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28 Jul 2013, 21:17
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#101
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotnam
But you need to be in the same alliance, or arrange a nap between your alliance and the one your multi is in. That means most of the time the HC knows who is cheating because they are the ones who control such things. Really, cheating is more impractical than hard these days.
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Oh, certainly. It's only the technical barriers to cheating that have been lowered. The social ones have been raised, if anything.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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29 Jul 2013, 01:13
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#102
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by vuLgAr
2 players are better than 1 no matter how many planets are involved, unless them 2 players are thick as shit.
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Really? So you would rather have Nelito and yoshika playing separate planets than Irvine playing 2??
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29 Jul 2013, 03:12
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#103
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Internet
Posts: 318
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotnam
But you need to be in the same alliance, or arrange a nap between your alliance and the one your multi is in. That means most of the time the HC knows who is cheating because they are the ones who control such things. Really, cheating is more impractical than hard these days.
In a normal round maybe you have room for 5 of those planets in Apprime or other big alliances, tag limits, contributing score and other things make them pretty insignificant to be honest. The word "cousin" in App is a much broader term than just multi, there are/were plenty of people with 1 account playing as "cousins". It really just means def planet.
I played a cousin planet in Apprime in r51, and there are plenty of people in ND who play "cousin-like", always defending. Overall it's my opinion that cheating has very little influence on the game right now.
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Really insightful damage control. Thanks for this important post about how not all your cheating planets were named in a manner to suggest that you were cheating. But were cheating anyway. But not to an important extent. Because they're insignificant. And anyway ND have dedicated def planets.
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29 Jul 2013, 03:21
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#104
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Internet
Posts: 318
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Oh, certainly. It's only the technical barriers to cheating that have been lowered. The social ones have been raised, if anything.
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Did you first diagnose these social barriers when you first felt the compulsion to speak out about the cheating within apprime that you'd come to suspect?
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29 Jul 2013, 03:44
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#105
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Internet
Posts: 318
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotnam
In a normal round maybe you have room for 5 of those planets in Apprime or other big alliances, tag limits, contributing score and other things make them pretty insignificant to be honest.
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The op has over double that number listed along with a suggestion that there's likely more he doesn't know about. You've posted a lot in this thread but i don't think you've so far actually contested anything cba said in the op. Have you finally decided he's wrong now or are your numbers just a bit off? (let alone your value judgement of how large an effect these multi planets had on your success)
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29 Jul 2013, 07:27
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#106
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Bi-Winning
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nfi
Posts: 290
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Really? So you would rather have Nelito and yoshika playing separate planets than Irvine playing 2??
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Your average player is not Irvine or yoshika though, a similar question would I rather have 1 Irvine or 2 competent DC's? I think I'd go for the 2 DC's if ever given the option, yes the Irvine with the 2 planets might contribute more score to the alliance with one of his planets, may even get a t10 finish due to the advantage etc, but them 2 DC's could potentially offer more time coverage? I dunno I guess Irvine has to sleep at some point.
__________________
ѵսȽցΛґ
H-A ☆ ODDR ☆ Apprime ☆ xVx ☆ VisioN ☆ HEROES ☆ Ultores
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29 Jul 2013, 08:35
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#107
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by vuLgAr
Your average player is not Irvine or yoshika though, a similar question would I rather have 1 Irvine or 2 competent DC's? I think I'd go for the 2 DC's if ever given the option, yes the Irvine with the 2 planets might contribute more score to the alliance with one of his planets, may even get a t10 finish due to the advantage etc, but them 2 DC's could potentially offer more time coverage? I dunno I guess Irvine has to sleep at some point.
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But also then you are relying on 2 players to respond to def requests, 2 players to get up and dc themselves and 2 players to not mid launch an attack. Most competent dc's will dc there galaxy if they have incs, able to get def for multiple planets so 1 guy sorting def for his 2 planets is not gonna be hard. Time coverage only really applies to alliances that run with alliance dc's. in ult app and Vikings it's dc yourself or dc your gal or tough shit.
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29 Jul 2013, 09:26
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#108
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil
Did you first diagnose these social barriers when you first felt the compulsion to speak out about the cheating within apprime that you'd come to suspect?
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I am perfectly comfortable with my moral compass.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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29 Jul 2013, 12:48
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#109
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Bi-Winning
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nfi
Posts: 290
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Time coverage only really applies to alliances that run with alliance dc's. in ult app and Vikings it's dc yourself or dc your gal or tough shit.
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Surely the same applies in a dc yourself or tough shit situation, 1 person can't be around 24 hours a day, spread that between 2 and its 12 hours coverage each if anything I'd have thought it would be the exact opposite to what you just said.
