Second thing FAnG are famous for

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Kal

other games give out life time bans.....

surly it depends in what way they cheated and fro what reason

How do you ban someone in an anonymous world?

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Rumad

How do you ban someone in an anonymous world?

Would that be the world where vouches and reputation are required to join any decent alliance?

[Razorback]

if pa indeed would have offered somekind of a rewardscheme for players in the past, losing everything, i.e. getting banned, would be quiet a pain.
Alongside a public announcement and slandering campaign of the person and last but not least his ip, userdetails, emailaddy and ircnick beeing suspended/blocked.

Sounds harsh but puts abit force behind the empty threats.

Additionally the threatening to those alliances who sleep around with cheaters to get penalties up their ass, i.e. memberlists beeing published or allianceeta be removed. I think the last 2 steps would make every hc to be a first class multihunter and cheatfinder.
If you combine it with the need to report why someone was kicked from his alliance (ingame pull down menue) you would have the perfect view of who was kicked for cheating (investigate if true) and what alliance actually takes steps against cheaters or supposed to be cheaters.

The problem is exactly burried in rumads words, hope for anonymity and that youre not caught, if youre not caught go on. If caught go to the losing party of last round, they surely will try to get good players at any cost to cover their defections and quitters, admittingly without asking many questions.
Or to add a dig, apply to fang where everyone is innocent until he admits himself, is closed and there are 500 other evidences.

*edit* its soooo full of mistakes that i cba to correct them since i write an exam in 20h so sod off if you dont get what i mean. *edit*

[newt]

Forest, you cheating scum, how about getting off your high horse and stop being so hypocritical?

... Unless you're saying its just ppl who cheat nowadays (when PA is all but dead) that are the scum of society and should be castrated - whereas those who cheated in ... oh I dunno, r8 for example (or was it r9?), are ok.

I personally have nothing against cheaters - its always gone on, so why make such a big fuss!? god you morons are exasperating at times. especially the hypocrits amongst you.

[Stifler]

Originally Posted by Newt

Forest, you cheating scum, how about getting off your high horse and stop being so hypocritical?

... Unless you're saying its just ppl who cheat nowadays (when PA is all but dead) that are the scum of society and should be castrated - whereas those who cheated in ... oh I dunno, r8 for example (or was it r9?), are ok.

I personally have nothing against cheaters - its always gone on, so why make such a big fuss!? god you morons are exasperating at times. especially the hypocrits amongst you.

So if you were ever winning and then didnt because a cheater got past you, you would be ok with this? even though they didnt deserve that position

[newt]

If I had never cheated in PA ... then I'd probably be pissed off. As it is I cheated liek a Forest in r6 (to help myself) and r7 (to help others) .. and I once had a flatmate log in for me in r8 to stop my fleet suiciding itself when i was top60 or so.

So although I never cheated to get a super big rank, for me the big word "hypocrit" would still come into play.

This doesn't seem to be the case for Forest or I would say 90% of ppl on this forum.

[G.K Zhukov]

I hate it when you make sense Focht

[Heartless]

Originally Posted by Razorback

Or to add a dig, apply to fang where everyone is innocent until he admits himself, is closed and there are 500 other evidences.

Just as innocent as the Ecl and earlier the Fury block ever was.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by xtothez

Would that be the world where vouches and reputation are required to join any decent alliance?

everyone has friends who will vouch for someone using a fake nick - done it myself in past rounds for different reasons.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Razorback

if pa indeed would have offered somekind of a rewardscheme for players in the past, losing everything, i.e. getting banned, would be quiet a pain.
Alongside a public announcement and slandering campaign of the person and last but not least his ip, userdetails, emailaddy and ircnick beeing suspended/blocked.

Sounds harsh but puts abit force behind the empty threats.

