Planetarion Forums - A value player winning this round?

robban1 · 21 Mar 2006, 21:59

there are more cheaters in t10 than real players as usual so nothing new here

let the best man win

furball · 21 Mar 2006, 22:01

Don't you mean the best goldfish?

Robsch · 22 Mar 2006, 03:35

Obviously ascendancy are too good for the value-whores.

Tomkat · 22 Mar 2006, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

there are more cheaters in t10 than real players as usual so nothing new here

We all do love sweeping generalisations with no evidence or backup!

Can we have some more? Perhaps you'd like to tell us how it's obvious that all women love cooking or that all black people steal?!

phatjm · 22 Mar 2006, 16:57

I am not totally sure how this would play out, but I believed that doing away with the value part of the of the equation to determine who you could attack. It could still be shown for aesthetic purposes, but have who you can attack completely based upon score. For example, a 8M score guy with 600k value would get punished to hell because he cares not to keep a fleet and such and would be prime target for people trying to gain rank.

For value the equation has been: Value = (Fleet-cost / 100) + (Resources / 150) + (Constructions * 1500) + (Roids * 200)

i say just reduce it in half by doing:

Value = (Fleet-cost / 200) + (Resources / 300) + (Constructions * 1000) + (Roids * 100)

This should lower the xp whoring as seen before, and value whoring will not be as effective as it has much lower effects on score.

I never really analyze shit because I'm not overly obssesed with PA, but I figured I would throw my idea out there whether it is plausible or not.

DunkelGraf · 22 Mar 2006, 18:52

all i know is that im not going to have much fleet left tomorow.....

Banned · 22 Mar 2006, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DunkelGraf

all i know is that im not going to have much fleet left tomorow.....

rain should watch and learn \o/

robban1 · 23 Mar 2006, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

We all do love sweeping generalisations with no evidence or backup!

Can we have some more? Perhaps you'd like to tell us how it's obvious that all women love cooking or that all black people steal?!

I dont need to put up evidence to noobs like you

Phil^ · 24 Mar 2006, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

I dont need to put up evidence to noobs like you

the irony, its killing me.

JonnyBGood · 24 Mar 2006, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

I dont need to put up evidence to noobs like you

All people who have ever finished higher than halfway in any round cheated during that round to accomplish it. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Squidly · 24 Mar 2006, 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

I dont need to put up evidence to noobs like you

So how about some evidence for the rest of the PA community.

Or are you insinuating that everyone here is a noob and that you're not?

Tomkat · 24 Mar 2006, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

I dont need to put up evidence to noobs like you

what a crushing insult

Nadar · 24 Mar 2006, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squidly

Or are you insinuating that everyone here is a noob and that you're not?

But we are noobs

The_Fish · 24 Mar 2006, 11:42

Squid is, at least.

-=Yggdra=- · 24 Mar 2006, 16:26

9 2 9 winning this round would be even worse than an XP whore winning

Benneh · 24 Mar 2006, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Yggdra=-

9 2 9 winning this round would be even worse than an XP whore winning

EVEN WORSE THAN LOKKEN WINNING!

Squidly · 24 Mar 2006, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Squid is, at least.

Thank you captain obvious!

I'm a bigger noob than most I think...

But I'm a fluffleh noob!

Treveler · 25 Mar 2006, 10:50

Its getting closer...

Cannon_Fodder · 25 Mar 2006, 10:56

Oh what do you know, some more million+ value planets convientely 'crashing' at rain.

Treveler · 25 Mar 2006, 11:02

I just crashed my entire FR fleet at his place for some nice xp!!! I finally understand how this game works now...

lokken · 25 Mar 2006, 11:43

The fact is, in reality, if players want rain to win, they can, simply because the XP guise gives them the ultimate excuse as to why they aren't (necessarily) donating to him. I doubt rain is even behind it, I'd say the more guilty parties are those chucking the fleets at him deliberately trying to alter the result of the round, as while every top planet gets suiciders, the score rise is alarming.

But the fact remains is that while it's legitimate, there's nothing anyone can complain about. Many people believe that "XP whoring" is pretty much cheating in itself, so I doubt there are many objections either way as to who gets number 1 planet.

I am Idler · 25 Mar 2006, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

I just crashed my entire FR fleet at his place for some nice xp!!! I finally understand how this game works now...

Nice donating. Im sure Zhil is proud of you

Treveler · 25 Mar 2006, 12:32

Its not donating. Its understanding the 1337 skillzzzor it takes to fully utilise the 1337 xp-system and out1337 those nooob value players who are to stupid to understand that pa has evolved!!

I have ascended to a higer existance now!!

JonnyBGood · 25 Mar 2006, 12:35

Presuming you actually gained score from it. I don't think some of the ones losing 20% of their score got it exactly right

I am Idler · 25 Mar 2006, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

Its not donating. Its understanding the 1337 skillzzzor it takes to fully utilise the 1337 xp-system and out1337 those nooob value players who are to stupid to understand that pa has evolved!!

