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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 17:01   #1
Gio2k
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Innocent until proven guilty

What happened to that phrase?

A zik planet gets attacked in several waves by an enemy alliance. Planet gets covered, all attackers but one recall and the planet ends up stealing 2k harpies. Next thing he knows, he is closed for farming, and his fleets recalled, including defence fleets he sent for the alliance.
It doesn't take much brains to check the news scans and understand what happened before pulling the trigger and closing a planet. In my opinion, some mh have a slight "power trip" problem. The fact that the mh closes a planet and then has "no time at the moment" to go through the case with the closed planet because "he's busy", annoys me to no end.
And no, this is not a thread i make because it is an alliance mate who gets closed, but because i am fed up with the way the 'support' people handle the players in this game, and because i expect the multihunters to be capable, impartial and helpful when it comes to doing their job.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 17:05   #2
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
What happened to that phrase?
and because i expect the multihunters to be capable, impartial and helpful when it comes to doing their job.
LOL, seems like u never talked to one before.

only reasonable MH we had, since i returned to PA in r10.5 is Fiery. u can talk to her in a normal way and u get a response in a normal way. she explains why something happens and she first investigates and then pulls the trigger. all other MHs do the opposite.

all other MHs treat ppl a bit different, depending who they are.

u ever heard the saying: All ppl are equal, just some are more equal than others.

thinks it fits perfectly here
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 17:26   #3
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

By the way, there is a reason this thread is on PD and not on AD. This is not about alliances, it's about planets getting closed and being treated like they don't pay for their right to play. It's about my opinion that multihunters should PROVE a planet is cheating before closing it, and not the other way around. So please don't make this an "Alliance X cheats" thread.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 17:42   #4
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

i find that the multihunters are damn lenient this round but i don't know of those specific cases you speak of
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 17:45   #5
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

gio2k, thx for reminding me!

to make it clear: i didn't mean that they treat different alliances differently; i more got the expression that players who are around for a longer time and are well established in the community get treated differently than new players who don't know any "important" ppl
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 18:08   #6
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Well, to be honest, it's the attitude that annoys me. And it's not only multihunters i have problems with. Somehow in the last days i have witnessed a few cases where it looks like support people just give you the "we don't give a damn" attitude. It happened already one or two days go when pa had dns problems, which cause some people to crash their fleets either defending, or attacking or just staying home because they couldn't access internet at the right moment. Now, I understand that a rollback would have affected other players unfairly. But what frustrates me is the fact that support people use that fact as an excuse to do nothing about it. In my opinion, the support staff should have worked with the planets affteced to ensure that, even if they were only a minority, they would not be unfairly affected by the dns problems, which actually were jolt's servers problems. But i guess support never heard of things like "Innocent until proven guilty" or "In dubio pro reo". That, or they are just too lazy to help and support a community that pays for their right to play. Plus, i find it very disturbing that a planet closed can't reach a single person able to talk to him and help him at main CET times, even though there are like 10 opped people in the support channel.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 18:43   #7
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

*edit* are you kidding me? There is OBVIOUS farming going on. I suppose that fleet landing on Xcel with no pods just 'happened to mislaunch' yesterday as well? That particular case may not be, but come on, MH have been lenient this round on ziks...
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 18:44   #8
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

well #support is the biggest joke we got in pa, they have never been able to actually help ppl unless its just a pointing directions thingie
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 18:51   #9
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Oooooh even funnier....the "fleet catch" on no returning ships...the closest returning fleet was a few ticks off and they weren't even destroyers... and sending harpies at a zik with over 5k thieves?

Getting caught cheating sucks, doesnt it?
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 19:02   #10
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska
*edit* are you kidding me? There is OBVIOUS farming going on. I suppose that fleet landing on Xcel with no pods just 'happened to mislaunch' yesterday as well? That particular case may not be, but come on, MH have been lenient this round on ziks...
Ska, this is not about Xcel, and i agree that there are obvious cases of farming going on. I don't even know the particular details about Xcel. The multihunter should treat each case differently and analyse the facts presented before acting. In my opinion, he should even give the planet a chance to defend / justify himself BEFORE closing him. If his reasons / proofs are mostly bullshit, it will be obvious anyways.

