Planetarion Forums - Israel prison break

JonnyBGood · 16 Mar 2006, 13:54

Look at us, we're so generous. Wait, wait, there's more. Here's the rope to hang yourselves with!!!

PS All governments have military wings kura, it's just that sometimes they're legitimate and we call them armies, and sometimes they're not and we call them terrorists and sometimes they win and we call them freedom fighters.

Dante Hicks · 16 Mar 2006, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

and that for this reason, they were sucking Israeli cock and didnt deserve to govern?

No, they didn't deserve to govern because despite of the indirect support of the Americans, political pressure from both the EU and Israel and the advantage of incumbency they still lost the election. And the main reason they lost the election was because Fatah were becoming emeshed in corruption and weren't, in the eyes of their constituents, improving life by any means quickly enough.

Yahwe · 16 Mar 2006, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

So to summarise : Israel is going to be dealing with keeping down larger and larger Arab populations. Gerrymandering, atrocities, expulsions and the like will help in the short-term but they will not change facts. The cost of occupying / continual war will wear Israel down and eventually they will fall.

Besides the fact that the idea that a nation can some how be out bred to defeat is ridiculous.

I think you're incredibly naive.

These arguments about demographic changes through birthrate effecting real political change have been around forever and never come true.

In this instance the arab birth rate is unsustainable. So your phrase "if these trends continue" make you sound like a very corrupt share dealer...

There are limited resources within these territories, food, water, jobs etc. The arabs are 'over breeding' no doubt for cultural reasons, but whenever any species (man included) over breeds in a particular area the population levels out again. Without the need for an israeli attrocity (although I expect you'll still blame israel somehow ...).

Famine or plague will come along quite naturally to cull the excess population. Or (more likely) the adults themselves will notice the diminution in resources and adapt the birth rate accordingly.

JonnyBGood · 16 Mar 2006, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

There are limited resources within these territories, food, water, jobs etc. The arabs are 'over breeding' no doubt for cultural reasons, but whenever any species (man included) over breeds in a particular area the population levels out again. Without the need for an israeli attrocity (although I expect you'll still blame israel somehow ...).

Famine or plague will come along quite naturally to cull the excess population. Or (more likely) the adults themselves will notice the diminution in resources and adapt the birth rate accordingly.

Or, and here's what they're thinking, they increase their resources! Now where do you think they might look?

Ramihyn · 16 Mar 2006, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Yes like in India, China and Sub-Sahahran Africa.

From what i heard from the general news, china is doing quite a lot and some "extreme" measures to control their birth rates (i call it extreme if it directly or indirectly leads to killing infants which in case of china it seems it does). Am i misinformed or are you unfairly naming China there?

Dante Hicks · 16 Mar 2006, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

These arguments about demographic changes through birthrate effecting real political change have been around forever and never come true.

Lebanon.

Yahwe · 16 Mar 2006, 15:51

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Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Yes like in India, China and Sub-Sahahran Africa.

racist

milo · 16 Mar 2006, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

Besides the fact that the idea that a nation can some how be out bred to defeat is ridiculous.

I think you're incredibly naive.

These arguments about demographic changes through birthrate effecting real political change have been around forever and never come true.

In this instance the arab birth rate is unsustainable. So your phrase "if these trends continue" make you sound like a very corrupt share dealer...

There are limited resources within these territories, food, water, jobs etc. The arabs are 'over breeding' no doubt for cultural reasons, but whenever any species (man included) over breeds in a particular area the population levels out again. Without the need for an israeli attrocity (although I expect you'll still blame israel somehow ...).

Famine or plague will come along quite naturally to cull the excess population. Or (more likely) the adults themselves will notice the diminution in resources and adapt the birth rate accordingly.

what the hell are you on about?!?!?!?!? thats the single most idiotic post you've ever made, jesus christ if you don't have anything intelligent to say...

britain's population will increase we don't talk about resorting to lol plagues and famines lol because we live in a capitalist economy where (and this may surprise you) our 'resources' aren't based on the hunter gather model. Neither are they in palestine/israel. They'll run out of resources! what berries?

you know what the increasing population will result in localised mass distortion of the earth, this will obviously obviously attract rogue asteroids that will come in and flatten the palestinians. Its all natural.

