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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 02:21   #151
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
I landed my attack. Got roids. Why all the fuss?
( my second attack eta 5 got recalled though *whine* )

But, even though I understand the whining here.. its better to know what happens in such situations, than for it to be random ( which it has in the past ) IMO we need simple guidelines for a situation like this. It might not be the best one atm..but atleast no one can whine ( ofc u can, just kidding), as this is what they agreed to when signing up.
Just because you have a right to do things a certain way, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. To simply defend the policy because it is there makes no sense.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 02:23   #152
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

agree

but its better to be the wrong decission, when everyone knew it would be the decission taken, than to be a shit decission and have people whining why not that and why not that? U did that last time!! etc etc.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 02:57   #153
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

I still think the simplest solution would be to rollback to tick 72. That way everyone will have the element of surprise again for their attacks. Or am I being a bit to simplistic here?
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 03:13   #154
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clogg
I still think the simplest solution would be to rollback to tick 72. That way everyone will have the element of surprise again for their attacks. Or am I being a bit to simplistic here?
You would have to have a reshuffle with the option to change planet/ruler names for this to be truly effective.

This would take time.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 03:14   #155
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
agree

but its better to be the wrong decission, when everyone knew it would be the decission taken, than to be a shit decission and have people whining why not that and why not that? U did that last time!! etc etc.
Nah I just hope that common sense prevails. Clearly it doesn't, because the logic of their scheme doesn't even run.

If you recall all fleets, you can restart any time.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 08:03   #156
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Bureaucrats in power win by default.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 08:09   #157
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

There were 2 logical options:

- rollback to tick 72 (cancel all problems including the bug for defensive XP)
- restart from where it had stopped

Any other solution is just the certainty of making people unhappy, one way or another and in the option chosen, giving an advantage to a small number of planet vs the majority...
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 09:07   #158
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Rolling back to tick 72 would be great but..

My problem is that the "original" tick 72 set me up for a launch time in the middle of the night GMT. Now I will have to launch mid day (which i can't do hence my original plan) or maybe even worse wait again till early hours of the morning again which would give more time for def ships to be built res/cons to be completed etc.

I am a returning player so this procedure is new to me. I understand the need for this procedure but are you saying that there are no other options and that this procedure is the best fit to this problem? Surely such drastic measures should only be as a last resort?

I'll put my neck out and look stupid here but do you not have back ups for tick 90 info? Can it not just be re-run? No changes, fix the problem, and re-run that tick? Or was the data totally lost we have no alternative here?

I would like to fix the original "tick 90" problem (and continue with the game) not create more with the solution.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 09:09   #159
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

I blame JBG.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 09:13   #160
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

As I've said before, caving into a bunch of whiners at any time is a bad idea. The result is a bunch of half arsed measures in the attempt to please everybody and you end up not pleasing anybody.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 09:14   #161
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharur
As I've said before, caving into a bunch of whiners at any time is a bad idea. The result is a bunch of half arsed measures in the attempt to please everybody and you end up not pleasing anybody.
The measures are/were already halfarsed!
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 09:16   #162
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
The measures are/were already halfarsed!
Yeah as a result of the first cave in to the first bunch of complaints. It's all lost now, we're doomed.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 09:18   #163
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

thats just hilarious

lost 80 fr at home as had no inet. my fleets were eta 4 or so with no def now it going to be pulled. the attackers landed 2 ticks ago usualy it would mean more xp to cap but now it means - 80 roids -80 fr - lot of xp
could maybe reset my planet and play some good race now

if you just pull fleets u favour the ppl that have low eta incs

if you recall the fleets totally u favour the ppl that have low eta incs and the ppl that landed already as they can launch their ships again imidiately

