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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 18:27   #1
Mistwraith
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changing the age of legal smoking

http://www.tobaccoagechange.co.uk/


Not the most widely publised change as yet, but i'm sure the spam will appear eventually, i really hope so, because almost no-one knows about it apart from retailers.


looking forward to ID'ing teenagers who already smoke and are going through nicotine withdrawl and getting abused by em when they have no proof !

JOYS!
i should get danger pay !
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 18:31   #2
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

It's going to be great. The publicity will ramp up about a month before I guess, as happened with the public places ban. 16/17 year olds who smoke are ****ed!
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 18:31   #3
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

No ****ing way.
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 19:03   #4
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by That site
The importance of this is clear when you realise that one in two lifelong smokers will be killed by their addiction.
The other lives forever!
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 19:14   #5
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

lol at all the 15 - 16 year old that think they're 'ard having a fag
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 19:27   #6
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Dont see the big problem, they did the same here 10 years or so ago.
If they really want cigarettes, this wont stop them.

I smoke myself and have done so for 15 years or so, but I dont mind limits set to 18 for smoking, or for that matter 20 for alcohol or 20-25 for driving.
Give the world most rules, cause people are in general retarded and need to be restricted by the mighty pen!
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 21:41   #7
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

I'm not sceptical, i'm just a lawyer.

the health act 2006 said:

13 Power to amend age for sale of tobacco etc.
(1) The Secretary of State may from time to time by order amend the following
enactments by substituting, in each place where a person’s age is specified, a
different age specified in the order—
(a) section 7 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 (c. 12) (sale of
tobacco etc. to persons under 16),
(b) section 4 of the Children and Young Persons (Protection from Tobacco)
Act 1991 (c. 23) (display of warning statements in retail premises and
on vending machines).
(2) But the age specified in an order under subsection (1) may not be lower than 16
or higher than 18.

I am unaware of any "order by the secretary of state" i.e. a relevant statutory instrument which has so far been enacted.

I will say candidly that it would not surprise me if one existed - no one reads statutory instruments ... no one

However i would expect more publicity if one were passed - what else is the media for?
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 21:47   #8
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Stage One (May – June 2007)
In this stage the Department of Health has engaged with the retail industry, health groups, compliance organisations, and the accredited proof of age schemes, to find the best ways to build awareness amongst their membership.

Stage Two (July 2007)
Further engagement with the groups mentioned above, as well as schools, colleges and youth organisations is taking place in stage two. In addition media relations (both trade and consumer media) has begun, the website has been launched and a mailing has been sent to retailers with higher volumes of 16-17 year old customers.

Stage Three (August – September 2007)
A second mailing will be sent out in August to over 100,000 retailers in England and Wales. This will include a toolkit and signage, which will both be available to download from this website at the end of August. Work with stakeholder organisations and media relations will continue, and activity targeting teenagers will commence, including the launch of a dedicated website, online advertising and work with consumer magazines.

Stage Four (September – October 2007)
This stage of the campaign will focus on reminding retailers and teenagers of the change in the law. An outdoor poster advertising campaign will launch in September at targeted locations, including local convenience stores where teenagers buy cigarettes. Partner organisations are also likely to be carrying out activity during stages three and four, including the dissemination of materials to retail outlets by the "No ID, No Sale" team
.


that from that site on the campiagn bit

i heard about it in May from a trade magazine cos i work in an off licence , we've had no word from head office about the change at all!
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 21:49   #9
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
However i would expect more publicity if one were passed - what else is the media for?
Big breasted Arian women?
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 21:51   #10
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistwraith
.


that from that site on the campiagn bit

i heard about it in May from a trade magazine cos i work in an off licence , we've had no word from head office about the change at all!

yeah what i am asking for is a statutory instrument. they look like mini acts of parliament and are numbered like this - SI/2468698 etc.

I can see that the health act 2006 gives the minister (secretary of state) the power to amend the law but what i can't see is when the SoS actually has done.

