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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 03:57   #1
Yahwe
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Because Theology is important

I am of course aware of many doctrines, many beliefs, many systems. It is my nature.

Increasingly people are less aware of theology. That is because it has reduced in relevancy. What I fear is a resurection of theological arguments in the generations to come.

Thus there are things of which we all should be aware.

Monotheism is the belief in one god. Akhamenahotep supported the oldest recorded form of monotheism. In terms of longievity Judaism is the oldest surviving monotheistic religion.

Christianity and Islam flow from but are not the same as Judaism.

Judiasm has no concept of litteral interpretation. Instead it has spent many many years learning to see it's holy text as metaphorical.

Christianity has many sects.

There are those who will try to apply a litteral interpretation to the old testament (judaistic text). This is fundamentally wrong.

What question should we ask them? (apart from reminding them that 'Jesus' was actually a really really good person)

Leviticus 20:21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.

Deuteronomy 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.


This is the key.

Anyone who postulates support for old testament laws.

Ask them to reconcile these two passages.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 04:08   #2
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Re: Because Theology is important

Whoa, this is strangely convoluted moment. But as you say, any Christian who refuses to acknowledge the New Covenant that is the foundation of their faith is misguided.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 04:15   #3
Yahwe
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
any Christian who refuses to acknowledge the New Covenant that is the foundation of their faith is misguided.
And what are the terms of that covenant?
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 04:23   #4
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Re: Because Theology is important

Pick up your little red Gideon's and read for yourself. I'm going to bed.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 04:26   #5
Yahwe
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
Pick up your little red Gideon's and read for yourself. I'm going to bed.
This is not IRC.

I asked you for a reason.

There is no point in your making gandiose statements. If one does not analyse the differences then one is (frankly) lying. The christian sects do not agree. Many thousands of people have died over theological differences.

It is simply not good enough to pretend that there is consensus
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 04:58   #6
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Re: Because Theology is important

I dont like the categorisation of 'monotheistic religions' because it tends to gloss over just how different Judiasm is from Christianity. The number of gods that a religion has is relatively unimportant compared to things like the attitude that it promotes towards this world (rather than an afterlife), the view of humanity which it is rooted in, the actions and outlooks it encourages its practitioners to have, its degree of supernaturaliism, and so on. While Christianity and Judiasm are closely linked by history, they are very dissimilar when it comes to these fundamentals.

Quote:

Judiasm has no concept of litteral interpretation. Instead it has spent many many years learning to see it's holy text as metaphorical.
As far as I know, this isnt true. Most religious Jews today dont interpret the Torah as literal, but then nor do most Christians. But I think that this is how it used to be interpreted by both religions. In any case, Christianity has a fairly long tradition of exegesis that goes at least as far back as Augustine.

Last edited by Nodrog; 24 Jun 2006 at 05:46.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 10:11   #7
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Re: Because Theology is important

Anyone who believes the bible is literal is an idiot.
Especially one who believes the English bible is literal.

I'm amazed that I seem to know more about a lot about the bible (and the history of it) than a lot of christians.

The old and new testemant can't decide whether
"God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious"
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
or
"God is kind, merciful, and good"
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8

And Jesus isn't much better. Admittedly I have only read Matthew, Mark and Luke but Jesus seems to be a rather angry guy in parts...
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 12:17   #8
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Re: Because Theology is important

I'd be angry if my mother told me she was a virgin.

Relgion is just handy way of repressing women and the weak.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 17:34   #9
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I am of course aware of many doctrines, many beliefs, many systems. It is my nature.
This reminds me of Dubaya.

Yahwe has clearly learned "bushish".
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 19:07   #10
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
This is not IRC.

I asked you for a reason.

There is no point in your making gandiose statements. If one does not analyse the differences then one is (frankly) lying. The christian sects do not agree. Many thousands of people have died over theological differences.

It is simply not good enough to pretend that there is consensus
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. I was tired last night, hence my brevity.

Simply put, I agree; Judaism and Christianity are separate and distinct religions that share a textual source. The 'New Covenant' I referred to is the New Testament, God's renewal of his relationship with humankind. Unfortunately, the apostles did not write a legal document, so there are no 'terms' as such. The principle difference between the New Testament and the Old Testament (or Torah), and the crux of the Christian faith, is the person of Jesus. A Christian accepts the divine incarnation of Christ. A Jew does not.