Obviously this relies on both people working together but isn't that the very reason people join alliances in the first place.
__________________
ѵսȽցΛґ
H-A ☆ ODDR ☆ Apprime ☆ xVx ☆ VisioN ☆ HEROES ☆ Ultores
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29 Jul 2013, 13:07
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#110
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
"DC yourself or tough shit" relies on having advance warning of incs. If you are not given such warning in advance, you can still be alerted to incs as they show up, by people who happen to be on. Warning the person under attack takes much less time and effort than DCing their incomings, especially when you have an sms and/or call bot.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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29 Jul 2013, 13:43
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#111
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Bi-Winning
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nfi
Posts: 290
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
True but for one player running 2 planets versus 2 players running a planet each his chances of inc effectively double, the run and hide of ships obviously make this more appealing but him successfully running 2 planets vs somebody running a single one working with another to DC or SMS him when he needs to DC doesn't seem to make running 2 planets so appealing IMO.
Add on top of this the chances of being caught and having both planets closed and it doesn't even seem like an advantage.
I'm not saying its not cheating or saying I support it in anyway but I can't see any advantage in doing it for your average player unless you are really bored and have an awful lot of time on your hands, in which case you will be finishing quite high ranked anyway.
__________________
ѵսȽցΛґ
H-A ☆ ODDR ☆ Apprime ☆ xVx ☆ VisioN ☆ HEROES ☆ Ultores
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30 Jul 2013, 11:46
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#112
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Internet
Posts: 318
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I am perfectly comfortable with my moral compass.
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Said every human being to ever exist.
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2 Aug 2013, 10:57
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 673
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Really? So you would rather have Nelito and yoshika playing separate planets than Irvine playing 2??
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Nelito and Yoshika yes please
__________________
At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."
If life hands you lemons, drink more tequila
After the game is over the king and the pawn end up in the same box
HA - asc -rdm-asc-VR- #ODDR - APP
Finally retired
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4 Aug 2013, 09:43
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#114
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Awesome
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 291
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
This old thread just keeps going and going. I don't see facts backing them up though. I could list f.ex 30 people (just like anyone else here could) and claim they have 2-5 accounts like CBA did in his initial post. How does that prove they actually had more than 1 planet? There are some login details there aswell for Hunters multi which CBA never used or never tested?
Hence why i didn't list any names here oil, it cannot be proven and how can anyone defend himself vs such a accusation? Unless the MH team comes here with a list of cheaters or caught cheaters there is nothing to discuss.
But oil, just to make you happy!
oil - Accounts = 421
I might just have caught the biggest cheater in the history of pa, yw
__________________
Apprime PR - taking away ur problems since 2008
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4 Aug 2013, 10:11
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#115
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Don't make me declare war
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,913
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
That would stand up to being valid Cain, if it wasn't for the fact that Apprime quite happily tell anyone who listen that they use cousin accounts.
This thread doesn't tell us anything we don't already know.
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4 Aug 2013, 10:25
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#116
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Blah Blah Blah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Forest tanananananannanananananana
__________________
If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
BANANA ALLIANCE!!
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4 Aug 2013, 12:03
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#117
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Awesome
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 291
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
That would stand up to being valid Cain, if it wasn't for the fact that Apprime quite happily tell anyone who listen that they use cousin accounts.
This thread doesn't tell us anything we don't already know.
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As has been said earlier, cousin accounts != multi planets. Just like any alliance we have ppl who just signup as support planets. Also ppl in Apprime don't happily claim they are using multi planets or we would see alot of closures in the past rounds. All the 'facts' i've seen sofar are as solid as Iraq having weapons of mass destruction
__________________
Apprime PR - taking away ur problems since 2008
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4 Aug 2013, 13:33
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#118
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Bi-Winning
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nfi
Posts: 290
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
DAE: think CBA would have said a word if it wasn't in his best interest to do so... IE: he's too incompetent to run 2 planets. Completely enforcing my point that it isn't in anyway an advantage.
Also y'all needs to understand what a cousin is before you stupidly assume its a second planet. Do you not think the people using the term cousin to confuse you are provoking you? A strategy in a war game which seems highly efficient IMO judging by how many people are butthurt by it.
__________________
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H-A ☆ ODDR ☆ Apprime ☆ xVx ☆ VisioN ☆ HEROES ☆ Ultores
Last edited by vuLgAr; 4 Aug 2013 at 13:38.
