Planetarion Forums - Well, the new Forumla 1 season looks like being...

meglamaniac · 7 Mar 2005, 10:41

...shit.

I've had enough of the rule changes. I mean we've now got cars with most of the downforce banned and you can't change tires during a race. This is all supposedly to make the race more exciting by encouraging overtaking.
I'm no genius, but how exactly does having cars with less grip due to decreased downforce and harder, slippier tires (they have to last the whole race now) make overtaking more likely? It just makes it a much bigger risk so it will be done less often.

Also, the pit lanes now look almost comical. A car comes in, the guy with the fuel hose jams it in, and the only other people doing any work are the guy with the jack trolley and the guy with the "Brakes On / First Gear" sign. The rest of the crew stand around like idiots with nothing to do.

Oh yes, and engines now have to last two races but NOT if you retire... so, surprise surprise, teams that were finishing outside the points zone yesterday pulled thier cars off the track and into the pits, abandoning the race on the final lap, in order to fit new engines. So now you get penalised for winning.

Well done FIA.

NEWSBOT3 · 7 Mar 2005, 10:48

heh.

Stew · 7 Mar 2005, 10:49

It's too much of a lottery.
The team with the best car and the best driver should win, but I'm not sure they will with the new system.

Still though, Schumy didn't win so I'm not that gutted.

meglamaniac · 7 Mar 2005, 10:59

Ah yes, that was due to the new qualifying system - where you add the times for both your runs together to determine grid placement. Which defeats the entire point of having two runs, since before if you ****ed one up you still had a chance.

This really warrants a re-wording of a popular expression:
With an infinate number of monkeys on typewriters you will eventually get the FIA rules. You may get them sooner than you think...

Stew · 7 Mar 2005, 11:03

I know what happened with the qualifying, I stayed up to watch it to get an insight as to who had improved during the close season, but the qualifying did not help answer this question at all.

meglamaniac · 7 Mar 2005, 11:06

Well tbh Schumy's placement was main due to Ferrari unusually making a complete arse of thier race strategy. The new qualifying rules are still stupid though.

KoeN · 7 Mar 2005, 11:15

i didn't miss one single race between 1993 and 2003, saw everything live.
in 2004, i saw about 10% of it all. the sport has lost all it's charm for me. too many changes, too much politics.
this season will be much more interresting than 2004, no doubt about that. the gaps between teams will get smaller. but the way they try to get 'exciting' races is kind of sad.

MrL_JaKiri · 7 Mar 2005, 11:16

The whole sport's going to shit, and they're probably going to break away from Ecclestone's control when their contracts run out next year.

You're also forgetting the issue of the Australian Court overruling the sport's adjudicators over that team whose name I forget racing with last years car.

Structural Integrity · 7 Mar 2005, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

The whole sport's going to shit, and they're probably going to break away from Ecclestone's control when their contracts run out next year.

You're also forgetting the issue of the Australian Court overruling the sport's adjudicators over that team whose name I forget racing with last years car.

Minardi

I found the race quite boring. I didn't even know what the changes were before I saw the race, but the ones I noticed seem reasonable.
The no new tires thingy, the logic behind it seems OK, it just turned out differently.
The whole qualification thingy is to make the Friday qualification (or is that at Saturday morning now?) more appealing.

The pit crews are funny now. The Ferrari dudes poking in the tires just because they have nothing better to do. LOL.

And what's up with the downforce thing?

meglamaniac · 7 Mar 2005, 11:56

I found it particularly amazing that Ferrari were the only team to object to the Minardi car, when the Ferrari in use at the moment is pretty much just last year's with a different wing on it. They're apparently going to come out with a new one later in the year.
Talk about pot and kettle.

pig · 7 Mar 2005, 12:36

well tbh, it was a rather interesting race, I watched tt live at like 3am, when i was slightly drunk, and enjoyed it for the most part, the only dissapointing bit for me was seeing BAR do so shit.

I have to say though that what BAR did was a bit gay, ie not finishing so they can get a new engine, in the next races im sure we will see teams who arent in the points "not" finish

KoeN · 7 Mar 2005, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

I have to say though that what BAR did was a bit gay, ie not finishing so they can get a new engine

why? it's a valid tactic. the rule itself is gay, not the way BAR dealt with it.

pig · 7 Mar 2005, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoeN

why? it's a valid tactic. the rule itself is gay, not the way BAR dealt with it.

yes but then theres several loopholes, and in the end we as the public watching the race just want to see all the cars finish the race and have a good race, not retiring so they can get an upper hand on the other cars in the next race.

KoeN · 7 Mar 2005, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

yes but then theres several loopholes, and in the end we as the public watching the race just want to see all the cars finish the race and have a good race, not retiring so they can get an upper hand on the other cars in the next race.

i don't see how BAR is responsable for how entertaining the race should be for the crowd.

pig · 7 Mar 2005, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoeN

i don't see how BAR is responsable for how entertaining the race should be for the crowd.

problem being is, BAR did it this race, how many other teams will do it in other races and so forth, plus being british i want to watch button do well and drive

KoeN · 7 Mar 2005, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

problem being is, BAR did it this race, how many other teams will do it in other races and so forth, plus being british i want to watch button do well and drive

all teams following this tactic would be the best statement against this new rule i think. what amazes me is how the FIA didn't see this coming.

*and about Button: imagine how we Dutch people feel with Albers in his minardi, and Verstappen the last years at simtek, minardi, honda (that team never even raced) etc).
you don't know what suffering is.

pig · 7 Mar 2005, 13:04

true I dont, but thats because clearly the dutch cant drive :P

back to topic though i dont think if all the teams went against this it would be the best thing tbh, I can see a point where the top 8 drivers finish, however the FIA screwed things up, they deserve what they get for messing around with the sport.

