Planetarion Forums - Chelsea will win the league

Androme · 2 Jan 2005, 16:24

I disagree with Gerrard - I say Pires.

Sunday8pm · 2 Jan 2005, 19:29

Gerrard has yet to produce anything which convinces me he's nothing more than average...

Keane has led Manchester United to Titles
Vieira has led Arsenal to Titles
Lampard is leading Chelsea to Titles.
Gerrard is usually led down the tunnel to an early bath or the physio or both sometimes.

Phang · 2 Jan 2005, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Gerrard has yet to produce anything which convinces me he's nothing more than average...

Keane has led Manchester United to Titles
Vieira has led Arsenal to Titles
Lampard is leading Chelsea to Titles.
Gerrard is usually led down the tunnel to an early bath or the physio or both sometimes.

YOUR ARGUMENT IS PHYSICALLY PAINFUL

Androme · 2 Jan 2005, 20:14

No-one has still mentioned Pires

MrL_JaKiri · 2 Jan 2005, 20:17

Robben's better than Pires.

Androme · 2 Jan 2005, 20:18

Not really, goal assists, goals,, average game statistics over the years says otherwise.

Stew · 2 Jan 2005, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Gerrard has yet to produce anything which convinces me he's nothing more than average...

Are you taking the piss?
Gerrard is a world class player, and the only good player Liverpool have - his work rate is phenomonal and he never gives up, he's also behind everything they do. Just look at the difference between the Liverpool recently and the Liverpool when he was injured. That's not 'average' where I come from.

MrL_JaKiri · 2 Jan 2005, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androme2

Not really, goal assists, goals,, average game statistics over the years says otherwise.

Pires is 11 years older than Robben. Of course he's got better stats 'over the years'.

This season, you merely have to compare pre to post Robben performances by Chelsea. That's evidence enough.

Androme · 2 Jan 2005, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Pires is 11 years older than Robben. Of course he's got better stats 'over the years'.

This season, you merely have to compare pre to post Robben performances by Chelsea. That's evidence enough.

Of course players as they get older get shitter (bar David Seaman & Ian Wright - they didn't get too shit towards end of his reign)

MrL_JaKiri · 2 Jan 2005, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androme2

Of course players as they get older get shitter (bar David Seaman & Ian Wright - they didn't get too shit towards end of his reign)

Yes, but not only does this not do anything to my point, as Pires is hardly at a level where you'd give up on a player, it also is a nice counterargument for your own.

Androme · 2 Jan 2005, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Yes, but no

The first 10 bytes of your sentence sum up your whole argument.

lokken · 2 Jan 2005, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Gerrard has yet to produce anything which convinces me he's nothing more than average...

Keane has led Manchester United to Titles
Vieira has led Arsenal to Titles
Lampard is leading Chelsea to Titles.
Gerrard is usually led down the tunnel to an early bath or the physio or both sometimes.

Gerrard outworks all of them, outskills all of them and on top of that has the ability to send a crowd bananas with his stunning goals. On top of that, his attitude is superb. If it was a choice of any of those 4 at my club, Gerrard every time.

He's better than all 3 currently, it's not his fault he's surrounded by shite and ends up having to do the work for other players to make sure his team have a chance of winning a game.

Titles take a team, not just one player, cos you didn't see Keane leading Forest to titles, Vieira leading Milan to titles, nor Lampard to West Ham to titles, yet they were still 'rated' for their own abilities.

Nice backtracking on the Keane point BTW.

SeanG · 3 Jan 2005, 00:36

When Pires learns to stand up when people are standing/running close to him and not fall to the ground like he's been shot, I may then start to rate him.

Stew · 3 Jan 2005, 00:39

To be fair to Pires - he's good going forward, even if he does go to ground as much as Heskey, 3rd highest goalscorer in the PL isn't too bad for a midfielder, especially one who seems to get rested every bloody third game.

(The unhappiness is due to him being in my fantasy league team)

Boogster · 3 Jan 2005, 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Gerrard has yet to produce anything which convinces me he's nothing more than average...

Keane has led Manchester United to Titles
Vieira has led Arsenal to Titles
Lampard is leading Chelsea to Titles.
Gerrard is usually led down the tunnel to an early bath or the physio or both sometimes.

You are either incredibly stupid, or blind, or an Evertonian - or you know nothing about football.

PS. Or you might hold a perfectly reasonable view that I disagree with. In any case, I'm sending the local lout to smash your head in.

Stew · 3 Jan 2005, 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogster

I'm sending the local lout to smash your head in.

You personally know Steven Gerrard?

Ste · 3 Jan 2005, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogster

You are either incredibly stupid, or blind, or you know nothing about football.

Ah so you two have been introduced?

Androme · 3 Jan 2005, 01:41

It's cool seeing Ste & Stew stick-up for each other when Boogster insults 1 of them.

Cute.

Stew · 3 Jan 2005, 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androme2

It's cool seeing Ste & Stew stick-up for each other when Boogster insults 1 of them.