I just like proof
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 21:52   #11
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Big breasted Arian women?
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 23:05   #12
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Cigarettes should be illegal anyway, they became popular due to misconception and deception, why not use some heavy force to **** them over.
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 23:30   #13
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

So did most stuff thats bad for u !
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 23:43   #14
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

can you imagine if governments tried to ban them? christ, the legal cases would drag on for years and years
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 23:48   #15
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

They have enough mandate to slowly phase them out of society....

I cannot understand how it became popular anyway with these health effects :S
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 00:04   #16
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
They have enough mandate to slowly phase them out of society....

I cannot understand how it became popular anyway with these health effects :S

1. what do you think all these new rules and regs are meant to do?


2. it became popular before the health risks were known
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 00:07   #17
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

In Europe (yesIknowwe'repartofEuropebutIdon'tcare) I think it's still more popular than in the UK - Amsterdam and France, for example.
A lot of people smoke originally because of social pressure and then because of habit / stress.
I hear there's also an advertising campaign planned for the cigarettes showing the lungs of a smoker compared to a healthy person.


...Imagine if they tried banning chocolate?
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 00:20   #18
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

If they ban cigarettes totally though, they should ban sugar and religion, they kill more people.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 00:43   #19
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
yeah what i am asking for is a statutory instrument. they look like mini acts of parliament and are numbered like this - SI/2468698 etc.

I can see that the health act 2006 gives the minister (secretary of state) the power to amend the law but what i can't see is when the SoS actually has done.

I just like proof
From what I can tell such an order hasn't been laid yet, so presumably it will be soonish.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 04:20   #20
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

In America it's next to impossible to find a place where you can still smoke indoors. Even the bars and clubs have gone smoke free. Some areas smoking outdoors is illegal and some states are trying to pass laws to outlaw smoking in your own home and car. It's almost illegal everywhere but just legal enough to keep smokers from waging a war.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 08:18   #21
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allfather
If they ban cigarettes totally though, they should ban sugar and religion, they kill more people.
And whatever's the other stuff that causes Americans to become fat.


Irregardless, cigs (and related products) are 18+ in Finland, and yet a quarter - that's 25% - of fifteen to eighteen-year-old girls smoke. For boys, the figure is a little lower. It makes little difference whether they're allowed to buy or not. If they don't get it themselves (ie. a salesperson hapless enough or an old enough appearing kid), they'll just have someone else buy it for them.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 08:26   #22
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

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Originally Posted by Tietäjä
And whatever's the other stuff that causes Americans to become fat.
That's covered under religion i.e. Capitalism
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 08:55   #23
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

in canada it's been 18 for years (i don't know if its been lower)
i remember being 18 and buying smokes for a 17 year old friend.. and that was... 5 years ago? i'm sure the youth over there will be able to cope with the change. it's probably a good thing.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 09:04   #24
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
i'm sure the youth over there will be able to cope with the change. it's probably a good thing.
¨
You mean they'll be able to cope with it the same way they're coping with it here and there, ie. getting their friends buy the products for them? Does this make the change useless or good?
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 09:38   #25
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

both.. it'll make it harder for youth to get smokes, but they'll still be able to get them if they really want.
i only bought smokes for my friend that one time and then i refused (i'm a non-smoker).. so she had to find other ways of getting them.
i don't think the change will really effect the current smokers as they would probably have friends of age to buy for them, but i do believe it'll help cut down on the 13/14 year old smokers.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 11:15   #26
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Believes don't cut it, I would like to see some evidence to support your claim.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 11:37   #27
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

how about this insanity --

Age of 16 you can have legal hetro sex.
Age of 17 you will still be able to drive a moped on the road legally.
But very soon, you wont be able to buy a tobacco product !

i love engish laws
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 11:39   #28
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Hetero? You mean it's illegal for 16 year olds to have gay sex?
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 11:53   #29
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Hetero? You mean it's illegal for 16 year olds to have gay sex?
no, thanks to the Parliament Act
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 13:00   #30
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
both.. it'll make it harder for youth to get smokes, but they'll still be able to get them if they really want.
I find it mad that it is easier for kids to buy weed, ecstacy and cocaine than it will be to buy a pack of cigarettes or a pint of beer. Madness.

