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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 14:21   #251
JonnyBGood
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
In your opinion! Lets assume that the government honestly thought Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (and a good reason to think so). Would they then be justified in invading?
I really don't think that's a safe assumption heh.

Obviously there a lot of mistakes made (by western governments) that actually led up to that question being one we can actually ask. Were there no other alternatives to invasion? Iraq was attempting to develop nuclear weapons in the 80s and Israel just blew the shit out of them. Slightly further down the scale could Saddam have been removed surgically? Could pro-democracy groups have been supported to the extent that he would have been deposed? Could Western governments have extended a helping hand publically to the Iraqi people and/or appealed to Saddam Hussein's self-interest in order to change the situation in Iraq?

Surely if we have enormously well funded foreign relations departments we should expect them to offer us a wide range of alternatives instead of 'INVADE IRAQ' vs 'LET YOUR KIDS GET NUKED BY TOWELHEADS'.

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Do you think we'd be justified in doing something about North Korea at the moment? (assuming such an action wouldn't trigger a nuclear war - so aye, totally hypothetical). And if so why? USA has nuclear weapons too, why aren't we invading them? Probably because we're all racists
"Something" is pretty broad. Do I think an invasion of North Korea is a good idea? No.

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I totally disagree there... do you honestly think the people should know every inner most political secret of our country? I mean I know I live with a 24/spooks view on things, but still... must be a lot of shit going on which would horrify people.
If something is being carried out in my name that under any circumstances I wouldn't support I'd like to know about it. If something horrifies people maybe there's a reason for that? I mean, you're the one talking about what the people want and democracy here.

I wasn't saying I'd like to know everything though. But if you're sending off your armed forces to invade another country that's a pretty big something. 5000 US troops have died in Iraq, 140 or something from the UK and smaller numbers for elsewhere. There are 90000 documented Iraqi deaths and many estimates run above a million now. I can live with not knowing the name of every spy living in Pyongang. I would like to found out precisely what reasons a government might have for killing hundreds of thousands of people.
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Last edited by JonnyBGood; 11 Jun 2009 at 14:31.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 14:37   #252
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
You really cant use the argument that labours shit and conservatives shit is nicer.. As its only nicer for your views and as this is a democracy, its not only your views that count. BNP supports can and probably do use the same argument you have used, against Labour/Conservatives.
I didn't say it was nicer I said it is more sophisticated.
I expect it is a bit easier for the BNP to convince a retarded racist in a deprived area that voting for them so that they can eradicate black people will result in a better standard of living, than it is for the Tories to convince middle England blue rinses that just because their MP spunked taxpayers money on a floating duck island, that they are a safer party to vote for than Gordons mob. It seems natural to me therefore, that the "shit" might have to be presented a bit more carefully.

And, for the record I am painfully aware that that it's not only my views that count. If it were, then my country wouldn't be suffering the humiliation of having elected two fascists to a European parliament that the vast majority of our retarded populace have no respect for whatsoever.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 14:40   #253
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Lets assume that the government honestly thought Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (and a good reason to think so). Would they then be justified in invading in self defence?
Why would anyone want to assume that when said government pretty much admitted to having had no evidence whatsoever and pretty much made up the whole WOMD thing?
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 14:41   #254
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by J
Iraq was attempting to develop nuclear weapons in the 80s and Israel just blew the shit out of them
I didn't know about that - interesting

My problem with all this is that - okay, since you've studied in this, you may well want to close your eyes now to avoid your brain exploding: lets say someone in 1935 in teh UK 'knew' germany were gonna go crazy in 1939 and try to conquer europe. Say they had proposed us sending troops over (with other contries) in 1935 and nullify the threat there and then (we can agree political discourse would have got us absolutely nowhere). If we had done that, we might be looking back at that saga now with incredible shame in how the UK behaved, with the rest of the world hating us and thinking we're barbarians. But we didn't do that, and in hindsight, we would probably be thinking 'why the **** didn't that guy force the issue'.

Suppose my point is that Iraq does pose a threat to us - maybe not directly since they had no weapons. But should we wait another 10yrs until they do pose a direct threat before doing something (and by then it may be impossible - like north korea atm). I think political discourse would have failed as emphatically as us trying to talk to Hitler, or us talking to the chinese at the moment.

And what can we do with north korea that doesn't involve the military? They're buddies with china ... maybe the media has misreported the situation, but I can't see how politics can do anything.