Cute.

Read

the

relevant

posts

again.

Ste · 3 Jan 2005, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew

Read

the

relevant

posts

again.

Thanks babe

Androme · 3 Jan 2005, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ste

Thanks babe

Aww. You're the couple of 2004!

Ste · 3 Jan 2005, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androme2

Aww. You're the couple of 2004!

It was a shaun of the dead quote.
But whatever

Androme · 3 Jan 2005, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ste

It was a shaun of the dead quote.
But whatever

That quote could have come from just about any film

Ste · 3 Jan 2005, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androme2

That quote could have come from just about any film

If you've seen it you'll know what I mean.

Androme · 3 Jan 2005, 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ste

If you've seen it you'll know what I mean.

I've seen Dawn of the Dead :-/

MrL_JaKiri · 3 Jan 2005, 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by lokken

Lampard to West Ham to titles, yet they were still 'rated' for their own abilities

When Lampard was at West Ham, he was considered a fairly average midfield player with limited potential.

MrL_JaKiri · 3 Jan 2005, 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ste

If you've seen it you'll know what I mean.

It's the recycling of a Spaced joke.

Ste · 3 Jan 2005, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

It's the recycling of a Spaced joke.

yeh that too.
I just watched SOTD the night before. Spaced series 1 was what we watched the night before that.
my gf is

Smudge · 3 Jan 2005, 13:38

Chelsea have to go to Everton, Newcastle and Man Utd
They also get to entertain Arsenal

There playing a minium of 6 fixtures a month (if you include getting knocked out of the FA Cup and Champions Leage in the 3rd round and the Quaters respectivly)

7 Players on 2 or more yellow cards
And remember people yellow cards dont mean points, the mean suspensions!

They have a 29 man squad, 9 of which have no experience of first team football

I will say this now and you can quote me - Chelsea will not win the league

Androme · 3 Jan 2005, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smudge

Chelsea will win the league

Quoted for the end of the season.

MrL_JaKiri · 3 Jan 2005, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smudge

Chelsea have to go to Everton, Newcastle and Man Utd
They also get to entertain Arsenal

There playing a minium of 6 fixtures a month (if you include getting knocked out of the FA Cup and Champions Leage in the 3rd round and the Quaters respectivly)

7 Players on 2 or more yellow cards
And remember people yellow cards dont mean points, the mean suspensions!

They have a 29 man squad, 9 of which have no experience of first team football

I will say this now and you can quote me - Chelsea will not win the league

Christ, you're an idiot.

Just doing this for the 'big 3', because the winner will amost certainly be one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smudge

Chelsea have to go to Everton, Newcastle and Man Utd
They also get to entertain Arsenal

Out of the top 6 (plus newcastle!)

Chelsea have to play Everton, Newcastle, Manchester United, Middlesbrough and Arsenal.

Manchester United have to play Everton, Newcastle, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool.

Arsenal have to play Everton, Newcastle, Chelsea, Liverpool, Middlesbrough and Manchester United.

There's no real difference, and I'd say that Chelsea have the easier fixtures here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smudge

There playing a minium of 6 fixtures a month (if you include getting knocked out of the FA Cup and Champions Leage in the 3rd round and the Quaters respectivly)

Manchester United have, at the moment, exactly the same number of games to play. Arsenal have two fewer, because they were knocked out of the Carling Cup.

Not much difference there then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smudge

7 Players on 2 or more yellow cards

In total, yes. However, you appear to have missed that the Premiership and the Champions League are different competitions; there's only four Chelsea players with more than 1 yellow card in a given competition (and Frank Lampard's just got suspended for yellow cards. For the game against stoke! Wowee!); Lampard (3 in EPL), Smertin (2 in EPL, 2 in CL), Kezman (2 in Europe) and Robben (2 in EPL).

No chelsea players have been sent off this season.

In comparison...

Manchester United have 4 players on 2 or more yellow cards in a single competiiton; Roy Keane (3 in EPL), Gabriel Heinze (2 in CL), Paul Scholes (2 in CL) and Liam Millar (2 in CL).

Manchester United have gotten one red card this season (Alan Smith).

Arsenal have five players on two or more yellow cards in a single competition; Vieira (FIVE in EPL), Lauren (2 in EPL), Ashley Cole (FIVE in EPL), Fabregas (3 in EPL) and Henry (2 in EPL).

Arsenal have had two players sent off (Vieira and Lauren).

Total cards: Chelsea 27/0, Manchester United 28/1, Arsenal 30/2. Chelsea have the best disciplinary record.

Quote:

They have a 29 man squad, 9 of which have no experience of first team football

Taking players who I'd consider to be 'first teamers'; so, for example, Christopher Eagles doesn't count, as he's had so few first team appearances.

Chelsea have 19 full internationals, 1 u21 international, and one uncapped player: Carlo Cudicini.

Arsenal have 13 full internationals, 6 u21 internationals, and one uncapped player (Pascal Cygan).

