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Unread 6 Jun 2007, 11:41   #1
All Systems Go
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Uni Application

It's getting late now but today I recieved my reference from one uni lecturer in the post.

the problem is, I need two references. I had asked two lecturers but one seems to have gone quiet. I have not had a proper job since I left university so I can't use that route.

I've not really had a job since I worked weekends from 2002/03 so I'm not sure that will be good enough for a reference.

Any ideas on what I should do?
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Unread 6 Jun 2007, 11:47   #2
Dante Hicks
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Re: Uni Application

Ask any of the lecturers you ever had. Even the ones who only had you for a single lecture will give you a generic reference, especially if they don't remember you.

Or just give someone on GD and say you worked on a collabarative new media venture which explored the discourse of late capitalist decline.
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Unread 6 Jun 2007, 11:53   #3
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Re: Uni Application

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
explored the discourse of late capitalist decline.
It's declining?
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Unread 6 Jun 2007, 11:59   #4
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Re: Uni Application

even if you havent worked since 2003, if its a major company, they will send you a reference, send them a tick box option letter with a SAE and forget to include the dates you worked for them, but include them in your covering letter.
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Unread 6 Jun 2007, 12:21   #5
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Re: Uni Application

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
It's declining?
Well my statement was not exactly serious...

Having said that, maybe. It's not straight-forward to tell - we might be using up "environmental capital" (to borrow the terminology of others) to the point where a crash is unavoidable. If that is the case then our current state would certainly be classed as a decline (even if living standards are presently rising generally).
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Unread 6 Jun 2007, 12:35   #6
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Re: Uni Application

I could suggest some elaborate plan of deception and lies that would probably result in failure.

But why don't you just ring this second lecturer and ask?
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Unread 6 Jun 2007, 21:19   #7
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Re: Uni Application

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Well my statement was not exactly serious...

Having said that, maybe. It's not straight-forward to tell - we might be using up "environmental capital" (to borrow the terminology of others) to the point where a crash is unavoidable. If that is the case then our current state would certainly be classed as a decline (even if living standards are presently rising generally).
to be fair your beliefs are little different from the nutters with sandwich boards preaching the end of the world.

You will go on predicting a crash, much as they go on predicting the end of the world, if it fails to happen in your lifetime you will indoctrinate your children et al to carry on the prediction. Then if a crash happens you will say 'i told you so'

I love you very much but you are not exactly rational.
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Unread 6 Jun 2007, 23:31   #8
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Re: Uni Application

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
to be fair your beliefs are little different from the nutters with sandwich boards preaching the end of the world.
I was merely quoting Jared Diamond one of whose books I've just finished. I don't want a crash and I remain hopeful we can avoid it if we harness our collective abilities and work together.

I'm not convinced we are doing enough in that direction at present, but nvm.
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Unread 7 Jun 2007, 05:14   #9
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Re: Uni Application

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I don't want a crash and I remain hopeful we can avoid it if we harness our collective abilities and work together.
You're such a sell-out Darian.
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Unread 7 Jun 2007, 06:31   #10
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Re: Uni Application

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Having said that, maybe. It's not straight-forward to tell - we might be using up "environmental capital" (to borrow the terminology of others) to the point where a crash is unavoidable. If that is the case then our current state would certainly be classed as a decline (even if living standards are presently rising generally).
I only browsed the book in waterstones but the examples that diamond uses for collapse are or were individual societies in specific locations, im not really sure if that can be applicable to the earth as a whole. To give an analogy with the biosphere2 'experiment' relatively or completely isolated communities are always going to be vulnerable to unforseen circumstances, but globalisation and world commerce spreads the risk. Provided theres no global catastrophe - and im talking in terms of a comet strike the 'global zero-sum' game will mean no collapse.

Had the boxing day tsunami occured in another lifetime it would probably have been included as an example of extinction due to massive environmental damage, but no civilisation was wiped out because other people could help. Even climate change is a zero-sum game afaik.
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Unread 7 Jun 2007, 08:39   #11
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Re: Uni Application

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Originally Posted by milo
Even climate change is a zero-sum game afaik.
Will respond with a longer post later, but in short - what? I must misunderstand you here. If the Earth's climate changes then yes, some areas will become less suitable for human habitation (and food production) and other areas will become more suitable (there will be winners and losers as a UN report put it). But it doesn't stand to reason that this will somehow magically balance out. And even if Russia/Canada/Greenland gained exactly the same amount of land that other parts of the world lost there would be the small issue of how we'd move the billions of people involved without political/economic upheaval. Not to mention a ****ing great ruck.

