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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 04:28   #1
Dace
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A story

I just wrote a story for SA (an incident that recently happened in my work fitted well into a thread over there) but i thought i'd share it here incase anybody was interested ...
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 04:30   #2
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Re: A story

Anyways story time ...



"No win no fee"

My first thought when those somber, serious adverts (which end with such suspicious optimism) interrupt my daytime viewing is that anybody who signs up to be represented by a "no win no fee" lawyer is "no brained".

"We win 95% of our cases" sounds like "we're very good" to the stupid but "we carefully select the cases we represent" to anybody with an IQ above the aggregate score in an average American Football game.

As such if a "no win no fee" lawyer informs you that your case is worth pursuing you should go pay a lawyer to represent you. That way when you do win and the settlement is being awarded most of it isn't swallowed by inflated representation fees.

I wouldn't say that I'm anti-lawyer as such. However, I do hope that with all the ambulance chasing these parasitic ****s do that an emergency stop will see some poetic justice and a polyester suited shyster plastered onto the back of a crash wagon.



Still, and to give them their due, a public service of sorts is offered by those "no win no fee" companies.

The ubiquitous nature of their adverts do teach people that only the incredibly safety conscious, or those with a death wish, use ladders. As such instant suspicion is aroused by anybody who hurts themself in a ladder-related incident.

"Is the person trying to kill themself?"

"Was it really an accident?"

"Would the person's work colleagues rather see them get 'retired' early?"



What follows for ladders follows for everything and I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you get injured at work you probably want it to happen.

Watch your feet; lose cables can snare the unwary.

"Spills cause spills"

Oh yeah, heavy cardboard boxes are to be avoided at all costs too.

You get the idea.




Workplace accidents might be suspicious but people looking for some time off is understandable

Uninspiring boss.

Inadequate time frames.

Unrealistic targets

Inefficient colleagues.

I mean you have to take some shit at work but usually not literally.



Some woman at work didn’t look where she was going.

Some woman at work slipped.

Some woman at work fell.



They fell and they landed heavily and tears were forming and they were just realizing they were going to have to deal with the embarrassment when other realization and further embarrassment and a rather pungent reek hit them.

Initially placed whole, placed “fresh”, in the doorway and now partially smeared over the surrounding area and into the doorframe some person had left a human turd.

It was this that the woman had slipped on.

It was this that now covered the woman’s trousers.


So she roles around in shit then she goes to the toilet and takes off her trousers and leaves the building with her modesty, what remained of it, covered only by her jacket.



"Was the woman really into scat?" Who can know for sure.

"Is she an exhibitionist?" I mean she paraded around in public wearing only a pair of knickers and a jacket but facts can deceive right?!

All i'm saying is that alot of people get rich falling off ladders.
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 04:34   #3
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Re: A story

occupiers liability act 1957

(and lay off the no win no fee agreements. they are actually good for the public)
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 04:45   #4
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Re: A story

The good old "I did something stupid where is my cheque" mentality.

Increased insurance quotes anyone?
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 04:59   #5
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
The good old "I did something stupid where is my cheque" mentality.

Increased insurance quotes anyone?
i doubt anyone who actually understands the issue will agree with you.

so you're going to be left with the daily mail readers.

EDIT: or kura
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 05:24   #6
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Re: A story

Agreeing with yahwe; theres nothing wrong with no-win-no-fee lawyers. The problems only arise if you have a legal system where the loser of the case isnt forced to pay the winners legal costs (eg America), and/or where courts award damages for stupid reasons.

Dace - link to your thread on SA? I searched the first 2 pages of GBS but couldnt find it.
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 05:32   #7
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Re: A story

I slightly missed the point of Dace's story. Was it that some women where he worked slipped in some shit that had been left in the doorway?
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 05:32   #8
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Agreeing with yahwe; theres nothing wrong with no-win-no-fee lawyers. The problems only arise if you have a legal system where the loser of the case isnt forced to pay the winners legal costs (eg America), and/or where courts award damages for stupid reasons.
america still uses juries to assess damages

we gave that up 200 years ago.

we just have kemp and kemp. an arm is worth an arm (4.5k +loss of earning). a burnt lip is worth a burnt lip (10p).

yet still the present government wants to bring in laws to combat a (so called) compensation cuture.