Without wanting to go into specifics of a case, my problem is that mhs and support people in general seem to be too quick to take a decision, and have little or no interest in actually helping the people affected.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 19:05   #11
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Ska, this is not about Xcel, and i agree that there are obvious cases of farming going on. I don't even know the particular details about Xcel. The multihunter should treat each case differently and analyse the facts presented before acting. In my opinion, he should even give the planet a chance to defend / justify himself BEFORE closing him. If his reasons / proofs are mostly bullshit, it will be obvious anyways.

Without wanting to go into specifics of a case, my problem is that mhs and support people in general seem to be too quick to take a decision, and have little or no interest in actually helping the people affected.
fair enough
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 19:08   #12
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

18.7. Consequences of actions which are not allowed
(a) We reserve the right to determine how much evidence is required before action is taken
(b) Any such actions will result in a warning or closure (1) of your Account
depending on the case.



Now i am ofc no longer a MH, but i would like to paste this which is part of the eula which you all sign when you join this game. As you can see from above the MHs determin what they see as the acceptble action for the case. If they think it deserves an automatic closure, then its closed. So bassicaly its upto the MH what action they will take due to the evidence. And tbh this case i personaly think deserved a direct closure. Anyway he is of course welcome to appeal now after the closure. So if hes inocent he will be re-oppend.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 19:19   #13
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
18.7. Consequences of actions which are not allowed
(a) We reserve the right to determine how much evidence is required before action is taken.

aka known as the bias mh rule

nothing new there :/
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 19:26   #14
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
18.7. Consequences of actions which are not allowed
(a) We reserve the right to determine how much evidence is required before action is taken
(b) Any such actions will result in a warning or closure (1) of your Account
depending on the case.



Now i am ofc no longer a MH, but i would like to paste this which is part of the eula which you all sign when you join this game. As you can see from above the MHs determin what they see as the acceptble action for the case. If they think it deserves an automatic closure, then its closed. So bassicaly its upto the MH what action they will take due to the evidence. And tbh this case i personaly think deserved a direct closure. Anyway he is of course welcome to appeal now after the closure. So if hes inocent he will be re-oppend.
i hope u didn't get details about that case from your ex MH coworkers; i just got told over and over by Smudge that they don't talk about cases to anyone apart the closed planet no matter who asks...

about the EULA: sure we sign it; just that round for round less ppl sign it...

@Ska: about the fleetcatch and why there have been harpies: see PM on IRC

edit: it think it was no fleetcatch, just ~10 ppl attacking him in 1 wave
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Last edited by Almeida; 10 Aug 2006 at 19:39.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 19:31   #15
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

no. I was one of the people that reported it. Hence why i know details from my point of view. The rest can be saw via the MHs tools which i dont know of.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 19:35   #16
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

If someone has an issue with how their account has bene dealt with by an MH they should speak to the Deputy Head of MH - Smudge, or (while Appoco is away) Cin, the acting Head of MH
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 19:39   #17
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
18.7. Consequences of actions which are not allowed
(a) We reserve the right to determine how much evidence is required before action is taken
(b) Any such actions will result in a warning or closure (1) of your Account
depending on the case.



Now i am ofc no longer a MH, but i would like to paste this which is part of the eula which you all sign when you join this game. As you can see from above the MHs determin what they see as the acceptble action for the case. If they think it deserves an automatic closure, then its closed. So bassicaly its upto the MH what action they will take due to the evidence. And tbh this case i personaly think deserved a direct closure. Anyway he is of course welcome to appeal now after the closure. So if hes inocent he will be re-oppend.
And that is where the EULA and the MHs are wrong in my opinion. It should be up to the multihunters to prove that a planet is guilty before they close it, and not up to the planet to prove his innocence after you close it.