I've just realised - its strange that politically we're only close with other countries of the same race as us. But aye, that isn't racist! You may ask wtf this comment has to do with anything - answer is nothing

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRH_H_Crab View Post
everything.
You really do have a god complex about yourself. How is your incredible bias against impoversihed people living through hardships really any different the to BNP's bias based on race. Other than one is RACISM and therefore the height of pure unadulterated evilness.

I would really put you into the same category as the BNP in terms of people who's opinions should be discounted almost instantaneously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H
Why would anyone want to assume that when said government pretty much admitted to having had no evidence whatsoever and pretty much made up the whole WOMD thing?
Because if it came down to releasing things the public shouldn't see, or saying you ****ed up, I would rather see the latter. But even if they did lie, I still think there were potentially (not necessarily, I'm kinda playing devil's advocate here) valid reasons for invading - you may not agree, the next person might agree. But I don't believe tony blair is an evil man.

Last edited by newt; 11 Jun 2009 at 15:00.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 14:57   #255
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
My problem with all this is that - okay, since you've studied in this, you may well want to close your eyes now to avoid your brain exploding: lets say someone in 1935 in teh UK 'knew' germany were gonna go crazy in 1939 and try to conquer europe. Say they had proposed us sending troops over (with other contries) in 1935 and nullify the threat there and then (we can agree political discourse would have got us absolutely nowhere). If we had done that, we might be looking back at that saga now with incredible shame in how the UK behaved, with the rest of the world hating us and thinking we're barbarians. But we didn't do that, and in hindsight, we would probably be thinking 'why the **** didn't that guy force the issue'.
Well obviously the first lesson would be "giving extremism a genuine rallying call is a shit idea". There is a point that nobody could have known that, the universe just doesn't work that way. There's a good response to the "would you kill Hitler if you had a chance" question in "no, I'd sit down and try and talk to him". There always alternatives is really my point. I'd probably have supported a military invasion of Germany circa 1935 or so though.

Quote:
Suppose my point is that Iraq does pose a threat to us - maybe not directly since they had no weapons. But should we wait another 10yrs until they do pose a direct threat before doing something (and by then it may be impossible - like north korea atm).
Nobody could have known in 2003 that Iraq would invade the UK or anything like that. Ignoring that, no sensible analysts were proposing this as an even remote possibility either. Instead of worrying about future threats emerging maybe we would be better off focusing our efforts on productive and mutually beneficial methods of ensuring that no threats do emerge. Arabs aren't genetically predisposed towards invasion and murder. If you can believe you can restrain yourself from going around to your neighbour's and bashing his head in with a lead pipe because you want his TV there's no reason not to imagine that everyone else can't either.


Quote:
And what can we do with north korea that doesn't involve the military? They're buddies with china ... maybe the media has misreported the situation, but I can't see how politics can do anything.
They're hardly buddies. As Teddy Roosevelt said 'speak softly and carry a big stick'.

Quote:
I've just realised - its strange that politically we're only close with other countries of the same race as us. But aye, that isn't racist! You may ask wtf this comment has to do with anything - answer is nothing
Japan? There are obviously plenty of other examples heh.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 15:47   #256
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
You really do have a god complex about yourself. How is your incredible bias against impoversihed people living through hardships really any different the to BNP's bias based on race. Other than one is RACISM and therefore the height of pure unadulterated evilness.
While I am happy to admit that yes, some of the intellect displayed by posters in this thread has caused me to suffer surges of incredibly strong feelings of intellectual and moral superiority, I do think that there is a difference:

It is different because although it may not come across in my posts, I do not actually believe that all people suffering economic hardship are BNP supporters, and not all BNP supporters are poor people (I believe that Griffin is a millionaire?).

I believe that the BNP definitely seeks to exploit the economic hardships in certain areas where there is a racially diverse population though.

You may have had difficulty understanding this and somehow become confused about my opinions regarding people in difficult economic circumstances.

But yeah, I do believe that racism is unadulterated evilness, or abject stupidity of such an appalling degree that you really have to feel sorry for the individual concerned.

One of those two anyway.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 16:26   #257
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by HRH_H_Crab View Post
takes up a lot of space to quote an entire post
Get your head around this: As much as you pity and dislike the BNP and their supporters, some people (myself included, and I'm not even part of the group you're hurling shit at) feel equally about people like you.