That really is pandering to the legally ignorant and the people who confuse america with britain ...
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 05:33   #9
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
I slightly missed the point of Dace's story. Was it that some women where he worked slipped in some shit that had been left in the doorway?
and no one seems to know how it got there :/
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 05:38   #10
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
we just have kemp and kemp. an arm is worth an arm (4.5k +loss of earning). a burnt lip is worth a burnt lip (10p).
Yeah, this is a bad idea. Punative damages are a good thing, they just shouldnt be awarded for stupid reasons.
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 05:45   #11
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Yeah, this is a bad idea. Punative damages are a good thing, they just shouldnt be awarded for stupid reasons.
we don't have punitive damages.

there is some academic argument for them. but basically the position is (and remains) that they would be far too difficult to asses.

look at america. they have jury assesed punitive damages and with every case the jury awards several billion and there then needs to be an appeal process where the judges reduce the jury's absurd figure.

My view is that with an active criminal legal system there is no need for punitive damages.

to my mind the civil system has it's place and is better off staying within it. (i would similarly oppose the criminal law being changed to be compensatory)
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 07:42   #12
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Re: A story

Agreeing with Yahwe and not posting anything more useful because he's already said most of the stuff I would have anyway.
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 10:13   #13
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Re: A story

i'm doing Health, Safety and Environmental stuff at the moment.

I'm not sure the Employer is liable unless they haven't ensured the hallway was clean...
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 11:17   #14
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Re: A story

This makes me happy I haven't signed up for SA.

Dace's stories aren't as entertaining on there!
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 11:32   #15
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Re: A story




dace took a shit?
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 11:33   #16
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Re: A story

also, dace, you are wrong, most of the time their fees dont come out of your settlement, you get your settlement +costs
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 11:58   #17
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
i doubt anyone who actually understands the issue will agree with you.

so you're going to be left with the daily mail readers.

EDIT: or kura
the question is this... who picks up the tab for these cases?
the £3,000 - £20,000 payouts dont come out of thin air. the money has to come from somewhere. So where does it come from?

The person/firm liabale... not out of their pockets directly thanks to employers/public liability insurance or some other third party insurance.
But since when has insurance firms been a charity?

The insurance firms... oh no, they will still get their profit. Simple ecomonics. If your payouts increase so must the premiums increase to cover it.

The policyholders/taxpayer... bingo I think we have it now.
So who is required to have insurance to cover these "I didnt have health and safety trainning discuised as lack of common sense." cases.

businesses like shops for example who have to put 10p extra on a mars bar (you get the idea) to cover the extra cost because of the their increased premiums and because their supplier had to put their prices up due to increased premiums who in turn their supplier had to put up their prices and so on.

Governments wether it be national or local level who have to pay increased increase out of court settlements/ increased insurance premiums. So does that mean cuts in services (not as if the hospitals are spotless these days) or increased taxation anyone?
(safe to say the taxation from the extra lawyers wont cover it.)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/322849.stm

Also where there is cash there is chancers. wether it be lawyers or "joe sponger"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1024540.stm


My point is I DON'T want to pick up the tab for someone elses Stupidity.
What is so "daily mail" about that?
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 12:18   #18
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
the question is this... who picks up the tab for these cases?
the £3,000 - £20,000 payouts dont come out of thin air. the money has to come from somewhere. So where does it come from?
Well, of course. But it acts as an incentive for companies to have rigorous health and safety procedures in place, to ensure training of their staff, etc. There is often talk about people suing the council for tripping on broken pavements (I'm not sure how prevalent that actually is) - but perhaps the councils should ensure their pathways are actually maintained correctly (obvioulsy it's not that simple, but if they can show they have defensible maintenance policies they should be fine from a liability point of view).

I do feel there could be an issue in the cases which don't reach court stage (i.e. the vast majority of incidents). A lot of management (especially in the public sector) seems to be quite risk averse and will often take the decision that payments should be made to avoid the chance of it going to court (which is then likely to be very costly, irrespective of what happens). But I'm not sure what scale that problem is, it hardly seems to be bankrupting the economy.
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 13:34   #19
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Well, of course. But it acts as an incentive for companies to have rigorous health and safety procedures in place, to ensure training of their staff, etc. There is often talk about people suing the council for tripping on broken pavements (I'm not sure how prevalent that actually is) - but perhaps the councils should ensure their pathways are actually maintained correctly (obvioulsy it's not that simple, but if they can show they have defensible maintenance policies they should be fine from a liability point of view).

