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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 18:56   #1
Kurashima
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[Discuss]

Apologies to those expecting a well thought out and highly humorous thread this evening , but as Nod points out, ive not been funny in years.

Anyway. Some points which came up for debate during a dinner party last night, and which ive been discussing at length all day in work.

[1]. Northern Ireland.

The conflict in the province. Is it really about religion anymore, or about control? As most people will acknowledge, Religion is, at its core, simply a very organised method of controlling the hearts and minds of individuals. Its politics without the shackles of answering to an electorate. Has the conflict itself now reached the point where a Northern Irishman is no longer defined by who he is , but who he is not. When a generation is brought up being told to hate a group because theyre different, if that group was removed, would that generation still have an identity of their own?

Do Protestants & Catholics in Northern Ireland now have a symbiotic relationship to the point where the troubles can never be resolved because they rely on each other so much to maintain their own identities?

[2] The Asian Earthquake.

For centruries Pakistan and India have fought over the disputed territory of Kashmir. For the moment theres an uneasy peace, but billions upon billions of local currency has been invested by both nations in building up a truly HUGE amount of military force in a small area (in comparison to the landmass of both countries) considering that Kashmir's natural resources are not actually all that spectacular (possibly one of the few worldwide conflicts where a war over territory is not fought due to natural resources).

Will both these nations now spend the same amount of money rebuilding the shattered region after this disaster, or will they spend a fraction of it, rely on international support, but continue to fund their military to the same , if not greater levels, than they do helping the people of Kashmir.

Why is it that Mankind spends many times more on killing one another than it does on saving the lives of others?


(Discuss both points, in as much, or as little depth as you like, and preferably without the usual level of extreme sarcasm that GD is famed for .... or be sarcastic as you like because you know very little/ have very little interest in either of the subject matters.)
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 19:06   #2
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Re: [Discuss]

'Undereducated middle class people nibbling on a cocktail stick having devoured the cheese and pineapple at the same time and knocking back a glass of Tesco's Finest Rioja have a tendancy to believe their opinions matter when the reach middle age simply because they have managed to buy a 4 bed semi and a ford focus and they now need the pretence of intellectual conversation in order to justify their pathetic little lives.'

DISCUSS
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 19:08   #3
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Re: [Discuss]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima

For centruries Pakistan and India have fought over the disputed territory of Kashmir. For the moment theres an uneasy peace, but billions upon billions of local currency has been invested by both nations in building up a truly HUGE amount of military force in a small area (in comparison to the landmass of both countries) considering that Kashmir's natural resources are not actually all that spectacular (possibly one of the few worldwide conflicts where a war over territory is not fought due to natural resources).
Centuries? Pakistan and India were created less than 60 years ago.

Kashmir has a reasonable supply of resources. Much of it is to do with pride and the history between the maharajah and minority/majority religions. Also with Pakistan the Indus flows through the Indian administered Kashmir and Pakistan is very much dependant on this as a water source. I suppose this is a strategic problem for them.

Quote:
Will both these nations now spend the same amount of money rebuilding the shattered region after this disaster, or will they spend a fraction of it, rely on international support, but continue to fund their military to the same , if not greater levels, than they do helping the people of Kashmir.
Peace relations between India and Pakistan have arguably been at an all time high in the past few years. I doubt there will be a huge investment from the Indian side into the rebuilding of Pakistan administered Kashmir, not only because Pakistan will see this as losing pride, but India has no necessary need to rebuild the other side. I'm sure however both will attempt to rebuild as much of their own sides as much as the consider is worth rebuilding.

The military problem will still exist for both nations - national pride, stupidity, greed and religion will prevent them from seeing logic, at least in the near future.

This is pretty much the problem with most of the worlds nations however. All greed and arrogance

Last edited by Zar; 14 Oct 2005 at 19:17.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 19:11   #4
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Re: [Discuss]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
[1]. Northern Ireland.