Obviously there's more to climate change than just land availability but on related issues it's a similar story - we might end up having the same amount of rain globally as we do now, but if rainfall patterns are disrupted and we get all our rain in one five minute window in September then most of our infrastructure for irrigation / water distribution simply won't work.

Also, Diamond doesn't claim that our civilisation will be wiped out - instead he suggests economic decline and reduction in living standards is far more likely in the longer term.
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Unread 7 Jun 2007, 10:26   #12
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Re: Uni Application

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
If the Earth's climate changes then yes, some areas will become less suitable for human habitation (and food production) and other areas will become more suitable (there will be winners and losers as a UN report put it). But it doesn't stand to reason that this will somehow magically balance out. And even if Russia/Canada/Greenland gained exactly the same amount of land that other parts of the world lost there would be the small issue of how we'd move the billions of people involved without political/economic upheaval.

Human habitation concerns me the least, the vast vast majority of people would simply refuse to move but rather adapt at what they have. The dutch haven't been obliging enough to drown like the rest of humanity wants them, but have massively engineered their surroundings to make it more pleasant, they'll be the first (and worst) affected by sea water levels but they won't move they'll just build bigger dykes.

Food production is an issue but as long as global trade continues i don't see starvation as a necessity.


Quote:
Also, Diamond doesn't claim that our civilisation will be wiped out - instead he suggests economic decline and reduction in living standards is far more likely in the longer term.

I've never really understood what 'living standards' is trying to describe, but in terms of the economy weather dependant industry aside why would it decline?
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Unread 7 Jun 2007, 10:32   #13
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Re: Uni Application

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Obviously there's more to climate change than just land availability but on related issues it's a similar story - we might end up having the same amount of rain globally as we do now, but if rainfall patterns are disrupted and we get all our rain in one five minute window in September then most of our infrastructure for irrigation / water distribution simply won't work.
Even if all the rain in all the world fell in one hour every year in bolivia, it'd be a hassle but we'd cope. We'd just adapt the irrigation and water transportation methods to get the water to the rest of the world and pay the bolivians through the arse for the priviledge. Substitute water for oil in my analogy. The oil price has increased due to various factors, cartels, demand etc but the western economies over the last 30 years haven't got worse.
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Unread 7 Jun 2007, 11:10   #14
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Re: Uni Application

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
Even if all the rain in all the world fell in one hour every year in bolivia, it'd be a hassle but we'd cope.
I think you might be underestimating the technical difficulty of such projects just a tad. But maybe I'm just overestimating the difficulty, you're the one with the engineering background.

The issue isn't whether we'd survive as a species (we would) but how much of our salaries (or however you wish to analyse that) would be going on the basics like water, food, or transportation. At present I'm probably paying something like 1% or less of my gross annual income on water (discounting drinks, I'm just talking about the bill from Thames Water). Under your shipping (or pumping) our water from Bolivia scenario (and I appreciate obviously it's never going to happen) I'm guessing that my bill is going to increase a tad. Sure, maybe the economy will grow dramatically enough to mean that the £5,000 I'll be paying is still only 1% of my income but I don't think you can just assume that's going to happen.

The environmental changes which are coming (according to the environmentalists at least, I'm not an expert) will mean that on a very basic level :
- food production will be dramatically more expensive, more difficult, and increasingly reliant on energy inputs (thus more energy and capital intensive)
- water use will be constrained, more expensive, require more treatment to be drinkable, etc.
- climate will be harsher on us (at least in particular environments).