And the 'we reserve the right' part really bothers me, since the combination of a less-than-capable MH, the 'we don't care' attitude and 18.7.a is what makes me so angry and frustrated.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 19:49   #18
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
And that is where the EULA and the MHs are wrong in my opinion. It should be up to the multihunters to prove that a planet is guilty before they close it, and not up to the planet to prove his innocence after you close it.

And the 'we reserve the right' part really bothers me, since the combination of a less-than-capable MH, the 'we don't care' attitude and 18.7.a is what makes me so angry and frustrated.
being closed is like being arrested - you need evidence to do it, but you can allways let the person go if you feel you were wrong or don't end up with enough evidence.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 20:07   #19
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
being closed is like being arrested - you need evidence to do it, but you can allways let the person go if you feel you were wrong or don't end up with enough evidence.
And if wrongfully accused you also end up suing the police for lots of moolah and they gets embarrassed publically by the newspapers.

The way some of theese "support" people act is highly disapointing. They seem to be overeager to "clear" #support for bothersome people, like last night some nub actually started bitching at me to leave the channel while I was talking to one of the support people.

That's the service we need in #support!
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 20:08   #20
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Personally I'd like to see a system where all closed and then reopened planets get a free credit for next round. That might be because I'm clinically insane though so don't take my advice word for word, ask the giraffe.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 20:13   #21
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
And that is where the EULA and the MHs are wrong in my opinion. It should be up to the multihunters to prove that a planet is guilty before they close it, and not up to the planet to prove his innocence after you close it.

And the 'we reserve the right' part really bothers me, since the combination of a less-than-capable MH, the 'we don't care' attitude and 18.7.a is what makes me so angry and frustrated.
when making an arrest (using Kal's example) you stop the "possible" crime first....then investigate to determine guilt or innocence. Closing the planet pending investigation STOPS the possible crime, then an investigation determines guilt or innocence, at which point the sentance, "permanent closure" is imposed, or the planet is re-opened.

Makes sense to me
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 20:17   #22
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

angryduck, care to explain how closing the planet AFTER the so called farming at his planet happened stopped the possible crime (the "farming" that happened ticks ago)? how can that make sense to you?

the only thing it did was leaving some other guy without defense as the outgoing fleets from the closed planet got pulled
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 20:28   #23
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida
angryduck, care to explain how closing the planet AFTER the so called farming at his planet happened stopped the possible crime (the "farming" that happened ticks ago)? how can that make sense to you?

the only thing it did was leaving some other guy without defense as the outgoing fleets from the closed planet got pulled
2 kinds of crimes.... 1. crime's that HAVE been committed, and 2. crime's that ARE IN THE PROCESS of being committed. in either case, it's the responsability of the governing authority to take steps to stop that crime from happening, regardless if it's immediatly or in the future. being reactive is the only possible way they can respond to a crime against the eula. Creating (and ammending as needed) the eula was the "proactive step".
For example.... if your pulled over and arrested for driving drunk, your car gets towed regardless of whether you are ever convicted of that crime, and you STILL must pay for towing.
I don't neccesarily think it would be a bad thing for the MH to take note of the roids/score/fleet currently present at a planet they close for investigation and returning that planet to it's status at the time of closure if found innocent.
It would seem logical to me that "not screwing your buddy" by doing something that could get you closed or investigated, would be a good deterrant againt pushing your luck with the eula. you get arrested for driving drunk, your car gets towed...your buddies gotta walk home or take a cab right?
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 20:32   #24
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

k, now i got you; thanx
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 20:39   #25
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Personally I'd like to see a system where all closed and then reopened planets get a free credit for next round. That might be because I'm clinically insane though so don't take my advice word for word, ask the giraffe.
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Unread 10 Aug 2006, 20:41   #26
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida

only reasonable MH we had, since i returned to PA in r10.5 is Fiery.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 00:28   #27
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska
Oooooh even funnier....the "fleet catch" on no returning ships...the closest returning fleet was a few ticks off and they weren't even destroyers... and sending harpies at a zik with over 5k thieves?

Getting caught cheating sucks, doesnt it?
Nice post Ska pity you seem to lack all of the facts, let me explain what happened to you and everyone else.