The conflict in the province. Is it really about religion anymore, or about control? As most people will acknowledge, Religion is, at its core, simply a very organised method of controlling the hearts and minds of individuals. Its politics without the shackles of answering to an electorate. Has the conflict itself now reached the point where a Northern Irishman is no longer defined by who he is , but who he is not. When a generation is brought up being told to hate a group because theyre different, if that group was removed, would that generation still have an identity of their own?

Do Protestants & Catholics in Northern Ireland now have a symbiotic relationship to the point where the troubles can never be resolved because they rely on each other so much to maintain their own identities?
It was never about religion. It was about nationality and the right of self-determination. Personally I think people are pretty much just people all over, they don't need to define themselves as in opposition to a particular social group. Everyone just enjoys feeling like they belong. The troubles are being resolved slowly, the situation is better now than it was during the 60s. I'm not quite sure what you mean about a particular group being "removed". Do you imagine all the catholics will pack their bags and head south or all the protestants will line up for the next boat to Britain? I don't see much purpose in worrying over an event that's only slightly less likely than your computer sprouting wings and flying around northern ireland zapping everyone with some funky laser beams if they mention the words "peace process".
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 19:31   #5
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Re: [Discuss]

People find it mentally easier to hate than to get along.
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 19:32   #6
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Re: [Discuss]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
People find it mentally easier to hate than to get along.
If we didn't have something to fight over would there be any use for people in authority?
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 20:11   #7
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Re: [Discuss]

The irish are braindamaged to an extent where attempting repair is futile, and although I know almost nothing about India and Pakistan (and couldnt pick that latter out on a worldmap) I'd place my bets on that conflict also being caused by an unholy cocktail of religion and sheer stupidity.

[politics]
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 20:16   #8
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Re: [Discuss]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
The irish are braindamaged to an extent where attempting repair is futile
Nobody told us alcohol kills brain cells :(((
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 20:17   #9
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Re: [Discuss]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
'Undereducated middle class people nibbling on a cocktail stick having devoured the cheese and pineapple at the same time and knocking back a glass of Tesco's Finest Rioja have a tendancy to believe their opinions matter when the reach middle age simply because they have managed to buy a 4 bed semi and a ford focus and they now need the pretence of intellectual conversation in order to justify their pathetic little lives.'

DISCUSS
Those within the upper middle class with delusions of grandeur believe what they say can really make a difference.

Unless theyre single, in which case they clearly need to look at more important aspects of their own lives before commenting on the lives of others.

[/discussion]
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 21:16   #10
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Re: [Discuss]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima

[2] The Asian Earthquake.

For centruries Pakistan and India have fought over the disputed territory of Kashmir. For the moment theres an uneasy peace, but billions upon billions of local currency has been invested by both nations in building up a truly HUGE amount of military force in a small area (in comparison to the landmass of both countries) considering that Kashmir's natural resources are not actually all that spectacular (possibly one of the few worldwide conflicts where a war over territory is not fought due to natural resources).

Will both these nations now spend the same amount of money rebuilding the shattered region after this disaster, or will they spend a fraction of it, rely on international support, but continue to fund their military to the same , if not greater levels, than they do helping the people of Kashmir.

Why is it that Mankind spends many times more on killing one another than it does on saving the lives of others?

Power... control... some degree of wealth... Those are bits and pieces of it I think sadly. You'd think in a very advanced society such as this one that governments would be above this rather primal "We can beat you up!" set of thinking.

But, no, there's way too many power-hungry individuals around that are very well off... and so long as the main working class is happy, their military is happy... Why bother with the others? What are they going to do... say mean and nasty things?

There isn't any real profit in saving lives of other people. There is however in controlling the land, taking money/resources from it {Some would say the USA is doing this with iraq (oil n stuff) for example}. Most people in power only care about power, control, and money.

No money to be made... No point.

Kind of a sad state of affairs really...
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Unread 14 Oct 2005, 21:41   #11
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Re: [Discuss]

All wars are about power and control.

All politics are about power and control.

Most marriages are about power and control.
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