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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 07:37   #1
Travler
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What's up with the Pope Lately

Now I am not a Catholic so I never much cared for the Pope. Recently it seems like he is being attacked for reading some statements written over 600 years ago. I think he is being attacked needlessly but that is my opinion. He must have said something true and struck a nerve in the Muslim world.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 08:08   #2
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Now I am not a Catholic so I never much cared for the Pope. Recently it seems like he is being attacked for reading some statements written over 600 years ago. I think he is being attacked needlessly but that is my opinion. He must have said something true and struck a nerve in the Muslim world.
Muslims cant take anything, or talk about things normally. The world is blackmailed by the islam.

From the news: "blablablabla - people in Jordan trew monokovcocktails at churches because the pope linked the Islam with violence.

Being so moronic that it becomes ironic

ontopic:
The pope can say those things, and he gave a perfectly fine explanation, while our great Iranian leaders fail to do that. I haven't heard them apologies for anything they said. Maybe its time to make a nice fire at the local mosk, and smack some one to death like they did with the italian non.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 08:16   #3
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

it would be the same as if there was a leader of the muslim faith reading something derogatory about mary/jesus/god/etc, i would imagine you would be upset about something like that - even if it was written by someone else 600 years ago.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 08:31   #4
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Oh please Phil, i can hardly imagine groups of marauding catholics/christians killing imans and burning mosques.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 08:33   #5
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

i wouldnt rule it out, the way all religion is becoming radicalised and extremist nowadays. - besides such things im sure happened in the past around the time of the crusades.

edit : as an afterthought, its also concerning the number of cults there are like scientology, and the 'tactics' they use to deal with people.
Thats a group i can easily see turning violent
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 08:43   #6
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Could you show me a few examples of Christianity or Catholicism becoming radicalised and extreme?

I really dont see how you can ever compare the actions of Christianity/Catholicism with the actions of the Islamists. Especially with the recent cartoon gibberish.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 08:48   #7
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

obviously you are blind to the fundamentalist nutjobs that are around.
Also, certain states in america contain a high number of such extremist christians and catholics, such as texas or louisiana.
theres also things like this
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 08:55   #8
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

I'm not denying there arent nutjobs, however comparing these nutjobs to the embassy attacking, flag burning, death-to-the-west calling, murderous mobs that we see replicated all over the world, is pretty damned ridiculous .
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 08:55   #9
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

and comparing the actions of extremists to that of an entire religion is also rediculous.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 09:04   #10
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Ok, were going down the "it's just a small minority of extremists" route, gotcha.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 09:10   #11
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
Ok, were going down the "it's just a small minority of extremists" route, gotcha.
yes, since you (and thefoundation who seems to just be a troll ) were the one who brought the extremists and their actions up.
the outrage to what was said as far as i can tell from various news sources is universal, as it would be if the positions were reversed im sure.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 09:50   #12
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
He must have said something true and struck a nerve in the Muslim world.
Yeah. Because that's the only way people ever get annoyed at something bad said about them. If it's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
I'm not denying there arent nutjobs, however comparing these nutjobs to the embassy attacking, flag burning, death-to-the-west calling, murderous mobs that we see replicated all over the world, is pretty damned ridiculous .
That's more a socio-economic issue than one specifically connected to the nature of the religion itself.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 10:12   #13
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
I'm not denying there arent nutjobs, however comparing these nutjobs to the embassy attacking, flag burning, death-to-the-west calling, murderous mobs that we see replicated all over the world, is pretty damned ridiculous .
Isn't the US government full of evangelical christians who do similar to the above but in a more organized way?
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 14:33   #14
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
Oh please Phil, i can hardly imagine groups of marauding catholics/christians killing imans and burning mosques.
Looks like someone forgot about the Crusades!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
Could you show me a few examples of Christianity or Catholicism becoming radicalised and extreme?
'The South', USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Christian
Army of God
Freedomites (1902-present) Active in Canada, notable for their longevity
God's Army A terrorist group in Myanmar.
Ku Klux Klan a white supremist organization, designated terrorist by Charleston, South Carolina, USA [9]
Lord's Resistance Army Christian/Pagan/Muslim terrorist group that operates in northern Uganda, it seeks to overthrow the Ugandan government and create a country based on the ten commandments.
Nagaland Rebels (1947-present) Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004. Goal: Independence from India after annexing parts of neighboring Indian states and Burma if it has Christian majority.
National Liberation Front of Tripura (1989-present) A group that seeks the independence of Tripura from India to create a Christian Tripura.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ions#Christian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
I really dont see how you can ever compare the actions of Christianity/Catholicism with the actions of the Islamists. Especially with the recent cartoon gibberish.
Don't you remember the Jerry Springer: The Opera protests? It's just a step up from that.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 14:37   #15
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

We're not violent, if you think otherwise, we'll kill you

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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 14:49   #16
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Yeah, i just thought the whole "we're not violent, and if you say we are we'll burn churches and murder 80 year old nuns just to prove you wrong" was actually quite amusing.

