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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 14:39   #1
All Systems Go
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Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

Link.
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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 15:27   #2
Nodrog
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Re: Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

I'm not sure how any of the findings are anything other than obvious.

Also you can probably argue for a significant discrepancy between people's self-professed motivations for carrying out an act, and the real reasons why theyre doing it. The fact that none of the respondants apparently cited social expectations as a factor gives an indication of how big a grain of salt the results should be taken with. There are a lot of methodological problems with trying to find out why someone does something by simply asking them.


edit: Theres a copy of the paper here. The methodology seems dubious; theyve made no attempt at randomly selecting their population and have apparently used mainly undergrad/graduate students which hardly gives a fair reflection of society (its going to be heavily skewed towards people who are young, middle class, and white). Theyve also solicited their responses by asking the question "Please list all the reasons you can think of why you or someone else you have known has engaged in sexual intercourse in the past" so theres no distinction in the answers between the reasons people have gave for their own sexual practices, and random thinks which they have thought up to 'explain' why they friends are having sex. I really have no idea what the point of this research is meant to be or how it contributes to any wider understanding of sexual behavior; it seems like some yet another postivist sociology study to churn out a journal paper and get a bit of media coverage, but then I'm pretty cynical towards this sort of thing :/ I mean the whole paper boils down to "people have sex for lots of different reasons".

Last edited by Nodrog; 2 Jan 2008 at 15:52.
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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 15:48   #3
All Systems Go
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Re: Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

[quote=Nodrog]I'm not sure how any of the findings are anything other than obvious.[quote]

I found the article interesting to read in the tone seemed to far more surprised than you would probably expect. I also found it to be rather amusing, in a disturbing kind of way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Also you can probably argue for a significant discrepancy between people's self-professed motivations for carrying out an act, and the real reasons why theyre doing it. The fact that none of the respondants apparently cited social expectations as a factor gives an indication of how big a grain of salt the results should be taken with. There are a lot of methodological problems with trying to find out why someone does something by simply asking them.
This is a major problem with any sort of study about reasons though. Apart from whether a consiously lying, there is also lying to themselves or an action caused by unconsious motives which may differ from the ones we believe we are following.

Then there are interpretations of feelings. For instance, how do we know that when someone engages in sex to get 'closer to God' they are not following the same feeling as someone else who merely describes it as being 'horney'?

Isn't it true that a lot of things are the result of social expectations and therefore many people may not even be aware they are being influenced by it?
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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 15:50   #4
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Re: Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
edit: Theres a copy of the paper here. The methodology seems dubious; theyve made no attempt at randomly selecting their population and have apparently used mainly undergrad/graduate students which hardly gives a fair reflection of society (its going to be heavily skewed towards people who are young, middle class, and white). Theyve also solicited their responses by asking the question "Please list all the reasons you can think of why you or someone else you have known has engaged in sexual intercourse in the past" so theres no distinction in the answers between the reasons people have gave for their own sexual practices, and random thinks which they have thought up to 'explain' why they friends are having sex. I really have no idea what the point of this research is meant to be or how it contributes to any wider understanding of sexual behavior; it seems like some yet another postivist sociology study to churn out a journal paper and get a bit of media coverage, but then I'm pretty cynical towards this sort of thing :/
Will you do my Reasearch Methods essay for me?
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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 16:06   #5
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Re: Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I found the article interesting to read in the tone seemed to far more surprised than you would probably expect. I also found it to be rather amusing, in a disturbing kind of way.
Yeah, I think this is characteristic of media reporting of science in general and ties into deeper social problems about how information is presented to the public. Science tends to be reported in an extremely uncritical manner, with studies often made out to be a lot more important than they are. This obviously ties in with media sensationalism in general, but more importantly I think it stems from the way that news media is often passively consumed with audiences devouring it in a very unthinking way. Noone wants to spend more than a few seconds thinking about the implications of some study they read in the paper, they just want to consume the article and move onto whatever unrelated 'news' item is on the next page. In a printed medium, this study would probably be sandwiched between a report about a war in some farway country, and an item of celebrity gossip.

I dont think scientists are entirely blame-free either. Modern academic culture and the emphasis on publication-for-promotion gives academics a strong incentive to talk up their research in order to make themselves look good. I think scientists talking to outsiders (eg media) will often try to make their work sound a lot more ground-breaking than it is for this reason, and journalists are often too uneducated about the relevant literature in order to check. It might not even be conscious deception; most researchers probably believe that what theyre doing has some kind of importance, even when many outsiders would disagree.