Yahwe · 16 Mar 2006, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by milo

what the hell are you on about?!?!?!?!? thats the single most idiotic post you've ever made, jesus christ if you don't have anything intelligent to say...

britain's population will increase we don't talk about resorting to lol plagues and famines lol because we live in a capitalist economy where (and this may surprise you) our 'resources' aren't based on the hunter gather model. Neither are they in palestine/israel. They'll run out of resources? what berries?

you know what the increasing population will result in localised mass distortion of the earth, this will obviously obviously attract rogue asteroids that will come in and flatten the palestinians. Its all natural.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

There are limited resources within these territories, food, water, jobs etc.

calmio relaxio my angry young friend...

population booms are always unsustainable and they naturally level out. There is also a causative link between famine and plague and over population: there is not a causative link between over population and asteroids.

milo · 16 Mar 2006, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

calmio relaxio my angry young friend...

population booms are always unsustainable and they naturally level out. There is also a causative link between famine and plague and over population: there is not a causative link between over population and asteroids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

There are limited resources within these territories, food, water, jobs etc.

The amount of food, water and jobs (or lack of ie unemployment) aren't linked to the amount of people you decide to group together into a 'nation', an administrative region or a city.

Macau is about to starve into submission and you can re-colonise it, if you think its real it is!!!!

Britain doesn't produce enough food to sustain itself, we are utterly dependant on importing produce and processed foodstuff, clearly we should be starving. Our employment isn't dependant on our total population.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

There is also a causative link between famine and plague and over population: there is not a causative link between over population and asteroids.

There is a link between a lack of plague and the successes of the pharmecutical industry (which isn't seen in hunter gatherer tribes). There are links between famine, crop failure and poverty.

The only real limiting resource in the modern world is energy, damn those arabs for keeping the oil

Tactitus · 16 Mar 2006, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

Just because they didn't use it doesn't mean they weren't prepared to. Both wars 'turned good' for them, but this could easily not have been the case.

Of course, but the point is that having nuclear weapons wasn't sufficient to deter attacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

Mordechai Vannunu was abducted and imprisoned by the Israeli Government in 1986 for an interview he gave to the LA Times in which he announced to the world that Israel had a nuclear arsenal. Whilst it may have been suspected by others, it was not proven or even widely acknowledged until the time this was published.

It's still not 'proven' or even publicly acknowledged by Israel today, but it was well understood long before Vanunu went public.

Quote:

Vannunu did not even start working for at Dimona, the Israeli nuclear installation, until 1976, so it is highly unlikely that when planning an attack on Israel, Syria or Egypt had any foreknowledge that they were attacking a nuclear state.

If the arab states didn't already know that Israel had nuclear weapons in the late sixties then I'm sure the Israelis made sure they knew about them. Nuclear weapons have even less deterrent value if your enemies don't even know you have them.

It is widely believed that the Egyptians and Syrians obtained a nuclear umbrella guarantee from the Soviet Union prior to attacking Israel in 1973 (a service which Iran may soon be providing). Whether such a guarantee was ever made, or if it would ever have been honored, is unknown but the point remains: Israel's nuclear weapons haven't prevented its neighbors from attacking it.

milo · 16 Mar 2006, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

When will you stop your asteroidist propaganda milo?

It has historically been shown to be fact, FACT that asteriod impacts have had a direct impact on earth development and history, therefore ill continue my asteriodist agenda (as you call it) and show how it is both inevitable and completely natural for the palestinians to get whacked on the head by one if they keep breeding.

JonnyBGood · 16 Mar 2006, 17:26

On the point of Israel and nuclear weapons I have a book from 1982 which rates the chances of Israel possessing weapons as significantly high, they do this percentage thing and it's the highest rated country that doesn't acknowledge they possess nukes (have they actually acknowledged it even today?) So to be honest I doubt the egyptians and syrians didn't know before the yom kippur war.