Quote:
i only bought smokes for my friend that one time and then i refused (i'm a non-smoker)..
I don't understand this, you refused why exactly?
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 13:06   #31
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistwraith
how about this insanity --

Age of 16 you can have legal hetro sex.
Age of 17 you will still be able to drive a moped on the road legally.
But very soon, you wont be able to buy a tobacco product !

i love engish laws
I don't think it's very uncommon for tobacco products to be at 18+. Imagine alcohol products, which have even stricter limitations often. I can't understand the comparision to intercourse, though.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 13:24   #32
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
I find it mad that it is easier for kids to buy weed, ecstacy and cocaine than it will be to buy a pack of cigarettes or a pint of beer. Madness.
er
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 14:48   #33
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

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Originally Posted by Phang
er
Your keyboard must be playing up, you only typed "er", care to add something?
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 14:56   #34
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

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Originally Posted by pig
Your keyboard must be playing up, you only typed "er", care to add something?
does it not strike you that your argument is complete shit without explanation? oh well.

if people have to buy a product on a black market of one form or another, its presumably rather easier to get hold of something widely available legally to your parents, your siblings, your friends, etc etc, than something only available illegally and probably only via two or three people you know, who won't always be able to get hold of anything in the first place.

Etcetera.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 15:05   #35
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
does it not strike you that your argument is complete shit without explanation? oh well.
What a bit like your post, magic stuff there phang. As always you are raising the bar on the internet.

Quote:
if people have to buy a product on a black market of one form or another, its presumably rather easier to get hold of something widely available legally to your parents, your siblings, your friends, etc etc, than something only available illegally and probably only via two or three people you know, who won't always be able to get hold of anything in the first place.

Etcetera.
You would think so, but people are a little anal about giving 15 year olds alcohol, yet a 15 year old can quite easily make a phone call and order some drugs. There aren't alcohol dealers, simply because you wouldn't make any slash enough money out of it to make it worth breaking the law.

The same with cigarettes. How would say a 15 year old get a pack of cigarettes? But some weed, sure no problem.

I hope you see which angle I am taking.

For something to be sold illegally, ie drugs there needs to be enough profit to make it worthwhile to sell. Drug dealers don't have an age limit. But why would people sell alcohol/cigarettes to people underage when it's illegal and very little profit involved.

Also bar a few families I don't know many parents who would buy their 16 year old kid a pack of cigarettes, nor do I know many parents who buy their kids a bottle of vodka.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 15:13   #36
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

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Originally Posted by pig
What a bit like your post, magic stuff there phang. As always you are raising the bar on the internet.
ice burn

Quote:
You would think so, but people are a little anal about giving 15 year olds alcohol, yet a 15 year old can quite easily make a phone call and order some drugs. There aren't alcohol dealers, simply because you wouldn't make any slash enough money out of it to make it worth breaking the law.
And yet when I was 15-16, house parties always were miraculously full of booze. I don't know if things were different for you but I've never encountered a 16-year-old with real difficulties getting hold of alcohol for a party.

Quote:
The same with cigarettes. How would say a 15 year old get a pack of cigarettes? But some weed, sure no problem.
What, have you never been approached outside a Londis or whatever by a kid offering a fiver for some L&Bs?

Quote:
I hope you see which angle I am taking.
I do, it's just complete arse.

Quote:
For something to be sold illegally, ie drugs there needs to be enough profit to make it worthwhile to sell. Drug dealers don't have an age limit. But why would people sell alcohol/cigarettes to people underage when it's illegal and very little profit involved.
Well, the illegal aspect obviously doesn't matter; and the only reason there wouldnt be much profit is because buying smirnoff ice as a sideline probably won't be that profitable given the ease of acquiring it for underage drinkers.

Quote:
Also bar a few families I don't know many parents who would buy their 16 year old kid a pack of cigarettes, nor do I know many parents who buy their kids a bottle of vodka.
Cigarettes you'd ask a friend's brother or something more likely, but I'm seriously amazed your, and apparently so many of your friends', parents were notably puritanical about alcohol.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 15:31   #37
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
ice burn

And yet when I was 15-16, house parties always were miraculously full of booze. I don't know if things were different for you but I've never encountered a 16-year-old with real difficulties getting hold of alcohol for a party.
No neither have I, but it took a bit of planning and a bit of an effort. To buy some weed was always a lot easier as the dealer would deliver.