I have ascended to a higer existance now!!

Being bitter and annoying at the same time to annoy others stopped being funny after r13.

Still tho, you donated your fleet. Grow some balls woman

Treveler · 25 Mar 2006, 12:51

If you say so hunny bunny!

Nadar · 25 Mar 2006, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by EULA

18.2. Multiple Accounts / Account Sharing / Support Accounts:
Multi-ing, Account Sharing and Support Accounts are not allowed. The
definitions are, but are not limited to:
(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.

Seems someone forgot this rule, so there's a reminder.

furball · 25 Mar 2006, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar

Quote:

Originally Posted by EULA

18.2. Multiple Accounts / Account Sharing / Support Accounts:
Multi-ing, Account Sharing and Support Accounts are not allowed. The
definitions are, but are not limited to:
(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.

Seems you forgot what the rule actually says, so here's a reminder.

Nadar · 25 Mar 2006, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

Seems you forgot what the rule actually says, so here's a reminder.

Seems someone don't understand that donating your fleet is equal to supporting, so here's a reminder.

furball · 25 Mar 2006, 13:26

Nadar, did you not actually read what I highlighted?

The actions must be (1) dedicated to helping that planet/organisation and (2) repeated.

Show me how either of those conditions are fulfilled in Treveler's case.

Nadar · 25 Mar 2006, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

Nadar, did you not actually read what I highlighted?

The actions must be (1) dedicated to helping that planet/organisation and (2) repeated.

Show me how either of those conditions are fulfilled in Treveler's case.

You telling me that sending his ships to 9:2:9 with the PURPOSE of having them stolen is NOT supporting?

I am Idler · 25 Mar 2006, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

Nadar, did you not actually read what I highlighted?

The actions must be (1) dedicated to helping that planet/organisation and (2) repeated.

Show me how either of those conditions are fulfilled in Treveler's case.

I dont know.. I guess donating 1.5mill fleet value because you feel unfairly treated by the xp people might qualify..

But then again, I might be wrong.. no wait Im not.

ITS A SCANDAL

furball · 25 Mar 2006, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar

You telling me that sending his ships to 9:2:9 with the PURPOSE of having them stolen is NOT supporting?

Yes. No repeated action = no rule broken.

Alternatives

18.1. Farming:
Farming is illegal. The definitions of farming are, but are not limited to:
(a) Attacking a target with his/her consent to get his/her asteroids/ships
(b) Defending against someone who is attacking with their consent to steal
their ships.
(c) Abusing game features in order to gain excessive XP (e.g. roid farming)
(d) Doing either a, b or c by using multi-planets

You could tentatively suggest that donating ships to 9:2:9 is some form of reverse farming, but it doesn't really fit within the rule either. As always, there's section 18.6(c) to fall back on:

18.6. Miscellaneous cheating
[...]
(c) As newer methods of cheating are discovered, you authorise us to interpret
all data logged about your account towards detecting these methods. Actions which
are deemed to be cheating are not restricted to the list given on this
EULA and may be added to at any time, and you authorise us to do so.

Either way, stop getting the horn for a badly written rule like the support planet one, and then trying to abuse it to 'get your man'. At least do it properly and use rules 18.1 and 18.6.

Treveler · 25 Mar 2006, 13:47

I didnt donate my fleet! I roided his ass and it was mucho fun!

Besides, Ter xp whores has donated DE/BS to ziks the entire round to "keep their value down"

And who do you want closed? 9:2:9? I must admit that whould amuse my pitch black soul!

Nadar · 25 Mar 2006, 13:48

Depends how you look on it furball. Donating is supporting and thus cheating. I agree §18.6c suits better. §18.1 can't be used here as it's most likely people just sending them off there without 9:2:9's approval, thus not farming.

qebab · 25 Mar 2006, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar

You telling me that sending his ships to 9:2:9 with the PURPOSE of having them stolen is NOT supporting?

The difference is obviously, that he can claim he launched for the roids and forgot to pull his fleet, or whatever excuse he comes up with. Neither of them can be closed.

Unless you come up with a method of reading their minds, of course, in wich case you might get something on them!

Banned · 25 Mar 2006, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

I didnt donate my fleet! I roided his ass and it was mucho fun!

High five o/\o

-=Yggdra=- · 25 Mar 2006, 14:00

Well _Kila_ sending fleets to rain 3 times during last week seems like he really has a problem to get up in time to recall his FI fleets that are attacking the player with the biggest Zik fleet and not many roids

lokken · 25 Mar 2006, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

I didnt donate my fleet! I roided his ass and it was mucho fun!

Sarcasm, like the rest of this thread, stop hanging yourself. These posts are entirely out of character with the usual bile you post on these forums, so they pretty much whacked me in the face as blatant sarcasm.