Additionally the threatening to those alliances who sleep around with cheaters to get penalties up their ass, i.e. memberlists beeing published or allianceeta be removed. I think the last 2 steps would make every hc to be a first class multihunter and cheatfinder.
If you combine it with the need to report why someone was kicked from his alliance (ingame pull down menue) you would have the perfect view of who was kicked for cheating (investigate if true) and what alliance actually takes steps against cheaters or supposed to be cheaters.

The problem is exactly burried in rumads words, hope for anonymity and that youre not caught, if youre not caught go on. If caught go to the losing party of last round, they surely will try to get good players at any cost to cover their defections and quitters, admittingly without asking many questions.
Or to add a dig, apply to fang where everyone is innocent until he admits himself, is closed and there are 500 other evidences.

*edit* its soooo full of mistakes that i cba to correct them since i write an exam in 20h so sod off if you dont get what i mean. *edit*

Firstly there is a debate about reward/penalties for players that cheat and are caught. But you totally neglect the big percentage of cheats that go undetected. Fury had one round 5 who was in wrath (forget his name but he moved bac and fro from fury to legion, but he finished t5). But you start punishing for the not so clever how do you find the very clever?

Then you have what I said - the truth is in the fact that everyone on the internet uses a persona - and I know from past experience that players can use old players nicks wh have quit pa quite effectively to get a new persona or even completely pretend to be someone else and start building up frinedships and status.

You cannot effectively bar someone from a game and should you in fact do that when you consider that its their choice and there money they lose if they cheat. Also to put the policing on the HC's of various alliances is a bit much. HC's are dedicated to ensuring the betterment of there communities which this would include, but on changing th emphasis from game technicians (multihunters) to HC's means HC's get more responsibility on top of that they have already agreed to in there community.

We cannot effectively police it, nor would i agree with it. I am a believer in that individuals should be given opportunity to proove they have rehabilitated. The community is already small and by throwing out more people you mae it smaller.

Perhaps a 3 strikes and your out policy is possible, but how do you make it work? As already stated everyone has anonymity on the internet as you are rarely "yourself". How do you actually stop someone signing up again?

Also how do you know the truth behind the whisper you hear about the deletion? How can you proove that that person you are about to kick has actually cheated?

Then you have the issue of double standards. 50% of the people saying cheating is bad HAVE CHEATED at one point or another (including you). How can that be fair and reasonable?

*EDIT* GL with your exam

[Chika]

annnnnnddddd this is a part 2 to the other thread. So I have no new arguement. Someone pull a new topic out of thier arse so I can comment on it.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Razorback

if pa indeed would have offered somekind of a rewardscheme for players in the past, losing everything, i.e. getting banned, would be quiet a pain.
Alongside a public announcement and slandering campaign of the person and last but not least his ip, userdetails, emailaddy and ircnick beeing suspended/blocked.

Sounds harsh but puts abit force behind the empty threats.

Additionally the threatening to those alliances who sleep around with cheaters to get penalties up their ass, i.e. memberlists beeing published or allianceeta be removed. I think the last 2 steps would make every hc to be a first class multihunter and cheatfinder.
If you combine it with the need to report why someone was kicked from his alliance (ingame pull down menue) you would have the perfect view of who was kicked for cheating (investigate if true) and what alliance actually takes steps against cheaters or supposed to be cheaters.

The problem is exactly burried in rumads words, hope for anonymity and that youre not caught, if youre not caught go on. If caught go to the losing party of last round, they surely will try to get good players at any cost to cover their defections and quitters, admittingly without asking many questions.
Or to add a dig, apply to fang where everyone is innocent until he admits himself, is closed and there are 500 other evidences.

*edit* its soooo full of mistakes that i cba to correct them since i write an exam in 20h so sod off if you dont get what i mean. *edit*

If your remove the ETA advantage in an alliance cause they have a cheater then it'll change PA to an entire new strategy. Like spying, alliances might put cheaters in other alliances that "conveniently" get caught (using a fake nick etc). That way, you easily handicap your enemy.

