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21 Oct 2010, 23:22
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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A Sandmans Replacement
A few days ago I started work on a replacement for Sandmans, as an extension of my Merlin project. The Arthur/website end of the project already has a lot of features that are very similar to Sandmans (not to mention the highly efficient ticker Excalibur!), so there's a lot of work already done as a result. Several hours were required to adapt the Arthur core to make it more suitable for a public site like Sandmans; anyone running a copy of the Merlin toolset can choose to run this code however the public site can be completely disabled by a configuration setting, and this is the default while in this early development stage.
CarDinaL has been kind enough to agree to trial the new code, you can view my work so far here: http://apprime.lt/ (please don't swamp the server or I'll disable the public tools).
Obviously there's a huge amount still to do, so why am I showing this now? I have essentially been putting all the necessary building blocks in place in order to develop the rest of the tools, and I'm now hoping that other members of the community will step up and help out with development - I don't have time to do this all myself. As with the rest of Merlin, the code is written in Python and is freely available under the GNU GPLv2; please take a look at the code and contribute back. Development will be discussed in #munin on IRC.
What can the rest of you do? Firstly I'd love a logo: it'd have to be similar dimensions to 230x60, and I'd like to see Merlin and maybe Arthur and a watermelon. Yes, this little sleep and that much coding in such a short space of time does make you slightly crazy . (Each alliance running a copy of the tools could replace this with their own logo.)
If people could let us know what features are most important it will allow us to focus and prioritize development. My first thought is to add searching, but after that I don't know. I'm planning to leave the graphs till absolute last, unless anyone with experience or a particular desire to implement them gets involved. Also if you have any screen shots of Sandmans saved, it would really help us keep the feel and class of the design.
I am also working with the guys in #scans to provide an alliance-neutral host. A copy of Merlin will be replacing their IRC bot and their scan database will be linked into the new website tools. More info on this as it develops!
-ell
PS. thanks to Kenny for his help with some early design decisions <3
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21 Oct 2010, 23:26
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#2
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Awesome. Also, yes, searching should definitely be first priority.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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22 Oct 2010, 00:04
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#3
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Bi-Winning
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nfi
Posts: 290
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
kudos for this, maybe link your tools in OP though
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ѵսȽցΛґ
H-A ☆ ODDR ☆ Apprime ☆ xVx ☆ VisioN ☆ HEROES ☆ Ultores
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22 Oct 2010, 13:20
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#4
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Commander in Briefs!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Are you going to release this on Open Source?
Sad that sandman didn't release his code in the end...
Btw I saved as many pages from sandmans that I could think of, just in case the code wasn't released.
http://www.fresh-lobster.co.uk/media/sandmans.zip
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<Kila> WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY PRECIOUS FORUMS
<Zeyi> 24h forum closure
<Zeyi> all posts recalled
"he's got a proven track record when it comes to showy art composition" - Tommy
<Sigi> Light: can I ask u how many open internet-windows u always have?
<MrLobster|PM> i have 2, the pa page, and the website for naked light pictures
<Ave> both has bad gfx
Last edited by MrLobster; 22 Oct 2010 at 13:27.
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22 Oct 2010, 13:48
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#5
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Merlin is open source, yes.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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22 Oct 2010, 16:04
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Thanks MrLobster, those saved pages are perfect!
The development branch for this work is available (under the GPLv2 license) here: http://github.com/ellonweb/merlin/tree/sandmans
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23 Oct 2010, 18:49
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#7
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
I wouldn't trust anything that Cardi or Apprime were involved in.
caveat empor
__________________
Spinner: Kudos to Judge for having big cohones!
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24 Oct 2010, 01:52
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
I've spent the last hour or so whipping up a first attempt at searching. There's no front-end for picking search criteria yet, you have to do this in the URL for now. I'd really appreciate all feedback but especially on the options available and how to better present the returned data.
Each filter is separated by /, and starts with the name of the filter followed by a :
Number filters:
score, value, size, xp, galscore, galvalue, galsize, galxp, idle, x, y, planets
You can specify an exact value (/x:1/ for cluster 1), up to a specific value using |val (/planets:|7/), above a specific value using val| (/size:300|/) or between two values using val1|val2 (/score:500000|700000/)
Rank filters:
rank, valuerank, sizerank, xprank, galrank, galvaluerank, galsizerank, galxprank
These work similarly to number filters except that they are inverted. /rank:|10/ limits to planets outside the top 10, /sizerank:10|/ limits to planets with a roid rank in the top 10.
Sorting:
You can apply as many orders as you like using /order:.../, seperate each filter with a | character. Any of the number or rank filters will work; prefix them with a ^ character for ascending or a _ character for descending. For example: /order:_size|^score/
Word filters:
You can look for specific rulername, planetname or galaxy name using the filters ruler, planet and name respectively. For example, all planetnames containing "the": /planet:the/
Race:
When you specify the race filter it limits it to specific races. You can use more that one race with a |. For example: /race:ter|cat|xan/
Pages:
Only 50 results are shown at a time. You can look at the next page with /page:2/
An example: http://apprime.lt/search/planets:|6/...0/order:_size/
Enjoy!
