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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 00:50   #51
Zar
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
i supposed if he was dressed up as an indian ala cowboys & indians he woudlntve made the press


yet these people were wiped out systematically too....
such hypocracy i say!
you mean dressed up as a cowboy

and its because indians aren't self pitying, land grabbing, money claiming, civilian killing, history abusing people are they?
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 01:54   #52
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
you mean dressed up as a cowboy

and its because indians aren't self pitying, land grabbing, money claiming, civilian killing, history abusing people are they?
Yes they were. Entire tribes were wiped out in native american wars. White people were just better at killing others.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 01:58   #53
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Yes they were. Entire tribes were wiped out in native american wars. White people were just better at killing others.
i dont think you get my point
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 02:16   #54
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Re: Nazi Harry

I didn't think you had points.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 02:18   #55
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Re: Nazi Harry

Ever.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 08:09   #56
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
and its because indians aren't self pitying, land grabbing, money claiming, civilian killing, history abusing people are they?
Presuming you mean what I think you mean, you're probably going to be banned for racism one of these days.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 08:10   #57
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
i dont think you get my point

you really need to be able to distinguish between a zionist, an israeli, and a jew.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 10:11   #58
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Re: Nazi Harry

Ah, indeed I was drunk and didn't get the point (as a matter of fact I severely doubt I read your post).

I remember when people called zar a racist (here) and he denied it vehemently. Oh the large quantity of amusement.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 10:41   #59
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by deerbarn
Why is prince charles a dildo
He's supposed to be a tampon.

I think he once said something to his girlfriend in the spirit of "I want to be your tampon" or something. Or at least someone told me. I thought he was a dildo at first as well.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 11:56   #60
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
3) harry wore a costume of rommel's desert rats who would never have worn a swastica, showing a lack of attention to detail
I think this is the best point, though it is conventionally termed a swastika, not swastica.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 12:10   #61
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Re: Nazi Harry

It could have been worse. What if Harry had dressed in an SS uniform.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 12:52   #62
Zar
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you really need to be able to distinguish between a zionist, an israeli, and a jew.
Israeli and a Zionist are the same things (at least for me).

Innocent Jews don't (necessarily) feature in this.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 12:53   #63
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Ah, indeed I was drunk and didn't get the point (as a matter of fact I severely doubt I read your post).

I remember when people called zar a racist (here) and he denied it vehemently. Oh the large quantity of amusement.
Israelis and Zionists JBG.

Not all Jews believe in a Zionist cause.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:23   #64
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
Israeli and a Zionist are the same things (at least for me).

Innocent Jews don't (necessarily) feature in this.


and you claim not to be racist HOW exactly?
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:32   #65
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
and you claim not to be racist HOW exactly?
well it depends on your definition of racist.

If it means disliking a nation or a group of people then i suppose its racist, but then so are half the people here and (britain for example) who dislike the french and others who dislike americans.

If that isn't the case - then i see nothing wrong with having utter contempt for a nation which i consider to be abhorrent, undeserving and hence i have utter disregard for its population. Zionists being people who support(ed) the establishment of this nation.

Once again i have no animosity towards Jewish people who share similar beliefs to me (and trust me there are some!).

Judaism in my eyes is just a religion anyway. Jewish people are semites. Palestinians are semites. I don't hate Palestinians. I don't hate semites.

Also i'm sick of having to justify my contempt for Zionists and Israelis. I find it double standard that people can dislike the French and nothing is said about it, however if i dislike the Israelis i get the "oh you anti-semite" bandwagon jumping on my back.

So no i'm not a racist
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:39   #66
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Re: Nazi Harry

well, i don't like any nation as a nation, as that is racism, which is wrong. And there is a difference between the long standing traditional british v french (or any other two nations for that matter) and blind hatred of israel simply because of the fact that it exists. Calling EVERY isreali a zionist is cutting a little to close to the bone i think, and i would personally think that this is racism
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:41   #67
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Re: Nazi Harry

You're interpreting 'I dislike the French', or the like, too literally, mon ami.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:45   #68
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
well, i don't like any nation as a nation, as that is racism, which is wrong. And there is a difference between the long standing traditional british v french (or any other two nations for that matter) and blind hatred of israel simply because of the fact that it exists. Calling EVERY isreali a zionist is cutting a little to close to the bone i think, and i would personally think that this is racism
It isn't a blind hatred. I consider it fully justified. I should not have to like a nation that i believe shouldn't have been created in the first place. A nation which i feel is abusing its neighbours.

