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Unread 11 May 2014, 12:29   #51
Forest
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
The Value on Kia stated otherwise.
The end ranks stated otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
We galaxy raided up until a block formed on us. Faceless/FAnG may have been (in your view) lower tier tags, but it's not our fault if they wanted to tag team against us, and of course we were going to retaliate.
That could have been over and done with easily enough, your hc's immaturity is what kept it going.

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And you talking about hitting down the ranks is quite ironically hilarious, because if I recall correctly, Spore were "bullying" Faceless (a 40 man against a 65 man tag) and refused to back off.
They hit us, we hit them back. We stopped at a mutually agreed time. There was no bullying, it was simple game play. Had we bullied them, I am pretty sure they wouldn't have helped us in any way, shape or form.

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Spore's move on Faceless (much like ours on Faceless/FAnG) was politics, pure and simple. It had nothing to do with "farming" or what not.
They hit us, we hit them back. We stopped at a mutually agreed time. It was simple game play.

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Our enemies have the tendency to give up more easily than your enemies and thus we became a victim of fleetcatching trolls.
Yes, you lost because your enemies gave up .

Out of interest, had YOU had 300 incs a night and Spore had someone FC'ing them, with the knowledge of how good spore were military wise this round, what do you think the outcome would have been?
Seeing how much you crashed anyway, even without FC's, im wondering if it would have been the same result (or if CT would have won)
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Unread 11 May 2014, 12:37   #52
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Cba to read all of this..

I just find it funny Forest is making such a statement about Vikings hitting down the ranks.

We have been #2nd for the entire round and was napped to Spore #1 ?
How then do you mean we could hit anything else than down the rankings??
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Unread 11 May 2014, 12:38   #53
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

By hitting below rank 4 whilst Spore were taking care of business
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Unread 11 May 2014, 12:39   #54
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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I also though doubt it would have happened. As has been shown, Vikings wanted to hit down the ranks the whole round. That may seem wrong to you, but I can state now, it is my belief that Vikings wouldn't have hit us hard, for fear of us smacking you back.

That is all it can be, as Esper said, we can't prove anything.
We can say though with some accuracy that Vikings hit down the ranks and lost. Spore hit their main enemies and won.
We didn't put in the effort in the final two weeks (+/-), infact no-one was really DCing (bar the high profiled planets), and activity in attacks were low. So although your conclusion may have some truth in it, it is also an invalid one because we had basically stopped playing properly at that point.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 12:40   #55
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Good logs although if you could whack them in a pastebin, that would be great. You can indeed say that others failed to act but by just reading posts on here, there's no doubt that Spore would have just adapted. The entire universe can't unite to take down an alliance all the time and right now you would say their HC's decision making and the improved effort and consistency by their members would still put them in pole position.

I am stunned that for the past two rounds AD has been a near constant critique of Spore strategy. It might be because they are the only alliance that have one, but Ultores have underperformed, despite being a quality outfit. At about 700 ticks in I compared ct and ultores and despite taking an absolute shitkicking, ultores were on par with them.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 13:01   #56
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
They hit us, we hit them back. We stopped at a mutually agreed time. There was no bullying, it was simple game play.
Actually, this is incorrect because I have logs of conversations between Zhil and myself of when you should stop hitting Faceless. Faceless asked you several times for a ceasefire, where Spore refused because you wanted to make a point, but you didn't want to keep hitting them to the extent where they would hold a grudge.

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Out of interest, had YOU had 300 incs a night and Spore had someone FC'ing them, with the knowledge of how good spore were military wise this round, what do you think the outcome would have been?
Seeing how much you crashed anyway, even without FC's, im wondering if it would have been the same result (or if CT would have won)
I, nor anyone else in Vikings, have critiscised Spore's methods this round, so I'm not sure why you're being so hostile. As we have stated several times, we weren't looking to play for the win. This was the overall consensus of the core members as well as the HCs.

Last edited by Clouds; 11 May 2014 at 13:11.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 13:04   #57
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Good logs although if you could whack them in a pastebin, that would be great. You can indeed say that others failed to act but by just reading posts on here, there's no doubt that Spore would have just adapted. The entire universe can't unite to take down an alliance all the time and right now you would say their HC's decision making and the improved effort and consistency by their members would still put them in pole position.

