Planetarion Forums

Wakko · 18 May 2003, 20:05

the whole flaming against ToT cos of 21:1:3

to come to an end with all that flaming from both sides, i will add now my story about kicking 21:1:3. I try to do this as objective as possible.

20:1 had heavy incomings, not only from c20. ToT has 5 members in that galaxy, and i organised three hours defence for them.
I needed also eta 5 defence, so from cluster or from parallel. I didnt notice that PrinzK(21:1:3) was online on our private server, so i didnt asked him for defence, tbh i was ****ing busy to get the defence for our members in that galaxy. ToT also sent defence to the eclipse members in that galaxy.
Prinzk never queried me and offered me ships, although he was online, and was infront of his computer!

QS noticed that Prinzk was online, and talked to him in query. There PrinzK told him, no i cant offer u ships cos i promised a galm8 to support him in an attack, we launch next tick, and I need most of my fleet. The only ships i can offer you are my cruiser and battleships (ok he had astropods available, but he also told him, he only would support galm8s) (my dear dreadnought NO he even wasnt able to send frigates!!!)

and he also told QS galaxy > alliance and
the only ppl he would support are his galm8s and no alliance member.
And last but not least he told him, that he only will launch fleet when he, or his gal, has the chance to get roids for it, cos he wanted to reach number #1 galaxy. He gave a **** on the fact that his alliance could loose roids and score.

Cos of this Marduk decided to kick him from ToT. This decision is contended and many ppl would find it hard.
But in ToT we want teamplayers. We dont need selfish and egoistic players, and for us is defence > attack.
PrinzK was online.
He refused to send defence, although we had trouble with covering our members and he was para.
He also made clear that for him gives a **** on his alliance and the only thing what counts is his galaxy.
We dont need those members, im happy if every ego player leaves ToT, even he is TOP 10( ToT kicked this round a TOP 10 member cos he never was on priv IRC, we dont have a problem with that).

After Marduks decision, i queried focht and told him that we kicked him from ToT. I also asked him if Eclipse want to join our attack on him, he denied this, but also didnt asked me not to attack. So Eclipse HC were informed before ToT attacked his former member.
After this QS arranged it (dunno why he is flamed for this).

And here a little calculation about what would have happened if ToT didnt attack:

ToT took 1139 roids from him
1,139 mio score

Ressources which he would had gotten from those roids:
first attack tick was tick 1563. So 27 ticks he didnt get ressources from "his" roids

27x250x1139 = 7.688.250 ressources

if he spent all this ressources in fleet/PDS ( also those from tick 1597-1600), that would be 768.825 score.

he also had to send his whole fleet away, when we attacked
http://213.202.254.21/parsers.php?scanid=1750609650
For launching this fleet it took 3332010 eonium, if he spent all in pds 333.201 score.

sooo......
1,139 mio score in roids
0,768.825 mio score cos of the ressources
0,333201 mio score from eonium of the fleet launch
------------------------------
2.241.026 mio score

812.037.836 (ur galscore)
+2.241.026
---------------------------
814.272.8862

score of 18:2:
825.664.940

EVEN IF ToT DIDNT ATTACK HIM 21:1 WOULDNT HAVE WON THE ROUND!!!
STOP CLAIMING THAT U R ONLY NUMBER 2 COS OF ToT!!!!!!

BTW: 20:1 defended 21:1 this morning. 4 ToT members defended there, also eclipse members.

and dreadnought ur "FACT: He was one of the most active defenders" he had defended ToT 15 times. ToT avarage at round end was 16 times. So he was even under avarage. Our most active defenders have >60 defcounts

last but not least:
ToT recruited PrinzK cos of a request from Hicks

Klendau II · 18 May 2003, 20:10

german cheats!!!

Lan · 18 May 2003, 20:10

nice post wakko

get over it m&s

Illogical · 18 May 2003, 20:10

yay blame Hicks

RealJames · 18 May 2003, 20:13

The question does beg why did Wakko go to the trouble of writing this?

Yeah, I'm bored too, we need some PA.

Hicks · 18 May 2003, 20:14

****ing with newbies is so easy it aint even funny.

Ah the predictability of stupidity. Someone even pointed out to them in the other thread exactly what I was trying to do yet they still keep taking the bait.

