What happens to us when we die?

[s|k]

Seriously. Consciouness just goes *poof* ?

You ever love someone so much you wish that death wouldn't separate you from them?

I'm going to bed now. GN

[Apothos]

You get raped by the necrophiliac undertaker, all the while watching in some kind of "spirit"-form, unable to do anything about it.

[SilverSmoke]

"My only fear of death is reincarnation"


Oh Tupac

[Appocomaster]

It depends. I've encountered quite a few views.
On the one hand, one of my ultra sciency friends said that conciousness is caused by vibrations in the dimensions of string theory over 4 (for those that don't know, there's 11). This was what he thought of as "conciousness" or "spirit". Therefore when we die, that's it. In a way I hope he's right, or that we can get ASBO's when we get to "heaven", as he was quite irritating sometimes.
On the other hand, I know people who are very much into spiritual stuff and feel that they can contact the "spirit world" whenever they want. No cookies for guessing where they think they're going to go. I think you'll find most people have some sort of nagging feeling there might be a "spiritual world" and that that's where we all end up, or something like that.

However, it could be connected to what you believe in some ways, in which case we a) have to try and convince everyone on GD that you just die (or go to hell unless you're nice) or b) hope that there's no genetalia when we get to heaven .

Personally, I believe that most/all religions have got it right to some extent, but then they want to go and build on it and humanise it, and so they come up with laws and morals and rules and make it into one big society. All their talking about their God(s) is making reference to one big spiritual "thing" outside of space/time made up of everyone's spirits, and the spirits sort of come here (i.e. Earth) to experience things. When they die, they go back "home" and do the equilvent of show everyone their holiday photos, only with far better detail. You can occasionally get in contact with it ("postcard") and occasionally get replies (deja vu anyone?).
I also believe the subconcious / concious is pretty powerful, I mean hey it's part of this almightly blob of spiritual energy stuff. People's "luck" etc stems from them affecting to a small extent things around them by the way they think and their expectations. Hence the ideas of "if you give good things out, you get good things back [I don't know if anal sex is included in this...:P]". This is why people get together and pray - sort of like a "Captain Planet" move (i.e. "by your powers combined....."), as they can change more collectively. It also covers the ideas of people who sit and concentrate on getting better and actually "cure" problems that doctors have written off, and the whole "sugar pill / real pill" treatment and how the effects are similar - you expect to get better because the man in the white coat has told you he's given you these special pills to make you better.
Oh, and to answer the origional question if you don't think I have already, yes part of us (obviously the non physical part) goes back to the blob.

[Note: Where does hell fit in? Satan was created from some of the pagan gods to alienate paganism from Christianity when paganism was phased out and Christianity was phased in in Rome probably around 200-300AD from what I remember. This didn't stop Christians from stealing all the pagan places of worship as their own . Yes, I read Da Vinci Code-type books sometimes.]

[Phalon]

You go to Heaven where God, Jesus Christ our Saviour and all the angels spend eternity lamenting you with Hymms, parables and proverbs and everyone lives foreverer in eternal bliss.

At least someone wrote it in a book 2 millenia ago so it must be true.

[Phalon]

Oh, and if you die of aids Jesus doesn't love you.

[KaneED]

balls

[roadrunner_0]

nothing, life is the ultimate WYSIWYG

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by s|k

Seriously. Consciouness just goes *poof* ?

Yes. Everything else is just wishful thinking.

[KoeN]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Yes. Everything else is just wishful thinking.

heh.

well not for me. 'living forever', wherever it may be, is the worst thing i can imagine.

[Knight Theamion]

you'll sleep without dreaming or ever waking up

in other words: NOTHING WILL HAPPEN, SINCE YOU WON'T NOTICE A THING

you're dead, it's over, finito

[Tomkat]

You really think we're so amazing and spectacular that we deserve some form of afterlife?

Oh dear.

[Appocomaster]

I forgot this was GD and posted something meaningful :S silly me

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

I forgot this was GD and posted something meaningful :S silly me

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[s|k]

Okay okay. I try to imagine death and I have three ways to imagine it. One is by thinking of trying to remember the time before I was born - I can't, theres nothing there and in fact I've sort of already have been dead, and already know what it's like. I mean where was I before I was born and why is that any less of an interesting question that what happens after death.