I am stunned that for the past two rounds AD has been a near constant critique of Spore strategy. It might be because they are the only alliance that have one, but Ultores have underperformed, despite being a quality outfit. At about 700 ticks in I compared ct and ultores and despite taking an absolute shitkicking, ultores were on par with them.
What point is there in stating the obvious? It is quite clear Ultores didn't perform the way they performed in their hayday. It is also quite clear that they just can't motivate themselfs to bring that level of activity and dedication anymore. The only alliance that can is Spore, and as such are the only true deserved winners of this round. That doesn't mean that whatever Spore states on here should be taken for absolute truth, or that everyone has to like their strategy tho. Their way of playing this round has been perfectly executed, but I personally don't agree with that style of play. Which is probably why Vikings didn't win in r51, despite having the better and more active memberbase that round, and won't win any round within the foreseeable future. Realistically, anyone claiming or stating otherwise is either playing politics (hello Zhil) or delusional (hello Forest and to some extend Clouds).
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Unread 11 May 2014, 13:49   #58
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Had it not been for our pre-round deal I am fairly certain we would have put at least 200 fleets on Spore just in the first week. Simply because Spore were fat and with your race setup you would have been our natural targets. We would not have supported Ultores regardless tho. But if we didn't have our pre-round deal you would have had to have a way more dispersed fleetsetup and fighting Ultores would likely have proved harder than it did.
Naturally but then the round would have been completely different in terms of setup. Politics would not have flowed the way they did as I would have had to neutralise Vikings as well.

In theory, I sincerely doubt we wouldn't have at least gotten a fort avoidance with eachother earlyish, especially if you knew our aim had been to hit Ultores. Simply from the fact it would have bogged us down in a war and not you, and hopefully neutralised Ultores for you.

It's hard for me to comment in "theory" as I very much adapt my politics to what is happening in the game and a whole number of reasons could have adjusted to WHAT deals with WHO for how much TIME.

Of course the deal with Vikings was beneficial to Spore and impacted the round, but then so did every deal I made last round. All of them had impacts across the whole round for Spore.

PS: Forest does not speak for Spore.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 13:58   #59
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Ultores didn't win (attempt for the win) because we got no support to reduce incomings early as we have been able to in previous rounds, even the joint channel allies were putting incs on us (not a great deal but some). therefor when other allies asked us to help them we declined because they failed to help us. we decided to work with ct because ct have always been hostile to us, but had not refused to come to our aid because we did not ask for it due to them being hostile enemies EVERY round we have played. I was very shocked when i heard CT wanted to work with us, it was like the coming of the apocalypse. it was a nice change to work with CT and shows that this game still has a level of dynamic political plays left in it.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:01   #60
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I would say that CT was the biggest cr/bs ally tbh, and at least they hit up the ranks and not down.

I am saying it wasn't a pre-round nap that made the round end as it was, but a failure by our many enemies to hit us when they had the chances.

I remind you, when spore where hitting Ult, Ult were in a block room of what, 5 alliances?
Those alliances chose not to hit us not because of spores actions but because of Ults actions.
In the same way, people at the end chose to FC viks, not because of spores actions but because of Viks actions.

We were NEVER blocked enough to stop people killing us, but as I have pointed out, it is the actions of our enemies that has impacted on that, and not any deals we did or did not have.
Saying CT was the biggest CR/BS ally means you must be defining "biggest" in a diffrent way than im doing in this thread.
CT had a lot fewer CR/BS planets percentagewise than Vikings, and lower value throughout the whole round.
CT is a much better alliance than Vikings, but that is a totaly diffrent thing.

As far as i noticed, FAnG never attacked Spore, im sure the total incs from FAnG on spore mustve been around 50 fleets the whole round. Counting them in on the "Ult Block" side is at best misleading.

Nobody, and i the least are trying to discredit the winning this alliance round, or even faceless the round before. A win is a win, and the best alliance at the last tick is the winner.
All i am saying is the preround NAP wich was until the end of the round was unfair for 90% of the whole playing univers.
This deal made Spore win before the contest even started.
The fact that the deal worked well with Spores ship strat was a deciding factor.

and btw Zhil, im still waiting for you to explain why you would do the drastic step when you went with a round ending NAP with one of the major alliances the last rounds.
I thought that one of the major difference between Spore and other top tier alliances was that we did not agree to such destructive deals.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:05   #61
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Naturally but then the round would have been completely different in terms of setup. Politics would not have flowed the way they did as I would have had to neutralise Vikings as well.