The planet in question recieved 3-4 inc hostiles from xvx (reported eta 9) - it was determined they were BS inc (we are super clever).

The said call was covered with BW/rogues/buccs (all DE class btw)

At eta 7, 7 new attackers show up (all xvx). These fleets contained atleast 10000 harpies + other fi/co from zik attackers.

This WASNT a fleet catch attempt, it was anti-de to kill the DEFENCE that was sent.

Scenario 1: Attackers + defence lands.

Harpies cause over 330k value dmg to defence, wyverns finish off DE, thieves steal 150 k value back \o/

Scenario 2: Defence pulls

Anti DE ships recall, thieves steal nothing, free roids.

Scenario 3: Cover harpies

We chose scenario 3, covered the call 10 out of 11 fleets pull, 1 fleet crashes, 2200 harpies stolen.


Farming?

Also out of coincidence next tick another "BS" attack lands that happens to be fake DE and the harpies killed it. One of the excuse given by MH was that he farmed them to cover the DE, tho it was the midle of the day and we had many anti DE fleets free, if we thought it was DE it would have been covered.

Hope this explination enlightens everyone about the farming issue, if anyone wants to check my story just news scan the said planet and see for yourself.

On a side note Smudge being Deputy MH doesnt fill me with a whole lot of confidence, bring back appoc \o/
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 01:00   #28
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Being Zik is being guilty in essence. Close them all
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 01:52   #29
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

though the whole vex thing is of course a total mistake on part of the MH, let's not all jump at smudge; afaik he's a new MH? if so, assuming vex is reopened we must realise he probably wanted to be sure about the decision etc and wanted to cross-refer.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 02:05   #30
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by The 10 Commandments
Thou shalt not steal
plz close all ziks
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 02:19   #31
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
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plz close all ziks
Will do!
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 02:50   #32
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Keep this in mind before you get mad at a MH. They are working. For free.
All they have is a bit of inet power on Planetarion. You should be laughing at them, not mad.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 02:55   #33
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

if you think they work for the game just to have some power, you are sorely mistaken.
Same goes for the support team, the ops team, the mods team etc.

You think its fun working for the game , helping people who quite frankly couldnt give a damn?
You think the game is all they have?

You need to re-evaluate your misconceptions.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 03:30   #34
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Thank you ChipZ for clearing things out.

In my humble opinion Planetarion hasn't had real cheating for rounds. Multihunters don't have to hunt cheaters any more as there aren't any. Instead of concentrating on real crimes like multiing, account sharing and farming ships/roids you turn your attention to more trivial issues. As I've mentioned before in previous threads the current menthality of the people who run the game is to let the game die. This has carried on to the multihunters and their questionable decisions.

If an innocent player gets closed he won't play the next round. If a planet who wants to defend his mate out of galaxy/cluster/alliance gets closed he won't play either. If my friend wants to attack with my battlegroup all the time and he gets closed - rofl, fk this game! Fine - let the game die, I don't care either as I'm sick and tired of all this BS which goes on in here.

The community is too small and everyone knows everyone. In arbiters most people have their real nick next to their alliance. Some of the people who close cheaters are unfortunately allied also and this is a mistake. Just like a judge can't be a member of a political party the people who catch criminals and decide over their fate by acting as judge, jury and executioner in PA should not have any connections to alliances. In a small community this unfortunately doesn't work and will result in a bad decisions.

The planet in question in this thread was defending two other people and as far as I know those fleets were recalled. I don't know what happened to those planets he was defending. The butterfly effect proves that your decisions, dear multihunters, have more concequences than you might ever imagine. Please stop messing around with trivial issues and concentrate on what you were made for - multihunting.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 09:23   #35
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

wow, in some ways i do agree that u must check before u close, but again, i would like to agree with phil that the mh have plenty of things to do and u SHUD at least be grateful there is ppl to do that job...