The second way is to consider sleep. I mean, it's not death, because you dream, and your head still does thinking to some degree. However, it is such huge change in conciousness and we do it everyday for the most part. Think of it, how do you shut your brain off and how are you shutting it back on and wtf happened to your 'consciouness' in between? You just spent 8-5 hours existing really without a conciousness. I've tried to 'catch' (try to remember it) my self falling asleep and I managed to actually do it once - it felt like I was sucked into some thing very powerful and scary.

The third way it to imagine I have an eye on the back of my head and try to see with it. Now I don't have a third eye, and so I see nothing. What becomes obvious is the "border" around my field of vision, and what is beyond it? Is it blackness? No, it's nothing at all. I can't see what's behind me, but it's not a blank screen with nothing on it. I actually see 'nothing' behind me. Does that make sense?

So in some way there is precedence in our experience for 'nothing' and what death may be like. My problem is 'why' and especially 'why me.' The ego is so incredibly powerful and demanding in it's belief of being 'special' somehow. Think of the odds of you being here. The myriad of choices your ancestors have made and if any of them had made a even slighly different choice in their life then you wouldn't be here. Think of the thousands of sperms, and if that one that made it hadn't, or another had, then you wouldn't be here, and now think of all of your ancestors and all of the sperm that could have made it instead of those that did, the odds are incredible. But here you are. Meant to be?

Then the response I think of is, well if not me it would be someone else, and then how can that be special when someone would indeed be here.

[pablissimo]

I imagine it will be like when you start drifting off to sleep when you're sat up, that moment of unconsciousness when you allow your head to fall before you wake back up and do the whole 'snappy neck' movement.

[Nadar]

You're body will be 'dead', but your spirit will still stay inside the body. You can see and hear everything peoples around you do and say. When they bury you you're trapped in a damn coffin forever! You try to scream "I'm alive I'm alive" when at the funeral, but they can't hear you and buries you 3m below ground where it's cold, dark and smelly. Forever :eek:

That's my theory, honestly! ..

[Phalon]

what about if they hack you up and canabalise you then?

[Nadar]

That wouldn't be much fun

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Phalon

At least someone wrote it in a book 2 millenia ago so it must be true.

There were books that early? Thought they wrote on papyrus etc..

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Nadar

That wouldn't be much fun

Right, because being burried alive and decomposing over several years is a blast. Pass the ketchup!

[djbass]

I pretty much follow science on this one. Nothing more than rapidly dwindling electrical energy and neuron misfirings that potentially could lead to hallucinations of an afterlife shortly before neo-cortical death.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by s|k

Okay okay. I try to imagine death and I have three ways to imagine it. One is by thinking of trying to remember the time before I was born - I can't, theres nothing there and in fact I've sort of already have been dead, and already know what it's like. I mean where was I before I was born and why is that any less of an interesting question that what happens after death.

I never thought of that before. No one really remembers things soon after thy're born I guess because their conciousness isn't fully developed - I think you learn a lot more and it goes almost straight into your subconcious when you're very small (or what becomes your subconcious).

The second way is to consider sleep. I mean, it's not death, because you dream, and your head still does thinking to some degree. However, it is such huge change in conciousness and we do it everyday for the most part. Think of it, how do you shut your brain off and how are you shutting it back on and wtf happened to your 'consciouness' in between? You just spent 8-5 hours existing really without a conciousness. I've tried to 'catch' (try to remember it) my self falling asleep and I managed to actually do it once - it felt like I was sucked into some thing very powerful and scary.