You defend your actions and thoughts, the BNP can similarly justify their views and beliefs. Difference is, the BNP will probably think acknowledge they are morally on the bad side, whereas you probably think you're awesome and everything. That makes you worse, especially since you're seemingly intelligent.

If there's one problem bigger in this country than the racial split and consequent problems, its the class-split, which you're emphasising spectacularly.

Last edited by newt; 11 Jun 2009 at 16:43.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 16:32   #258
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by J
I'd probably have supported a military invasion of Germany circa 1935 or so though.
Thats with all the evidence researched in hindsight - would you have supported an action like that at the time? Or even 5yrs later. Probably not.

Quote:
Nobody could have known in 2003 that Iraq would invade the UK or anything like that.
Germany weren't going to invade England either... they were hostile towards the countries around them though, we still had to step in. Similarly, one can assume a madman like Hussain would have been hostile to someone (eg Kuwait? grrr I'm a bit too busy to be arsed googling to make up for the huge gaps in my knowledge).

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Japan? There are obviously plenty of other examples heh.
I wouldn't say we're politically 'close' to Japan & the others you were thinking of. Maybe I'm wrong and its my own personal racism which makes me think that though. Or rather, the lack of news stories about our closeness.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 16:42   #259
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by HRH_H_Crab View Post
While I am happy to admit that yes, some of the intellect displayed by posters in this thread has caused me to suffer surges of incredibly strong feelings of intellectual and moral superiority, I do think that there is a difference:

It is different because although it may not come across in my posts, I do not actually believe that all people suffering economic hardship are BNP supporters, and not all BNP supporters are poor people (I believe that Griffin is a millionaire?).

I believe that the BNP definitely seeks to exploit the economic hardships in certain areas where there is a racially diverse population though.

You may have had difficulty understanding this and somehow become confused about my opinions regarding people in difficult economic circumstances.

But yeah, I do believe that racism is unadulterated evilness, or abject stupidity of such an appalling degree that you really have to feel sorry for the individual concerned.

One of those two anyway.
So you're saying, poor people are racists.. (or at least, alot more likely to be racist)
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 16:48   #260
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Re: The BNP

To clarrify my reply to HRH_H_Crab a bit more:

Quote:
You may have had difficulty understanding this and somehow become confused about my opinions regarding people in difficult economic circumstances.
If you havent intended to come over as an incredibly prejudiced biggot with regards to class, then don't blame me that you have done just that. Learn how to put your thoughts across in a non-extremist fashion. For example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by H
fascists have exploited economic hardship to hoodwink less than intelligent voters.

That is how I believe Hitler came to power, not that I can be bothered to find any evidence. I daresay that most of the people that voted for the BNP in 2004 came from economically deprived shitholes which I would argue backs up my lazy assertion.
That is exceptionally prejudiced! E X C E P T I O N A L L Y !

Also you saying its less than intelligent people who vote for the BNP, or people economically deprived. Lets say I had actually decided to vote BNP. I can assure you I'm not intellectually challenged. Nor is my family, or the immediate area I live in, economically deprived.

edit: your thoughts are a bit like me saying: All muslims are idiots - they must be to believe in their religion and treat women as second class humans. As such, I pity them and their political opinions are terrible - should be ignored. Now just sit back behind your computer and think "wow newt is being racist there! what an arsehole" - and try to think about your own thoughts, based purely on class and your perception of what intelligence is.

edit #2: An example of how you may phrase your thoughts in a sensible non-shit manner as you have been doing (implying you have a serious prejudice on the matter in general) is thus:

The BNP are using the economical split in the country to try and gain support. They are trying to drum up feelings of apathy in areas of the country which have not flourished over the past century as well as others. Its easy to try and brainwash people who feel hard done by into your way of thinking, especially if you're promising them a better future and so forth.

You know, something like that. Calling (more ranting at) the North east/west economically deprived shitholes full of stupid people that vote the BNP because they're poor and prolly racist is the definition of prejudice. Especially since the BNP have got votes throughout the country - especially the east midlands. Also got ~140000? votes in the sotuh east - I wasn't realising that area was an economically depreived shithole either.

Last edited by newt; 11 Jun 2009 at 17:31.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 17:40   #261
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Thats with all the evidence researched in hindsight - would you have supported an action like that at the time? Or even 5yrs later. Probably not.
That's with everything that was known by Western governments at that time period. Obviously I'm trying not to include events that only happened after that point.