Quote:
What, have you never been approached outside a Londis or whatever by a kid offering a fiver for some L&Bs?
No, I haven't.

Quote:
I do, it's just complete arse.
So you like it then? (that was a joke, you are far too serious sometimes)

Quote:
but I'm seriously amazed your, and apparently so many of your friends', parents were notably puritanical about alcohol.

I never mentioned my parents, they were about as liberal as you get.

Most of my friends growing up were indian. There was the problem, their families were pretty strict and asking there dad for a bottle at 16 was hardly the best thing to do. Saying that at 18 their families had no problems with them drinking.

As far as when I was 15/16 there used to be a dodgy off liscence that sold it to underage drinkers, fags were fairly easy to get from a dodgy newsagent but I am fairly sure that I see more kids smoking up than I do drinking, and when they do drink they do it in excess.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 16:22   #38
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
They have enough mandate to slowly phase them out of society....

I cannot understand how it became popular anyway with these health effects :S
Raise the legal age for smoking by one year every year. In theory you'll have no new smokers leaving those that do to continue or quit. Enforcing it however would be fun.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 17:09   #39
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
I don't think it's very uncommon for tobacco products to be at 18+. Imagine alcohol products, which have even stricter limitations often. I can't understand the comparision to intercourse, though.
well sex can = babies so in theory your allowed to become a parent at 16, but not be old enough to decide wether you want to start smoking or not.

at 17 your concidered old enough to wield a machine on the road which if not properly wielded could take a life, probably yours, but your still not old enough to decide wether you want to smoke or not.

the law will concider you old enough to make that sort of decision over your life, but not concider you old enough to make the tobacco decision over your life..

basically the age laws in the UK make no damned sense.
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Unread 31 Aug 2007, 18:38   #40
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
I don't understand this, you refused why exactly?
because (and all my smoking friends know this) i refuse to support their filthy habits :P
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Unread 1 Sep 2007, 00:22   #41
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Did a bit of searching, its listed as a draft SI

Quote:
The Children and Young Persons (Sale of Tobacco etc.) Order 2007

Superseded by SI 2007 No 767
SI 2007/767 - Web version (HTML)
SI 2007/767 - Print version (PDF - 42 KB)
SI 2007/767 - Explanatory Memorandum (PDF - 107 KB)
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Unread 1 Sep 2007, 00:26   #42
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

The Children and Young Persons (Sale of Tobacco etc.) Order 2007

Made 7th March 2007
Coming into force 1st October 2007

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/20070767.htm


(great spot by the way)
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Unread 1 Sep 2007, 00:44   #43
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
because (and all my smoking friends know this) i refuse to support their filthy habits :P
i've tried to look for a more diplomatic way of wording this but you are spectacularly judgemental.
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Unread 1 Sep 2007, 01:49   #44
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
i've tried to look for a more diplomatic way of wording this but you are spectacularly judgemental.
I disagree
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 16:39   #45
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
Did a bit of searching, its listed as a draft SI
ta
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 17:02   #46
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I disagree
i agree


(wif u)
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 17:20   #47
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Laws like this always seem rather silly. You should just move the age up for everyone from now. It's arbitrary enough but at least it's vaguely rational.
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 17:22   #48
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
i agree
I agree with your agreement of nodrog's disagreement.
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 19:53   #49
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
I find it mad that it is easier for kids to buy weed, ecstacy and cocaine than it will be to buy a pack of cigarettes or a pint of beer. Madness.
It's far easier to ask some random person on the street to buy you a pack of fags/can of beer than it is to find someone who is selling ecstasy or cocaine (not paracetamol)
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Unread 3 Sep 2007, 00:11   #50
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Re: changing the age of legal smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
It's far easier to ask some random person on the street to buy you a pack of fags/can of beer than it is to find someone who is selling ecstasy or cocaine (not paracetamol)
It probably is, but once you know a drug dealer its far easier to call them up than approach a random person on the street to buy you a pack of fags/can of beer.
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