilty, they should be named and shamed. Just closing the planet and allowing them to hush it up isn't much of a punishment. And on the other hand, it might give them a chance to defend themselves.

[Phil^]

some obvious details which couldnt be released include things like usernames, passwords, emails, phone numbers etc.
Some of those details can be part of the evidence and so obviously that section cant be released.
Im not entirely sure how the DPA would affect the rest of the evidence log, but it would expose the methods used to detect them.
I would think its for that reason, full disclosure to the community isnt done for every case - even though it would be rather convincing to others that they had infact cheated and would combat the tendancy of people to claim bias in the MH as you rightfully pointed out.