Yahwe · 16 Mar 2006, 17:28

Nobody was suggesting that they are 'hunter gatherers'.

If you are seriously suggesting that a population can continue to increse exponentially without there being resource implications then I would suggest that you look again at your understanding of the world.

I can only conclude that you are being so ignorantly contrary because you wish to nobly defend these arab peoples from what you percieve as my racist attack. If I re-assure you that I am not basing my argument on the fact that they are arabs but simply on the objective truths of population booms will you promise me to return to rationality?

milo · 16 Mar 2006, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

Nobody was suggesting that they are 'hunter gatherers'.

Oh im sorry, if you tell me what you call it when a territory only uses what it can find in its immediate vicinity ill defer to that terminology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

If you are seriously suggesting that a population can continue to increse exponentially without there being resource implications then I would suggest that you look again at your understanding of the world.

Strawman, im ridiculing your 'idea of resources' not disputing that resources can be limiting

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

I can only conclude that you are being so ignorantly contrary because you wish to nobly defend these arab peoples from what you percieve as my racist attack. If I re-assure you that I am not basing my argument on the fact that they are arabs but simply to objective truths of population booms will you promise me to return to rationality?

The forum doesn't like idiotic postings.

Yahwe · 16 Mar 2006, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by milo

Oh im sorry, if you tell me what you call it when a territory only uses what it can find in its immediate vicinity ill defer to that terminology.

Well for a start:
a) The stability of a resource is greatly increased if the resource is sourced locally.
b) There is a limit to how much of a resource can be externally sourced.
c) The resource of 'money' itself limits the ability of a nation to source resources externally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milo

Strawman, im ridiculing your 'idea of resources' not disputing that resources can be limiting

That's not what a strawman is.

My argument is that no population boom can continue indefinately without natural limiting factors occuring thereinby ending that population boom.

My examples so far have been:
1) Resources (water, food, employment, socks, shoes, table napkins ... take your pick)
2) Human action (by the population itself)
3) Mess extermination events which are causatively linked to over population (eg. Famine and plague).

Quote:

Originally Posted by milo

The forum doesn't like idiotic postings.

I have demonstrated heroic patience with you so far. I myself am not quite sure why. I would advise you to take advantage of this rare boon and not to abuse it.

milo · 17 Mar 2006, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

Well for a start:
a) The stability of a resource is greatly increased if the resource is sourced locally.
b) There is a limit to how much of a resource can be externally sourced.
c) The resource of 'money' itself limits the ability of a nation to source resources externally.

I have no idea how that refers to my question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

That's not what a strawman is.

My argument is that no population boom can continue indefinately without natural limiting factors occuring thereinby ending that population boom.

My examples so far have been:
1) Resources (water, food, employment, socks, shoes, table napkins ... take your pick)
2) Human action (by the population itself)
3) Mess extermination events which are causatively linked to over population (eg. Famine and plague).

and that hasn't stopped me laughing at your population dependant food, water and employment

but you obviously need to have the last say on this, so presuming you don't actually say anything intelligent i won't bother replying, that way you can 'win'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

I have demonstrated heroic patience with you so far. I myself am not quite sure why. I would advise you to take advantage of this rare boon and not to abuse it.

Scrap after school then, by the swings.

\/\/\/\/ oh shush, spats are fun

Kurashima · 17 Mar 2006, 18:43

I say give them a playground and some knacker whackers and let them go at it.

pablissimo · 19 Mar 2006, 12:27

there fukkin ded

Yahwe · 19 Mar 2006, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by milo

and that hasn't stopped me laughing at your population dependant food, water and employment

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4822192.stm

He who laughs last laughs longest.

Vaio · 19 Mar 2006, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactitus

And yet Egypt and Syria did just that--they attacked Israel in 1973 (Israel had the bomb by the late '60s, possibly even at the time of the Six-Day war but certainly by the time of the Yom Kippur war). One should never count on one's enemies being in their right minds (especially, I think, in the middle east). :/.

I think someone has been reading far too much Tom Clancy.