You can actually become concious in dreams. It's hard to learn to do, and currently I can only really do it when the dream turns bad and I think "hey, I'm in control, this dream sucks, I want to wake up". Apparently it is possible to become concious in dreams with lots of practice, and actually sort of move around in the "dream world". It sounds sort of cool.
I think of dreaming sort of like this:
we walk around all day, and our senses go (via subconcious filtering) straight into the brain. We also get ideas and so on with this sense data. However, we can't "process it" all at once, so we need to sleep. When we sleep, our (subconcious) mind processes all this information and plays with it a bit, and sort of interacts it with other information. It then stores it away according to some complicated process which we don't really understand, but if we poke our subconcious hard enough with a stick we can access. It's also probably related to thought patterns and how memories are related to each other - sometimes it seems to be in quite a random way, but there are still links there.
I'm not sure if death would be more with the concious or the subconcious in control, or if they're both sort of merged. It'll be interesting to find out, I guess

The third way it to imagine I have an eye on the back of my head and try to see with it. Now I don't have a third eye, and so I see nothing. What becomes obvious is the "border" around my field of vision, and what is beyond it? Is it blackness? No, it's nothing at all. I can't see what's behind me, but it's not a blank screen with nothing on it. I actually see 'nothing' behind me. Does that make sense?

I keep rereading it, and feeling I sort of get what you mean, but don't. Are you saying that although you can't see anything outside of the borders of your vision, you know things are there and not blank, as they otherwise appear?

So in some way there is precedence in our experience for 'nothing' and what death may be like. My problem is 'why' and especially 'why me.' The ego is so incredibly powerful and demanding in it's belief of being 'special' somehow. Think of the odds of you being here. The myriad of choices your ancestors have made and if any of them had made a even slighly different choice in their life then you wouldn't be here. Think of the thousands of sperms, and if that one that made it hadn't, or another had, then you wouldn't be here, and now think of all of your ancestors and all of the sperm that could have made it instead of those that did, the odds are incredible. But here you are. Meant to be?
Then the response I think of is, well if not me it would be someone else, and then how can that be special when someone would indeed be here.

I think that the ego is demanding and feel it's special because otherwise it's easy to get overwhelmed by the scale. Imagine you're as tall as the Empire State Building. Imagine barely seeing an ant in front of you. To the universe, you're not even that ant in scale. An ant is probably a solar system compared to what you are. You're here with a probability of trillions to one. Why would someone care about you?
It's probably because of social reassurance and so on that people survive and do what they do. Very few people can live happily on their own without much contact with others.
Some people justify being special with the "unique" argument - everyone is unique and so therefore special.
Personally I'm constantly amazed that the human race works as well as it does.
I mean for example, take roads. How do they work? So many individual people, all driving cars and so on they have control over to some degree, all roughly conforming to semi-enforced laws, and so on. If people decide to go "insane", just a few, it'd cause lots of problems. Why does everyone conform to all the rules? Makes me scared to drive sometimes .

[djbass]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

You can actually become concious in dreams. It's hard to learn to do, and currently I can only really do it when the dream turns bad and I think "hey, I'm in control, this dream sucks, I want to wake up". Apparently it is possible to become concious in dreams with lots of practice, and actually sort of move around in the "dream world". It sounds sort of cool.
I think of dreaming sort of like this:
we walk around all day, and our senses go (via subconcious filtering) straight into the brain. We also get ideas and so on with this sense data. However, we can't "process it" all at once, so we need to sleep. When we sleep, our (subconcious) mind processes all this information and plays with it a bit, and sort of interacts it with other information. It then stores it away according to some complicated process which we don't really understand, but if we poke our subconcious hard enough with a stick we can access. It's also probably related to thought patterns and how memories are related to each other - sometimes it seems to be in quite a random way, but there are still links there.
I'm not sure if death would be more with the concious or the subconcious in control, or if they're both sort of merged. It'll be interesting to find out, I guess

Lucid dreaming is something I've only achieved twice. The first time I simply imagined myself with the ability to fly, and spend the entire dream just flying everywhere I could, the experience in general of total freedom was awesome. The second time I achieved this, my more male tendancies took over and I pretty much went and shagged every hot female I had a fancy for at the time, sadly just when I was at a peak my subconcious wrestled control back and that was the end of that.

I recall reading once that part of the sleeping process is to store things into long-term memory, that in a study it was found people who had been deprived of sleep didn't have as good long-term memory as those who slept regurlarly. Also, in another artical it was stated that we never actually forget things at all, that every experience we have ever had is stored away, but we lose the ability to access those memories.