I mean come on, how many of u would actually do that (not for the power) but to serve and help the community and get bitched at all the time,... its a hard job, and we are all HUMANS, we make mistakes, give them a break
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 09:45   #36
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska
Oooooh even funnier....the "fleet catch" on no returning ships...the closest returning fleet was a few ticks off and they weren't even destroyers... and sending harpies at a zik with over 5k thieves?

Getting caught cheating sucks, doesnt it?
Actually there were destroyers returning at that eta. It was a fleetcatch, and it was defended. All attackers recalled, except for one who suicided into him. MH have the JGPs to prove it aswell. xVx HC even admitted that it was a fleetcatch, and they had assigned the target to the planet who crashed to laucnh there, but he overslept (the zik is in my alliance, the suicider in my galaxy). The suicider had also suicided his BS into defence a few days before that from oversleeping--guess that's what happens when you don't sleep too much then launch attacks.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 10:14   #37
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Keep this in mind before you get mad at a MH. They are working. For free.
All they have is a bit of inet power on Planetarion. You should be laughing at them, not mad.
They are working for free for paying costumers. This case seem stupidly like a "ships stolen, no pods, farming" reasoning without much thought.

Pretty weak play by the MH's on this one. (Im saying MH's because every one of you represent the MH's as a whole).
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 10:29   #38
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

The fact that we have people working for free is a bit troubling. I don't know how many people are needed for doing mh jobs, but they should be working on account of Jolt, imo.
I appreciate that most support people work for free, but that doesn't justify some obvious mistakes they make. If you are not sure, don't have all the facts, don't close. If you close wrongly, you should make it up to the afftected players (as it's not only the planet closed who was affected by the closure and fleet recalling).
As i said, i have a problem with the attitude of some support people. I rather see a game where the rules are enforced by the game engine itself, than to be at the mercy of an unmotivated, unpaid 'support' staff.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 10:53   #39
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
The fact that we have people working for free is a bit troubling. I don't know how many people are needed for doing mh jobs, but they should be working on account of Jolt, imo.
I appreciate that most support people work for free, but that doesn't justify some obvious mistakes they make. If you are not sure, don't have all the facts, don't close. If you close wrongly, you should make it up to the afftected players (as it's not only the planet closed who was affected by the closure and fleet recalling).
As i said, i have a problem with the attitude of some support people. I rather see a game where the rules are enforced by the game engine itself, than to be at the mercy of an unmotivated, unpaid 'support' staff.
there is absolutely no way ( that i can think of at least ) the ingame engine could be coded to prevent farming without also banning normal attacks, or situations like this.
Its one of those things that *sound* good, but when you sit back and think about it, falls to pieces.

If someone is closed wrongly, they get reopened. Its not up to the mh to make it up to anyone - and demanding as such is stupid.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 11:04   #40
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK
In my humble opinion Planetarion hasn't had real cheating for rounds. Multihunters don't have to hunt cheaters any more as there aren't any. Instead of concentrating on real crimes like multiing, account sharing and farming ships/roids you turn your attention to more trivial issues.
There are always cheaters, most of them are behind the scenes - not in any alliances but there are *always* cheaters.
nothing is trivial, so long as its against the rules imo.
If its banned - you quite simply dont do it and its the MH job to enforce those rules against those who do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK
If an innocent player gets closed he won't play the next round. If a planet who wants to defend his mate out of galaxy/cluster/alliance gets closed he won't play either. If my friend wants to attack with my battlegroup all the time and he gets closed - rofl, fk this game! Fine - let the game die, I don't care either as I'm sick and tired of all this BS which goes on in here.
Nonsense. Ive closed people before , both who were guilty as charged and those who could explain the evidence found against them and they have played the next round.