Except for the nun, ofc.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 15:57   #17
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Don`t forget the "Inquisition" set up first by the Roman Catholic church in the 12th century. Himmler and Stalin learnt from these people.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 15:59   #18
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
and comparing the actions of extremists to that of an entire religion is also rediculous.
When 8 out of 10 Muslim organisation who responded on the pope's statings use violence, then i must say the pope is pretty correct.

i can only say that al-qaida is retarded, you said where violent so we're forced to kill you. The pope probably made a statement to provoke a discussion not violence. ****ing retards.

And for the person who brought christian extremism into this discussion, **** you, take my 5 cents and buy a brain. The scale is different, a few KKK mainly racial extremist cant be compared to the Islamic extremism. Hippie, bet you will remain non discriminant till the world is 1 war zone. Well this isn't discrimination this is the world biggest enemy. This is the truth and this is risk analyzation.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 16:23   #19
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

What's with the whole using historical events to try and backup an argument which concerns todays event :S

I'm hardly expecting some undead zombie templar knight to come and blow me up now am i.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 16:27   #20
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
What's with the whole using historical events to try and backup an argument which concerns todays event :S
Yes, using a historical example of why forced conversion is bad definitely doesn't apply now and will never apply in the future. Human society changes 1000% with each generation, and people never react the same way to anything ever. It's why we no longer have newspapers, they were invented over a hundred years ago for christ's sake.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 16:33   #21
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Our past is a good example of how those muslims are now

Religious fanatics, that react the same as we would have a few hundred years back
Trying to convert people by force
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 17:34   #22
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
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When 8 out of 10
You cannot be serious.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 18:06   #23
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefoundation
Well this isn't discrimination this is the world biggest enemy.
Your argument would receive more sympathy if it was against 'organised religion', rather than simply 'the religion receiving most media coverage at this moment in time, after having been subordinated and degraded by the West and Western religious leaders'. As it is, you just look like a racist idiot.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 20:28   #24
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

I can never understand why we refuse to actually speak plainly. Shall I do it for the world?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Islam, Christianity has a far worse history of violence. But we are not playing a blame game pretending that Islam or Christianity are one unified religion. The problem here is wahhabism. Just like the anabaptists once were. Wahhabism is wrong.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 21:56   #25
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
He must have said something true and struck a nerve in the Muslim world.

unfortunately that is a very easy thing to do these days.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 22:01   #26
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyirt
Don`t forget the "Inquisition" set up first by the Roman Catholic church in the 12th century. Himmler and Stalin learnt from these people.
what you are suggesting is that the Islam is an odd 900 years behind on civilisation...

You may just have pissed off a few countries now..
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 22:02   #27
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

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Originally Posted by sigrid
what you are suggesting is that the Islam is an odd 900 years behind on civilisation...

You may just have pissed off a few countries now..
It's not a question of civilisation. It's poverty inspiring hatred. There are always radicals and terrorists. What differs is the extent to which desperate populations will support them. If you look back through Islamic history this becomes readily apparent.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 22:05   #28
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It's not civilisation. It's poverty inspiring hatred. There are always radicals and terrorists. What differs is the extent to which desperate populations will support them.
I very much agree. However, i dont think the `desperate population` can look at it this way.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 22:17   #29
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

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Originally Posted by sigrid
I very much agree. However, i dont think the `desperate population` can look at it this way.
Of course they don't. They look at it through the eyes of desperate people.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 22:25   #30
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Of course they don't. They look at it through the eyes of desperate people.
We should buy them new eyes.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 22:27   #31
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It's not a question of civilisation. It's poverty inspiring hatred. There are always radicals and terrorists. What differs is the extent to which desperate populations will support them. If you look back through Islamic history this becomes readily apparent.
Toledo.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 22:42   #32
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

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Originally Posted by Phil^
it would be the same as if there was a leader of the muslim faith reading something derogatory about mary/jesus/god/etc, i would imagine you would be upset about something like that - even if it was written by someone else 600 years ago.
Yes, but it is easier to look back at the context 600 years ago than it is now. Scholars usually point to the general direction of the truth through debate and academic journals. In the present time it is more difficult due to conflicting media. I would be inclined to give the Pope some slack until we fully realise the context in which his comments were made, because at the moment the stage we at is who's shouting the loudest between the two world views involved
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 23:00   #33
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Re: What's up with the Pope Lately

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Originally Posted by GJN
Yes, but it is easier to look back at the context 600 years ago than it is now. Scholars usually point to the general direction of the truth through debate and academic journals. In the present time it is more difficult due to conflicting media. I would be inclined to give the Pope some slack until we fully realise the context in which his comments were made, because at the moment the stage we at is who's shouting the loudest between the two world views involved
You can just read the speech you know.
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