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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:28   #1
Zar
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US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Utterly appalled. The USA (and the UK/Coalition) deserve to be punished for this and everything to do with the war. They are giving up on their entire (bogus) reason for them going to war in the first place.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4169107.stm
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:32   #2
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

We're back in the world of yesterday!

(That's a metaphorical yesterday*, not a literal one)

*Butler.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:32   #3
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

so? most people have known for a while that they were never going to find WMD, its done though fs... get over it
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:41   #4
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

oh who the **** cares?
we removed a dictator whos been a menace to the world for years.

im glad hes gone.
and im glad someone had the balls to do it.


shame noone thought about the power vacuum afterwards tho.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:43   #5
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

http://www.policyreview.org/jun02/kagan.html


That makes for interesting reading.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:46   #6
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

If the dictator was removed for purely moral reasons, without any desire to benefit from his removal (and the only motive for war was out of benevolence) then it wouldn't have mattered after all. Unfortunately this isn't the case, with the USA and Coalition knowingly lying about the whole war in the first place (i truely believe that freedom was the last thing the American and British governments really cared about for the iraqis - of course claiming that to appease the people), and then profiting from the war at the expense of thousands upon thousands of dead people (and damaged infrastructure).

The scary thing is not the fact that the war happened, it is the fact that the US and British government have managed to get away with everything after countless amounts of lies. How many more lies are they going to get away with in the future?
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:47   #7
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar

The scary thing is not the fact that the war happened, it is the fact that the US and British government have managed to get away with everything after countless amounts of lies. How many more lies are they going to get away with in the future?
42 each.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:50   #8
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

or seven.
It depends on a few things:
a) the wind
b) the moon
c) whether or not Zar stops spouting the same bollocks in every post on this subject, that's neither interesting nor original, and is annoying to me.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:52   #9
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
we removed a dictator whos been a menace to the world for years.
Which world, exactly?
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:54   #10
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Which world, exactly?
the land of the free and the home of the paranoid
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:55   #11
Zar
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYMM
or seven.
It depends on a few things:
a) the wind
b) the moon
c) whether or not Zar stops spouting the same bollocks in every post on this subject, that's neither interesting nor original, and is annoying to me.
I havent actually brought any of this up in a long time. Maybe you have a bad memory.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 18:58   #12
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
I havent actually brought any of this up in a long time. Maybe you have a bad memory.
Maybe you should work on your comprehension skills.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 19:04   #13
SYMM
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
in a long time
heh.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 19:04   #14
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Maybe you should work on your comprehension skills.
My comprehension skills are more than adequate for where i am going in the future. I'll be earning more money in my first year than you will be by the age of 30.

Of course i welcome you to continue with your articulate English. I'm sure it will get you very far.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 19:06   #15
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

I can't believe it's 2 years since the invasion. Less than 3 months off (9th April iirc) the felling of the statue.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 19:20   #16
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
oh who the **** cares?
we removed a dictator whos been a menace to the world for years.
We? Then I blame you for supplying him with the weapons too. Murderer. Fascist.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 19:25   #17
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
My comprehension skills are more than adequate for where i am going in the future. I'll be earning more money in my first year than you will be by the age of 30.

Of course i welcome you to continue with your articulate English. I'm sure it will get you very far.
Don't ever use that argument again.


On topic, I'm surprised they announced anything. Surely it would make more sense to just let it slide out of the public's consciousness without any memorable statements on the issue? Maybe they're having a moral crisis


PS Zhukov please stop randomly accusing people of fascism.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 20:09   #18
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

i just thought id throw the comments in to cause a ruckus.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 20:11   #19
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Exclamation Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
On topic, I'm surprised they announced anything. Surely it would make more sense to just let it slide out of the public's consciousness without any memorable statements on the issue? Maybe they're having a moral crisis
Why should they not announce it? The American public has already indicated, through polls and a nationwide election, that the issue of WMD in Iraq is of no great significance.


P.S. Your signature worries me. How can someone contract food poisoning and die in the span between two bites of a hamburger?
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 20:15   #20
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
i just thought id throw the comments in to cause a ruckus.