I once formed a theory of my own. That the brain holds an incredible amount of information. That given a long enough timeline (assuming you were to live past the average age of a human) it must be possible to eventually exceed that limit. What would happen then? I then pondered the possibility that maybe we already do, and that is what results in memory loss, when the brain can no longer store more information, it deletes if you like old or irrelevant data to make room for newer data.

I keep rereading it, and feeling I sort of get what you mean, but don't. Are you saying that although you can't see anything outside of the borders of your vision, you know things are there and not blank, as they otherwise appear?

Actually, what you describe does exist. I have an interesting documentary that I was telling SI about at one stage, where they examine people with really abnormal brain function. One of the cases revolved around a guy that had lost all vision in one eye, yet he was still able to sense the direction of movement of objects in front of the eye, even though he couldn't actually see them. Apparently our eyes sense not only visual information, but also information relating to movement that the brain uses to focus out interest on only objects of importance instead of trying to process everything we see all at once.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by djbass

Lucid dreaming is something I've only achieved twice. The first time I simply imagined myself with the ability to fly, and spend the entire dream just flying everywhere I could, the experience in general of total freedom was awesome. The second time I achieved this, my more male tendancies took over and I pretty much went and shagged every hot female I had a fancy for at the time, sadly just when I was at a peak my subconcious wrestled control back and that was the end of that.

Still twice more than me. Sounds fun, I really want to have a go at it

I once formed a theory of my own. That the brain holds an incredible amount of information. That given a long enough timeline (assuming you were to live past the average age of a human) it must be possible to eventually exceed that limit. What would happen then? I then pondered the possibility that maybe we already do, and that is what results in memory loss, when the brain can no longer store more information, it deletes if you like old or irrelevant data to make room for newer data.

yes, this may well be true.

Actually, what you describe does exist. I have an interesting documentary that I was telling SI about at one stage, where they examine people with really abnormal brain function. One of the cases revolved around a guy that had lost all vision in one eye, yet he was still able to sense the direction of movement of objects in front of the eye, even though he couldn't actually see them. Apparently our eyes sense not only visual information, but also information relating to movement that the brain uses to focus out interest on only objects of importance instead of trying to process everything we see all at once.

I heard of something similar.
An experience was conducted with blind people (I can't remember exactly why they were blind - maybe it was a certain part of the brain relating to vision was damaged). A pen with a light on the end was held somewhere in front of them, and they were told to reach out to it. After the "er, I'm blind, how am I meant to reach for it?" stuff, the majority of people actually reached for the pen quite a few times.
I believe that someone then went on to conclude something similar (subconcious / concious vision) and how the subconcious vision was conducted near the base of the brain, while the "normal" vision is elsewhere (in the front or something, I can't remember). Anyway, an example of this is when people drive alot. They can be singing and talking and working on stuff, and what's actually happening is their subconcious is "watching the road" while their concious brain does stuff. When something changes that needs the person's attention, the subconcious does a "heads up" and sort of grabs the concious attention, so that the person can react to it and sort it out.
But yes, the subconcious probably stores all the things we aren't really paying attention for processing later.

[Thermodynamics]

Lots of reading done...

I have managed to achieve what Apocco and DJBass have described on a few occassions. It is usually when I'm having an unpleasant dream that I decide thats that and go about my busniess. Other times include doing things I usually wouldn't= eg. smacking the f*** out of somebody I dont like or something abit more similar to what DJBass descirbes.

I'm an atheist, a budding mathematician [I like to think] so I'm sure you can all guess where my beliefs lie. I once came to the conclusion, after noticing that religion and afterlife [heaven, hell, re-incarnation] seem to go hand-in-hand, with generally good consquences for the saints among us and less favourable outcomes for the sinners. I concluded that an "afterlife" was the brainchild of those many a millenia ago, who could not accept the fact that they will die, their thoughts, feelings, ,memories, gone. Nothing. In fact I find it difficult to comprehend let alone accept. And from thus came the guiding principle that those oof us who lead "good lives" shall see a better afterlife etc.