I do feel there could be an issue in the cases which don't reach court stage (i.e. the vast majority of incidents). A lot of management (especially in the public sector) seems to be quite risk averse and will often take the decision that payments should be made to avoid the chance of it going to court (which is then likely to be very costly, irrespective of what happens). But I'm not sure what scale that problem is, it hardly seems to be bankrupting the economy.
I am getting the feeling of deja vous (spelling?)
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...47#post2953747

but

As for companies having rigorous health and safety trainning... does it go to the point of where you have to treat all employees as idiots and signing more disclaimers than would be deemed sensible. I have seen that done in a few firms I have worked from both as an employee and as a manager.

At what point does common sense gets superceded by "health and safety" trainning? which means it is going to get to the stage where absolute specifics are going to be law... guess who gets more work out of nothing?

As for the ecomony it means that is costing the UK £6.8bn it isnt generating wealth as them adverts are letting people believe.

£6,800,000,000 / the uk population (58789194 april 2001)
so that is £115 quid per head...

Sounds like the price of a good weekend bevy session to me
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 13:50   #20
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
As for the ecomony it means that is costing the UK £6.8bn it isnt generating wealth as them adverts are letting people believe.

£6,800,000,000 / the uk population (58789194 april 2001)
so that is £115 quid per head...
Where on earth did you get that figure?
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 14:22   #21
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Where on earth did you get that figure?
£6.8 billion from the artical from the BBC
58789194 from the 2001 cenus in the uk

and the rest is maths
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 14:53   #22
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Re: A story

holy shit...factual numbers on GD. This cant stand. We only work in vague percentages here!
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 15:38   #23
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Re: A story

I'm waiting for someone to make that shit joke about 83.7% of statistics being made up on the spot.

Hell, I'll get in there early and save some poor soul from the barrage of neg reps.
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 15:52   #24
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
holy shit...factual numbers on GD. This cant stand. We only work in vague percentages here!
it's all right jj.

these figures are just meaningless rubbish anyway so don't stress.
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 16:13   #25
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I'm waiting for someone to make that shit joke about 83.7% of statistics being made up on the spot.

Hell, I'll get in there early and save some poor soul from the barrage of neg reps.
It's actually quite a good joke...

it's just "old".
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 16:57   #26
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
As for companies having rigorous health and safety trainning... does it go to the point of where you have to treat all employees as idiots and signing more disclaimers than would be deemed sensible.
I don't think that's just a compensation issue - it's also driven by increasing health & safety legislation / guidance.

At my work for instance, I have to produce at least two job-specific risk assesments for my annual appraisal. Since my job involves sitting at a desk and very little else, it's a fairly tedious exercise.

I don't really like the current beaucratic approach to H&S, but it's better than the alternatives (i.e. letting employees / members of the public be put at risk). I think the problem is that in this area (as in others) we are moving away from genuine knowledge to a zone where no-one knows anything so everything has to be supported by a pro-forma/tick-sheet approach.
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 18:35   #27
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Dace - link to your thread on SA? I searched the first 2 pages of GBS but couldnt find it.


I created a thread on Creative Convention to get some feedback

Some of those guys are rather harsh.

I initially posted my story in this thread (it's at the bottom of page 3 of the thread)
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 18:40   #28
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Re: A story

most hollywood movies are incredibly samey and shit because they use test audiences to cater to the lowest level of common mediocrity

run free dace run free! besides i still have no idea what the **** this thread is meant to be aboot.
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 18:51   #29
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
run free dace run free!

I'm just looking for some tips on writing style (not plot development).



Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
besides i still have no idea what the **** this thread is meant to be aboot.

It's started of with me writing a short story and it's now a discussion on health and safety (why oh why oh why couldn't it have gone down the scat path like it was surely intended to do).
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 18:59   #30
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Re: A story

because we're not all coprophiles perhaps ?
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 19:04   #31
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
because we're not all coprophiles perhaps ?


