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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:11   #1
Yahwe
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Yahwe's Career

So ...

As many of you know I am a barrister. I practiced quite happily at the bar. pottering along between criminal trials (defence only dda!) and shitty disputes between rich companies about money. Humming, meandering, whistling along.

Then I had my spat with chambers. My clerks thought it could be sorted out. My old pupil master and (best) instructing solicitor thought i could easily move to another chambers.

But what did i do? You might think that i threw a hissy fit, you might think that I whined like a little girl. Well we barristers have our own phrases!!! I threw my toys out of the pram.

I retired to my cottage in the middle of no where. I pretended to write books. I pretended to write plays. But all i really did was learn to cook, become an alcoholic and post on gd.

But I was bound into this flat purchase (and my father seems so disapointed with me ...). So I returned to london.

I accepted a teaching post in tabland and pottered away.

But now the time has come for a 'job'.

My bestfriend thinks i should go back to the bar. He loves me very much. But there is a huge flaw in his argument. In order to go back to the bar I would have to both a) fill in a very very long form () and b) be nice to my old chambers in order to get a reference.

Pish-tosh to such plans say I!!! So now I am considering the real world. This place where you lot live. I gather there are no subsidised suppers and no white tie balls. but I also gather there is this elusive concept of 'money'. (i also gather that it's rather easy).

So now I am whoring myself to recruitment firms. I've already had 2 'telephone interviews'; (what a very very silly idea they are) during one I had to actually explain what a barrister is!!! I have little 'matt' who i had to meet who is (as far as i am concerned) my pimp.

Tomorrow I have an interview.

I have no idea what the job is. I have no idea how much they pay.

Is my bestfriend right? Am i mad to leave the bar??? OR am i right to leave it and enter this exciting brave new world, of salaries and paid holidays and pensions?
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:31   #2
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Try it and see if you like it.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:34   #3
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Re: Yahwe's Career

oh there is no doubt of your madness

I think it's something to be tried certainly, is there anything prevening a return to the bar later in life ?

There are an awful lot of things you can for a career that you might find enjoyable, and i see no reason to not try a few and see what happens.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:36   #4
Yahwe
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Re: Yahwe's Career

but being employed ...

sure i can see the benefits! (they do the tax return for you, you have a regular monthly income, you get pensions and paid holidays ... etc.)

but what if i have a boss?
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:39   #5
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Re: Yahwe's Career

hahahahahahahahahaha
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:40   #6
Yahwe
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
hahahahahahahahahaha
?????

I accept that wogs have a different sense of humour, but seriously, what?
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:42   #7
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
but being employed ...

sure i can see the benefits! (they do the tax return for you, you have a regular monthly income, you get pensions and paid holidays ... etc.)

but what if i have a boss?
The mythical boss creatures are fickle beasts. Often the boss can turn out be , in laymans terms ' something of a ****'.

However it is also possible to get bosses that are nice, and are actually good to work with.

2/3 of my bosses have been the nice kind so far.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:43   #8
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Re: Yahwe's Career

my advice would be to stay in the bar but it depends.

how much did you piss them off?
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:49   #9
Yahwe
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
my advice would be to stay in the bar but it depends.

how much did you piss them off?
the bar is a self employed profession.

there are 'chambers' which are basically a group of barristers agreeing to share the cost of office space and the salaries of clerks.

I had a huge spat with my old chambers. well with the old crusty fools who'll never take silk ... And so i pissed off that chambers.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:51   #10
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Do not leave the bar Yahwe, lest it change you for the worse.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 01:54   #11
Yahwe
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalon
Do not leave the bar Yahwe, lest it change you for the worse.
What the hell do you mean???

This forum thinks I'm an arrogant ****. How exactly could having a salaried job make me worse ???
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 02:15   #12
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
?????

I accept that wogs have a different sense of humour, but seriously, what?
Yahwe is 'growing up' and facing the 'real world'.




hahahahahahaha
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 02:19   #13
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Re: Yahwe's Career

I say go back to the Bar, and grovel if it's necessary. You can set the record straight in your memoirs. Since you made it to the Bar (and from what I know of you), the law is where you belong. Don't let the crusty old fools push you away from your profession.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 02:23   #14
Yahwe
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I say go back to the Bar, and grovel if it's necessary. You can set the record straight in your memoirs. Since you made it to the Bar (and from what I know of you), the law is where you belong. Don't let the crusty old fools push you away from your profession.
but if i were a cushy in house barrister at some big company then i could earn just as much and not need to get up at 5am to catch a train to court!!
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 02:26   #15
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
What the hell do you mean???

This forum thinks I'm an arrogant ****. How exactly could having a salaried job make me worse ???
You read my mind.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 02:32   #16
Yahwe
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
You read my mind.
fair comment.