Punishing is good thing, yet there should be a more suble punishment, one that cannot be abused so obviously.

rgds Kj

P.S. gl on yer exam

[newt]

anyone else amused by all this?

I've been around long enough to know that the vast majority of you will have cheated at some point, even those amongst you who are driving the bandwagon (lo Forest).

Cheating will always go on. Known cheaters will always be accepted into at least one of the top alliances, whether it be that they change IRC nicks and re-create themselves .. or are low profile enough for hcs not to give a shit. You can't change this.

Also, lets face it, cheaters give you all summat to talk about on AD. Think of planetarion without any scandals over the years. urgh!! eg the touriqet scandal this round - sure , hes a bad egg that should have been put down at birth and you all wish you could og over and rub shit in his face before running it through a meat grinder ... but it all added a bit of 'fun' to another wise dismally boring round.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Newt

Cheating will always go on. Known cheaters will always be accepted into at least one of the top alliances, whether it be that they change IRC nicks and re-create themselves .. or are low profile enough for hcs not to give a shit. You can't change this.

Indeed.

I think it's more a degree of cheating though. Like you said, you got a flatmate to recall you when you were set to land and die, etc etc. That is ok. I don't think I'd delete you on that, as long as it was a one off.

For instance, in round 7 I was playing in a gal with ChipZ^. He's a real life mate, who introduced me to PA. We'd go round to each other's houses and login occasionally for each other (comps had saved passwords) while the other was there. Say, I'd be watching TV and go "can you do my res/con on my comp, I cba" and he'd go "ok". Of course, that's cheating, but it's nothing on the scale of farming or multying properly is it?

So yeah, cheating is always a part of PA - the game lends itself to it. But some are a lot worse than others.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

We'd go round to each other's houses and login occasionally for each other (comps had saved passwords) while the other was there....

that's cheating....

So even when you weren't at each others houses you had access to each others accounts?

[newt]

I'd just prefer the people who lay into cheaters, asking for them to be banned - to not have cheated in the past themselves.

I don't know about the rest of you, but since I know Forest cheated in the past (swapping accounts from galaxy to galaxy and so forth) beyond any shadow of doubt - I'd be quite sure that a lot of the other 'leaders' of the anti-cheating campaign are similar.

It's annoying. Especially Forest's extremely arrogant approach to it all. Well, to anything AD related.

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by Newt

It's annoying. Especially Forest's extremely arrogant approach to it all. Well, to anything AD related.

You'd think he'd have changed during those 5 years...

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

So even when you weren't at each others houses you had access to each others accounts?

Yes, my username/password was saved on his, and his was on mine. We didn't actually know each other's logins, but on each of our computers they were saved. So yes, we had access to each other's accounts. Didn't use it unless the other was there though.

[Baddars]

http://www.eviltone.pwp.blueyonder.c...s/capacity.jpg

[Hicks]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Yes, my username/password was saved on his, and his was on mine. We didn't actually know each other's logins, but on each of our computers they were saved. So yes, we had access to each other's accounts. Didn't use it unless the other was there though.

Cheating

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Hicks

Cheating

What he said I'm afraid. Doesn't matter which way you look at it you have the availability to use each others accounts.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

What he said I'm afraid. Doesn't matter which way you look at it you have the availability to use each others accounts.

I know it's cheating!
That was my point. It was cheating, yet there are certain degrees of cheating. I wouldn't say that was particularly serious. It was hardly as if we were farming, or using each other's planets without the other present.

My point is that cheating goes on throughout planetarion. You can stick your head in the ground all you want, and pretend you know nothing of it, but that's just stupid.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

I know it's cheating!
That was my point. It was cheating, yet there are certain degrees of cheating. I wouldn't say that was particularly serious. It was hardly as if we were farming, or using each other's planets without the other present.

My point is that cheating goes on throughout planetarion. You can stick your head in the ground all you want, and pretend you know nothing of it, but that's just stupid.