Quote:
Germany weren't going to invade England either... they were hostile towards the countries around them though, we still had to step in. Similarly, one can assume a madman like Hussain would have been hostile to someone (eg Kuwait? grrr I'm a bit too busy to be arsed googling to make up for the huge gaps in my knowledge).
Nazi Germany was a far more aggressively expansionistic regime and a far more capable one realistically. Bear in mind I don't think unilateral action would have been a good idea, it rarely is really. If the UK invades Germany what happens next in 1935? Brutal war, best case scenario won by the UK and Hitler removed from power. What then? You've just invaded a country which wasn't threatening you and created generations worth of resentment. Are you going to occupy the country for the next thousand years and suppress any moves towards political independence? What's your exit strategy, forcibly implement the same sort of liberal democracy that just got tossed aside? Pretty much any history textbook will tell you that two of the main factors in the rise of Nazism were anger over Versailles and reparations etc and the economic problems affecting the country at the time. Do you think people won't be angry about getting invaded and occupied? Do you think an occupied country which has just been through a brutal war which will probably have destroyed most of its infrastructure and killed millions of its people is going to be economically successful without enormous outside investment?

Quote:
I wouldn't say we're politically 'close' to Japan & the others you were thinking of. Maybe I'm wrong and its my own personal racism which makes me think that though. Or rather, the lack of news stories about our closeness.
I dunno where to begin here. Japan's in the OECD, there are US troops stationed in the country, the US is probably Japan's closest ally, they deployed troops to Iraq originally, it's in the G8 etc etc. For obvious historical and geographical reasons the UK is politically closer to a number of other countries but it's hardly like there's a political closeness ranking system which is determined by race heh.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 20:40   #262
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Re: The BNP

Right this is an interesting thread and I'm resurrecting it; a proper debate please, I don't care how wrong you think the other guy is, nor do I care how wrong you are.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 20:54   #263
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Re: The BNP

I bet I'm going to stay awake longer than you are tonight - so this battle will be won by me.

JBG is an idiot. Everything he jsut said is beyond idiotic.

I wan't explain why. Nor will I give my own opinions.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 20:56   #264
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Re: The BNP

People who are bad at history shouldn't be allowed to make un-supported assertions that the past (any period) was 'better' than now

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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 20:57   #265
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Re: The BNP

So, you aren't allowed to give opinions unless you're a semi expert in the area?

Go read the ****ing definition of a democracy a few times you ****ing gibbering monkey.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 21:02   #266
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by HRH_H_Crab View Post
The lax laws you talk about have been vogue in all capitalist countries for pretty much all of my lifetime (I'm nearly 40). I think its a bit unfair to blame the current Labour government for that.

Yes, people are stupid when they believe the shit that Labour and the Conservatives throw at them, but I think that most people with some intelligence would agree that the shit thrown by Labour and the Tories is slightly more sophisticated than the idiocy which pours forth from the BNP.

But yes, you are right, its a fancier form of the same sort of thing - instead of appealing to brain damaged individuals that believe that immigration is the cause of their problems, they are appealing to middle England idiots that want to drive 4x4s and send their children to posh schools and are worried about their mortgages and pensions.

I disagree with you when you say that all politicians are corrupt and lazy.
I think that Ken Livingstone is a pretty decent bloke. I would like to buy him a pint and discuss newts (if not Newt) and ask him if he could get me Hugo Chavez's autograph.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 21:04   #267
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Re: The BNP

I hope your cock isnt too big for his bum. Though I must admit, chances of that are slim.

ps: everything in jbg's long post above is idiotic. Beyond idiotic. But I won't explain why, nor will I give my own views.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 21:06   #268
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Re: The BNP

Every woman adores a Fascist,
The boot in the face, the brute
Brute heart of a brute like you.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 21:08   #269
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Re: The BNP

I might give you the email of one of my mates - bit of a poet, though mostly greek/latin poems. You two might hit it off big time.

But he is from burnley! But hmm, if he voted BNP I would eat my own shit.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 21:10   #270
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
So, you aren't allowed to give opinions unless you're a semi expert in the area?