I've never disliked you. I just think you don't always understand what I'm saying. This is why i have shied away from learning foreign languages myself. The language of my birth is very complicated and complex. It takes all of my energy and effort to write in correct english (vermillion failed to do this in another thread - and he is no ordinary fool). It is very taxing. I honestly couldn't imagine trying to use another language.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 03:01   #17
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Off all the people on GD, you yahwe should reap the most benefits of getting out in the real world. Mixing with ordinary people could a) increase your social compentence b) get you down from your high horse c) get you some friends

Funny enough the norwegian word for snob is snobb (we also got other words).

P.S #forums has become so much better after I started having you on ignore.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 03:05   #18
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Ah I remember about two years ago when I faced a very similar problem; staying with my government agency in Canada or taking an academic position at Oxford. I also posted here and asked for advice, and I will always recall yahwe posting standard one-line insults as a response calling me self-absorbed and pitiful for asking for career advice on here.... Ah memories...


I, however, am not Yahwe and odd as it may sound, sympathise. It is difficult to transition from cloistered work, academics or (I imagine) law to real work, and harder still to transfer back, as I did. The real difference is the level of expectations, depending on where you end up. My first out of MA job was MacKinsey, which while I did well there, I loathed it.

Go out into the real world and make your mark, or try. The great thing about being a member of the bar (I assume, I actually have no knowledge of the UK legal system, and am basing this on Canadian precident) is that if the real world fails you, you are still a member of the bar, and can return to your cloister...


(Aside: yes, when all else fails, insult my grammar. That will certainly impress everybody. Especially when you are wrong.)
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 03:15   #19
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Re: Yahwe's Career

try and find a job which you regard as challenging otherwise you'll end up crazy mad
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 04:14   #20
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Go for the job, you can get to experience something else and may actually like it. As others have said, if all else fails you could always return to chambers.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 04:35   #21
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Re: Yahwe's Career

the real world would be so much easier if we were the bosses

goodluck with your hunting, though i think you'll find commercial work even more suffocating and repressive, you need to have the ability to roam free, i completely understand since this forum has ****ed me up and im finding it increasingly difficult not to shout 'YOU'RE A ****ING RETARD AND I KNOW WHAT IM DOING SO SHUT THE **** UP'. You will have a boss, your boss will tell you what to do, this forum engenders people to question to argue to debate in order to learn, bosses don't generally like people talking back

btw if you're offered a company pension, don't take it they're pointless, pensions were popularised because of the baby boomer generation, the old needed to retire early, the opposite is needed now. Put the money you would have put into a pension into a longterm savings account. You'll be working till you're 70 and your pension will go bankrupt before then.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 04:42   #22
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
i completely understand since this forum has ****ed me up and im finding it increasingly difficult not to shout 'YOU'RE A ****ING RETARD AND I KNOW WHAT IM DOING SO SHUT THE **** UP'.
I've been on GD for 6 years now.

I spent at least four of them just posting "'YOU'RE A ****ING RETARD" (when necessary)
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 05:36   #23
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Just die and get it over with.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 07:57   #24
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Become a binman!
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 08:36   #25
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Is this episode a dramatic fall from grace or a new beginning.

Either way you will eat humble pie.

Return to chambers.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 09:40   #26
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Re: Yahwe's Career

I recommend you go to the real world and leave this forum, really, its for the best..trust me etc.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 09:41   #27
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Re: Yahwe's Career

You have achieved the bar

This is massively important and will earn you oodles of money doing something youre exceptionally good at.

Do NOT throw it away to work for some poncy, jumped up little shite with a degree gained at a very poor quality university which enables him to "Man Manage" in a manner which Stalin would be proud of.

Suck it up, apologise to chambers and go back to doing what you do best.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 10:27   #28
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
but if i were a cushy in house barrister at some big company then i could earn just as much and not need to get up at 5am to catch a train to court!!
Sure. Are you applying for these types of jobs, or general office jobs?


At the Bar, rank is determined by your seniority and skill. Hence, many barristers will never become QCs while some may become QCs very young.

In the 'real world', rank is determined by experience. You'll find jobsworths in positions over you and you'll be unable to do anything about them. I think that you would find this hell, having been self-employed as a barrister previously.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 10:41   #29
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
sure i can see the benefits! (they do the tax return for you, you have a regular monthly income, you get pensions and paid holidays ... etc.)
These are only really benefits if you earn a reasonably good salary (obviously).

I work with a number of people who are all salaried employees who have one time or another earnt their living in various self-employed pursuits (surveyors, consultants, etc). Without fail they seem to suggest they preferred working for themselves but drifted into the salaried world because of family commitments, need for stability in income, mortgage repayments, etc.

Also, from what I'm told doing your own tax return allows greater "flexibility" in what exactly you pay. Of course, I am sure you are above such shenanigins.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 11:38   #30
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Go have fun in the real world. And when you discover that having a boss and a regular job sucks, you havent learnt less about life.

Dont be caught in a proffesion just beacause you've spent a long time getting to it. The fact that you've become a lawyer is not bad on your cv, almost no matter what youre applying to. Get some more varied things on it as well (maybe even try manual work, even if only for a month), it will give you lots of experience, a sense of what the commoners are doing and a better body.
It's like a dangerous vacation to a exotic place. But you still have a happy happy house to come back to (the bar) if everything goes to shite!
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 12:13   #31
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Re: Yahwe's Career

I'm still baffled as to how you managed to get a position at Cambridge after only doing about 2 years of legal work.