In theory, I sincerely doubt we wouldn't have at least gotten a fort avoidance with eachother earlyish, especially if you knew our aim had been to hit Ultores. Simply from the fact it would have bogged us down in a war and not you, and hopefully neutralised Ultores for you.

It's hard for me to comment in "theory" as I very much adapt my politics to what is happening in the game and a whole number of reasons could have adjusted to WHAT deals with WHO for how much TIME.

Of course the deal with Vikings was beneficial to Spore and impacted the round, but then so did every deal I made last round. All of them had impacts across the whole round for Spore.

PS: Forest does not speak for Spore.
true, the round would have been completely different. And my statements were purely hypothetical. As far as fort avoid goes, our politic HC's kinda agreed not to do any fort avoids early on this round, but go for full naps. I really can't comment on if we would or would not have engaged in one with Spore, but from how the rest of the early round went I somewhat doubt it. There was a reason we made a deal with CT rather than with FAnG. And I personally think we would have made a deal with FAnG rather than with Spore during early round.
The fact you wanted to hit Ultores would most likely not have done anything for us, considering we went into the round completely neutral with them, only really interested in a war with them if they were to hit us first. Ultores HC expressed that they weren't interested in hitting us early on, and held to that with very little incs on us throughout the round, despite us having issues with pure FI waves.

[EDIT]As for Forest not talking for Spore. He might not be part of Spore anymore, but anything he says does reflect on Spore given the active role he had within Spore this round. It will be like this for rounds to come tbh. Just look at how everything Kaiba says is percieved as being from Vikings, while he hasn't even been a part of Vikings for 4 rounds now. If I were to switch allies and remain active on the forums I am quite sure anything positive I say on Vikings for the next couple of rounds would be percieved as coming directly from Vikings too, even if I were really slagging off Vikings in other posts.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:13   #62
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

in what universe is CT better than vikings?

Ct had alot less incs in the last part of the round than vikings.
Oh they managed 2nd... So what?
Outcome lately of alliance ranks is mostly based on how blocks get divided, and who the incs gets forced upon in the last weeks.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:14   #63
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Saying CT was the biggest CR/BS ally means you must be defining "biggest" in a diffrent way than im doing in this thread.
CT had a lot fewer CR/BS planets percentagewise than Vikings, and lower value throughout the whole round.
CT is a much better alliance than Vikings, but that is a totaly diffrent thing.

As far as i noticed, FAnG never attacked Spore, im sure the total incs from FAnG on spore mustve been around 50 fleets the whole round. Counting them in on the "Ult Block" side is at best misleading.

Nobody, and i the least are trying to discredit the winning this alliance round, or even faceless the round before. A win is a win, and the best alliance at the last tick is the winner.
All i am saying is the preround NAP wich was until the end of the round was unfair for 90% of the whole playing univers.
This deal made Spore win before the contest even started.
The fact that the deal worked well with Spores ship strat was a deciding factor.

and btw Zhil, im still waiting for you to explain why you would do the drastic step when you went with a round ending NAP with one of the major alliances the last rounds.
I thought that one of the major difference between Spore and other top tier alliances was that we did not agree to such destructive deals.
I don't call the deal with Vikings unfair. There was still the rest of the universe who could have opposed Spore.

I simply owe no further explanation to you Butcher. You seem blind to actual top level politics. The deal with Vikings was fantastic (for me) and completely put others off tilt. Everyone always assumes Vikings will fight with Ultores and so when they didn't, it upset the balance of the universe.

It wasn't a 'destructive deal' so I find that idea laughable. There is little point trying to paint me as a destructor of last round. I simply played politics to within my ability. I -could- have made it descend much sooner into stagnation and stopped the block forming on Spore in the first place, but I didn't. Ask CT for clarification if you like.

Also you're wrong regarding wins, there are plenty of instances in this game where the alliance which won is NOT the best alliance in that round overall (for military/politics etc) but that is another debate for another day.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:18   #64
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
Ultores didn't win (attempt for the win) because we got no support to reduce incomings early as we have been able to in previous rounds, even the joint channel allies were putting incs on us (not a great deal but some). therefor when other allies asked us to help them we declined because they failed to help us. we decided to work with ct because ct have always been hostile to us, but had not refused to come to our aid because we did not ask for it due to them being hostile enemies EVERY round we have played.
Ultores have always managed to fight off blocks with minimal support in their prime days. I think you struggled this round due to your strat layout (lack of EMP support for one).