Having a basic background knowledge of history before basing statements of 'fact' on it, is hardly unreasonable.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 21:10   #271
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Re: The BNP

I don't even have to read your post to know that whatever ASG said is ****ing retarded.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 21:11   #272
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Re: The BNP

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ps: everything in jbg's long post above is idiotic. Beyond idiotic. But I won't explain why, nor will I give my own views.
Being a self confessed ignoramus reagarding history, how can you possibly have any opinion either way?
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 21:11   #273
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Re: The BNP

And again.
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Unread 11 Jun 2009, 21:19   #274
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Re: The BNP

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6481475.ece

If he had links to the torys or to labour? would it make the news?
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 03:43   #275
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Re: The BNP

Just thought I mention I vote bnp have done for along time and where I live more and more people are voting bnp my uncles a speaker for them where I live. I have been to a few bnp parties in my area. Anyone who doesn't comprehend bnps policies is an idiot, labour does nothing but ruin england conservative saves money yes won't deny that but never takes risks to spend it then labour gets in power as people want action labour then spends the money people are angry not spent wisely the cycle continues. Maybe the british people should understand something we need change something new, something with vision, something with a great belief in itself. I am not saying bnp the best party ever but to be honest they seem the one with the most common sense.
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 08:14   #276
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Re: The BNP

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I am not saying bnp the best party ever but to be honest they seem the one with the most common sense.
Common sense isn't that common. Most who espouse 'common sense' policies generally lack any common sense themselves.
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 09:05   #277
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Re: The BNP

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Common sense isn't that common. Most who espouse 'common sense' policies generally lack any common sense themselves.
That's a rather wild assumption considering you never met them.
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 09:34   #278
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
So you're saying, poor people are racists.. (or at least, alot more likely to be racist)
No Light, that's not what I am saying. I have tried (and failed) to explain this to Newt, but I haven't given up hope for you yet so I will try again:

1. The BNP choose areas with high levels of immigration and poor economic conditions within which to try and get support, effectively exploiting poor education.

2. Some of the people that they target end up supporting them. Those people (I believe) are generally of a lower than average intelligence. The more intelligent ones (who may be equally or even more economically challenged) will most likely not end up supporting the BNP.

And for the record, I am happy to admit that I may well be prejudiced against BNP supporters and racists. I do not want them either marrying my sister, or living next door to me.
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 11:14   #279
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Demort View Post
Just thought I mention I vote bnp have done for along time and where I live more and more people are voting bnp my uncles a speaker for them where I live. I have been to a few bnp parties in my area. Anyone who doesn't comprehend bnps policies is an idiot, labour does nothing but ruin england conservative saves money yes won't deny that but never takes risks to spend it then labour gets in power as people want action labour then spends the money people are angry not spent wisely the cycle continues. Maybe the british people should understand something we need change something new, something with vision, something with a great belief in itself. I am not saying bnp the best party ever but to be honest they seem the one with the most common sense.
They're also a safe vote, as they'll never be in power so you'll never have to worry about whether your belief in them is justified. Their actual policies make a lot less sense than any mainstream party policy, but that doesn't matter much, as you voting for them is not enough for them to gain the power to prove it.
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 11:37   #280
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Re: The BNP

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Anyone who doesn't comprehend bnps policies is an idiot...they seem the one with the most common sense.
If by common sense you mean an irrational drive towards socialism and what can only be described as a list of ways to crash our economy, then sure.


Sure, some of their ideas are alright, but an obsession with protectionism and propping up inefficient businesses when other countries have massive competitive advantages hasn't worked well in the long term anywhere, afaik?
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 12:25   #281
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Re: The BNP

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That's a rather wild assumption considering you never met them.
I admit I phrased it quite badly but my point was this:

People (particularly politicians, the media or any one espousing a particular viewpoint) who back up their argument by claiming it is 'common sense' generally don't have an argument which most people would not find to be offensive or invalid'.

Common sense has a lot in common with the phrase 'national security.' it does exist but in most cases it's use is to implement a policy which is the antithesis of the words they have used.
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 14:04   #282
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by HRH_H_Crab View Post
1. The BNP choose areas with high levels of immigration and poor economic conditions within which to try and get support, effectively exploiting poor education.
So if Labour or Conservatives were doing there job, there wouldnt be poor education..