I'm not disagreeing with you on any of those points apart from playing down your act. Of course you say those accounts were never used by each other, but it's kinda hard to believe. Just like Newt saying he got someone else to recall his fleet to stop it being trashed and saying that "wasn't such bad cheating", ofc it is. If he hadn't account shared he would have lost his fleet, it has a direct impact on the game.

There are no grey area's of cheating. Cheating is cheating and it enevitably ends up scrrewing someone over by means of unfair play.

[newt]

lol.. I would have lost my fleet?

don't be a dumbass!

I would have just skipped the lectures innit if someone wasn't willing to enter the pigsty that was my room and click on recall.

oh, and although its just my word on this - how many others in PA who live with other people playing planetarion would only have cheated once in an entire round - especially considering you and your flatmates have completely different body clocks. I think I did pretty well *pats self on head and eats a cookie*

[Tomkat]

You rock Newt ;D

[Goatsemaster]

Originally Posted by xtothez

Weathermen aren't trolling when they give warning about the arrival of a hurricane, lightning storm, or other natural disaster to a city.
So why I am trolling when I warn of your imminent arrival in a thread?

Pointing out the predictibility of morons is provocation without adding anything to the discussion.

[LEFF|pm]

Originally Posted by xtothez

Would that be the world where vouches and reputation are required to join any decent alliance?

According to your boards you vouched for walken...

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

According to your boards you vouched for walken...

According to pa you have been closed.
Point ?
Xtothez's trust might have been abused by someone, dissappointments happen and Ely unless Fang immdieately removed walken from their rooster, while fang was always hoping for a miraculous reopening or looking for another cheap excuse they could try to go off on.

Pot calling cattle black, didnt you just reinvite Irvine to become Fang hc in r10.5 ?

[LEFF|pm]

I got walken closed although he was my GC and I considered him being a friend. Later on I apologized for that as I clearleh did a mistake in helping a biased multihunter crew who arbitrarily closed and reopend planets during that round, me included. But ofc you wont be informed of this since according to pa you dont even play nor does your alliance even exist who could tell you about.

Wanna go on?

Are you actually aware of you denying xtotheZ the right to speak for himself? You should have a little more confidence in your former allies... or did you in fact discouvered a new ambition to stand up for Ely while fighting for them last round and want to continue this tradition on the boards now ?

On a sidenote a lil story from Neocron.

On our server once existed an indeed impressing Clan. Most of the time they were around our relations were quite good. They presumably had the best Players at the early stages of the game and 2 or 3 of them winning vs entire Clans of 10 and more Runners was rather common then something special. They even were feared and respected after they started to get inactive and later on totally left the game and their outposts still were untouched weeks after the last of their members cancelled his account.
But since they appeared to be bored, they kept spamming the boards by telling everyone how great they were. They just kept repeating, that none of the current existing Clans would ever have had a fair chance vs their team when they still were around and gave arrogant comments on current politics like they still would dominate the world. Their ambition in doing this was so great, that slowly but steadily the entire community got pissed off, and nowadays their remembrance is nothing more then a joke.
But unlike other Clans who just have a laugh and attack abusers on the boards ingame they cant do anything else then either swallow it or make even a bigger joke of themselves by flaming on without the slightest chance to ever restore their reputation...

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Razorback

According to pa you have been closed.
Point ?
Xtothez's trust might have been abused by someone, dissappointments happen and Ely unless Fang immdieately removed walken from their rooster, while fang was always hoping for a miraculous reopening or looking for another cheap excuse they could try to go off on.

Pot calling cattle black, didnt you just reinvite Irvine to become Fang hc in r10.5 ?

1: LEFF isn't HC nor doesn't even play r10.5. So no, he did not reinvite Irvine to become FAnG HC again. Get your data right if you're retired, out of the loop but STILL wanna respond on stuff.