Although, saying that, if you had accumulated value early on (ie you hit Spore first), your FI fleets would've been next to impossible to stop. It was just bad luck (or strategically clever) that Spore hit you first
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:22   #65
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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The fact you wanted to hit Ultores would most likely not have done anything for us, considering we went into the round completely neutral with them, only really interested in a war with them if they were to hit us first. Ultores HC expressed that they weren't interested in hitting us early on, and held to that with very little incs on us throughout the round, despite us having issues with pure FI waves.
Basically an unofficial nap.

I guess this is where we differ.

You avoid each other 'because you weren't really interested in hitting them unless they hit you first'.

We hit Ult because they were the competition.

That is all it boils down to. We play for the win and we make the moves to give us a good shot at it.

I simply just don't understand why anyone would play any game without the goal of winning.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:23   #66
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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in what universe is CT better than vikings?

Ct had alot less incs in the last part of the round than vikings.
Oh they managed 2nd... So what?
Outcome lately of alliance ranks is mostly based on how blocks get divided, and who the incs gets forced upon in the last weeks.
I think that his evaluation is based on alliance wins as opposed to how the alliances' performs.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:25   #67
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Ultores have always managed to fight off blocks with minimal support in their prime days. I think you struggled this round due to your strat layout (lack of EMP support for one).

Although, saying that, if you had accumulated value early on (ie you hit Spore first), your FI fleets would've been next to impossible to stop. It was just bad luck (or strategically clever) that Spore hit you first
Was part of our strategy to hit Ultores first. We didn't want them to get first strike on us and thus be 'ready' at their choosing.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:27   #68
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
I don't call the deal with Vikings unfair. There was still the rest of the universe who could have opposed Spore.

I simply owe no further explanation to you Butcher. You seem blind to actual top level politics. The deal with Vikings was fantastic (for me) and completely put others off tilt. Everyone always assumes Vikings will fight with Ultores and so when they didn't, it upset the balance of the universe.

It wasn't a 'destructive deal' so I find that idea laughable. There is little point trying to paint me as a destructor of last round. I simply played politics to within my ability. I -could- have made it descend much sooner into stagnation and stopped the block forming on Spore in the first place, but I didn't. Ask CT for clarification if you like.

Also you're wrong regarding wins, there are plenty of instances in this game where the alliance which won is NOT the best alliance in that round overall (for military/politics etc) but that is another debate for another day.
The univers is to small for two alliances thats prolly 1/5 of the active players in the univers to gang up early on, with a deal that to me said something along the lines of "we will not attack each other no matter what".
This is no levels in politics, any alliance in this univers can agree to such a deal, but in most cases are not interesting in it.
As a HC you can either choose to go for rankings(planet/tag/gal) regardless of how destructive and unfair it is. Or you can choose a line of playing like for example CT, to me, seems to do wich means you will not take deals wich unlevels the Battlefield towards other alliances.
Encourageing other alliances to play politics to their ability could have a very fatal ending to rounds in the future.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:30   #69
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
What point is there in stating the obvious? It is quite clear Ultores didn't perform the way they performed in their hayday. It is also quite clear that they just can't motivate themselfs to bring that level of activity and dedication anymore. The only alliance that can is Spore, and as such are the only true deserved winners of this round. That doesn't mean that whatever Spore states on here should be taken for absolute truth, or that everyone has to like their strategy tho. Their way of playing this round has been perfectly executed, but I personally don't agree with that style of play. Which is probably why Vikings didn't win in r51, despite having the better and more active memberbase that round, and won't win any round within the foreseeable future. Realistically, anyone claiming or stating otherwise is either playing politics (hello Zhil) or delusional (hello Forest and to some extend Clouds).
You are missing the obvious to be fair. Go through the statistics and you will still find a competent, motivated team even if it isn't as good as it was. The point is that their political moves are wasting their capability. Although, I admire their stance on not doing the legwork for others just because its expected. Other alliances could have led the way and got their support quite easily, but chose not to.

Vikings have done OK this round, and much better than last when Zhil munched them. Them and faceless are always good value and have been a factor along with ultores. Spore's way of playing has been pretty good: they've been aggressive to put themselves on top, are always up for a fight if you want one and they closed the round out like pros. Interesting that the game isn't naptarion when the whole universe allies against them.