Structural Integrity · 7 Mar 2005, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

true I dont, but thats because clearly the dutch cant drive :P

I'd have a go at you if it wasn't true.
I nearly parked my car in the mailbox out front this morning.
Shit after-snow-slush.

KoeN · 7 Mar 2005, 13:42

ehm...
Tom Coronel:

- winner of Citroen AX cup 1991
- winner Tourwagon Championship 1992
- winner Dutch Formule Ford 1800 Championship 1993
- 2nd in the European Formula Opel Championship 1994
- Dutch Driver of the year 1994
- 3rd in the Japanese Formula 3 Championship 1996
- winner of Japanese Formula 3 championship 1997
- winner of Formula Nippon 1999

Formula Nippon is the closest racingclass to F1, closer than the former Formula 3000 (now called 'GP2' ). most winners of that league received a contract for a F1 team. but being Dutch it's extremely hard to find big sponsors. he would drive for Arrows but they chose Pedro de la Rosa at the last moment. more money...

Structural Integrity · 7 Mar 2005, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoeN

but being Dutch it's extremely hard to find big sponsors. he would drive for Arrows but they chose Pedro de la Rosa at the last moment. more money...

Cheap bastards we are èh

JammyJim · 7 Mar 2005, 15:23

http://www.rinklef.de/f1-bilder1994.html

i miss those days....

they were genuinely brilliant races. the battles between hill and shumacher.

and before those two the battles between senna and mansell with prost doing his best to keep up

i miss the old days :/

Knight Theamion · 7 Mar 2005, 15:28

ferrari has already said they would be with ecclestone next year ......

however I hope indeed that ecclestone finally ****s off so we can have some decent competition again.

or..............

BRING BACK RALLY GROUP B!

pig · 7 Mar 2005, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JammyJim

http://www.rinklef.de/f1-bilder1994.html

i miss those days....

they were genuinely brilliant races. the battles between hill and shumacher.

and before those two the battles between senna and mansell with prost doing his best to keep up

i miss the old days :/

those bring back some memories

Zar · 7 Mar 2005, 17:18

F1 is shit.

How can people sit through hours and hours of watching where much of where you might end up is determined by the qualifiers and the first 2 minutes, where overtaking is uncommon, a good lap is one where you've shaved off a mere few milliseconds, where much of the tactic is to beat the other person in the pit-stop....

and all this work of many many laps can be undone by a simple yellow flag..

KoeN · 7 Mar 2005, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JammyJim

http://www.rinklef.de/f1-bilder1994.html

i miss those days....

they were genuinely brilliant races. the battles between hill and shumacher.

and before those two the battles between senna and mansell with prost doing his best to keep up

i miss the old days :/

spa-francorchamps 1993.
first F1-race i ever saw in my life, LIVE.
this was the top 6 at the end:

1 Damon Hill Williams 1:24:32.124 2 10.00
2 Michael Schumacher Benetton -00:03.668 3 6.00
3 Alain Prost Williams -00:14.988 1 4.00
4 Ayrton Senna McLaren -01:39.763 5 3.00
5 Johnny Herbert Lotus -1 lap 10 2.00
6 Riccardo Patrese Benetton -1 lap 8 1.00

i stood near the Eau Rouge corner. heard the cars coming, switch gear. and the different sound of the Ferrari which had a V12-engine. saw one car stop right in front of (Thirry Boutsen). one of the most impressive events i ever visited, this made me become a fan of the sport.

those were _the_ days.
and they will never return...

JammyJim · 7 Mar 2005, 17:26

Football : why watch a game where people for 99% of the time just pass the ball about..

Tennis : god its so boring. why watch two people just hit a ball between themselves with a racket. id rather watch paint dry.

Cricket : omg does anyone even understand this

Racing : round and round in circles. who wants to watch that?

Hockey : the only good part is when they fight

american football : stop go stop go stop go stop go

Baseball : could this be anymore boring. throw ball. hit ball. run a bit. WOWSERS

(as you can see any sport can be laughed at) :-(((

Cannon_Fodder · 7 Mar 2005, 17:34

F1 used to be good, how i loved watching Senna. If it was a wet track, you would love to sit down with your sunday dinner and watch him carve up the track. sigh....

However it is rather dull now, with only brief points of entertainment when someone crashes, that's why i switched to CART, but now that seems to be boring aswell now without Zanardi..

meglamaniac · 7 Mar 2005, 18:24

I have to admit that when it's on, I vastly prefer MotoGP.
Bike racing has so much more going as there's a relatively large space to overtake in.

Also I own the MotoGP games (1 & 2) and it's quite funky to watch proper racers go out on tracks that I know from the game, and go "ahh that's how i should be doing that corner!"

Cannon_Fodder · 7 Mar 2005, 18:26

bikes arent my thing..

and 'how ishould be doing that corner'... from what i know of driving games ive played, you take the logical path in a corner which is what racers do in the real world... but are bike games different?

meglamaniac · 7 Mar 2005, 18:37

Not exactly different, but more complicated.
I've got steering on one analog stick and throttle/brake on another. There are also lean controls to lean forward or back which affect the handling and cornering, and independant control of front and rear brakes if I want to.
Taking a corner properly on that game when it's set to simulation mode is a fine ballancing act of braking nice and early (slow in fast out etc), throttle control, steering adjustments, lean, and tilting the bike at just the right angle to get through at the maximum possible speed without the damn thing flicking out from under you. Much like the real thing I expect, but in the game you get another go when you fall off.

It does make you realise there's a lot more skill involved in bike racing though.