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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 20:20   #21
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Why should they not announce it? The American public has already indicated, through polls and a nationwide election, that the issue of WMD in Iraq is of no great significance.
Well it gains them nothing and loses them a little bit of something. Obviously it's not as important to the American public now as to the British public but surely the negatives from this outweight the positives?


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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 20:22   #22
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
My comprehension skills are more than adequate for where i am going in the future. I'll be earning more money in my first year than you will be by the age of 30.
In the All-Time Most Immature Argument Contest the above narrowly lost to "My dad could beat up your dad".
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 20:26   #23
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
My comprehension skills are more than adequate for where i am going in the future. I'll be earning more money in my first year than you will be by the age of 30.

Of course i welcome you to continue with your articulate English. I'm sure it will get you very far.

His penis is *much* larger than yours though.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 20:29   #24
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

the most distressing thing about the iraq conflict is the distressing absence of good american satire,
satire is the live blood of a democracy,
where oh where is the modern tom lehrer??? why the absense of reaction from america's educated east coast?
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 20:45   #25
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
On topic, I'm surprised they announced anything. Surely it would make more sense to just let it slide out of the public's consciousness without any memorable statements on the issue? Maybe they're having a moral crisis
.
Or maybe all they announced was that some guy wasn't going back to Iraq, and the media inferred from this (correctly) that the search for WMD was over
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 20:48   #26
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

All you have to say is that he's returning at some point in the future and then never bother sending him.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 21:13   #27
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

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Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
Any complaints about the
action taken by a mod must be taken up with an admin.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
http://www.policyreview.org/jun02/kagan.html


That makes for interesting reading.
Finally finished
I'm actually very grateful for your link to that article, it's very interesting reading and deserves some sort of prize. Totally agree with what it says, its an excellent overview of the world situation and conflicting foreign policies of the US and Europe.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 21:13   #28
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
All you have to say is that he's returning at some point in the future and then never bother sending him.
very machiavellian of you commrade
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 21:33   #29
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonentity
Finally finished
I'm actually very grateful for your link to that article, it's very interesting reading and deserves some sort of prize. Totally agree with what it says, its an excellent overview of the world situation and conflicting foreign policies of the US and Europe.

i read it today as part of my revision. Thought id share because its quite adept at challenging the typical 'america does the bad thing all the time' stuff that floats about.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 21:35   #30
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
i read it today as part of my revision. Thought id share because its quite adept at challenging the typical 'america does the bad thing all the time' stuff that floats about.
quote tom lehrer lyrics in your exam.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 21:36   #31
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
i read it today as part of my revision. Thought id share because its quite adept at challenging the typical 'america does the bad thing all the time' stuff that floats about.
It's an excellent article, and great for me since my argument has always been (similar to yours) that it was right to take down Saddam Hussein, but that basing the invasion on the existance of WMDs was foolish and could only come back to bite them (Bush/Blair) in the ass.

What degree do you do?
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 21:39   #32
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

I think the reasons for them going to war was totally wrong. I think that the way in which we did it was appaulingly bad and the obvious deviation from the United Nations towards unilateral action was a bit silly and only acted to undermine it. (you dont sit 250,000 troops on a border and then withdraw them unless your a complete fool)

however,
they did remove a dictator responsible for gassing his own people that shouldve been taken care of in Gulf War I.

i still dont agree with everything america does but that doesnt mean i cant see *why* it does it.

Ability to use power changes your perspective on things somewhat.


p.s. Degree is International Politics and Military History at Aberystwyth
(www.aber.ac.uk/interpol)
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 21:42   #33
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
Ability to use power changes your perspective on things somewhat.
this is very true.
it is a pity that america has no moral concept of noblesse oblige.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 21:46   #34
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

thats not strictly true. in the same way we considered colonisation a way of civilising the uncivilised the americans use power projection and cultural / economic empire building to do the same...or what they consider to be the same.

bringing 'american style values' to the rest of the world. surely that is the same?



(i realise that this falls flat as soon as you look at some of the more economic reasons for american interferance...."oh look we could do with a new oil pipeline for Haliburon...")
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 21:48   #35
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Where justification was going to be given for the invasion of Iraq, it either needed to be totally in line with the UN's resolution or not at all. To claim that we were particuarly threatened by Iraq at the time of the invasion was incorrect. We weren't, and the failure to find WMD (whether or not they were present but destroyed) and so justify the invasion is the one of the principal causes of the modern-day hatred towards America.