if u do a rollback plz roll back more tick (and that is not cause i lost my fr)
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 09:52   #164
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharur
Yeah as a result of the first cave in to the first bunch of complaints. It's all lost now, we're doomed.
Ermm? When exactly did they cave in and to what?
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 10:23   #165
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
Ermm? When exactly did they cave in and to what?
They say there were alot of complaints previous round when everybody complained there were no procedures to do stuff when things go wrong (I wasn't there so I wouldn't know). But it is my opinion that you cannot have a procedure for things like that and that you have to base decisions on a case-by-case scenario. Ofcourse this means you need to be able to make good assessments (sp?) about the situation and need to be able to make good decisions.
But putting up a basic procedure for something like this is just asking for trouble imo. Especially when it's decided (or as I have read isn't decided) in a channel filled with representatives of alliances who are supposed to represent the opinion of the playerbase but fight more amongst eachother than anything else and the actual playerbase isn't informed of this.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 10:36   #166
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

the most annoying is that position taken by Pa Team that because they made an announcement it's too late to change it.
Well imho, it's never too late to do the right thing, and in this case it is the perfect time to do it.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 10:46   #167
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

I do understand their point tho, if they change it now they'll have created "presedent"(sp?) and it will probably cause more complains later on when people want them to change their actions again. I don't really have a solution for it though, it's a shitty situation either way.
I also think they shouldn't recall the fleets, as the only people who say they should probably have incoming theirselves (I have no outgoing and no incoming).
But tbh, they created this situation and they should fix it :P
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 11:00   #168
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Lets rollback to tick 1!
In general i hate rollbacks, they normaly cost me millions and millions of points

But not this time as i dont build shippies.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 11:06   #169
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

So no change in the decision will happen?
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 11:08   #170
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

hahaha like they'd do what's best for the game rather than what's the best for them
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 11:33   #171
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

I think people should compromise and restart the round so my planet won't be 80 ticks late.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 11:34   #172
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

And wake up to start construction/research again? no thanks
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 11:49   #173
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Sure, that would suck for you. But think how fair it would be to me
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 12:29   #174
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

heh I would actually prefer the game being started from scratch again rather than pull fleets
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 13:27   #175
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

I just cant believe it.

If I launched 1 tick earlier, I would now be in the top 10, some very nice xp, very nice roid count and my fleet would be back. So I could attack again.

This is actually mad****ingness.

why recally the fleets?

Makes no ****ing sense at all.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 13:33   #176
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Yeah exactly as Pig said. Absolutely crazy. I Payed 10 quid and bought other people credits this round. If i could get my money back id pack my bags, offer the middle finger to PA team and you wouldnt see me for love nor money. Absolutely ****ing crap.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 13:36   #177
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

It is just madness.

I think we can all agree the ticks were stopped.

However now planets have a significant advantage over me and others. How is this fair?

I ask the pa team to think through the logic (you are a good, smart bunch) dont be stupid and give a sizeable advantage to one group over another.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 13:38   #178
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Mate its too late now anyway. Fleets have been recalled, game back "open" and yeah its done. Just last time i give my money to Jolt to get muppets to run things.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 13:52   #179
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
It is just madness.

I think we can all agree the ticks were stopped.

However now planets have a significant advantage over me and others. How is this fair?

I ask the pa team to think through the logic (you are a good, smart bunch) dont be stupid and give a sizeable advantage to one group over another.
And if fleets were not recalled we would have had people having an even greater advantage over others As they would have lost their fleets despite not being in that situation before the rollback. And those saying that the rollback should have been more ticks and no fleet recall that would have made the situation even worse

Some people lose out on one attack compared to others with the way it is but without recalling you were resigning some people to lose out on MULTIPLE attacks when they lost their fleet due to the rollback and had to spend the next couple of days trying to regain their attack fleet.

The only mistake made with the rollback procedure is the total recall of fleets, it should have just been outward bound fleets recalled not returning
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 13:59   #180
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
And if fleets were not recalled we would have had people having an even greater advantage over others As they would have lost their fleets despite not being in that situation before the rollback. And those saying that the rollback should have been more ticks and no fleet recall that would have made the situation even worse

Some people lose out on one attack compared to others with the way it is but without recalling you were resigning some people to lose out on MULTIPLE attacks when they lost their fleet due to the rollback and had to spend the next couple of days trying to regain their attack fleet.

The only mistake made with the rollback procedure is the total recall of fleets, it should have just been outward bound fleets recalled not returning
Thing is, that's left to the chance, the chance of people being online or not, with 19 hours notice.