Also, in the case of social sciences (eg social psychology like this), the modern orientation towards positivism means that there is a strong emphasis on quantitative studies which promotes the kind of trivial research that you linked to, and de-emphasises more potentially interesting qualitiative interpretative research which may not be as easily supportable by data (or at least, not by the sort of 'neat' data you can get by using popular research methods like surveys/psychometric tests/etc).

Quote:
This is a major problem with any sort of study about reasons though. Apart from whether a consiously lying, there is also lying to themselves or an action caused by unconsious motives which may differ from the ones we believe we are following.
Yeah, I was talking more about unconscious motives. I think theyve got round the problem of deliberately lying by phrasing the question in a way which makes no distinction between the respondent's personal motives and the motives of their friends. But I suspect unconscious motivations will be more interesting than conscious reasons in the majority of sexual encounters, especially since we live in a society where sex is so commodified and there are often strong expectations on people to have sex in the right way, with the right people, in the right circumstances.

Last edited by Nodrog; 2 Jan 2008 at 16:19.
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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 16:19   #6
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Re: Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Yeah, I think this is characteristic of media reporting of science in general and ties into deeper social problems about how information is presented to the public. Science tends to be reported in an extremely uncritical manner, with studies often made out to be a lot more important than they are. This obviously ties in with media sensationalism in general, but more importantly I think it stems from the way that news media is often passively consumed with audiences devouring it in a very unthinking way. Noone wants to spend more than a few seconds thinking about the implications of some study they read in the paper, they just want to consume the article and move onto whatever unrelated 'news' item is on the next page. In a printed medium, this study would probably be sandwiched between a report about a war in some farway country, and an item of celebrity gossip.
I think this is true, but given the problems in society, would anyone even stop on the page if the celebrity news wasn't there as well? I saw a video clip of David Dimbleby (it might have been his brother, Jonathan), interviewing Rupert Murdoch. In the video Murdoch criticises the BBC for following the same meothds of manipulation his papers use. In this particular instance he called the BBC for putting that particular show on after a more 'low brow' show in the hope to attract more viewers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I dont think scientists are entirely blame-free either. Modern academic culture and the emphasis on publication-for-promotion gives academics a strong incentive to talk up their research in order to make themselves look good. I think scientists talking to outsiders (eg media) will often decide to make their research sound a lot more ground-breaking than it is for this reason, and journalists are often too uneducated about the relevant literature in order to check.

Also, in the case of social sciences (eg social psychology like this), the modern orientation towards positivism means that there is a strong emphasis on quantitative studies which promotes the kind of trivial research that you linked to, and de-emphasises more potentially interesting qualitiative interpretative research which may not be as easily supportable by data (or at least, not by the sort of 'neat' data you can get by using popular research methods like surveys/psychometric tests/etc).
It can't help that those who work for universities are also required to publish x number of papers a year which can have a detrimental effect on quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Yeah, I was talking more about unconscious motives. I think theyve got round the problem of deliberately lying by phrasing the question in a way which makes no distinction between the respondent's personal motives and the motives of their friends. But I suspect unconscious motivations will be more interesting than conscious reasons in the majority of sexual encounters, especially since we live in a society where sex is so commodified and there are often strong expectations on people to have sex in the right way, with the right people, in the right circumstances.
Well GD sure showed them!
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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 16:28   #7
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Re: Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I think this is true, but given the problems in society, would anyone even stop on the page if the celebrity news wasn't there as well?
Yeah, probably. I dont think people have any real reason for reading newspapers (or watching TV news) other than some vague guilt relating to 'keeping informed about the world' , and the desire to pass time. If youre sitting on a train bored or on your lunch-break, youll read pretty much anything regardless of whether its celebrity gossip, the latest scientific research, or a report on an election in some country youll have forgotten about 10 minutes later. The internet is quite bad when it comes to encouraging this sort of behavior too, and the passive commodification of information is maybe just a result of having so much of it available.

Quote:
I saw a video clip of David Dimbleby (it might have been his brother, Jonathan), interviewing Rupert Murdoch. In the video Murdoch criticises the BBC for following the same meothds of manipulation his papers use. In this particular instance he called the BBC for putting that particular show on after a more 'low brow' show in the hope to attract more viewers.
That sounds interesting, is it on youtube? Its definitely not just a problem with 'low-brow' tabloids and it applies equally to pretty much all forms of media really. If anything, the tabloids are more honest since they dont have any pretence at being more than titty pictures and scandal.