Quote:

Besides, Ter xp whores has donated DE/BS to ziks the entire round to "keep their value down"

The difference is, they did it at a profit and for their own benefit and not at a whacking loss.

Quote:

And who do you want closed? 9:2:9? I must admit that whould amuse my pitch black soul!

Actually I think he's pretty innocent in all this. You aren't though. As quite frankly any excuse that you roided him for XP or that it was fun is pretty much nullified by the rampant sarcasm you've employed on this thread, not to mention that it was for a whacking loss. All this suggests that any excuse you have is a sham and that you're just trying to take the piss out of PA team. Needless to say, I don't think larging it on PD was a fantastic idea on your part.

The question that I think is being asked, is what rule is the best to prosecute such behaviour or whether this warrants PA team using their discretion under the catch all rule furball described.. To answer your question, I'd have your fleet returned and your planet closed and deleted if you were found to be in breach.

Congratulations either way - it's either a fantastic plan to forward a pretty embittered agenda, or a fantastic demonstration of someone shooting themselves in the foot.

Treveler · 25 Mar 2006, 15:22

Of course I did it knowing I would lose my fleet and I posted about it to provoke a reaction like this.

JBG talked about his unspoken agreement to not get defended against when he attacked certain planets, as it was a mutual benefition to drop value/gain xp etc. It isn’t cheating but it’s certainly in a grey area much like what I did today.

I also want steal ships removed. It just opens up for explorations and makes it a lot harder to balance stats as their success depends much on the general activity of the player base.

JonnyBGood · 25 Mar 2006, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

JBG talked about his unspoken agreement to not get defended against when he attacked certain planets, as it was a mutual benefition to drop value/gain xp etc. It isn’t cheating but it’s certainly in a grey area much like what I did today.

I don't remember saying that. Do you mean when I said sometimes I asked people not to defend me because I didn't want the roids? Your area's slightly grayer, I sacrificed score in the short-term to gain score in the long-term and my attacker happened to also gain score. You sacrificed score and the guy you attacked happened to also gain score. In one it's coincidental mutual benefit, in the other it's coincidental one-sided benefit. (I'm assuming you actually lost score overall here, and if not think of this post as addressed towards the planets that did)

Treveler · 25 Mar 2006, 15:38

Yeah but didnt you talk about attacking the same planet/gal over and over knowing there wouldnt be any def or something like that? Maybe that was someone else. Anyway, discussing what is grayer (grayest?) is a bit beside the point.

JonnyBGood · 25 Mar 2006, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

Yeah but didnt you talk about attacking the same planet/gal over and over knowing there wouldnt be any def or something like that? Maybe that was someone else. Anyway, discussing what is grayer (grayest?) is a bit besides the point.

DLR and jerome attacked each other over and over, and I think DLR hit bunneh pretty constantly as well, maybe that's what you're thinking about. For my part I think three times is the most I've attacked one single planet this round. Generally I tried to vary it a lot as I suspected after two or three times the guy I was hitting might suspect a fake. Frankly I think my situation is a lot different to yours. I didn't care who was attacking me, you launched on the #1value planet in the universe. My tactics were about gaining score in the long-run, yours were about someone else gaining score.

Treveler · 25 Mar 2006, 16:00

Yes but what if I did it to change from value to xp? I needed to lower my value to make it easier to xp-whore and this way i aslo gained max xp from 300 roids?

My motivation wanst to boost his score, but to put highlight how easy it is to exploit ziks and how hard it is to prove.

Besides telling your gal not to defend you as it will benefit you in the long run is as dodgy as it gets in my book.

Achilles · 25 Mar 2006, 16:02

Ship farming is lame. Ship donation is lamer. Treveler is lamest.

JonnyBGood · 25 Mar 2006, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

Yes but what if I did it to change from value to xp? I needed to lower my value to make it easier to xp-whore and this way i aslo gained max xp from 300 roids?

Indeed, that would have been fine. But you did it on the last day of the round so I doubt you're going to fit in much xp-whoring between now and then.

Quote:

Besides telling your gal not to defend you as it will benefit you in the long run is as dodgy as it gets in my book.

If I could have blown up the roids at my own planet I would have heh.

Treveler · 25 Mar 2006, 16:11

So its okey if you do it how far from the last tick?

JonnyBGood · 25 Mar 2006, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

So its okey if you do it how far from the last tick?

I don't know, maybe a minimum of enough time for at least one xp-whoring attack?

Treveler · 25 Mar 2006, 16:18

That should be added to the rules then.

What if I just wanted to attack the biggest player, would that be okey?

JonnyBGood · 25 Mar 2006, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treveler

That should be added to the rules then.

What if I just wanted to attack the biggest player, would that be okey?

To be honest I'm really not sure. For example dunk wanted to suicide all his fleet in his end of round lemming run. What if he had suicided on rain? Ziks lead to strange areas.