I'm still not really sure what your question was or whether I managed to answer it.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 19:22   #11
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Re: Because Theology is important

As you say Boogster the problem with the French is that they're always building nuclear weapons.

I agree with you that we just all insert cheddar cheese up the nostrils of mice.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 19:32   #12
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I dont like the categorisation of 'monotheistic religions' because it tends to gloss over just how different Judiasm is from Christianity. The number of gods that a religion has is relatively unimportant compared to things like the attitude that it promotes towards this world (rather than an afterlife), the view of humanity which it is rooted in, the actions and outlooks it encourages its practitioners to have, its degree of supernaturaliism, and so on. While Christianity and Judiasm are closely linked by history, they are very dissimilar when it comes to these fundamentals.
Rubbish.

When a religion has only one god it's attitude to the world, the view of humanity that it is rooted in and the actions and outlooks it encourages are profoundly affected by the fact that there is only one god.

When a religion is pantheonic all of these characteristics are also effected by the pantheon.

The value of terms such as monotheism and polytheism is that monotheistic religions tend to influence the view of humanity that it is rooted in and the actions and outlooks it encourages in a noticably similar way.. With precisely the same being true of polytheism.

One of the most important aspects of the effect of a religion on a society over the last 8,000 years has been the number of gods that religion has.
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Unread 24 Jun 2006, 22:17   #13
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
One of the most important aspects of the effect of a religion on a society over the last 8,000 years has been the number of gods that religion has.
Can you expand on this please.
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Unread 25 Jun 2006, 15:48   #14
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Re: Because Theology is important

Historically speaking monotheistic religions have generally been more intolerant in their attitude towards other religions once they were in the ascendancy. Remember the pantheists and the panentheists though!
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 18:42   #15
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Historically speaking monotheistic religions have generally been more intolerant in their attitude towards other religions once they were in the ascendancy. Remember the pantheists and the panentheists though!
When you worship the one true god, it is contrary to your beliefs to allow for other gods who are clearly false gods.

The same is true for atheism. If you believe that all gods are false then you tend to be hostile to all religions.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 19:56   #16
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
When you worship the one true god, it is contrary to your beliefs to allow for other gods who are clearly false gods.

The same is true for atheism. If you believe that all gods are false then you tend to be hostile to all religions.
Atheism is not an aggressive belief though. Right now atheism is in the ascendancy across most of Europe but we do not see religious people being persecuted. I object to anyone's beliefs being voiced aggressively and unnecessarily in my face. I don't care if you agree with me, I just don't like loud obnoxious people.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 20:26   #17
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Atheism is not an aggressive belief though. Right now atheism is in the ascendancy across most of Europe but we do not see religious people being persecuted. I object to anyone's beliefs being voiced aggressively and unnecessarily in my face. I don't care if you agree with me, I just don't like loud obnoxious people.
juadism isn't persecuting christians at the moment but it doesn't follow that judaism is not an aggressive belief.

Aetheism shares the character of absolute truth with monotheism. Once you know what is true you know what is false. Once you know what is right you know what is wrong.

Violence and agression stem from these things. It is irrelevant that there are periods of calm.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 20:33   #18
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
juadism isn't persecuting christians at the moment but it doesn't follow that judaism is not an aggressive belief.

Aetheism shares the character of absolute truth with monotheism. Once you know what is true you know what is false. Once you know what is right you know what is wrong.

Violence and agression stem from these things. It is irrelevant that there are periods of calm.
Probably what we have at the minute is agnosticism then but I'm a positivist so the difference to me is entirely irrelevant. And everything professes truth, it matters the manner in which they profess it. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get medieval on anyone because I know I have a head and I'd rather it stayed on my shoulders. Narrow beliefs are those which become aggressive. Given that atheism merely denies the supernatural it's not exactly a narrow belief. Of course we can invent circumstances in which atheism could be aggressive I'm sure but realistically its history "in power" is a lot better than monotheistic religions.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 21:21   #19
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Of course we can invent circumstances in which atheism could be aggressive I'm sure but realistically its history "in power" is a lot better than monotheistic religions.
In the US, at least, they have found an agressive voice.