Now sure, maybe technology will solve our problems, but I'm a bit worried that we're just assuming this will happen. Is there a perfect substitute for oil (in all it's uses) yet? An easy way of desalinating water (or soils)? A way of perfectly climate controlling entire continents without high energy costs? Again, this isn't my field but you'd think advances like this would be publicised.
Quote:
I've never really understood what 'living standards' is trying to describe, but in terms of the economy weather dependant industry aside why would it decline?
Think of it as a corollary to the broken window fallacy. Lots of windows are going to be broken by environmental problems. Yes, this will generate lots of economic activity, but this doesn't mean it's good, because money (or labour-time/resources, whatever) will be drawn away from things that we wanted to spend it on (like porn) onto dull things like fixing windows or desalinating water, or uber air conditioners.
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Unread 7 Jun 2007, 11:58   #15
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Re: Uni Application

I'm not saying it won't be difficult just i don't see why it would lead to economic decline, the cost of water would increase but it would still be a job creating industry. Basically regardless of climate change people will find something to do that requires others people to pay. I think the core issue here (as it always is!!) isn't land or climate per se but energy. As long as theres an energy source we can use easily and cheaply we can grow food in factories the japanese already do this, iirc they tax agricultural imports quite heavily so factories that produce lettuce have been constructed

Quote:
According to IEEE Spectrum Online: Of all the colors of the rainbow, red is lettuce's favorite. Chlorophyll, the electrochemical engine of photosynthesis, runs on red photons. So if you are growing the vegetable indoors in a factory, why waste energy on colors you don't need?

Using a red LED-based growth process developed by Cosmo Plant Co., in Fukuroi, Japan, instead of a fluorescent lighting based one, cuts a factory's electric bill by 60 percent, the company told Agence France Press.

Cosmo's customers uses the technology to produce 7000 heads of lettuce per day all year round in a 10-floor building on just 1000 square meters of space. The lettuce matures more than three times as fast under the LEDs than outdoors. While growing lettuce in an open field is still less costly, growing it inside under LEDs means you don't have to worry about crop-decimating typhoons and other nasty weather.
Its essentially the same process used to grow cannabis in 'house farms'. The energy cost is the issue not the land, weather or technology.

nb regarding porn, i was thinking about this the other day, its probably an indication of the level of consumption globally that despite noone i know actually paying for porn its still valued as a billion dollar industry. The interesting thing is if porn stars will 'overtake' fashion models in income (lets say for appearance fees etc). I'm 'suspicious' of the number of celebrity sex tapes being released 'accidentally'. Its worth considering that 'one night in paris' could not have been released as a dvd without a model release form. One of her friends, who ive never heard of ('Kim Kardashian') has apparently had her own 'illicit' tape released and has according to wiki been payed $5 million for it. The thing is looking at the images of the tape it isn't the way sex necesarrily happens in my life anyway. Theres soft flattering lighting, wearing expensive lingerie, its looks polished. Now fair enough i may just be odd but its just a little...contrived to me. Ye olde tit girls and 'celebs' didn't have these types of sex scandals and perhaps it marks the begining of a transition to the fashion magazines and porn world colliding.
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Unread 7 Jun 2007, 13:11   #16
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Re: Uni Application

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
I think the core issue here (as it always is!!) isn't land or climate per se but energy. As long as theres an energy source we can use easily and cheaply we can grow food
Yeah, but that's the problem - we don't have any easy energy options at present. We've already coped with low soil quality problems by using fertilisers, which is just another way of transferring energy but again, that's drawing on a finite resource (with hydrocarbon based fertilisers).

And yeah, there'll be jobs created but it's only in economically irrational circumstances that "unemployment" is an actual problem. If anything, problems might occur because we don't have enough skilled people in a given field at one time (solved easily overtime, but hard in the interim). But looking at things in terms of "job creation" is to fall victim to the same fallacy I mentioned before. We have to analyse quality of life beyond just "having a job" or even "earning x wage" because these things are meaningless by themselves. The people worked to death in the gulag had jobs of sorts, but it wasn't necessarily great times.
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nb regarding porn
Clueless people support a range of industries. Also, beyond a certain point perhaps convenience trumps cost. I used to be mystified by the mini-cab business model since as a pauper/student walking fifteen miles seemed a sensible way of avoiding spending £4. Now I'm happy to shove £30 into some greasy foriegners hand just so I can avoid the cold or hassle of public transport (post-pilling).
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