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4 Aug 2013, 14:37
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#119
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Internet
Posts: 318
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
This old thread just keeps going and going. I don't see facts backing them up though. I could list f.ex 30 people (just like anyone else here could) and claim they have 2-5 accounts like CBA did in his initial post. How does that prove they actually had more than 1 planet? There are some login details there aswell for Hunters multi which CBA never used or never tested?
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This would've been the best starting point for your alliance to save its image... about 3 pages ago. Since then, every app member who's posted in here has either implicitly or explicitly admitted to the cheating, albeit whilst trying to mollify the extent and effect of it. Yourself included. In fact you even told us why it was that you didn't care about admitting to the cheating. It's because you and your alliance have a culture of "not giving a shit", remember?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
Hence why i didn't list any names here oil, it cannot be proven and how can anyone defend himself vs such a accusation? Unless the MH team comes here with a list of cheaters or caught cheaters there is nothing to discuss
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Good to see your "not giving a shit" about this topic ends when it comes to naming other people involved.
Could that possibly be because you're friends with the people in other alliances who cheat, and who have let you in on it when you talk and joke with one another? The kind of lol arguments you and zotnam et al have put forward to try and justify what you're doing kind of sound like the arguments you'd come up with in an echo chamber of cheaters; about as robust as a dying cat.
I imagine your friends wouldn't like you naming them in public, and I'm sure you might be worried they'd spill even more details about your cheating if you were to out them.
Or perhaps you don't know them very well and they don't know you. In which case I guess you're just stuck with the fact that the list you can think of is far too small to back up your suggestion that we're essentially still all on a level playing field because your cheating is matched in scope by everyone else.
These seem more like the plausible explanations for your reticence to give names you've been asked for as opposed to your attempted suggestion that you're too worried that the evidence might not be admissible in a court of law or whatever...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
But oil, just to make you happy!
oil - Accounts = 421
I might just have caught the biggest cheater in the history of pa, yw
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Yeah well funny you should mention that. When I first joined CT, I joined with an irl friend whose house I often spent late nights in (gay sex). I ran in to problems with multi hunters and remember one of the HCs (gm i think but possibly not) pm'ing me saying something along the lines of my logins looking a bit suspicious and that cheating isn't accepted in CT. Given some of your members/ex-members rambling down an irrelevant tangent about how HCs probably need to be in the know in order for cheating to flourish in the way it has done in your alliance, you can see why I suspect that my alliance at least probably doesn't have anything like the amount of cheaters that yours does. But again, feel free to list some names.
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4 Aug 2013, 14:41
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#120
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Internet
Posts: 318
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by vuLgAr
DAE: think CBA would have said a word if it wasn't in his best interest to do so... IE: he's too incompetent to run 2 planets. Completely enforcing my point that it isn't in anyway an advantage.
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"CBA had problems fully utilising our cheating tools, therefore we can assume that an entire alliance, that has won numerous rounds of planetarion, has not benefited from cheating. I am a moron."
Quote:
Originally Posted by vuLgAr
Also y'all needs to understand what a cousin is before you stupidly assume its a second planet. Do you not think the people using the term cousin to confuse you are provoking you? A strategy in a war game which seems highly efficient IMO judging by how many people are butthurt by it.
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At first i thought it sounded like a group of players who think they're funny and live in a culture of "not giving a shit", who have gotten away with rampant cheating their entire playing careers taking the piss with an in joke.
But then i read your post which described this thought as "stupid", so i decided instead that it was actually a ploy, as an alliance that doesn't cheat, to make opponents think that they cheat, leading to said opponents becoming "butthurt" and promptly losing the game. Because, err.... it's a war game!
You mong.
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4 Aug 2013, 17:51
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#121
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Bi-Winning
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nfi
Posts: 290
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
How easily influenced you are by a single word there oil especially a word emphasising how idiotic assumptions are.
__________________
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H-A ☆ ODDR ☆ Apprime ☆ xVx ☆ VisioN ☆ HEROES ☆ Ultores
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4 Aug 2013, 18:15
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#122
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
There's only one alliance that has a single word for "cheater" and "defwhore". If cheating is considered equivalent to not cheating, then that's a problem. Does that mean every planet that was labeled a cousin is a cheater? No. I played a cousin planet and no one logged into it but me. But it does mean there is or was at least some cheating in Apprime.
(I go out of my way to use the past tense because I haven't been in Apprime for 2 rounds and I don't know if anything has changed since then.)
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 4 Aug 2013 at 18:21.
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5 Aug 2013, 00:04
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#123
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Internet
Posts: 318
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Re: Cheating in Apprime
Quote:
Originally Posted by vuLgAr
How easily influenced you are by a single word there oil especially a word emphasising how idiotic assumptions are.
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Can you elaborate on what you're talking about, thanks.
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