"sure thing"
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 20:04   #32
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
because we're not all coprophiles perhaps ?
It's spelt "crocodiles".
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 22:30   #33
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
It's spelt "paedophiles".
?
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Unread 1 Apr 2006, 23:01   #34
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I don't really like the current beaucratic approach to H&S, but it's better than the alternatives (i.e. letting employees / members of the public be put at risk). I think the problem is that in this area (as in others) we are moving away from genuine knowledge to a zone where no-one knows anything so everything has to be supported by a pro-forma/tick-sheet approach.
Aye
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Unread 2 Apr 2006, 00:55   #35
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
i doubt anyone who actually understands the issue will agree with you.

so you're going to be left with the daily mail readers.

EDIT: or kura
I have no idea where this places me in terms of random rantings. However Its probably accurate.
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Unread 2 Apr 2006, 18:12   #36
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
English not your first language? Harsh indeed.
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Unread 2 Apr 2006, 18:46   #37
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Re: A story

I don't have a problem with claims for accidents where the liability clearly lies with the accused - for example, electrocution from untested/unmaintained equipment, or similar.

What pisses me off no end is the moronic examples used in the adverts for these no-win-no-fee places. The most memorable one I can bring to mind, which I believe was for Claims Direct, went something like this:

*initial setup shows painter/decorator dude up a ladder doing some painting/decorating*
P/D Dude: I had an accident at work. My employer gave me the wrong type of ladder.
*cut to P/D Dude falling off his ladder; cries of "oh the humanity!"*
P/D Dude: As a result of my fall, I sucessfully claimed damages of over £<x> from the company, thanks to the quick and helpful service at Claims Direct.

What?
I mean, what?!
The wrong type of ladder?
You're a ****ing decorator by trade, if you can't tell what type of ladder you're using before you put the sodding thing up, then I think you should consider a little more training, no?

Isn't it somewhat more likely that the sequence of events went something like this:
1) "Oh, I've just got to the job and found Dave left the other ladder in the van."
2) "Well, I can't be arsed to go back and change it now, I'll use it anyway."
3) "Whoops, I appear to have fallen off!"
4) "Hey, I remember some advert on TV about screwing your employer over."
5) "£££!"


It's the encouragement of a blame society that annoys me so much, especially when the blame in this case lies with the claimant, for not ****ing paying attention to the equipment that he should know about in order to do his job.
There have been equally moronic examples. I remember one about a removal worker who hurt his back lifting something. I bet you weren't lifting from the knees like you'd been told, were you? Because everyone knows that's for sissies right, and you didn't want the guys to laugh?

So yeah, while I recognise the need for lawyers, the bottom feeders and ambulance chasers should kindly fk off. As should the "ooh, something for nothing!" idiots who use them - they're just as bad.
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Unread 2 Apr 2006, 19:07   #38
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Re: A story

I liked the one where he goes 'I poured boiling tar over myself. Claims direct help me claim 20 thousand pounds!"
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Unread 2 Apr 2006, 21:36   #39
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Re: A story

http://www.swarb.co.uk/acts/1945LawR...genceAct.shtml

It always upsets me when you lay people go off on a rant ...
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Unread 2 Apr 2006, 23:45   #40
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
http://www.swarb.co.uk/acts/1945LawR...genceAct.shtml

It always upsets me when you lay people go off on a rant ...
question is when does common sense get superceded by liability/blame?
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Unread 3 Apr 2006, 00:17   #41
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
question is when does common sense get superceded by liability/blame?
when lay people are talking ill-informed bollocks: so usually in the columns of the daily mail.
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Unread 3 Apr 2006, 01:02   #42
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Re: A story

"where there's blame there's a claim"

may sound like a gimmick, but it's true. Why would a court reward someone for something caused totally by their own stupidity? Do they not hear evidence? If someone is at (even partial) fault for an accident, why shouldn't they compensate the injured party for any loss to the victim that resulted from their negligence?

Just because there is a better setup for people to make these claims doesn't mean that the law ever changed because in general it hasn't, but the level of access to enforcing your legal rights has and probably for the better, thanks to "no win no fee".
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Unread 3 Apr 2006, 01:59   #43
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Re: A story

The contributory negligence rules have existed since 1945.