Quote:
2. Some of the people that they target end up supporting them. Those people (I believe) are generally of a lower than average intelligence. The more intelligent ones (who may be equally or even more economically challenged) will most likely not end up supporting the BNP.
Who's being prejudice now? I love how to backup your low opinions of the BNP, you have to turn prejudice

Quote:
And for the record, I am happy to admit that I may well be prejudiced against BNP supporters and racists. I do not want them either marrying my sister, or living next door to me.
So you're saying its not ok for people for people to be prejudice? but you're prejudice? I dont understand you're argument, you cant stamp out prejudice with more prejudice.
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 14:29   #283
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Re: The BNP

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So if Labour or Conservatives were doing there job, there wouldnt be poor education..
I think that a fascist state would probably lead to just as many if not more poorly educated people, given that their education would be based on a pretty blinkered view of society. Also, education isn't just about what is provided but it's about application by the individual, which the state can't really be accountable for.

Quote:
Who's being prejudice now? I love how to backup your low opinions of the BNP, you have to turn prejudice
The nature of the BNP is that they look to exploit racial division by suggesting that the white indigenous population have some kind of special entitlement to a job, receiving public services and the like. Naturally, this appeals to those who are more economically deprived, who generally are less well educated. I prefer a meritocracy where people earn the right to have a job and pay taxes so they can have the public services they want (or preferably, pay for them privately). Given the number of professionals and the like from a non-white british background, never mind the fact that foreigners do jobs that while people flat out turn down, my suggestion would be to try harder rather than vote BNP.

Ethnic background should be pretty much an irrelevancy in this day and age, and it should be about how well the individual applies themselves, acts responsibly and earns their right to live and work here, regardless of their place of birth. And those people are quite unlucky in some ways; there are people who are born in the UK who are given a wealth of opportunity and pretty much spurn it all.

The problem with the BNP is that the rationale behind their policies seem to suggest we're better than everyone else simply by virtue of coming from Britain. We're not. It's as if they want a society that's objectively worse because they have insane principles they wish to impose on us all regardless of the consequences.

I mean the racism is terrible but really the BNP is a stupid stupid party.
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 14:39   #284
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
So if Labour or Conservatives were doing there job, there wouldnt be poor education..

Who's being prejudice now? I love how to backup your low opinions of the BNP, you have to turn prejudice

So you're saying its not ok for people for people to be prejudice? but you're prejudice? I dont understand you're argument, you cant stamp out prejudice with more prejudice.
Lets keep the Torys and Labour out of this Light, because I suspect that neither of us are great fans of either of them and having an argument about something which we probably don't hold hugely different opinions about is probably a bit counter productive.

I'm not interested in stamping out prejudice, but I wouldn't mind seeing racists fascists and their supporters physically stamped out with a large Monty Python style foot, but believe it or not I respect peoples right to hold a different view to me on this subject.

(Until such time that I have the luxury of getting my knee in the small of their back and my hands around their windpipe).
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Unread 12 Jun 2009, 14:45   #285
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
The nature of the BNP is that they look to exploit racial division by suggesting that the white indigenous population have some kind of special entitlement to a job, receiving public services and the like. Naturally, this appeals to those who are more economically deprived, who generally are less well educated. I prefer a meritocracy where people earn the right to have a job and pay taxes so they can have the public services they want (or preferably, pay for them privately). Given the number of professionals and the like from a non-white british background, never mind the fact that foreigners do jobs that while people flat out turn down, my suggestion would be to try harder rather than vote BNP.
I dont see the mention of skin-color on any of there policys.

Quote:
Ethnic background should be pretty much an irrelevancy in this day and age, and it should be about how well the individual applies themselves, acts responsibly and earns their right to live and work here, regardless of their place of birth. And those people are quite unlucky in some ways; there are people who are born in the UK who are given a wealth of opportunity and pretty much spurn it all.
So, you're for a completly open-borders system? and anyone who suggests something else is racists due to discriminating due to tehnic background? I think thats alittle narrow minded, considering thats the exact reason BNP got the votes it did.

That we're not allowed to debate anything about immigrating, were not allowed to debate scaling back our EU commitments, were not allowed to talk about political correctness. They're all taboo subjects, if we're not allowed to debate them without being called racist.. who is there to vote for or agree with when we dont agree with whats being implemented? the extremists.

Quote:
The problem with the BNP is that the rationale behind their policies seem to suggest we're better than everyone else simply by virtue of coming from Britain. We're not. It's as if they want a society that's objectively worse because they have insane principles they wish to impose on us all regardless of the consequences.
There have been alot of protests lately, for "British Jobs for British People", Gordon brown even agree'd with that? thats exactly what BNP campaign for but when they say it, they're racists.