I've known Forest since round 3 and on this occasion, he's actually right to be enjoying it. Nice way to retire from the game. After last round, I would be dancing on the ****ing rooftops if I was him.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:30   #70
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Or you can choose a line of playing like for example CT, to me, seems to do wich means you will not take deals wich unlevels the Battlefield towards other alliances.

CT plays in a way that creates a block round after round to hit whoever is #1 (or the perceived threat).

Spore plays in a way that tries to stop blocks forming so their can be 1 v 1 battles.

Which would you prefer?

(Not knocking CT's play, I like it, just pause for thought)
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:31   #71
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I simply just don't understand why anyone would play any game without the goal of winning.
There is a lot of players in this univers thats not playing for the win.
Its a lot of people in this world that dont care for getting rich, they just want to do the things they enjoy.
It has been known in the past of planetarion, that some people would do anything to achieve the win, including cheating.
I rather like the fact that majority of the game think its fun even though you aint aiming for the win.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:35   #72
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
CT plays in a way that creates a block round after round to hit whoever is #1 (or the perceived threat).

Spore plays in a way that tries to stop blocks forming so their can be 1 v 1 battles.

Which would you prefer?

(Not knocking CT's play, I like it, just pause for thought)
It is no 1 v 1 in this game, its impossibole, unless those two alliances in this case are NAPed with everyone else.
If i was #1, id like a 1 v 1 with #2, not #4 or #5 or #10 for that matter.
Some rounds in the past it has also been other alliances looking to block CT when they were #1.

Round ending NAPs from PT0 on the other hand, got NOTHING to do with fighing 1 on 1.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:36   #73
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
The univers is to small for two alliances thats prolly 1/5 of the active players in the univers to gang up early on, with a deal that to me said something along the lines of "we will not attack each other no matter what".
This is no levels in politics, any alliance in this univers can agree to such a deal, but in most cases are not interesting in it.
As a HC you can either choose to go for rankings(planet/tag/gal) regardless of how destructive and unfair it is. Or you can choose a line of playing like for example CT, to me, seems to do wich means you will not take deals wich unlevels the Battlefield towards other alliances.
Encourageing other alliances to play politics to their ability could have a very fatal ending to rounds in the future.
Except we did attack eachother which completely blows your argument out the water.

There IS a level with politics Butcher. You fail to grasp the complexities and look at simple base line which tells me you're not really suited to politics (No offense but you have a lot to learn to become competitive)

If you believe no other alliances across the last few rounds have done pre-round deals, then you're naive. Even if it's not "official" most HC in this game have connections to eachother by now to help the flow of politics in the direction they'd like.

My politics were not destructive nor were they unfair. Plus also, CT hardly do politics to keep things 'fair' in the game at all times. Highly doubt Ultores considered it fair in r55 when CT/ND hit them (they were smaller at the time) and then Spore got involved on top (at CT's request)

I differ entirely with your viewpoint, if more alliance HC played the political game like me to better position their alliance, you'd probably see a far more active political scene full of twists and turns.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:38   #74
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
CT plays in a way that creates a block round after round to hit whoever is #1 (or the perceived threat).

Spore plays in a way that tries to stop blocks forming so their can be 1 v 1 battles.

Which would you prefer?

(Not knocking CT's play, I like it, just pause for thought)
lol lol lol

Spore plays in a way to avoid all incs aslong as possible. Has nothing to do with 1v1. It's entirely different from stopping blocks forming.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:41   #75
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Was part of our strategy to hit Ultores first. We didn't want them to get first strike on us and thus be 'ready' at their choosing.
If Ultores had stand up and supported Faceless in the first week your strategy to hit them first would have failed miserably. If your strategy really was to hit Ultores first you would have hit them from day 3 when we had their complete coordlist. Your strategy however was to isolate Ultores, which you have very succesfully done. 'Warring' Faceless and not jump at their first request to cease fire was a strategical choice to force a 'you will not actively work with Ultores in the future' full nap with them. Isolating your enemies is a very good strategy, and worked very well for you.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:44   #76
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
lol lol lol

Spore plays in a way to avoid all incs aslong as possible. Has nothing to do with 1v1. It's entirely different from stopping blocks forming.
Actually, Forest is right on that. My discussion with Vikings was that we needed to divide and conquer our potential enemies and to do as much confusion and disarray within their ranks to stop blocks from forming.

Part of that divide and conquer strategy is to make yourself as least of a target as possible. I'm surprised you don't see that. Stopping FAnG/Faceless from hitting Spore divided up potential support for Ultores thus resulting in the increased fizzle of their block cooperation.

