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10 Nov 2005, 19:29
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: Shakespeare
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
In actual fact, Shakespeare is mostly written in modern english. The syntax is often confusing, but reading Macbeth is hardly an exercise in translation (see Beowulf).
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Well no, but its still awkward to read and its unclear what value the works of Shakespeare have over and above more modern/accessible literature like (eg) Lolita, The Trial, Catch 22, etc. I suspect that most people dislike studying Shakespeare in school (even if they go on to appreciate his works in later life), and there are probably decent reasons for this.
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10 Nov 2005, 19:39
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#52
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Shakespeare
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
You'll have no trouble translating this for us then will you Deepflow? You Wunderkind you!
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When I read that it reminded me of Sigrid.
As to Shakespear:
Not long ago I had to attend a hearing at a prison and I was a little early. At this particular prison they house the young murderers who are over 14 years of age but not yet 18 years of age. They are housed seperately from the adult prisoners and are required to go to school so that they can be educated prisoners just in case they ever get out of prison.
At any rate, I was killing time waiting for my hearing to begin and I ran into an individual who was the English teacher for the young miscreants. I struck up a conversation with her and was surprised (actually fairly shocked) when she began to tell me about her experiences in prison with Shakespeare.
She told me that she had decided to present the infant felons with "Hamlet," thinking that it was unlikely that they would stand for it but also thinking that it would be interesting to find out. She was shocked when the class took to the play like fish to water. They loved it and made many connections between what went on in the play and their lives. The most notable for finding parallels in "Hamlet" and their lives were the inner city gang members.
So I would say that if poverty-sticken, inner-city, black and hispanic youths found universal meaning in Shakespeare, then I think there are still a few lessons to be learned from the Bard.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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10 Nov 2005, 20:18
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#53
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: Shakespeare
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Catch 22
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I read that over the summer and really enjoyed it.
However it was (purposefully) confusing throughout and I know plenty of people who couldn't get past the first few chapters.
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10 Nov 2005, 20:32
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#54
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Shakespeare
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Catch 22, .
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Major Major Major
Colonel Korn
General Schelskopf
Natley
Natley's Whore
golden
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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10 Nov 2005, 20:46
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#55
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Next goal wins!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: London
Posts: 5,406
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Re: Shakespeare
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Major Major Major
Colonel Korn
General Schelskopf
Natley
Natley's Whore
golden
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Incidentally, Heller references Shakespeare in the chapter where Major Major Major is introduced.
[/trying to make myself look well read]
__________________
bastard bastard bastard bastard
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11 Nov 2005, 12:08
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#56
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I dunno...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: manchester
Posts: 1,502
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Re: Shakespeare
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
I read that over the summer and really enjoyed it.
However it was (purposefully) confusing throughout and I know plenty of people who couldn't get past the first few chapters.
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Strangely, I found Catch-22 more confusing and less rewarding than any Shakespeare I have read.
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11 Nov 2005, 15:20
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,174
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Re: Shakespeare
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
he's starring in books now ?
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We watched the film aswell
*sigh*
__________________
If one person is in delusion, they're called insane.
If many people are in delusion, it's called a religion.
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11 Nov 2005, 15:42
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#58
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Shakespeare
Two of the greatest books that I've read are East of Eden and the Grapes of Wrath. My personal favourites of 20th century literature.
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Finally free!
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11 Nov 2005, 15:58
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#59
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Shakespeare
If you want children to expand their knowledge of english literature there are better ways of doing it than focussing in on one particular text. Read maybe a dozen over the space of two or three years. Homer, Milton, Shakespeare, Dante, Plato, Locke, Virgil, Plutarch, Hobbes, Erasmus, Solzhenitsyn, Ibsen, Dickens, Samuel Johnson, Bacon, Voltaire, Goethe, James, Hemingway, Beckett, Eliot, Proust and Joyce. That should do to start with. And for god's sake if it was written as a play go and see the ****ing play.
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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11 Nov 2005, 16:21
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#60
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Vermin Supreme
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,280
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Re: Shakespeare
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Major Major Major
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wasn't he actually major major major major (by some arbitrary point in time)?
anyway, some do have a point here. Why don't kids watch the plays instead?
i remember in high school reading Our Town, The Crucible, Death of a Salesman, 12 Angry Men, etc. 'gee, if only there was a way to spend 10X as much time on this without getting the real effect'
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11 Nov 2005, 20:39
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#61
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I dunno...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: manchester
Posts: 1,502
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Re: Shakespeare
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If you want children to expand their knowledge of english literature there are better ways of doing it than focussing in on one particular text. Read maybe a dozen over the space of two or three years. Homer, Milton, Shakespeare, Dante, Plato, Locke, Virgil, Plutarch, Hobbes, Erasmus, Solzhenitsyn, Ibsen, Dickens, Samuel Johnson, Bacon, Voltaire, Goethe, James, Hemingway, Beckett, Eliot, Proust and Joyce. That should do to start with. And for god's sake if it was written as a play go and see the ****ing play.
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I have a feeling there would be some feminists/women somewhere a little pissed off.
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11 Nov 2005, 20:43
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: Shakespeare
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If you want children to expand their knowledge of english literature there are better ways of doing it than focussing in on one particular text. Read maybe a dozen over the space of two or three years. Homer, Milton, Shakespeare, Dante, Plato, Locke, Virgil, Plutarch, Hobbes, Erasmus, Solzhenitsyn, Ibsen, Dickens, Samuel Johnson, Bacon, Voltaire, Goethe, James, Hemingway, Beckett, Eliot, Proust and Joyce. That should do to start with. And for god's sake if it was written as a play go and see the ****ing play.
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How would reading Dante, Homer and Virgil expand their knowledge of English literature
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11 Nov 2005, 22:25
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#63
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Shakespeare
I got carried away. I don't really believe in nationalism in art. Or women for that matter.
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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