Anyway, I'd advise you to stay in your cottage and try to write a novel/play since you seemed vaguely happier there and you know money isnt important, but meh.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 12:27   #32
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Yahwe, I think you're missing a crucial point here. If you get a job in the working world they're probably going to make you fill out a very very long form before they give you it as well
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 13:11   #33
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Am i mad to leave the bar???
Yes.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 13:12   #34
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Yes.
He means lawyering silly, not the sort of bar that serves glorious alcoholic beverages
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 14:31   #35
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Yahwe, I think you're missing a crucial point here. If you get a job in the working world they're probably going to make you fill out a very very long form before they give you it as well
this had bloody well better not be true ...
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 14:40   #36
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Don't leave the bar unless your gonna work for the goverment
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 14:44   #37
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
this had bloody well better not be true ...
i've never had to do such a thing in 5 jobs.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 15:37   #38
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Regardless of what you want to do these days, there is usually a long form to fill out....
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 15:47   #39
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
i've never had to do such a thing in 5 jobs.
They made me read some long dull work and safety form and fill out lots of pointless questions for my job in diageo (that said for the casino I just had to sign my name!) Of course I took the easy route when it came to filling out the form and copied off the guy getting the job with me. Unfortunately now I have absolutely no idea where the fire exits are
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 15:55   #40
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
They made me read some long dull work and safety form and fill out lots of pointless questions for my job in diageo (that said for the casino I just had to sign my name!) Of course I took the easy route when it came to filling out the form and copied off the guy getting the job with me. Unfortunately now I have absolutely no idea where the fire exits are
Just scream and panic until someone comes to save you
Works everytime
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 16:01   #41
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
They made me read some long dull work and safety form and fill out lots of pointless questions for my job in diageo (that said for the casino I just had to sign my name!) Of course I took the easy route when it came to filling out the form and copied off the guy getting the job with me. Unfortunately now I have absolutely no idea where the fire exits are
What is the title of this thread?? hmm??? It's not 'Stupid **** of an irishman's career' is it?

No!

It's my career. It's all about me! Me! Me! Me!

Stop being so selfish Jonny!
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 16:02   #42
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Re: Yahwe's Career

how old is yahwe again?
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 16:10   #43
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
What is the title of this thread?? hmm??? It's not 'Stupid **** of an irishman's career' is it?

No!

It's my career. It's all about me! Me! Me! Me!

Stop being so selfish Jonny!
If this was my career I think I'd just kill myself now and get it over and done with. That said I struggle to think of a job where that wouldn't be my attitude.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 16:12   #44
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If this was my career I think I'd just kill myself now and get it over and done with. That said I struggle to think of a job where that wouldn't be my attitude.
Pool guy
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 16:17   #45
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Yahwe, you have to join the BBC and take Jeremy Paxman's job. Watching you tear into politicians and other assorted muppets with and inflated sense of self importance would be fascinating. (no, I don't do interviews)
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 16:37   #46
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoeN
how old is yahwe again?
as old as humanity remember!
or is it older?
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 16:39   #47
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
as old as humanity remember!
or is it older?
Humanity is twenty one years old
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 17:58   #48
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Re: Yahwe's Career

UPDATE

Well I just had my first interview for a 'job'.

How fascinating it all is. They had a reception and secretaries and I had a business card thrust into my hot little hand. They appear to bulk buy furniture from ikea and there was a televsion showing 'sky news' (very poor choice) in the reception.

But what of the job I hear you all cry!!

Well to be perfectly frank i'm still not sure what it involves. It's called being a 'recruitment consultant' and i think they want me there so that I can schmooze with other lawyers. They seem to make an awful lot of money by playing god with the future of solicitors.

The playing god aspect really appeals. Apparently I can earn lots of beans by manipulating the gullible young fools who think i'm somehow 'helping' them.

Another plus side is the 70m commute (no more wasting my life on trains!).

The down side is the ikea furniture and that it seems compulsary to wear bad suits.

Perhaps my future lies in this form of shyster-ing. I have another interview on wednesday for a different sort of job and I have one for working in 'the city' comming later.

This is all so terribly exciting
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 18:43   #49
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Re: Yahwe's Career

Good God Steven

Get Out

NOW!

You have no idea how much of a pariah amongst the legal community you will become should you take on a position as a recruitment consultant. Those whom you find employment for will of course, be temporarilly grateful, but almost every single employer whom you place a candidate with will loathe you with a degree of sheer venom that even Sunday8pm cannot generate.

Imagine "Football Agents" , considered parasites living off the work and effort of others, draining millions from the game. What youre considering is the equivalent within the legal profession.

You will never set foot inside a courtoom again!
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 18:46   #50
Yahwe
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Re: Yahwe's Career

millions you say? hmmm.....
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