Soviet Union.

Peoples Republic of China

Cuba.

Yes, they have certainly had a better record in power.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 21:38   #20
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
In the US, at least, they have found an agressive voice.
Can you elaborate what you mean here? Are you suggesting the religious citizens of America are oppressed by it's non-religious ones?
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 21:48   #21
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Can you elaborate what you mean here? Are you suggesting the religious citizens of America are oppressed by it's non-religious ones?
does he have to in order for his point to be valid?

and do we think it might just be possible that aetheists arguing that aetheism is right are doing it because my assesment of the situation was correct?
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 21:52   #22
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
does he have to in order for his point to be valid?
He doesn't have to, no. I was interested in what he meant. His other countries don't really need explanation as there has been explicit repression of religious beliefs (and indeed, those examples came to my mind when the subject was raised). The US did not strike me as a country where the same was true.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 21:54   #23
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
He doesn't have to, no. I was interested in what he meant. His other countries don't really need explanation as there has been explicit repression of religious beliefs (and indeed, those examples came to my mind when the subject was raised). The US did not strike me as a country where the same was true.
does that mean that there is no aetheist aggression towards religious people in america?
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 22:16   #24
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
does that mean that there is no aetheist aggression towards religious people in america?
of course there is. however, compared to religious aggression towards atheism, there's nothing.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 22:26   #25
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
We seem to be wandering down a blind alley. If it were true that all religious people were nice and friendly and every atheist were a complete shite what does it matter?
nobody has suggested that.

not in the slightest.

however it is very interesting that the same form of aggression which I pointed out was endemic to monotheism is also present in aetheism.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 22:30   #26
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Re: Because Theology is important

Religion is bad, cause it isn't discussable. For one person its bull, for the other its a fact with out proof. (though that would make it a non-fact.) It still is true for the person and un-discussable. For this reason: Religion = war.

On the other hand, the "there is something but i don't know what" is even worst. I believe that man needs something bigger then life. If you take it away from religion. It will be replaced, by capitalism, and extremism in a non-religion form.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 22:54   #27
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
In the US, at least, they have found an agressive voice.

Soviet Union.

Peoples Republic of China

Cuba.

Yes, they have certainly had a better record in power.
Of course they've had a better record in power. Do you honestly think the percentage of atheist countries that have seriously oppressed theists exceeds the number of theistic countries that have seriously oppressed those who disagree with them? Listing examples doesn't actually make an argument, Rome or the Sassanid Empire are both polytheistic countries that persecuted people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
and do we think it might just be possible that aetheists arguing that aetheism is right are doing it because my assesment of the situation was correct?
Firstly AD HOMINEM. Secondly I'm not an atheist.

Quote:
I realise no one was suggesting that. An argument seemed to be developing as to who had committed more butchery, the unbelievers or the god botherers. Such a discussion would not have resulted in any worthwhile conclusion so I was heading it off at the pass.
Yeah, god knows looking at the historical consequences of certain beliefs is a terrible idea!

Amusingly enough while reading about religious persecution online I found that the worship of the ancient greek deities is still banned in greece itself.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 00:20   #28
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Can you elaborate what you mean here? Are you suggesting the religious citizens of America are oppressed by it's non-religious ones?
I was only referring to the following:

1. An agressive attitude toward the separation of church and state. A desire to eliminate any mention of god in public even when it might be considered a violation of the thiests freedom of speech.

2. More typically a very negative attitude on the part of the non-religious toward the religious (particularly toward Christians) of the type noticed in many posts on GD. "You believe in god. lol. You are stupid for doing so."

I tend to be non-Chrisitian and agnostic. I know that I don't know the answers to the universe.

Who is worse, prostlitizing religious folks or prostlitizing non-religioius folks? Don't know. I just know that they both can achieve a holier than thou attitude.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 07:00   #29
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I was only referring to the following:

1. An agressive attitude toward the separation of church and state. A desire to eliminate any mention of god in public even when it might be considered a violation of the thiests freedom of speech.