Accepting your own mortality is the first step towards uderstanding your exsistence.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

It depends. I've encountered quite a few views.
On the one hand, one of my ultra sciency friends said that conciousness is caused by vibrations in the dimensions of string theory over 4 (for those that don't know, there's 11)

pop science scores another resounding victory.

[Tomkat]

Why does there need to be a heaven or a hell? Or indeed any form of afterlife?

There doesn't.

You just want there to be, because you can't understand that all the knowledge you have taken in, all the relationships you have formed, all the things you have done, will be forgotten by yourself once you die, and eventually forgotten by others as they die.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

pop science scores another resounding victory.

Gordon criticises somebody (who didn't even claim a theory as their own), without backing up his argument.

He should write a book on "looking clever on the internet".

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

An experience was conducted with blind people (I can't remember exactly why they were blind - maybe it was a certain part of the brain relating to vision was damaged). A pen with a light on the end was held somewhere in front of them, and they were told to reach out to it. After the "er, I'm blind, how am I meant to reach for it?" stuff, the majority of people actually reached for the pen quite a few times. .

This is a special condition known as blindsight, different to 'normal' blindness. Another odd semi-related phenomenon is blindness denial, where people are 'blind', yet 'dont realise it'.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

pop science scores another resounding victory.

the boy did like his science. Our Philosophy lessons had quite the pop. science undertone for a while, before we rambled off onto Philosophy of the Mind. At least the extra dimensions have some use in his views instead of scientists guessing they're just wrapped up very small

[Marilyn Manson]

Apparently no one knows what happens when you die.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Apparently no one knows what happens when you die.

internet funeral in #funeral

[Marilyn Manson]

Funeral in #Carpathia.



I can't believe I typed that.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

This is a special condition known as blindsight, different to 'normal' blindness. Another odd semi-related phenomenon is blindness denial, where people are 'blind', yet 'dont realise it'.

Yes, I was referring to blindsight, I think (having googled and looked here quickly)

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Apparently no one knows what happens when you die.

If someone told you they did, would you believe them? Many claim to know there's an afterlife, because they know that there's something else, but how many believe them? Others believe in science and so on.
More generally, how and why do people actually change their belief system from one thing to another? Short of "life-altering experiences", where people get zapped and suddenly become monks etc, it's very rare you see someone say "good point, I'm going to ditch all my current beliefs and pretty much agree with yours now"

Originally Posted by Nodrog

internet funeral in #funeral

yes, a final connection reset by peer, until eventually even /whowas doesn't work any more

[Yahwe]

I could tell you.






but you're not going to like it.

[Sarina_Joy]

I like to think we rot in the ground.



I may be wrong.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

I could tell you.






but you're not going to like it.

Some people should find out for themselves to be honest.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

Some people should find out for themselves to be honest.

'I even buried Hans with his favourite hockey sticks'

[Phil^]

You decompose

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by djbass

Lucid dreaming is something I've only achieved twice. The first time I simply imagined myself with the ability to fly, and spend the entire dream just flying everywhere I could, the experience in general of total freedom was awesome. The second time I achieved this, my more male tendancies took over and I pretty much went and shagged every hot female I had a fancy for at the time, sadly just when I was at a peak my subconcious wrestled control back and that was the end of that.

i've actually been able to control my dreams quite a few times. It happens when i'm asleep, but only just. Most* of them were more like your second experiance though.








*all

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Phil^

You decompose

Yup. But becouse of how poluted we are, it said to take 80 years instead of 40.

[I am Idler]

Heaven would be one eternal houseparty on acid

[Nusselt]

Well my body will rot obviously, in terms of consiciousness i don't know why everyone is jumping on a 'science bandwagon' that says you go 'poof' (an eternity of homosexuality?) as science has absolutely no theory on the subject. Conciousness may well be linked to string theory, it may not, as jakiri would point out there isn't even any evidence specifically to support string theory. Science is not a 'thing' that sits in the corner muttering how much it does or doesn't believe in something, its a way of thinking that to date hasn't understood what is meant by 'life' 'conciousness' 'self-aware'.