2. Like LEFF said, Xto is capable enough to reply for himself.

3: The point in leff saying he vouched Walken, is that Xto claims FAnG vouches cheaters etc. He vouches Walken and as you said, his trust got abused. Odd isn't it, when it happens with him it's "his trust has been abused" and when it happens with us it's more like "he vouches a cheater" ...

stop using double standards.

to LEFF, nice story about Seader Krupp, I knew some pple in there but luckily they never had to fight us

rgds Kj

[BLACK_OPPS]

the 2nd thing fang is know for is Rumads th0ng danceing ta

[LB|away]

Originally Posted by BLACK_OPPS

the 2nd thing fang is know for is Rumads th0ng danceing ta

what about my boyband :'(

[newt]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

2. Like LEFF said, Xto is capable enough to reply for himself.

i always find it funny when you all go into your hypocritical modes.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Newt

i always find it funny when you all go into your hypocritical modes.

care to explain, respected and integer AD poster ... ?

[newt]

I'll leave you to ponder about that one. It isn't rocket science so I'm sure you'll get there in the end.

[LB|away]

Originally Posted by Newt

i always find it funny when you all go into your hypocritical modes.

what about me?

[newt]

You don't have a hypocritical bone in your body! But if you did I'd find all your posts even more lolly rofflingly funny, and prolly get the urge to load up your netgamers gallery pic and give my trophy a good polishing. Which I do every morning anyway.

[LB|away]

Originally Posted by Newt

You don't have a hypocritical bone in your body! But if you did I'd find all your posts even more lolly rofflingly funny, and prolly get the urge to load up your netgamers gallery pic and give my trophy a good polishing. Which I do every morning anyway.

newt you nub, you are retired and funny.... hush it now peon

[newt]

no!!

I'm even (for the first time ever I hasten to add) disobeying Mitre by continuing to post on the forums. So I'm not gonna start obeying you

Must be reaching a mid life crisis - can't resist the temptation to rebel against the powers that be. But AD is about as interesting as an ant's life, so I tend to stick to PD these days. A lot more random retards to have digs at.

[LB|away]

Originally Posted by Newt

no!!

I'm even (for the first time ever I hasten to add) disobeying Mitre by continuing to post on the forums. So I'm not gonna start obeying you

Must be reaching a mid life crisis - can't resist the temptation to rebel against the powers that be. But AD is about as interesting as an ant's life, so I tend to stick to PD these days. A lot more random retards to have digs at.

wait till you come on wemeethere
I'll whip yer ass till it bleeds!

AD rawks though
I will start posting on it too
to get some more intelligence on the forums

[newt]

Originally Posted by LB|away

I will start posting on it too
to get some more intelligence on the forums

dear god. I don't know whether to rejoice or to cry

Don't go in wemeethere anymore either got tiresome talking to myself after 2yrs. Shit channel since intguru and ppl stopped chatting.

[LB|away]

Originally Posted by Newt

dear god. I don't know whether to rejoice or to cry

Don't go in wemeethere anymore either got tiresome talking to myself after 2yrs. Shit channel since intguru and ppl stopped chatting.

heartbreaker

nuff said

[shibaMac]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Simply the people that post here probably hvae at one time broken the rules. Some have even probably been deleted for such abuse of the game rules. Yes we recruited a player who may or may have not been deleted in the past. we look for players who are active and to a certain extent we work on trust. Our trust is repaid or in this case abused. Either way to stop running your alliance like that would be no worse than becoming a paranoid witch hunters. i have much more valuable things to do with my time like sex and drinking and having a laugh outside pa.

Someone cheated, account is closed, member kicked etc. Get over it and move on.

Ok. Deep breath.

The fact that you just accused EVERY single reader of this thread of cheating is a big insight into the mindset of the type of people who make up the ranks of Fang. Can you even understand the fact that there are people who want to play a fair game? For whom cheating would actually ruin the whole round?

No, I suppose you can't.