The reason the rules exist is because there are those unscrupulous enough to abuse them, Anything to get an advantage.
your 'friend' could easily be someone, or their multi signed up purely to support your battlegroup/planet/galaxy/alliance. Now do you see why the rules came in to stop that?
Lokkens suggestion back when the rules was thought up was the better way to deal with it imo without adding extra workload on the mh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
The fact that we have people working for free is a bit troubling. I don't know how many people are needed for doing mh jobs, but they should be working on account of Jolt, imo.
Agreed, as should the rest of pateam, the support team etc. All should be compensated for their time and effort, by Jolt. ( and I dont mean with a box of chocolates at christmas to say thanks )

It is unfair to put so much of your time into a job that demands so much time, and effort - and get nothing but abuse for it.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 11:55   #41
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Agreed, as should the rest of pateam, the support team etc. All should be compensated for their time and effort, by Jolt. ( and I dont mean with a box of chocolates at christmas to say thanks )

It is unfair to put so much of your time into a job that demands so much time, and effort - and get nothing but abuse for it.
As much as we would love to be paid, given the current market conditions and the current revenue PA creates its simply not feasible to really pay anyone involved with PA at this time. If significantly more people played the game this might of course change.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 12:09   #42
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
As much as we would love to be paid, given the current market conditions and the current revenue PA creates its simply not feasible to really pay anyone involved with PA at this time. If significantly more people played the game this might of course change.

Well, the way things are going the numbers are only going down because of Jolt's inability to invest in the game. But I guess a crap company like Jolt needs some games with 0 expenses and only profit to survive. Doesnt matter if the quality of that game sucks, as long as they can milk the moneytit blue.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 12:17   #43
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Well, the way things are going the numbers are only going down because of Jolt's inability to invest in the game. But I guess a crap company like Jolt needs some games with 0 expenses and only profit to survive. Doesnt matter if the quality of that game sucks, as long as they can milk the moneytit blue.
PA makes jolt a negligible amount of money overall once you take into account all costs. This year still has the potential to be the best year in terms of overall numbers since jolt bought PA due to the free round. The free round was a big investment from jolt, and has led to this year being one of the worse years in terms of overall paid accounts. So I think it is highly unfair to accuse jolt of not being willing to invest.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 12:33   #44
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

ok, so say Jolt arent making a lot of money what happens when PA declines so much that there making no profit and decide to stop Running PA which if things carry on the way they are it will eventually happen

we need a way to make new people play, but with games like eVe and WoW which are visually attractive why would people chose to play PA, i know i prefer PA but why should a new person chose to play PA is the question

I just dont want to lose a game that i love playing.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 12:34   #45
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
PA makes jolt a negligible amount of money overall once you take into account all costs. This year still has the potential to be the best year in terms of overall numbers since jolt bought PA due to the free round. The free round was a big investment from jolt, and has led to this year being one of the worse years in terms of overall paid accounts. So I think it is highly unfair to accuse jolt of not being willing to invest.
Oh, I think the free round was great, but I honestly didnt see it as a wise investment. And as i've asked about earlier, where is the initiative from Jolt?

I've been asking for about 3 rounds now about for example putting up a donationbox where players can donate a few quid towards advertising Planetarion. But nothing happend. There were talks about making adverts for Planetarion (surely some of the people in the PA crew knows how to do some graphics work?) but this has also not happend.

Look, if you want PA to actually reach out to people, you need to communicate PA out to the masses.
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 12:37   #46
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

the free round was a brilliant idea and investment indeed, especially when it was supported by such an oh so extensive advertising campaign which resulted in a significant increase in the playerbase for the round
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 12:39   #47
aestuos
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

as kargool said , people are hardly going to randomly go to www.planetarion.com and buy a voucher you need to adverise it not on TV or anything but on places where geeks go
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 13:55   #48
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Let's call it like it is. How is it possible that a certain game similar to PA has been going on for years, free for anyone who wants to play it, with around the same number of players, yet Jolt, which charges 5 Euro or more per account is not making money out of it?
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 14:03   #49
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Let's call it like it is. How is it possible that a certain game similar to PA has been going on for years, free for anyone who wants to play it, with around the same number of players, yet Jolt, which charges 5 Euro or more per account is not making money out of it?
Caus the people running the free game actually care about the game & Jolt doesn't?
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Unread 11 Aug 2006, 14:04   #50
aestuos
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Re: Innocent until proven guilty

a) They advertise so people play it
b) they make money by advertising it once you log in

Simple PA does none of these unless your a free account
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