On a side-note, the article made me wonder how America could end up no longer being a super/hyperpower as it is now. The conclusion I came to was that that could only happen through some from of war-weariness from the American people, probably through a large number of terrorist attacks on America that weren't possible to prevent. The end result would be a withdrawal of America from the international community into the isolationism of the inter-war years.

Any other ways?
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 21:58   #36
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

economic collapse.

thats about the only real way in which america is going to start cutting back on its military expenditure.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 22:05   #37
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Were the towns that were gassed not in revolt at the time?

Did 'the west' not sell him the chemical weapons in the first place?

Do you really want to support a policy of invading countries with leaders we simply dont like and leaving a trail of human wreckage in our wake?
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 22:06   #38
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

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Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
Do you really want to support a policy of invading countries with leaders we simply dont like and leaving a trail of human wreckage in our wake?
i support liberal imperialism.

that's where we actually rebuild and civilise the countries we invade for the hell of it.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 22:07   #39
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

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Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
Were the towns that were gassed not in revolt at the time?

Did 'the west' not sell him the chemical weapons in the first place?

Do you really want to support a policy of invading countries with leaders we simply dont like and leaving a trail of human wreckage in our wake?

why not? its not like its a 'new concept'
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 22:14   #40
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

neither are murder or rape but I wouldn't recommend them as foreign policies.

Define civilising for me yahwe.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 22:18   #41
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
so are murder and rape but I wouldn't recommend them as foreign policies.

Define civilising for me yahwe.
teaching them to use a fish knife, bringing them gin, creating a structure of drinking (nothing but champagne before luncheon, nothing red with luncheon, gins at 4, cocktails at 5, sherry at 7, supper, sauterne, then port, then brandy, whisky to say good night), teaching the need for formal dress but incorporating local dress, teaching manners. teaching them to not get so excited and to be calm in address.

that's a start
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 22:24   #42
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Well a good carpet bombing with cluster munitions, thermobaric bombs and Depleted uranium pentrators might teach them some of that yahwe.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 22:27   #43
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

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Originally Posted by Zar
My comprehension skills are more than adequate for where i am going in the future. I'll be earning more money in my first year than you will be by the age of 30.

Of course i welcome you to continue with your articulate English. I'm sure it will get you very far.
You'll not be watching any prison movies where you're going!



Prison!
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 23:23   #44
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

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very machiavellian of you commrade
Stalin knows the score.











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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 23:49   #45
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Exclamation Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

The moral argument for war was a convienience, and the thinking (if we can call it that.) was pure simplistic idiocy.
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Unread 12 Jan 2005, 23:52   #46
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

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Originally Posted by JammyJim
why not? its not like its a 'new concept'
See Hitler, Adolf > Sudentland
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Unread 13 Jan 2005, 00:07   #47
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Exclamation Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
See Hitler, Adolf > Sudentland
I wasn't aware George Bush was claiming there was an oppressed minority of Americans within Iraq who had to be brought into the fold of the American Reich.

oh yes but I forgot Bush is Hitler lol
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Unread 13 Jan 2005, 01:36   #48
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
See Hitler, Adolf > Sudentland
I read that as 'Hitler, Adolf > Sunderland'
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Unread 13 Jan 2005, 01:45   #49
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I wasn't aware George Bush was claiming there was an oppressed minority of Americans within Iraq who had to be brought into the fold of the American Reich.

oh yes but I forgot Bush is Hitler lol
Bush wasnt even born then.
I was refering to the therm "humanitarian intervention", witch has also been used by Adolf Hitler in his conquest of Sudetenland. Its soon 0200 here, so I might have spelled it wrong again.
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Unread 13 Jan 2005, 01:47   #50
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Re: US gives up search for Iraq WMD

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I read that as 'Hitler, Adolf > Sunderland'
Sunderland issued a note on that to the press last night, feriously denying that Adolf Hitler had anything to do with the extremly smart move to buy the top striker, Tore Andre Flo for millions from Glasgow Rangers.
This was followed up by the now unemployed Reid, who claimed it was a plot by the SS organization Odessa to buy up the Premiership.
More to follow etc.
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<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
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