What is the difference between the british and the french and the israelis here? Why hate the French?

Again the zionism thing depends on its definitions, which can vary admittedly.

I'll use a typical definition:

A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=zionism

Which would make all Israelis Zionists. However Zionists can live outside of Israel. There are jews who do not believe in the Israeli cause, and who oppose its behaviour. These people aren't Zionists.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:48   #69
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Re: Nazi Harry

because any right thinking person within any country knows to ridicule the traditional country v country debates as just being a bit silly really. which means that if you come across people who geniunly hate a country, you tend to notice the fact that they are complete stone-bonking racists
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:50   #70
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
There are jews who do not believe in the Israeli cause, and who oppose its behaviour. These people aren't Zionists.
There surely can't be many of these people. Surely?! Unless you count people who are Jewish by birth but non practicing.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:54   #71
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
There surely can't be many of these people. Surely?! Unless you count people who are Jewish by birth but non practicing.
I don't know exact numbers, but i do know they exist. I've even met one.

No one is born a "jew", just as no one is born a "christian". You are born a nobody and then usually converted to a religion (often that of your parents/family). There are those who revert back to a nobody/atheist state later in their lives.

Non-practicing people (in my eyes) aren't Jews.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:55   #72
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
Israeli and a Zionist are the same things (at least for me).

Innocent Jews don't (necessarily) feature in this.
1) they're not.
2) innocent jews died in the holocaust, no zionists or israelis did.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:56   #73
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
I don't know exact numbers, but i do know they exist. I've even met one.

No one is born a "jew", just as no one is born a "christian". You are born a nobody and then usually converted to a religion (often that of your parents/family). There are those who revert back to a nobody/atheist state later in their lives.

Non-practicing people (in my eyes) aren't Jews.
you are born jewish if your mother is a jew.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:57   #74
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
1) they're not.
2) innocent jews died in the holocaust, no zionists or israelis did.
1) All Israelis are Zionists.

Not all Zionists are Israelis.

Better?

2) Yes innocent jews died in the holocaust.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:58   #75
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you are born jewish if your mother is a jew.
Are you born Christian if your mother is Christian?
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 13:59   #76
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
1) All Israelis are Zionists.

Not all Zionists are Israelis.

Better?

2) Yes innocent jews died in the holocaust.
1) no.

2) then if you accept innocent jews died in the holocaust, why are you ranting about zionists in a thread which has nothing to do with zionism, or israel. that sort of off topic rant used to be called 'spam' in my day.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:00   #77
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
Are you born Christian if your mother is Christian?
you're born catholic if your father is a catholic, as to the various other sects, i am unsure.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:06   #78
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
1) no.

2) then if you accept innocent jews died in the holocaust, why are you ranting about zionists in a thread which has nothing to do with zionism, or israel. that sort of off topic rant used to be called 'spam' in my day.
1) yes - we have a differing viewpoint here and im taking mine.

2) I think it was in reference to a post by Stew
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:07   #79
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you're born catholic if your father is a catholic, as to the various other sects, i am unsure.
Again im taking my viewpoint here. I don't considier that people are born into a religion. They're converted as far as im concerned.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:08   #80
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
1) yes - we have a differing viewpoint here and im taking mine.

2) I think it was in reference to a post by Stew
1) no we can't.

a zionist is somebody who holds the beliefs of zionism to be true
an israeli is a citizen of the state of israel.
it is patently absurd to say that all israelis are zionists.

2) nobody was talking about israel in this thread about how insensitive harry may or may not have been towards the jews.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:10   #81
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
Again im taking my viewpoint here. I don't considier that people are born into a religion. They're converted as far as im concerned.
It depends what you mean by 'born into'. It's certainly true that several religions (orthodox judaism being the obvious example) can only accept those as members who have been 'born' into the church by virtue of their lineage.

I don't think anyone can argue that.

You're arguing from a more antideterministic viewpoint, by which being 'born into' a religion is a purely hindsight observation from tendencies later in life.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:11   #82
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
Again im taking my viewpoint here. I don't considier that people are born into a religion. They're converted as far as im concerned.
you can't 'take a view' in such a circumstance.

it would be as absurd for me to say "that red and orange hot stuff you call fire, well in my view that's water"

do not debate or discuss what you believe, you may very well believe that the moon is made of chese but you will find few people interested and will do nothing more than look ridiculous for expounding that belief.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:12   #83
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
1) no we can't.

a zionist is somebody who holds the beliefs of zionism to be true
an israeli is a citizen of the state of israel.
it is patently absurd to say that all israelis are zionists.