The entire intent from Spore end was that we wanted to isolate Ultores and take them on ASAP as they were main threat to our #1 at the time.

It was exactly the same tactic I employed as the round previously when Faceless were close to Spore and we had a deal with Vikings. Though this round, Vikings were much closer than CT were to us in the previous round meaning our divide and conquer strategy worked better.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:47   #77
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
If Ultores had stand up and supported Faceless in the first week your strategy to hit them first would have failed miserably. If your strategy really was to hit Ultores first you would have hit them from day 3 when we had their complete coordlist. Your strategy however was to isolate Ultores, which you have very succesfully done. 'Warring' Faceless and not jump at their first request to cease fire was a strategical choice to force a 'you will not actively work with Ultores in the future' full nap with them. Isolating your enemies is a very good strategy, and worked very well for you.
I apologise, I should have said to isolate Ultores and hit them first. I figured because all my other posts have repeated this that it would be known.

Ultores wrong move IMO was NOT to support Faceless. They should have supported Faceless (and to some degree I expected they would) which is why our "block" was ready to counteract it.

The way things played out were perfect for Spore, but don't think for a minute I did not anticipate WHAT IF Ultores had supported them.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:47   #78
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

heh. Forest vs. all

Spore officially apologizes for Forests balls.

it must be them
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Unread 11 May 2014, 14:54   #79
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
I apologise, I should have said to isolate Ultores and hit them first. I figured because all my other posts have repeated this that it would be known.

Ultores wrong move IMO was NOT to support Faceless. They should have supported Faceless (and to some degree I expected they would) which is why our "block" was ready to counteract it.

The way things played out were perfect for Spore, but don't think for a minute I did not anticipate WHAT IF Ultores had supported them.
sorry, I should have removed the 'miserably' there. I actually thought I had, as I was fully aware we were prepared to counteract on Ultores supporting Faceless at the time.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:03   #80
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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There is a lot of players in this univers thats not playing for the win.
Indeed there is.

And I cannot understand why.

Is that hard to understand for you?
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:05   #81
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
If i was #1, id like a 1 v 1 with #2, not #4 or #5 or #10 for that matter.
Some rounds in the past it has also been other alliances looking to block CT when they were #1.
No you wouldn't. You would wanna keep your rank.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:06   #82
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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lol lol lol

Spore plays in a way to avoid all incs aslong as possible. Has nothing to do with 1v1. It's entirely different from stopping blocks forming.

Really?

Where we avoiding incs when we hit FL?
Where we avoiding incs when we hit Ult?
Where we avoiding incs when we refused to extend a fort avoidance with ct (even when CT said something along the lines of 'if you don't renew we will block and hit you, or you can just renew for a quiet time of it')?
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:11   #83
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

You do realize that what you are saying, has nothing to do with spore tactics?

You are making it sound like hitting alliances, doesn't mean you are trying to avoid incs at the same time. Even tho they are two completely different things.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:14   #84
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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No you wouldn't. You would wanna keep your rank.
Sorry if you misunderstood me.
I think you say 1 v 1 is more fair than other interfering, and thats what you wanted to achieve.
1 v 1 is more fair when its between alliances of the same size
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:15   #85
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

We could have napped ct and avoided blocks. we could have avoided ult and not had all the stuff that brings with it (they do tend to hit back, with friends )

But we didn't.

Avoiding incs and winning are rarely on the same path, because invariably by avoiding some you end up hitting others and making enemies that way.

Once again, it wasn't anything to do with avoiding incs, it was about isolating the enemy.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:18   #86
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Keep repeating a delusional truth, but it doesnt make it true.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:20   #87
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Wow ... The Spore lads remind me of a bill hicks Joke about sucking your own Dick, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixzg73tSm2w )
Yes you played good politics and had good command and active members to EARN yourself the win... Have a wee party / celebration then focus on the next round as excessive Gloating won't win you popularity for next round.

Now The Viking Lads / Ultore lads ... assess where you went wrong this round I.E. Ultores it was early round and Vikings it was the latter part of the round. Whilst having reasonable military strength Ult and Vikings were out gunned in the Politics section (versus Spore)
Something I would suggest is the POSSIBILITY of taking ULTOREs 30 best players and VIKINGs 30 best players and consider a merger.