2. More typically a very negative attitude on the part of the non-religious toward the religious (particularly toward Christians) of the type noticed in many posts on GD. "You believe in god. lol. You are stupid for doing so."

I tend to be non-Chrisitian and agnostic. I know that I don't know the answers to the universe.

Who is worse, prostlitizing religious folks or prostlitizing non-religioius folks? Don't know. I just know that they both can achieve a holier than thou attitude.
Tis true. In American we have "In God We Trust" on our money. Non-religeous types are trying to remove that yet still willing to earn and spend the money freely. I personally have noticed alot of Neg-repping and general anti religeous sentiment toward me due to my personal beliefs and willingness to share them.

One in particular was a neg rep that read "ADAM AND STEVE!!!" when I had made no mention about same sex relationships. The repper felt inclined to attack me based on his or her beliefs and the fact that I was Christian not that I posted anything in particular. We all tend to be a bit intolerant at times and I know I have been that way myself.

It's amazing the shock I caused when I suggested on IRC that instead of multiple time zones that the world just have one clock and one time for everyone in the world. Think how hard it would be for the world to accept and adjust to that simple concept.

People choose to find contention amounst each other. Religeous and non-religeous intolerance are just an outward extenstion of this.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 07:25   #30
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Do you honestly think the percentage of atheist countries that have seriously oppressed theists exceeds the number of theistic countries that have seriously oppressed those who disagree with them?
Will you please stop trying to derail the argument into absurdity!

ONCE AGAIN I POINT OUT THAT no one is trying to suggest that.

Given how inteligent I know you are I can only assume that you are trolling and I'd like you to stop.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 07:50   #31
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Tis true. In American we have "In God We Trust" on our money. Non-religeous types are trying to remove that yet still willing to earn and spend the money freely.
you're an idiot
Quote:
I personally have noticed alot of Neg-repping and general anti religeous sentiment toward me due to my personal beliefs and willingness to share them.
you preach with the barest understanding of your own damn doctrine, of course you get heat for it. You're an idiot.
Quote:
It's amazing the shock I caused when I suggested on IRC that instead of multiple time zones that the world just have one clock and one time for everyone in the world. Think how hard it would be for the world to accept and adjust to that simple concept.
That's because time zones are there for a reason.
You're an idiot.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 09:40   #32
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
It's amazing the shock I caused when I suggested on IRC that instead of multiple time zones that the world just have one clock and one time for everyone in the world. Think how hard it would be for the world to accept and adjust to that simple concept.
Why would you introduce a single time zone?



PS Fine yahwe, to return to your original point - down with the self-contradicting old testament!











PPS Also down with homework.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 09:46   #33
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Tis true. In American we have "In God We Trust" on our money. Non-religeous types are trying to remove that yet still willing to earn and spend the money freely.
And how exactly do you propose that they avoid using money to live their lives? You can't pay by credit card everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Will you please stop trying to derail the argument into absurdity!

ONCE AGAIN I POINT OUT THAT no one is trying to suggest that.

Given how inteligent I know you are I can only assume that you are trolling and I'd like you to stop.
Don't accuse a reasonable reply to your argument of trolling. It's shit, you've been told this plenty of times before. I disagree with his attempt to compare a percentage (of atheist countries) with a number (of theistic countries), but that doesn't equal trolling, more an oversight on his part, perhaps created by an excess of Guinness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
you're an idiot
no u r

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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 14:55   #34
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Exclamation Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Tis true. In American we have "In God We Trust" on our money. Non-religeous types are trying to remove that yet still willing to earn and spend the money freely.
what

oh and yes, removing religious references from paper money is a sign of religious intolerance and an attack on freedom of worship. That evil liberal conspiracy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
It's amazing the shock I caused when I suggested on IRC that instead of multiple time zones that the world just have one clock and one time for everyone in the world. Think how hard it would be for the world to accept and adjust to that simple concept.
daddy, I heard that the sun is setting in Japan when it's rising in Europe. is that true?
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 16:43   #35
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Why would you introduce a single time zone?
The idea is that if everyone was on the same time we might find it easier to agree to a proper meeting time. I think that world and business leaders would find a single world time would simplify schedules. Yes the adjustment would be difficult but the benefits could be worth it. Obviously more discussion outsite of GD would be needed as the inhabitants here are a bit caged in their values, opinions, and beliefs.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 17:24   #36
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Re: Because Theology is important