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I mean the racism is terrible but really the BNP is a stupid stupid party.
Dont blame the party, blame how stupid the system is... If we elect who to govern us based on publicity and word-of mouth, rather than facts and the grounds of who will do a better job for us. We only really ever have a choice between Labour and Conservatives, i'd hardly call that a completly open and free democrasy system which thrives to serve Britain the best

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I'm not interested in stamping out prejudice, but I wouldn't mind seeing racists fascists and their supporters physically stamped out with a large Monty Python style foot, but believe it or not I respect peoples right to hold a different view to me on this subject.
Thats all im doing, I dont agree with BNP policys nor would i ever like 99% of them put in place. However, i will defend there right to respresentation and completly condone those that protost against them or suggest that they shouldnt be allowed to run a democratic party (i mean, wtf is that? picking and choosing who can run in a democrasy? lol).
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Unread 13 Jun 2009, 22:57   #286
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Re: The BNP

Nick Griffin quotes.

On the holocaust:

"I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also also once held that the Earth was flat... I have reached the conclusion that the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria." (1998 - Statement outside court)

On the election of BNP candidate Derek Beacon:

"the electors of Millwall did not back a post modernist rightist party but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan 'Defend Rights for Whites' with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate." (1995 - writing in The Rune)

On homosexuality:

"The TV footage of dozens of gay demonstrators flaunting their perversions in front of the world's journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures so repulsive." (1999 - writing for Spearhead)

"So, what are we now doing with the British National Party? Well we tried to simplify its message in some ways and to make it a saleable message. So it's not white supremacy or racial civil war or anything like that, which is what we know in fact is going on, and we're not supremacists, we're white survivalists, even that frightens people. Four apple pie words, freedom, security, identity and democracy." (2001 - Speech to the American Friends of the BNP)

posting random quotations is a bit noob but these are quite interesting.
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Unread 13 Jun 2009, 23:00   #287
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Re: The BNP

I get that he's a racist so he says racist things. but the homophobia? do you think it's because he mings?
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Unread 13 Jun 2009, 23:37   #288
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Re: The BNP

his hair is terribly greasy
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Unread 13 Jun 2009, 23:52   #289
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Re: The BNP

facists have never been physically attractive.

(I'm sure there is nothing in this fact)
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Unread 27 Jun 2009, 03:09   #290
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Re: The BNP

newt you are a ****ing imbecile
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Unread 28 Jun 2009, 00:15   #291
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Re: The BNP

England is such a mix of races as you go back, it's totally retarded to feel somehow violated by people coming in.
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Unread 28 Jun 2009, 06:42   #292
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Re: The BNP

Being 'elitist with regard to national origin' sounds pretty much like the nazis ranking races in order of superiority in the 1930s to me. But lets not a bit of history get in the way of things!
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Unread 29 Jun 2009, 09:27   #293
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Re: The BNP

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Being 'elitist with regard to national origin' sounds pretty much like the nazis ranking races in order of superiority in the 1930s to me. But lets not a bit of history get in the way of things!
At least we were #1
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Unread 10 Aug 2009, 15:21   #294
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Exclamation Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Yahwe View Post
facists have never been physically attractive.
Absolute bollocks.
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Unread 10 Aug 2009, 20:11   #295
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson View Post
Absolute bollocks.
I'd quite like an example.
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Unread 10 Aug 2009, 20:59   #296
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Re: The BNP

"I have often been called a Nazi, and, although it is unfair, I don't let it bother me. I don't let it bother me for one simple reason. No one has ever had a fantasy about being tied to a bed and sexually ravished by someone dressed as a liberal."

- P. J. O'Rourke
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Unread 10 Aug 2009, 21:33   #297
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Re: The BNP

thats my fantasy
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Unread 11 Aug 2009, 07:13   #298
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Re: The BNP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio View Post
"I have often been called a Nazi, and, although it is unfair, I don't let it bother me. I don't let it bother me for one simple reason. No one has ever had a fantasy about being tied to a bed and sexually ravished by someone dressed as a liberal."

- P. J. O'Rourke
I quite deliberately phrased my point so as to exclude perverse fantasy.

Do pay attention.
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 17:09   #299
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Exclamation Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Yahwe View Post
I'd quite like an example.
Well I know you've tried to consumate a relationship with one in the past, so I'm surprised you would take the line here that you have.

Fascists are just chavs but with shiny boots. Think of it like that.
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