Quote:
It can't help that those who work for universities are also required to publish x number of papers a year which can have a detrimental effect on quality.
There arent usually formal requirements, but publication records are generally a major factor when it comes to promotions/new jobs, which is why youll often find people putting out as many papers as possible.

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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 16:38   #8
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Re: Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Yeah, probably. I dont think people have any real reason for reading newspapers or watching TV news other than some vague guilt relating to 'keeping informed about the world' , and the desire to pass time. If youre sitting on a train bored or on your lunch-break, youll read pretty much anything regardless of whether its celebrity gossip, the latest scientific research, or the details about an election in some country youll have forgotten about 10 minutes later. The internet is quite bad when it comes to encouraging this sort of behavior too, and the passive commodification of information is maybe just a result of having so much of it available.
I've stopped reading newspapers and I havn't watched the news for many months and I have noticed no difference in my life, except that I don't feel as depressed. I do ocassionally glance at the BBC website but try to stay away from the nonsense i.e. 90%

The only downside is that I'm not really up on the latest issues of politics (which isn't great as that's my course) but it doesn't seem to have any actual impact that can't be remedied in a short space of time. I'm also surprised to find that my ability to argue hasn't waned in the way I thought it might.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
That sounds interesting, is it on youtube? Its definitely not just a problem with 'low-brow' tabloids and it applies equally to pretty much all forms of media really. If anything, the tabloids are more honest since they dont have any pretence at being more than titty pictures and scandal.
I had a look but I couldn't find it, but I'm shit at that sort of thing anyway. It's pretty old, possibly even from the 1980s so I'm not sure where you could get it.
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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 20:40   #9
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Re: Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I think scientists talking to outsiders (eg media) will often try to make their work sound a lot more ground-breaking than it is for this reason, and journalists are often too uneducated about the relevant literature in order to check. It might not even be conscious deception; most researchers probably believe that what theyre doing has some kind of importance, even when many outsiders would disagree.
The Radio 4 program 'More or Less' (a light-weight show on statistics in the media) did a bit on a scientific study which looked at obesity and health risks during pregnancy.

I won't rehash the whole argument here, but essentially ther terms "obese" and "overweight" had become freely interchangable in media coverage, when the scientific study kind of said the exact opposite. The program spoke to one of the doctor's on the study who initially defended the coverage but then came back and said that they agreed that the media coverage was bs, etc, etc. From what I could tell, the actual "scientists" weren't really that involved in the specifics of what was being said. Obviously this doesn't absolve them of blame though.

Quote:
Yeah, I was talking more about unconscious motives. I think theyve got round the problem of deliberately lying by phrasing the question in a way which makes no distinction between the respondent's personal motives and the motives of their friends
I'm not sure how common it is, but I am increasingly seeing metrics/KPIs/statical measures which everyone (even their creators) freely admit are inadequate but are kept because
i) They're better than nothing
ii) Even if it's all nonsense, consistent nonsense is still useful on some level.

So if you asked a group of thirteen/fourteen year old boys about their sexual experiences, you realise that it's going to be largely nonsense, but if you carried out the same study every year for 50 years you probably would notice some sort of shift (maybe lies getting more ludicrous, I don't know) which might tell you something about sexual attitudes.

The problem is that these measures/stats are taken out of context, the "...obviously we realise all this is bullshit" small print is removed and the things are presented as facts in and of themselves. They are then absorbed into debates where they have a real impact on policy making, business decisions, etc.

And while this is obvious and even understood by most involved in these processes, it's hard to resist, or to see an obvious cure. Short of some new enlightenment I'm guessing that better/more data and analysis will be what helps in the long run, but I'm also guessing that in the medium term there'll be an endless supply of dodgy surveys to contend with.
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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 21:23   #10
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Re: Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

And there was me thinking it was a genetically coded fun thing to do to achieve procreation.
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Unread 2 Jan 2008, 23:30   #11
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Re: Revealed: the real reasons why people have sex

At first I was surprised that "To have something to write about on GD" wasn't mentioned.

Then I remembered that like "Letters to Penthouse" real sex is not a requisite for posting amorous adventures on GD.
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