I don't like the idea of many timezones, at least in the current world it seems hugely impractical to me. It would also make talking about times in different parts of the world virtually meaningless unless you were acquainted with exactly where it was in the world and which hours of the day that particular place normally had sunlight. For example, eight o clock pm in Japan is reasonably easy to understand for people not there. Early evening, basically. Whereas early evening in Japan could be 3 o clock with this system, or 12, or whatever. It would either lead to mass confusion or people speaking about time in terms of where the sun was when describing events. Which to me seems a step backwards.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 17:31   #37
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Re: Because Theology is important

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Originally Posted by Deepflow
I don't like the idea of many timezones, at least in the current world it seems hugely impractical to me. It would also make talking about times in different parts of the world virtually meaningless unless you were acquainted with exactly where it was in the world and which hours of the day that particular place normally had sunlight. For example, eight o clock pm in Japan is reasonably easy to understand for people not there. Early evening, basically. Whereas early evening in Japan could be 3 o clock with this system, or 12, or whatever. It would either lead to mass confusion or people speaking about time in terms of where the sun was when describing events. Which to me seems a step backwards.
Well one solution would be to have a standardised worldtime that is used for synchronisation (for instance the number of seconds passed since <some arbitrary starting point>), and then use local times for convenience. You'd then organise meetings with people in other countries by using the world-time, which theyd then translate into their own system. This is essentialy what we do now with GMT/UTC anyway, so eliminating local systems wouldnt really have any benefits and would just cause a lot of pointless hassle and confusion.

Last edited by Nodrog; 27 Jun 2006 at 17:39.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 18:19   #38
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
The idea is that if everyone was on the same time we might find it easier to agree to a proper meeting time. I think that world and business leaders would find a single world time would simplify schedules. Yes the adjustment would be difficult but the benefits could be worth it. Obviously more discussion outsite of GD would be needed as the inhabitants here are a bit caged in their values, opinions, and beliefs.
What benefits? It's just a clock

If you can't work out what time it is locally you're a ****ing moron who wouldn't have been of much use at a meeting anyways.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 20:08   #39
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Exclamation Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If you can't work out what time it is locally you're a ****ing moron who wouldn't have been of much use at a meeting anyways.
Isn't that usually the person (typically in upper management) who insists on having a meeting?
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 20:10   #40
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
What benefits? It's just a clock

If you can't work out what time it is locally you're a ****ing moron who wouldn't have been of much use at a meeting anyways.
What about those places that are 30 minutes off or 15 minutes off? In PA we all use GMT and have no problem with it but the idea of using GMT for the non PA world seems to be a really strange idea to most. We all have a mindset that what we already know is how it should be. If you grew up using one world standard time you would think separate times zones was a crazy idea.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 20:16   #41
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
And how exactly do you propose that they avoid using money to live their lives? You can't pay by credit card everywhere.
My point was that people object to the writing on the money but they are not convicted enough in their beliefs against God being on money to stop using the money. If enough people stopped using paper money with God printed on it they might actually get it changed. They have a choice to either use the money that has words they find offensive or they can choose not to. Seems to me that the usefullness of money is more important than the offense in words printed on the money.
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god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 20:21   #42
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
What about those places that are 30 minutes off or 15 minutes off? I
Those places only exist in your head.




you loon.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 20:21   #43
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
What about those places that are 30 minutes off or 15 minutes off? In PA we all use GMT and have no problem with it but the idea of using GMT for the non PA world seems to be a really strange idea to most..
How is this strange? GMT is pretty much the same as UT, which is used by many timekeeping services. There are other standardised time systems that get used in different contexts, such as TT or TCG in physics. If you have a multinational organisation, how is coordinating things by GMT more 'strange' than trying to abolish all local time systems?
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 20:24   #44
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Re: Because Theology is important

can I just get this straight - you want the whole world to use GMT or something? So instead of everyone not knowing what time it is in different parts of the world they would not know what part of the day it is?
"hello"
"i was asleep why are you calling me?"
"it's 6am in the afternoon"
"no here it's 6am at night"

You're a ****ing moron.