Recalling fleets is a nailed on certainty that people lose out.

Bold improves the content of what you post on the internet by the way.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 14:12   #181
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by #planetarion
[13:07:49] <Hut> here it comes, the happy FI roiders with their fleets recalled home by PA team can send another attack right away
[13:08:19] <Gio2k> gee, i womder why the top 100 is mostly filled with xans
[13:08:22] <Gio2k> :/
Gotta love it.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 14:31   #182
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
And if fleets were not recalled we would have had people having an even greater advantage over others As they would have lost their fleets despite not being in that situation before the rollback. And those saying that the rollback should have been more ticks and no fleet recall that would have made the situation even worse

Some people lose out on one attack compared to others with the way it is but without recalling you were resigning some people to lose out on MULTIPLE attacks when they lost their fleet due to the rollback and had to spend the next couple of days trying to regain their attack fleet.

The only mistake made with the rollback procedure is the total recall of fleets, it should have just been outward bound fleets recalled not returning
Putting your arguments in bold doesn't make them more persuading.

edit: oh just read lokken beat me to it
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 14:39   #183
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
And if fleets were not recalled we would have had people having an even greater advantage over others As they would have lost their fleets despite not being in that situation before the rollback. And those saying that the rollback should have been more ticks and no fleet recall that would have made the situation even worse

Some people lose out on one attack compared to others with the way it is but without recalling you were resigning some people to lose out on MULTIPLE attacks when they lost their fleet due to the rollback and had to spend the next couple of days trying to regain their attack fleet.

The only mistake made with the rollback procedure is the total recall of fleets, it should have just been outward bound fleets recalled not returning
I remember thinking about this when the policy was being drawn up, I did have an idea to deal with it but I recall it being very impractical. I must disagree with you over your attack fleet point. Right now most people probably have enough resources to rebuild their attack fleets in a day, this is, uniquely, a point in the round where more harm (in terms of alteration to the probable outcome of the game) is caused by the fleet recall than not. Personally I didn't think of this and I doubt many others did either. It's a rare enough situation really. In fairness your whole point of losing attack fleets is just gibberish now that I think of it, would anyone have even had news-scans yet? I think it's just about possible but even still there's no way people would have reliable access to them. Maybe f-crew are attacking gals with their members in it and using leaked gal statuses though!
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 15:21   #184
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Had i been playing ill be one of those that will be pissed. Attacking early, sacrificing some practical researches, prodding pods/flak fleets instead of def ships, not to mention sleepless for 2-3 days to maximize advantage of producing as many pods/flaks before attack tick ( tick 72-90 ) - just to have a good jump start (important to some players). In the end the creators messing it up. That's kinda ouch.

What in hell is the logic of recalling fleets whilst having more than 12-hour notice accross all players of the ticker's commencement. The procedure is flawed, rollbacks should be handled on a case-to-case basis.

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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 15:44   #185
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

The worst part is that my attacks are now out of phase (as waiting 12 hours to launch I am not so I'm forced to dayraid), so after my first attack failing (got recalled ETA 1), I can't have a speed research done in time to improve the likelihood of my second one succeeding either. On top of that I'm less able to dominate people in my cluster as much as I would have liked to and I'm now having to be more conservative in my play, when my first 72 ticks were set up so I could be very very aggressive and continue to press that aggression home.

I'm being cluster****ed beyond belief here.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 16:05   #186
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

right, i really havent read through most of this as im guessing its 90% whine, bar a few people <3

You KNEW the procedure was there.
You KNEW they would be followed, if it had to be.

The question is why do you whine when its only happened, if you have issues with it, why didnt you bring them up about the procedure before it needed to be actioned. You only have yourselves to blame. Dont get me wrong the procedure is shit, im not a fan, but i can accept it is my own fault for not bringing the issue up before shit hit the fan.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 16:09   #187
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
You KNEW the procedure was there.
You KNEW they would be followed, if it had to be.
No, we didn't.