Manchester United have 23 full internationals and one uncapped player (David Bellion).

Advantage Manchester United, by those stats. But is it?

Their 'full internationals' include Solskjaer (who won't play again this season), Eric Djemba-Djemba (just doesn't cut it), Liam Millar (who's hardly played the greatest of seasons so far), Wes Brown, Phil Neville and Quinton Fortune.

Hardly the stuff legends are made of.

To anyone looking at the squads in depth, it's clear that Chelsea are the strongest. If they buy Joaquin, then this becomes emphatic.

Your argument basically comes down to 'Chelsea won't win the league, because they have to play at least 90 minutes per match and that will tire the players'. What you have said means NOTHING in isolation, and it's clear that you either chose to misrepresent the information, or didn't understand that the other big teams are still in europe, and don't have 50 man squads.

Androme · 3 Jan 2005, 16:11

Arsenal for the cup

Although this season I actually am worried for the 1st time in 6 years about losing the league - Chelsea's defence is the only thing I'm actually worried about and Arsenal's fault imo. mainly lies with the goalkeeping and Cygan/Toure - Cygan isn't the best for eye on the ball and Toure tries too much to be like Campbell imo.

I wished Jamie Pennant, Van Persie & Justin Hoyte played more games. I've seen Van Persie & Justin Hoyte both play prior to their debut appearences for the 1st team and they played phenomenally well and equally better during their debuts -> Van Persie in the Charity Shield and Hoyte in a match I can't remember :/ None-the-less, it's shame they aren't played more often - just experience stops them from playing I suppose. Van Persie reminds me of a young Marc Overmars (my fav. ever player at Arsenal

)

JonnyBGood · 3 Jan 2005, 16:25

That was the most comprehensive dismantling of a football argument I've ever seen. I think you need something more intellectually stimulating in your life mark.

Lupin · 3 Jan 2005, 17:20

to call smudges post a football argument is ridicilous.

Sunday8pm · 3 Jan 2005, 21:35

I'm sorry I forget every englishman who loves England has their cock up gerrards ass and believes the sun shines out of it.

All I've seen of him is get bullied or crap out in really important games.

He's as influential for Liverpool and England as Ferguson is for Blackburn and Scotland.

Both incredibly overrated, both show flashes of inconsistent brilliance, both end up getting bullied too easily into reacting/hurting themselves.

WILL YOU ALL WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ****ING COFFEE.

The only way that gobshit will ever amount to anything is if he ends up in an extremely talented team that can cuddle him, just like David Beckham.

LHC · 3 Jan 2005, 21:50

He's far better than Ferguson, but has yet to shine for England.

KoeN · 3 Jan 2005, 21:53

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Androme · 3 Jan 2005, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoeN

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Scarily enough, I was at the EXACT moment the dude said that in Minority Report which I only bought today (never seen it previously)

KoeN · 3 Jan 2005, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androme2

Scarily enough, I was at the EXACT moment the dude said that in Minority Report which I only bought today (never seen it previously)

IM WATCHING YOU AMY!

Androme · 3 Jan 2005, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoeN

IM WATCHING YOU AMY!

The names Agatha you Post-Cog

MrL_JaKiri · 3 Jan 2005, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

He's as influential for Liverpool and England as Ferguson is for Blackburn and Scotland.

Hahahahaha. You post some stupid shit sometimes.

Reidy · 3 Jan 2005, 22:39

I'd have Gerrard as my first choice midfeilder, second choice wud be Graversen (sp).

Tin hat, i think sunderland were the first team to be relegated on goal difference, the first team to be relegated with 40 points, and then i wont go in to what happened last time we went down... so i'd say times are good at forest

JC · 3 Jan 2005, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

He's as influential for Liverpool and England as Ferguson is for Blackburn and Scotland.

Both incredibly overrated, both show flashes of inconsistent brilliance, both end up getting bullied too easily into reacting/hurting themselves.

I can safely say you havent got a clue with regards to Ferguson and Rovers. He is MOTM most matches and deservedly so. I dont really give a shit how he plays for Scotland, you could put Ronaldinho in that team and he would become unnoticeable.

As for Gerrard. do you even watch games that he plays in?! He can tackle, he takes people on, he works harder than any of his team mates and runs from box to box. The only area where Lampard beats him is goal scoring. Also, Gerrard is a more influential leader than Lampard. Dont get me wrong, Lampard is a ****ing class player, but he's not Steven Gerrard.

Ragrrr · 3 Jan 2005, 23:50

Go Wolves. :\

Blastoderm · 4 Jan 2005, 01:13

Gerrard is about the only player who can challenge Henry for both dometic player of the year awards imho.

MrL_JaKiri · 4 Jan 2005, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blastoderm

Gerrard is about the only player who can challenge Henry for both dometic player of the year awards imho.

...Lampard?

Blastoderm · 4 Jan 2005, 01:21

He's good but he's not wowing me like last season.