The common law on 'blame' or 'fault' or (legal term) 'the tort of negligence'. has been slowly growing over the past century. That's a lot of good work by a lot of good men. To make sure that people who suffer harm because of someone else's **** up get the money they need.

no win no fee. is just a way of making sure that in practice even the very poor can afford/get lawyers

IF you don't have no win no fee. Then you are effectively saying "if you suffer harm and that hurts you then you can recover but only if you can afford a lawyer"

That can't be right.

The very best lawyers become judges and they take a huge pay cut in order to become one. They would not have done so (most of the relevant ones are now dead) just to protect the people who were richer than them. They did so to protect everyone
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Unread 3 Apr 2006, 03:15   #44
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
"where there's blame there's a claim"

may sound like a gimmick, but it's true. Why would a court reward someone for something caused totally by their own stupidity? Do they not hear evidence? If someone is at (even partial) fault for an accident, why shouldn't they compensate the injured party for any loss to the victim that resulted from their negligence?

Just because there is a better setup for people to make these claims doesn't mean that the law ever changed because in general it hasn't, but the level of access to enforcing your legal rights has and probably for the better, thanks to "no win no fee".
But at what cost? the compensation culture is affecting our society.
The point is why people who isnt envolved in the claim (neither party) have to pick up the tab through increased cost of living either through increased prices on goods and services or increased taxation/cut services through no fault of their own to cover the "magic cheque" as explained in a previous reply. No blame but they are being claimed alright. Also It can be argued that it is affecting the quality of living for us all through the workplace. as there is more mistrust/friction between management and the workers. for example that Health and safety trainning is now more a case of "sign all these disclaimers you stupid peons." and the risk assessments are working on the assumption that your workforce are total bloody idiots. I am not sure about you but I find it demotivating in my workplace.
the emphasis being on "Anti claim" rather than genuinely being concerned about employee welfare. Also the fact that would be privilages are now stopped because of this new compensation culture.
I cant get a cup of tea in my barbers now because of the fear of spilling my tea over me and claiming them, yet gain more mistrust is generated.
I once also lost my christmas night out due me working for a small business and they had to settle their legal costs in deffending a claim.
all over a wet floor. No the insurance didnt pick up the tab.
The christmas kitty went into some lawyer's pocket through no fault of my own. Needless to say the woman who claimed is no longer welcomed.


And it does affect us all in some way.
Get your cheque and forget. Thats pretty much what the woman thought when she decided to claim.


Here is the thing. Assumptions is the mother of all cock ups is it not? Evidence can be faulty, incorrect or badly represented. which leads to bad decisions/rulings.
http://www.radar-detectors.co.uk/new...t_it_wrong.asp

http://www.innocent.org.uk/cases/sallyclark/index.html

http://www.innocent.org.uk/cases/birmingham6/index.html

there will be cases that slip the net. As we all know the courts arent 100% effient.

Also what about the fraudulent cases that get through and dont get caught?

It is also going to encourage fraudulent claims
http://www.youclaim.co.uk/Personal_I...ws.asp?spid=40

these are also by products of this compensation culture has generated.
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Unread 3 Apr 2006, 03:38   #45
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
But at what cost? the compensation culture is affecting our society.
WHAT compensation culture????? Tort Cases have gone down by 3/4s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
The point is why people who isnt envolved in the claim (neither party) have to pick up the tab through increased cost of living either through increased prices on goods and services or increased taxation/cut services through no fault of their own to cover the "magic cheque"
Companies who **** up a lot get sued a lot. They then go out of business

We call this capitalism.

Any suggestion that damages awarded by courts somehow 'hamper' the economy is plain rubbish.

Your argument would result in "if you were burgled you shouldn't claim on your insurance because if you claim on your insurance everyone elses insurance premium goes up"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
Get your cheque and forget. Thats pretty much what the woman thought when she decided to claim.
She wouldn't 'get a cheque' unless she had been seriously wronged.


P.S. A fraudulent claim leads to far bigger legal issues. Ask Lord Archer of Swindon if you doubt.
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Unread 3 Apr 2006, 05:52   #46
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
WHAT compensation culture????? Tort Cases have gone down by 3/4s!