I think the referance to hitchikers guide to the galaxy somebody made a bit earlier is a valid one.

edit: just to make clear, I wasn't done wrong with this recall or their procedure, so I'm not posting out of "grief" or anything
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 16:11   #188
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Why didnt you? I did
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 16:13   #189
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

The policy itself is flawed.
Only 1 game tick was affected, and the ticker was stopped before any more ticks happened.
This is what should have been done:
Rolling back to the last unaffected tick (1 tick rollback) and giving 24 hrs notice for people to be made aware of it, and putting the game back online 1 hour before the tick so that people could recall their fleets or send them away. No fleet recalling.

That would have been the fairest action to be taken, also the wisest. By recalling fleets, you not only harmed those ziks, terrans and etd who have high etas with respect to the xans and caths and some other lucky people who could land their attacks. You also gave the xans and caths the chance to relaunch their fleets again without having to wait for their fleets to get home.

Now, i am usually a very calm person. But this takes the cake.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 16:13   #190
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I remember thinking about this when the policy was being drawn up, I did have an idea to deal with it but I recall it being very impractical. I must disagree with you over your attack fleet point. Right now most people probably have enough resources to rebuild their attack fleets in a day, this is, uniquely, a point in the round where more harm (in terms of alteration to the probable outcome of the game) is caused by the fleet recall than not. Personally I didn't think of this and I doubt many others did either. It's a rare enough situation really. In fairness your whole point of losing attack fleets is just gibberish now that I think of it, would anyone have even had news-scans yet? I think it's just about possible but even still there's no way people would have reliable access to them. Maybe f-crew are attacking gals with their members in it and using leaked gal statuses though!
First of all yes people have news scans at this point.

The base research to reach Newsscan level is 100 ticks.

When you account for the various races and the subtractions and additions they make the time is
Ter: 100 ticks
Cath: 90 Ticks
Xan: 110 Ticks
Zuk: 100 Ticks
Etd: 100 Ticks

So when the game went down Cathaar players were in the window of having News Scans. These times dont take the engeneers into account though

3rd priority
Ter: 95 ticks
Cath: 85 Ticks
Xan: 104 Ticks
Zuk: 95 Ticks
Etd: 95 Ticks

Cath are well under at this point

2nd priority
Ter: 90 ticks
Cath: 81 Ticks
Xan: 99 Ticks
Zuk: 90 Ticks
Etd: 90 Ticks

Only Xan are yet to be in the window to have Newsscans when the game went down

1st priority
Ter: 85 ticks
Cath: 76 Ticks
Xan: 93 Ticks
Zuk: 85 Ticks
Etd: 85 Ticks

Only the Xan doesn't yet have the ability to have news scans and if hes still a few ticks off landing then he may have them by eta 1.

Caths have had them for 13 ticks at the rollback point, in fact they had them in time to news scan the people who launched at tick 72. The other races could have had them for 4 ticks at the rollback point


Additionally I'm not just talking about attackers losing their fleets due to more defence time BUT also the people who logged in on tick 79 and sent their fleets to safety so they could attack that night. Just because its the same time the next day doesnt mean they can get on and redo the action. Is it really fair that these people who kept their ships safe are potentially losing their ships and losing their roids and losing their ability to regain them (or defend the rest of their roids which they need to rebuild)
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 16:13   #191
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
Why didnt you? I did
Well nobody linked me to the support thing earlier and I didn't even know it was there, how did you know?
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 16:17   #192
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
The policy itself is flawed.
Only 1 game tick was affected, and the ticker was stopped before any more ticks happened.
This is what should have been done:
Rolling back to the last unaffected tick (1 tick rollback) and giving 24 hrs notice for people to be made aware of it, and putting the game back online 1 hour before the tick so that people could recall their fleets or send them away. No fleet recalling.

That would have been the fairest action to be taken, also the wisest. By recalling fleets, you not only harmed those ziks, terrans and etd who have high etas with respect to the xans and caths and some other lucky people who could land their attacks. You also gave the xans and caths the chance to relaunch their fleets again without having to wait for their fleets to get home.