2) nobody was talking about israel in this thread about how insensitive harry may or may not have been towards the jews.
1) If zionism supports the state of Israel and its existence, and Zionists hold the beliefs of Zionism, and Israelis support Israel and its existence - then yes they are Zionists.

2) Its a post on page 1 i think.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:13   #84
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
1) If zionism supports the state of Israel and its existence, and Zionists hold the beliefs of Zionism, and Israelis support Israel and its existence - then yes they are Zionists.
.
your logic is flawed.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:14   #85
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you can't 'take a view' in such a circumstance.

it would be as absurd for me to say "that red and orange hot stuff you call fire, well in my view that's water"

do not debate or discuss what you believe, you may very well believe that the moon is made of chese but you will find few people interested and will do nothing more than look ridiculous for expounding that belief.
Yes of course i can in this situation.

You are arguing on the merits of religion. Religious people may consider that they are born into their religion. As an atheist i don't.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:17   #86
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
Yes of course i can in this situation.

You are arguing on the merits of religion. Religious people may consider that they are born into their religion. As an atheist i don't.
no as an aetheist you don't believe in the existance of a god.
you hence are unlikely to believe the teachings of that faith,
however an aetheist jew was still born a jew.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:19   #87
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
It depends what you mean by 'born into'. It's certainly true that several religions (orthodox judaism being the obvious example) can only accept those as members who have been 'born' into the church by virtue of their lineage.

I don't think anyone can argue that.

You're arguing from a more antideterministic viewpoint, by which being 'born into' a religion is a purely hindsight observation from tendencies later in life.
If by lineage, traditionally in their culture - then yes.

If by religion and beliefs - then no.

If Johnny has Christian parents but is orphaned as a kid and brought up as a Muslim, he was never a Christian
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:21   #88
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
If by lineage, traditionally in their culture - then yes.

If by religion and beliefs - then no.
explain this non existant distinction you have drawn
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:23   #89
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
If Johnny has Christian parents but is orphaned as a kid and brought up as a Muslim, he was never a Christian
If he was baptised, then he was most definitely a Christian, in the eyes of the Catholic faith.

You can't justify your argument by saying you're an atheist; I'm an atheist.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:24   #90
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
explain this non existant distinction you have drawn
He's defining someone as a member of a religion if and only if they personally accept the tenets of that faith. Or so it seems.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:28   #91
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
He's defining someone as a member of a religion if and only if they personally accept the tenets of that faith. Or so it seems.
yet he accepts them as members by lineage if it is a "cultural tradition".

hence the incongruity in his point
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:32   #92
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
yet he accepts them as members by lineage if it is a "cultural tradition".

hence the incongruity in his point
Quote:
He's defining someone as a member of a religion if and only if they personally accept the tenets of that faith. Or so it seems.
yes

Then again in my eyes religion is a whole load of tosh. So...

ugh this is confusing. Let me study my econometrics in peace
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:36   #93
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
yes

Then again in my eyes religion is a whole load of tosh. So...

ugh this is confusing. Let me study my econometrics in peace
if you can't understand your own arguments how do you expect others to?
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:37   #94
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Re: Nazi Harry

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
if you can't understand your own arguments how do you expect others to?
Of course i understand. I'm finding it hard to explain.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:48   #95
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you're born catholic if your father is a catholic, as to the various other sects, i am unsure.
I was under the impression that either parent being Catholic made you a Catholic (in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church, obviously).
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He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:49   #96
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Re: Nazi Harry

is there anyone on this forum who doesn't think zar is an idiot?
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:51   #97
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
I was under the impression that either parent being Catholic made you a Catholic (in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church, obviously).
of course it makes you a roman catholic in the eyes of the church.

However im not the church. So i don't accept their opinion. I understand that they believe in it tho
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:55   #98
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Re: Nazi Harry

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Originally Posted by Nusselt
is there anyone on this forum who doesn't think zar is an idiot?
You have little right to call me an idiot. I don't think you've achieved much in your life
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 14:58   #99
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
You have little right to call me an idiot. I don't think you've achieved much in your life
What on Earth does achievement have to do with idiocy?
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He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 14 Jan 2005, 15:01   #100
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Re: Nazi Harry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
What on Earth does achievement have to do with idiocy?
Because idiocy is a very subjective term and i consider those with little in the way of achievements to be idiots. Therefore i will not belittled by an idiot..
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