Science is a method of non-dogmatic, structured and rigorous understanding. Claims using its name shouldn't be made when its methodology hasn't been used to understand the subject at hand. If anyone tells you that it is stupid or wishful to think there is something beyond death and they put 'science' in there, tell them they're being as idiotic as fervous religious scholars who start pointing to how their beliefs co-incide with the new fangled discovery of 'science'.

I went to a rodney brooks lecture a few years back (incidentally i think kismet is a waste of time) and he talked abit about it, he said he was starting to do research on the difference between matter that is 'alive' and 'not alive' and ive heard a few people going in that direction, thats just starting! Science and the scientific method have not been used to understand consciousness and no present theories for the nature of the universe can be used to explain life. Those theories are just 'mapping out' what the universe actually is! and we can't even get them to correlate!.

For what its worth, i think the local reversing of entropy that seems to occur in every living thing and specifically in the human brain is so incredible and so extraordinary when compared to the overwhelming majority of matter that we see, that i believe there to be 'something' beyond this 'life'. Maybe not a nirvana or a heaven, but something.

We are the product of the big bang just like the universe we see around us, we are the universe trying to understand itself.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Nusselt

For what its worth, i think the local reversing of entropy that seems to occur in every living thing

On a micro scale that's true, but all it's all due in thanks to Helios who will die one day. Black holes reverse entropy as well(?) and who knows wtf dark matter is so:

so extraordinary when compared to the overwhelming majority of matter that we see

it's good that you qualified with 'see' because dark matter makes up the bulk of the universe and who knows what it's doing.

[Deffeh]

i dont know, i just hope i dont fear it when it comes. I hope the "acceptance" and "resignation" you hear old people talk about death are true, and not the oldest lie ever conceived, the greatest gift that the old can give us, trying to make us live our lives without the shadow every day.

[Dace]

When you die somebody posts on an internet forum you usually hang out on telling the folk that you knew there that you were dead but nobody believes them BECAUSE IT'S ALL BEEN DONE BEFORE!

[Nusselt]

Originally Posted by s|k

On a micro scale that's true, but all it's all due in thanks to Helios who will die one day.

what?

Originally Posted by s|k

and who knows wtf dark matter is so:
it's good that you qualified with 'see' because dark matter makes up the bulk of the universe and who knows what it's doing.

dark matter is a term to refer to a hypothesis which would explain why stars orbit within the galaxy in the manner they do. It isn't anything more than that.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Nusselt

what?

The sun. There is life on earth because of the Sun's energy. Surly you'd know who Helios was with all your astronomy knowledge; Copernicus's 'heliocentric' model should have given you a clue. Life is organizing matter, reversing entropy, that's true. In the grand scale of things, it's only within the scope of the life of the Sun that this happens. When the sun goes, the work of life is gone as well.

dark matter is a term to refer to a hypothesis which would explain why stars orbit within the galaxy in the manner they do. It isn't anything more than that.

That's misleading. I took Astronomy in college. I volunteered one summer at the Mauna Kea Observatories . While all the evidence for dark matter is based on gravity, the idea that's it's simply a matter of us not understanding gravity is one of many possibilities.. And all I said is we don't know, you however, presume to know.

Hi

[Nusselt]

Originally Posted by s|k

The sun. There is life on earth because of the Sun's energy. Surly you'd know who Helios was with all your astronomy knowledge; Copernicus's 'heliocentric' model should have given you a clue. Life is organizing matter, reversing entropy, that's true. In the grand scale of things, it's only within the scope of the life of the Sun that this happens. When the sun goes, the work of life is gone as well.

I know, but i don't know what that has to do with what i originally posted. Besides life (as we know it) needs heat and oxygen. There are sources other than the sun.

Originally Posted by s|k

That's misleading. I took Astronomy in college. I volunteered one summer at the Mauna Kea Observatories . While all the evidence for dark matter is based on gravity, the idea that's it's simply a matter of us not understanding gravity is one of many possibilities.. And all I said is we don't know, you however, presume to know.

Hi

Darkmatter is a hypothesis, im not sure what else to say. I don't see why its misleading to call it thus.