Would on Paper / screen would make an alliance that would rival Spore.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:20   #88
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Sorry if you misunderstood me.
I think you say 1 v 1 is more fair than other interfering, and thats what you wanted to achieve.
1 v 1 is more fair when its between alliances of the same size
I am sorry. Next time we will make sure we declare war on 3 alliances at the same time rather than just the one. Would that appease you?

What more can you want. I can't think of any other alliance that has taken on arguably the best alliance of the past 10 rounds, 1 v 1.

Hell, even you make posts round after round advocating blocks. You would have loved to see a block take down spore.

This is the issue with pa. Instead of deal with any threats (as Spore have done), people would rather not fight 1 v 1, or even 1 v 2, but want until someone gets a big lead and then frankly, bash them into the ground.

I know how the script was set. Let Spore get big, its fine. Then we can have 6 alliances hit them, they will fall and we will win. I am sure everyone thought that at some point.
It is only when it became apparent that Spore's defence was a lot better than the rest that people started to panic.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:21   #89
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
It is no 1 v 1 in this game, its impossibole, unless those two alliances in this case are NAPed with everyone else.
If i was #1, id like a 1 v 1 with #2, not #4 or #5 or #10 for that matter.
Some rounds in the past it has also been other alliances looking to block CT when they were #1.
Actually, R55 after Vikings had secured a deal with the CT/ND/Spore block, they had an exclusive 1v1 war with FAnG for around two weeks. And Spore (more or less) had a 1v1 war with Ultores this round.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:23   #90
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Wow ... The Spore lads remind me of a bill hicks Joke about sucking your own Dick, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixzg73tSm2w )
Yes you played good politics and had good command and active members to EARN yourself the win... Have a wee party / celebration then focus on the next round as excessive Gloating won't win you popularity for next round.
Let's not call it the spore lads though lol, its only me

Zhil is here to say he will answer any questions, and reading back im sure he is getting pissed off with me! I must remember to hide.

That said, I am no longer spore, and no longer a planetarion player so I can finally say some of the stuff I havent been able to for fear of backlashes on friends and alliance mates.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:29   #91
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Except we did attack eachother which completely blows your argument out the water.

There IS a level with politics Butcher. You fail to grasp the complexities and look at simple base line which tells me you're not really suited to politics (No offense but you have a lot to learn to become competitive)

I differ entirely with your viewpoint, if more alliance HC played the political game like me to better position their alliance, you'd probably see a far more active political scene full of twists and turns.
Did you not slate Vikings for breaking the NAP?
Or am i confused with the real content of the deal wich has been publicited on forums.
The deal was:
FULL NAP FOR ALL TICKS, NO RETURN.
WORKING/INFORMING EACH OTHER WITH POLITICAL DEALINGS WITH OTHER ALLIANCES.

What complexities?
Every round differs to the other, preround grudges are forgot at PT24.
Some alliances have HCs/Officers with big planets wich they want to keep safe?
Its a difference in being competitive and ruining the fun out of rounds.
Last time i was HC of a alliance i choose to not care for rankings of my alliance and my own planet because i did not want to stagnate the round for some silly rankings.

So if more HCs choose to go for preround round ending deals, the political scene will be more fluetly?
If this is a fact, i think your right, i cant grasp big politics.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:33   #92
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I am sorry. Next time we will make sure we declare war on 3 alliances at the same time rather than just the one. Would that appease you?

What more can you want. I can't think of any other alliance that has taken on arguably the best alliance of the past 10 rounds, 1 v 1.

Hell, even you make posts round after round advocating blocks. You would have loved to see a block take down spore.

This is the issue with pa. Instead of deal with any threats (as Spore have done), people would rather not fight 1 v 1, or even 1 v 2, but want until someone gets a big lead and then frankly, bash them into the ground.

I know how the script was set. Let Spore get big, its fine. Then we can have 6 alliances hit them, they will fall and we will win. I am sure everyone thought that at some point.
It is only when it became apparent that Spore's defence was a lot better than the rest that people started to panic.

Did Vikings also have a round ending deal with Ultores?
That wouldve been more like 1 v 1 from pt0.
I dont care if its Apprime, Vikings, TheFallen, or FAnG who is doing preround full NAPs that last for the entire round, i will advocate to hit #1 no matter what it cost my own planet than letting the top two alliances run away with a massive lead over everyone else.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:34   #93
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Whilst having reasonable military strength Ult and Vikings were out gunned in the Politics section (versus Spore)
Something I would suggest is the POSSIBILITY of taking ULTOREs 30 best players and VIKINGs 30 best players and consider a merger.