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26 Oct 2010, 19:09
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#9
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Bragpack™
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 815
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Not that I'll be able to contribute one bit, but great job!
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29 Oct 2010, 16:11
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#10
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self-entitledly superior
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
the menu is rather horrible!
p.s. self irony
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29 Oct 2010, 19:04
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#11
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Good Son
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude
p.s. self irony
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You think they could add a feature to release a bunch of intel on the site too?
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30 Oct 2010, 20:29
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
lolling
(that feature can be enabled in the settings )
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31 Oct 2010, 10:24
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#13
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Retired
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hanging down to the left
Posts: 133
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb
CarDinaL has been kind
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there has been rumours that he's turning soft... but guess its confirmed now..
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Apprime supreme hc, above MaxMilliaN
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31 Oct 2010, 14:49
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#14
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
found a much cooler site
http://pastats.cheleb.net/
ALL HAIL MORROW
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m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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31 Oct 2010, 22:06
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#15
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
"found"
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
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1 Nov 2010, 15:02
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Sigh. One of the main reasons Merlin (and Munin before it) and now these new web tools are open source is to stop everyone from wasting time constantly replicating each other's efforts. I do wish we could all work together and ultimately build a better set of tools for everyone.
Anyways, I've just finished this: http://apprime.lt/search/
Bash filtering is available if you've set your planet. If you're logged in and have intel access you can also filter based on nick or alliance, one of the benefits of being hooked into the existing Merlin backend.
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1 Nov 2010, 16:41
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 25
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Notwithstanding m0's little embarassing outburst, I can
a) understand that people want to do their own stuff so they have total "creative control" (for lack of a better word)
and personally am of the opinion that
b) a monoculture of any sort if never a good thing.
I know that people might disagree on this point arguing that a single unified project can implement more advanced features (simply by virtue of having more man hours available), but this comes at a price of diminished personal control.
And since people do this for a hobby, I think the desire to choose what they want to do (and how they want to do it) with their own merry projects weighs heavily.
__________________
Denial - Evolution
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1 Nov 2010, 16:46
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#18
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Thank god for branches.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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2 Nov 2010, 11:35
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#19
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is behind you! o.O
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 16
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Yeah the main reason I made our alliance tools is because it was more fun than copying current models. I didn't even look at munin's code so I could try and make something new xD
__________________
Surisistance is tufile! :S
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2 Nov 2010, 16:40
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#20
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Laziness pays off NOW!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pensacola, FL, USA
Posts: 596
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb
Sigh. One of the main reasons Merlin (and Munin before it) and now these new web tools are open source is to stop everyone from wasting time constantly replicating each other's efforts. I do wish we could all work together and ultimately build a better set of tools for everyone.
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No matter how much some people love and enjoy the idea of an open source world, there will always be propritiery technology.
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7-Round Official Planetarion #Support Team Member
Retired Since Round 21
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2 Nov 2010, 21:28
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#21
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Bavarian Barbarian
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bayern! Wos sunst?
Posts: 235
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
First off, thanks for all the work which already has been done.
For the Apprime tools, why is there a login required to view planet details?
(User / pass for getting easy intel? - i cant think of another reason...)
It should be easy to use, and if it is made public that should be first priority.
__________________
Now at home in CT
Former: 1u p,[NoS],[]LCH[] Lets change history
KnowItAll
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2 Nov 2010, 23:25
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
The code is fully public, there is no reason for distrust.
The reason why viewing a planet's detail currently requires a login is because there is no Sandman's style planet page yet. If you're logged in you'd see intel and history of fleet movements; this is because the code is part of a bigger set of alliance tools. My next priority is making a public planet details page.
I do hope to get an alliance-neutral host up soon, but for now you'll have to just trust me when I say that an Ascendancy player isn't making tools for Apprime to steal all your intel. Or you could use the DLR version. Or you could download the code and set up your own host...
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2 Nov 2010, 23:51
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#23
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is behind you! o.O
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 16
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
It's going to be hard finding an alliance neutral host if most of the active players of the game are in alliances and as such are not alliance neutral...
__________________
Surisistance is tufile! :S
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3 Nov 2010, 00:01
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#24
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Thankfully there's no particular need for a neutral host that everyone trusts, just for everyone to know one host they trust. Yay for open source.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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3 Nov 2010, 00:13
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
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3 Nov 2010, 02:21
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#26
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
also, morrow's tools lack an awesome design document.
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
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3 Nov 2010, 13:16
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#27
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Bavarian Barbarian
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bayern! Wos sunst?
Posts: 235
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Ok that it isnt fully implemented yet could be a reason
I am looking forward once its fully finished!
Thanks again!