Companies who **** up a lot get sued a lot. They then go out of business

We call this capitalism..
I hope this isnt the case with councils and NHS hospitials...
they sure do get their share of claims.

MRSA anyone?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Any suggestion that damages awarded by courts somehow 'hamper' the economy is plain rubbish.

Your argument would result in "if you were burgled you shouldn't claim on your insurance because if you claim on your insurance everyone elses insurance premium goes up" ..
my argument is more... the insurance companies budget for losses to property as part of the premium, what the premium doesn't budget for is the burgular get assaulted from the houseowner the burgular sues and gets a cheque. the insurance firm then has increase the premiums to cover the cheque.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
She wouldn't 'get a cheque' unless she had been seriously wronged...
rain + laminated flooring + woman who doesnt watch where she is going = cheque.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
P.S. A fraudulent claim leads to far bigger legal issues. Ask Lord Archer of Swindon if you doubt.
sadly it gives him time to write another book


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Unread 3 Apr 2006, 10:43   #47
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
Here is the thing. Assumptions is the mother of all cock ups is it not? Evidence can be faulty, incorrect or badly represented. which leads to bad decisions/rulings.
http://www.radar-detectors.co.uk/new...t_it_wrong.asp
A wrongly calibrated camera. What relevance does this have to tort?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
A criminal case which relied on the evidence of an expert witness, the testimony of whom has now been judged by his profession to be wrong. At the time of the case he was an renowned member of the medical profession. I'm still failing to see what relevance this has to, well, anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
An infamous miscarriage of justice. You could have also cited the Guildford Four and the Maguire Seven. Well done, you found yet another 'example' which has no relevance to tort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
there will be cases that slip the net. As we all know the courts arent 100% effient.


Also what about the fraudulent cases that get through and dont get caught?

It is also going to encourage fraudulent claims
http://www.youclaim.co.uk/Personal_I...ws.asp?spid=40

these are also by products of this compensation culture has generated.
Efficiency has no place in the legal system. What we have is due process and a presumption of innocence. Do the courts sometimes reach the wrong conclusion? Yes, yes they do. Perfection is rather difficult to achieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
I hope this isnt the case with councils and NHS hospitials...
they sure do get their share of claims.

MRSA anyone?
If the hospital is negligent in allowing MRSA to spread and infect otherwise healthy patients, then there should be a claim against them. The hospital clearly has a duty of care towards its patients. If it breaks that duty of care (by allowing them to become infected with MRSA) and the patient is harmed, then the patient is able to claim against the hospital for pecuniary and non-pecuniary losses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
my argument is more... the insurance companies budget for losses to property as part of the premium, what the premium doesn't budget for is the burgular get assaulted from the houseowner the burgular sues and gets a cheque. the insurance firm then has increase the premiums to cover the cheque.
Are you seriously suggesting that house insurance covers the occupier assulting a person on the property?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
rain + laminated flooring + woman who doesnt watch where she is going = cheque.
flooring likely to become dangerous in the event of becoming wet + rain + Person X slipping on that dangerous flooring = compensation for their failure to make the flooring safe.
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Unread 3 Apr 2006, 11:57   #48
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Re: A story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
But at what cost? the compensation culture is affecting our society.
The point is, "compensation culture" is a myth. All that has changed is people's ability to access the legal system rather than any change in the law for a free for all. We are not the United States.
To have any hope of getting into court, your case has to be worthwhile for these firms to take on - do you think they are going to take on loser cases, no they'll want to make a profit. If anything no win no fee lessens frivolous claims and wasted legal costs because solicitors are being forced to think of taking on the claim on an economic basis rather than just getting a willy nilly fee from their client where they would probably end up being paid to be effectively laughed out of court.

Quote:
The point is why people who isnt envolved in the claim (neither party) have to pick up the tab through increased cost of living either through increased prices on goods and services or increased taxation/cut services through no fault of their own to cover the "magic cheque" as explained in a previous reply. No blame but they are being claimed alright.
This is a big accusation against the UK courts system if i'm reading it correctly that you're implying that the courts just give away money. This is not true, you still have to prove duty of care, some fault of the other party in breaching that duty, the fact that it caused your injury and damage to get any money. The point is that the threat of litigation often means that companies won't bother defending themselves in court and settle asap to save their costs - previously you'ld have to put up with it as while you could go to court unrepresented, the company with the deeper pockets could send in a proper legal team to defend the claim and this puts people off. The point is if people are encouraged to be more careful in future, they will take the necessary safety precautions and as a result, premiums will go down because they've got the appropriate health and safety measures.