Would on Paper / screen would make an alliance that would rival Spore.
Actually, Spore / Vikings / Ultores all (more or less) have the same quality playerbases. Bar the fact that Ultores have the tenancy to DC their own incomings, whereas Spore and Vikings primarily have certain people to DC the whole alliance.

Spore won, not because of the quality of their memberbase (which did contribute) but because of their outstanding politics and fleet strategy.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:37   #94
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Wow ... The Spore lads remind me of a bill hicks Joke about sucking your own Dick, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixzg73tSm2w )
Yes you played good politics and had good command and active members to EARN yourself the win... Have a wee party / celebration then focus on the next round as excessive Gloating won't win you popularity for next round.

Now The Viking Lads / Ultore lads ... assess where you went wrong this round I.E. Ultores it was early round and Vikings it was the latter part of the round. Whilst having reasonable military strength Ult and Vikings were out gunned in the Politics section (versus Spore)
Something I would suggest is the POSSIBILITY of taking ULTOREs 30 best players and VIKINGs 30 best players and consider a merger.

Would on Paper / screen would make an alliance that would rival Spore.
I'm not gloating. If I come across as that, then sorry.

I'm trying to answer queries regarding Spore tactics and such to the best of my ability.

Forest is nolonger Spore and I do not agree with everything he is posting from an official Spore prospective for the record.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:40   #95
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
That said, I am no longer spore, and no longer a planetarion player so I can finally say some of the stuff I havent been able to for fear of backlashes on friends and alliance mates.
You realise that due to some of the stuff that you're getting off your chest, it may result in ramifications on your alliance next round, because you're representing Spore and being far too arrogant.

If I were retiring, I would not put the alliance I love in jeopardy.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:50   #96
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

I don't see why.

I have:

1) distanced myself from spore and stated it is my own opinion lots of times and
2) replied with thought out posts for everything. I haven't trolled and have given my thoughts and beliefs on how I think things have gone.

Of course, if someone having an opinion, on a forum for opinions, is a reason for you to wanna 'put another group of ppl in jeopardy', then that is more an issue for you, than me.

That is one of the main things wrong with pa, have an opinion and state something different to what others think and you get either trolled or bashed the following round.

If you have a different perspective, then give it, I will reply to you, you reply to me. That is what a discussion is.
The children in my class are celebrated for having differing opinions and being brave enough to share those opinions, and I am certainly not gonna shy away from things just because a handful (like, less than 5) people here think that having an opinion is wrong.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:58   #97
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
in what universe is CT better than vikings?

Ct had alot less incs in the last part of the round than vikings.
Oh they managed 2nd... So what?
Outcome lately of alliance ranks is mostly based on how blocks get divided, and who the incs gets forced upon in the last weeks.
CT have more alliance wins than vikings also
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Unread 11 May 2014, 15:58   #98
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Did you not slate Vikings for breaking the NAP?
Or am i confused with the real content of the deal wich has been publicited on forums.
The deal was:
FULL NAP FOR ALL TICKS, NO RETURN.
WORKING/INFORMING EACH OTHER WITH POLITICAL DEALINGS WITH OTHER ALLIANCES.

What complexities?
Every round differs to the other, preround grudges are forgot at PT24.
Some alliances have HCs/Officers with big planets wich they want to keep safe?
Its a difference in being competitive and ruining the fun out of rounds.
Last time i was HC of a alliance i choose to not care for rankings of my alliance and my own planet because i did not want to stagnate the round for some silly rankings.

So if more HCs choose to go for preround round ending deals, the political scene will be more fluetly?
If this is a fact, i think your right, i cant grasp big politics.
Have you ever played for planet rank?
And what does playing for ranks have to do with stagnating the round?
Think before you speak!
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Unread 11 May 2014, 16:00   #99
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Ultores have always managed to fight off blocks with minimal support in their prime days. I think you struggled this round due to your strat layout (lack of EMP support for one).

Although, saying that, if you had accumulated value early on (ie you hit Spore first), your FI fleets would've been next to impossible to stop. It was just bad luck (or strategically clever) that Spore hit you first
in order to land on spore planets in the first place we needed twice the value of the target planet to break emp. stats were very poor for fi
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Unread 11 May 2014, 16:03   #100
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
CT have more alliance wins than vikings also
Another way to put it is ... would you prefer to join vikings or CT?
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