SUN RISES IN THE AM, IS AT IT'S PEAK AT MIDDAY THEN GOES DOWN IN THE PM.
THE CLOCKS DON'T CONTROL THE SUN.

it's like talking to a child
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 20:42   #45
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Re: Because Theology is important

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Originally Posted by Ste
Those places only exist in your head.




you loon.
Kabul is 4h30 ahead of GMT, apparently.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 21:02   #46
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
My point was that people object to the writing on the money but they are not convicted enough in their beliefs against God being on money to stop using the money. If enough people stopped using paper money with God printed on it they might actually get it changed. They have a choice to either use the money that has words they find offensive or they can choose not to. Seems to me that the usefullness of money is more important than the offense in words printed on the money.
So you're basically asking those with a theological belief (atheism) to alter their conduct in a way totally incompatible with Western society? That's absurd. In the United States, there is no choice but to use paper money at some point in your life. Capitalism at the individual level relies on money to function, and America is a Western capitalist society. They would not be able to conventionally live without using that money (ignoring Internet shopping, etc).


I suppose you'd have no problem with a society burning Christians at the stake if it outlawed their religion?
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 21:30   #47
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
So you're basically asking those with a theological belief (atheism) to alter their conduct in a way totally incompatible with Western society? That's absurd. In the United States, there is no choice but to use paper money at some point in your life. Capitalism at the individual level relies on money to function, and America is a Western capitalist society. They would not be able to conventionally live without using that money (ignoring Internet shopping, etc).
My point is that their outrage of God being printed on money is not as great as their need to use the money. What I am saying is that the principle of the matter is not strong enough to convince them to stop using the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I suppose you'd have no problem with a society burning Christians at the stake if it outlawed their religion?
Well I would have a problem with it but I don't live in the Phillipeans where this sort of thing is actually taking place.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 22:27   #48
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Exclamation Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
My point is that their outrage of God being printed on money is not as great as their need to use the money. What I am saying is that the principle of the matter is not strong enough to convince them to stop using the money.
Well there are not a lot of alternative currencies available; although I should mention that I can go 2-3 weeks purely on credit cards alone. \o/

I guess the fact that I can only go a few hours without eating food means that my opposition to agricultural subsidies isn't as principled as I'd thought.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 23:05   #49
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
My point is that their outrage of God being printed on money is not as great as their need to use the money. What I am saying is that the principle of the matter is not strong enough to convince them to stop using the money.

Well I would have a problem with it but I don't live in the Phillipeans where this sort of thing is actually taking place.
Ah, so you have no sympathy or care for Fillipino Christians?

Just remember:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.


-Pastor Martin Niemöller


If you love your fellow Christian then you should be doing whatever you can to help these people in need. In fact, what about Chinese Christians as well? They don't have such a great time of it over in the Peoples' Republic.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 23:25   #50
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Re: Because Theology is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
What about those places that are 30 minutes off or 15 minutes off? In PA we all use GMT and have no problem with it but the idea of using GMT for the non PA world seems to be a really strange idea to most. We all have a mindset that what we already know is how it should be.
What about those places? I'm sure it's not incredibly difficult for everyone who lives there to know they're half an hour off the pace or whatever. It's not exactly a monumental hazard in their lives. Also I've never heard of anywhere fifteen minutes off standard time.

Quote:
If you grew up using one world standard time you would think separate times zones was a crazy idea.
I'm not saying your idea is crazy, I'm saying it's pointless.

That said ste is slightly wrong when he says
Quote:
SUN RISES IN THE AM, IS AT IT'S PEAK AT MIDDAY THEN GOES DOWN IN THE PM.
THE CLOCKS DON'T CONTROL THE SUN.
as I'm sure our northerly northern mcnorth living friends can illuminate us

Quote:
My point is that their outrage of God being printed on money is not as great as their need to use the money. What I am saying is that the principle of the matter is not strong enough to convince them to stop using the money.
If all money came with pictures of rapists on it would everyone refuse to use money? Er no, they'd just have new notes printed with different images. It's not rocket science.
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