Now, i am usually a very calm person. But this takes the cake.
"Are you smart? Do you have a brain? Do you know how to use it?
If you answered no to any of the former questions. there is a spot for you at PA team!"
A single tick to run your fleet or recall your fleet AFTER you have already done it once isnt much of a window. Once again I'll point out that while maybe you don't have a real life and can structure your day around PA alot of people do have one and have outside factors that decide their time. On one day you might be able to leave your ships at base till the tick before or be able to attack, get a news scan at eta 1 and recall if needed but the day after you may not and you wouldn't have been attacking or would have sent your fleet away well in advance incase you were attacked
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 16:19   #193
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharur
Well nobody linked me to the support thing earlier and I didn't even know it was there, how did you know?
If you cant read the announcement forum or the portal (and the link was probably in #planetarion topic too) then its hardly anyone else fault than your own now was it
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 16:26   #194
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
If you cant read the announcement forum or the portal (and the link was probably in #planetarion topic too) then its hardly anyone else fault than your own now was it
Yeah I didn't read that thread on announcement forum, I really got better things to do than read every single post on announcements, but I guess that means I can't complain about it.
But oh wait... I didn't! I never complained about their downtime thing, and as said before I wasn't affected by it.
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Unread 31 Jan 2007, 17:32   #195
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

We're not talking about even vaguely meaningful fleets here wakey. I doubt many people at that point had fleets that couldn't have been rebuilt inside of 24 hours. Practically speaking my point regarding news-scans still stands, most people do that 100 roid research first, there's going to be very few scanners with them around, there's the 20 construction research as well, blah blah etc. Bottom line the xp/value gained from attacks in general is going to be greater than that lost due to lost ships across the universe so a greater change from the probable pattern is caused by this action as opposed to not issuing a full recall.
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Unread 1 Feb 2007, 05:28   #196
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

didnt read much of this rest of this thread but


thought id point this out


originally pa team were not going to recall fleets, however, they caved in to whiners in #planetarion, the procedure agreed with them, but pa team at first didnt think fleet recall was necessary:P
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Unread 1 Feb 2007, 09:35   #197
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caj

originally pa team were not going to recall fleets, however, they caved in to whiners in #planetarion, the procedure agreed with them, but pa team at first didnt think fleet recall was necessary:P
If anything, this only proves how inconsistent the PA team can be sometimes.

I'm glad I was in #alliances at that time and pointed out the obvious to them that to follow the downtime procedure was the only viable option.
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Unread 1 Feb 2007, 12:10   #198
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caj
originally pa team were not going to recall fleets, however, they caved in to whiners in #planetarion, the procedure agreed with them, but pa team at first didnt think fleet recall was necessary:P
This would not have been the case. What you might be getting confused with is that the procedure of recalling fleets only came into affect after two or more ticks had been affected. If the problem could have been fixed within one hour of the original fault fleets would not have been recalled. As we are all volunteers we cant always get things fixed that quickly.
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<rext> chef recall your fleet m8 they going to fc u
<Chef> recall my fleet?
<Chef> ive not logged in for two days

Its Only Nasty, When Its Not True.
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Unread 1 Feb 2007, 12:46   #199
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef!
This would not have been the case. What you might be getting confused with is that the procedure of recalling fleets only came into affect after two or more ticks had been affected. If the problem could have been fixed within one hour of the original fault fleets would not have been recalled. As we are all volunteers we cant always get things fixed that quickly.
well all the guys who attacked early after t72 was happy to have their ships home to send again then tick started

aparently thinking isnt pateams strong side :/
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Unread 1 Feb 2007, 17:45   #200
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Re: Ticks stop - rollback etc

as most of you know i am not a big fan of PAteam

but reading the whining and bitching above i can only say this

FFS GROW UP AND GET A LIFE!!!
PAteam needs to make a desision that is good for the game not for you retards that made PA into your only perpose in life
they are understaffed and not payed, they get flak from you guy and a stone wall where the jolt rep should be.

if you have a complaint about the way the game is run please please please PLEASE go to the person who actualy CAN do something about it
[email protected]
also make sure you CC his boss into the mail
[email protected]

if you feel at that time that you need to complain even more, please write a book but dont paste it here
WE DONT GIVE A DAMN

clear
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