[Barrow|Pony]

In addition to that - do you not see the fallacy in your argument?

"Everyone has done it. Why get mad at us for doing it?"

The assumption that 'the people that post here probably hvae broken the rules' is little more than a red herring. It's wrong. Regardless of who has broken the rules, written the rules, followed the rules, or even read them.

Wrong.

[ParraCida]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

Getting threads closed that dont portray FAnG as god's gift to PA.

In addition, Abe openly lied in that FAnG recruitment thread- I believe he was kicked from Fury (or Wrath) at some point for being an idiot.

Now before FAnG scurry along to get this thread closed, I congratulate Forest on reporting a fellow member. The problem in my view is that this seems to happen far too often within FAnG, I suggest you don't recruit people with past cheating history or try and investigate abit more before recruitment.

But, it's your alliance and your reputation. I won't say this has tarnished it, because it might just edge into an improvement due to Forest being the reporter. However I do wonder if your HC are suspectable to such scrutiny also

Second thing? With all the shit they pulled this doesn't even come close to top ten.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by shibaMac

Ok. Deep breath.

The fact that you just accused EVERY single reader of this thread of cheating is a big insight into the mindset of the type of people who make up the ranks of Fang. Can you even understand the fact that there are people who want to play a fair game? For whom cheating would actually ruin the whole round?

No, I suppose you can't.

Actually I have accused nearly everybody of posting of cheating ins ome way or another since round 1 (not every round either).

My mindset is that cheats are caught and punished, however I will nt be part of the hipocrisy of saying cheats should be banned, burned to the steak etc.

[shibaMac]

Of course you, as a cheat, don't want to see more severe penalties for cheating. I'm shocked, I am.

I haven't cheated at PA. Ever. I'm fairly insulted, and I'm sure I'm not alone, to be lumped in with someone like you, and effectively accused of breaking the rules.

Even if I won from cheating, it wouldn't feel like victory. So what would be the point? Don't you understand this?

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by shibaMac

Of course you, as a cheat, don't want to see more severe penalties for cheating. I'm shocked, I am.

I haven't cheated at PA. Ever. I'm fairly insulted, and I'm sure I'm not alone, to be lumped in with someone like you, and effectively accused of breaking the rules.

Even if I won from cheating, it wouldn't feel like victory. So what would be the point? Don't you understand this?

actualy round 6 was the ast i cheated in in any degree of seriousness (since then and the way that galaxy and sme friendships fell apart i concentrated on clean galaxies).

I am quite happy for severe penalties (deletion being the harshest penalty anyone can have who would risk cheating), I just think that most of the people here have at least logged into someones account or done something they shouldn't. You may vry well be in the 10% but please dont be naiv enough to hin that the majrity or even 30% of pa is lie that.

also in a lot of senses a lot depends on what you classify as cheating. many get away with it round after round from account sharing through to proper farming and escorts.

If you weekend out all the cheats PA would have no paying players (not enough to play a round).

I am sorry you are disgusted with my stance, but at the end of the day this is a game, not life or deatha nd penalties should be set according to the fact it is only a game.

[Barrow|Pony]

Well, if you aren't in favor of "weekending out" all cheaters (I assume you mean 'weeding out') - but you are in favor of deleting cheaters - then ... wait a second...

Give back your cake. I'll eat it.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

Well, if you aren't in favor of "weekending out" all cheaters (I assume you mean 'weeding out') - but you are in favor of deleting cheaters - then ... wait a second...

Give back your cake. I'll eat it.

I never said i wasn't in favour of that - i just hin you can't take punishments too far. You al talk and whinge about how the community is dying when in reality if PA was run to the rules then you woul dhave deleted around 50% of the playerbase. I don't accept that cheating is right or cool, just that it happens and most of the people postin here are hippocrits.

Cheatinga nd deletion fr me is th correct action, but banning them is just plain stupid as is some of th which hunts that happen after.