__________________
Now at home in CT
Former: 1u p,[NoS],[]LCH[] Lets change history
KnowItAll
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5 Nov 2010, 16:35
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#28
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb
What can the rest of you do? Firstly I'd love a logo: it'd have to be similar dimensions to 230x60, and I'd like to see Merlin and maybe Arthur and a watermelon. Yes, this little sleep and that much coding in such a short space of time does make you slightly crazy . (Each alliance running a copy of the tools could replace this with their own logo.)
-ell
PS. thanks to Kenny for his help with some early design decisions <3
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Sorry dude, my laptop sucks and my art skillz aren't what I once told people they were.
Here's my submission for logo contention:
http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/4253/merlinsmall.png
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
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6 Nov 2010, 00:24
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#29
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Commander in Briefs!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
__________________
<Kila> WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY PRECIOUS FORUMS
<Zeyi> 24h forum closure
<Zeyi> all posts recalled
"he's got a proven track record when it comes to showy art composition" - Tommy
<Sigi> Light: can I ask u how many open internet-windows u always have?
<MrLobster|PM> i have 2, the pa page, and the website for naked light pictures
<Ave> both has bad gfx
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6 Nov 2010, 00:47
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#30
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
You even copied the slogan?
Score 0 for original thought
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
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6 Nov 2010, 01:45
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#31
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Commander in Briefs!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
if it aint broke dont fix it.
__________________
<Kila> WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY PRECIOUS FORUMS
<Zeyi> 24h forum closure
<Zeyi> all posts recalled
"he's got a proven track record when it comes to showy art composition" - Tommy
<Sigi> Light: can I ask u how many open internet-windows u always have?
<MrLobster|PM> i have 2, the pa page, and the website for naked light pictures
<Ave> both has bad gfx
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6 Nov 2010, 04:25
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#32
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
If it hasn't been plagiarised; plagiarise?
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
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6 Nov 2010, 09:19
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#33
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self-entitledly superior
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
"we copy with pride"
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29 Nov 2010, 16:56
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#34
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xXx
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 114
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
http://androx.vision-hq.com
Sandmans clone in the making.
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Introducing AndroX -The Most Powerful Libido Booster for Men and Women
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5 Dec 2010, 18:47
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#35
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroX
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What's up with the average size for alliances? Measuring it over 50 members?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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6 Dec 2010, 05:05
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#36
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xXx
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 114
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
What's up with the average size for alliances? Measuring it over 50 members?
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It's based on alliance cap. So maxed it at 50 for this round yes. Will add another row that will show avg based on ALL members
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Introducing AndroX -The Most Powerful Libido Booster for Men and Women
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6 Dec 2010, 10:38
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#37
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
You're dividing total roids by 50 instead of by total alliance members. The problem isn't that we want both numbers, it's that one is wrong and the other is right.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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6 Dec 2010, 12:31
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#38
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xXx
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 114
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
You're dividing total roids by 50 instead of by total alliance members. The problem isn't that we want both numbers, it's that one is wrong and the other is right.
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fixed that one, but it won't show accurate growth on that untill tomorrow/after midnight.
__________________
---------------------------------------
Introducing AndroX -The Most Powerful Libido Booster for Men and Women
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7 Dec 2010, 08:59
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 296
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroX
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Heh.. I like that one. Looks more familiar than the Merlin site (no offence, ellonweb )
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7 Dec 2010, 15:56
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#40
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Gabba gabba hey hey
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 212
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by rUl3r
Heh.. I like that one. Looks more familiar than the Merlin site (no offence, ellonweb )
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Ah so you want a boring clone replacement rather than an innovative remake! :P
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7 Dec 2010, 16:11
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#41
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Gabba gabba hey hey
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 212
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Ellon, also I doubt most of the people making the clones are full time coders with the ability to be innovative, so this is their chance to try things
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7 Dec 2010, 17:26
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 296
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Ah so you want a boring clone replacement rather than an innovative remake! :P
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No, I miss a lot of functions on the Merlin site I got on the clone. Like, looking up specific planets and the planet details. Information that is not available on apprime.lt.
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7 Dec 2010, 18:29
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
http://knowitall.cthq.net/index.php
our one is taking a lot of remy's time, coming along nicely.
__________________
R4-5 DDK
R6 Vanx
R7-R10 FAnG
R10 Eclipse
R10.5-R13 FAnG
R20-23 CT
R23 (CT BG) ToF
R24-R82... CT
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8 Dec 2010, 00:36
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by rUl3r
No, I miss a lot of functions on the Merlin site I got on the clone. Like, looking up specific planets and the planet details. Information that is not available on apprime.lt.
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Will be done in time for the new round hopefully! I've been without access to apprime.lt the last few weeks so unable to keep it up-to-date. Currently very busy with job applications though so not much progress
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8 Dec 2010, 18:02
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 296
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb
Currently very busy with job applications though so not much progress
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Good luck. Take your time =)
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20 Dec 2010, 01:34
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: A Sandmans Replacement
http://winterkia.cthq.net/index.php
remy has set up a winter round one.
__________________
R4-5 DDK
R6 Vanx
R7-R10 FAnG
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R20-23 CT
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R24-R82... CT
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