Quote:
Also It can be argued that it is affecting the quality of living for us all through the workplace. as there is more mistrust/friction between management and the workers. for example that Health and safety trainning is now more a case of "sign all these disclaimers you stupid peons." and the risk assessments are working on the assumption that your workforce are total bloody idiots. I am not sure about you but I find it demotivating in my workplace.
the emphasis being on "Anti claim" rather than genuinely being concerned about employee welfare. Also the fact that would be privilages are now stopped because of this new compensation culture.
Health and Safety is not just disclaimers; you learn the basics of health and safety, the point is that employees (and sometimes employers) think it's just "use your common sense" when a lot of people don't have that. The point is that "anti claim" promotes employee welfare. Usually steps to maintain healthy and safety are so minimal. I work in an off licence where quite frankly anyone violent or intending to steal from my shop could come in - I'd like to think i'm fully prepared for every situation. My employer made me do a test in dealing with violent and aggressive individuals. I have a qualification in this. It might be "anti claim" but that does not mean it is "not useful" to the employee's welfare.

Quote:
I cant get a cup of tea in my barbers now because of the fear of spilling my tea over me and claiming them, yet gain more mistrust is generated.
My barbers would oblige me with a cup of tea. The point is you never allow the customer to drink it when you're actually cutting hair as presumably, that's when spillages arrive. People have no need to be paranoid. All the law demands is that people take basic steps to think about the safety of others and to use the common sense of the reasonable man on the clapham omnibus.

Quote:
I once also lost my christmas night out due me working for a small business and they had to settle their legal costs in deffending a claim.
all over a wet floor. No the insurance didnt pick up the tab.
The christmas kitty went into some lawyer's pocket through no fault of my own. Needless to say the woman who claimed is no longer welcomed.
One yellow sign in a prominent position is all it takes to cover your back in the act. OK, I am someone with a legal education who is working in a shop to make ends meet right now, but is it that hard to equate wet floor with big yellow sign? Even the most derided business in the country british rail tells its customers to be careful in the slippery conditions. I'm sorry you lost your christmas kitty, but where places are open to the public, the obligation to keep them safe is primary considering you are inviting them to sell your wares.

Quote:
And it does affect us all in some way.
Get your cheque and forget. Thats pretty much what the woman thought when she decided to claim.
If someone didn't do their job properly, settling was the best idea if it was an obvious breach of health and safety. People do not know if your floor is slippery when wet. It is not their "home", so they need to be informed.

Quote:
Here is the thing. Assumptions is the mother of all cock ups is it not? Evidence can be faulty, incorrect or badly represented. which leads to bad decisions/rulings.
http://www.radar-detectors.co.uk/new...t_it_wrong.asp

http://www.innocent.org.uk/cases/sallyclark/index.html

http://www.innocent.org.uk/cases/birmingham6/index.html

there will be cases that slip the net. As we all know the courts arent 100% effient.

Also what about the fraudulent cases that get through and dont get caught?

It is also going to encourage fraudulent claims
http://www.youclaim.co.uk/Personal_I...ws.asp?spid=40

these are also by products of this compensation culture has generated.
I have not read these as quite frankly, tl; dr. The point is that these days you can get excellent representation from good local firms on a no win no fee basis and they'll stand up to any big suits in court if it ever gets that far. The courts are not 100% efficient, but is everything in life? I would state the court's priorities but then i'd be here all day. Judges can be stupid, but it usually took them a while to get there for a reason. People talk about miscarriages of justice but these are such a small percentage the legal system must be doing something right.

If there is one thing I might agree with you is that organisations who advertise on TV don't give a good impression of the legal system. I can see why the law is treated with suspicion in this area. I would rather people went to their local solicitor who is likely to care far more about your case. We are not all people after your money.

I don't see how a system that sifts out frivolous claims and allows the poorest to take their employer or a negligent occupier to court is a bad thing.
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