Also you didn't recruit PrinzK because of me he was ToT even before he was in my galaxy. It did actually cost us the round not through lost score but how it influenced our actions notably it put us off doing Operation Lightning (My plan to win the round). It made me realise it's better to finnish second with your honour in tact than first without it and getting your friends to do your dirty work.

Illogical · 18 May 2003, 20:16

involve ND too if you are going to moan M&S

http://www.pilkara.com/parsers.php?groupid=37850718

^^ GO GO LEMMING RUNS!!!

Pring · 18 May 2003, 20:16

I can see your reasons for kicking him. He made a mistake.. and it turned our to be a terminal one.

However what I don't agree with is you roiding him. ToT have always denied Eclipse attacks on neutrals and even hostiles in ToT gals. An example being the Rock HC and the ND member in 18:2. However as soon as you kick a member you instantly launch on him, despite the fact that there are 6 Eclipse and another 3 ToT in the gal. That's the part I don't particularly agree with.

As for the reason that we didn't defend in gal. We were told that in the interest of fairness ToT would be hitting 18:2:1 who had recently defended against ToT and that if we didn't defend they wouldn't attempt to fleet catch or multiple wave PrinzK/Koelsch. So we decided just to suck it up and take the 3 tick hit on him. However the hit on 18:2:1 never materialised. Who knows why...

As for the "we'd have won with it!", I don't recall saying that and people who did are delusional. The only way we'd have beaten 18:2 is if the round was 3 days longer or they'd been attacked. However those were not the circumstances, so I can't really complain. Second isn't exactly a bad rank

The reason some, i stress not all, of my gal blame ToT for us being #2 is the fact that you protected the neutrals in 18:2 despite them defending against Eclipse and ToT during the round.

Pring

PS Oh and it's a minor point but he sent his fleet in gal so it wasn't 3mil E.

waassaa · 18 May 2003, 20:19

From: Olorun of La Regla Lucumi (21:1:1) 18/05/2003 18:58 GMT
Subject: lol

Why on earth did you think I mentioned ToT in my quit thread ? Since I can't bash you all in game i thought I'd at least begin to **** your reputation up with a nasty flame war where 99% of Planetarion would side with me (Simply because you're in the wrong). And what did you do ? You took the bait and decided to wreck your reputation. LOL
----------------------------------------------------------------

well now we know the facts, seems we know who is in the right.

you lose, you lost you have never won.

mind you second all those times is bloody good.

Illogical · 18 May 2003, 20:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Pring
I can see your reasons for kicking him. He made a mistake.. and it turned our to be a terminal one.

However what I don't agree with is you roiding him. ToT have always denied Eclipse attacks on neutrals and even hostiles in ToT gals. An example being the Rock HC and the ND member in 18:2. However as soon as you kick a member you instantly launch on him, despite the fact that there are 6 Eclipse and another 3 ToT in the gal. That's the part I don't particularly agree with.

As for the reason that we didn't defend in gal. We were told that in the interest of fairness ToT would be hitting 18:2:1 who had recently defended against ToT and that if we didn't defend they wouldn't attempt to fleet catch or multiple wave PrinzK/Koelsch. So we decided just to suck it up and take the 3 tick hit on him. However the hit on 18:2:1 never materialised. Who knows why...

As for the "we'd have won with it!", I don't recall saying that and people who did are delusional. The only way we'd have beaten 18:2 is if the round was 3 days longer or they'd been attacked. However those were not the circumstances, so I can't really complain. Second isn't exactly a bad rank

The reason some, i stress not all, of my gal blame ToT for us being #2 is the fact that you protected the neutrals in 18:2 despite them defending against Eclipse and ToT during the round.

Pring

PS Oh and it's a minor point but he sent his fleet in gal so it wasn't 3mil E.

erm isnt one of ToTs rules if you get tot incoming on your gal your not to defend against it for the better of ToT or something similar, i know someone who was moaning cos they were kicked for defending a gal mate against a ToT attack

Hicks · 18 May 2003, 20:28

Quote:

Originally posted by waassaa
From: Olorun of La Regla Lucumi (21:1:1) 18/05/2003 18:58 GMT
Subject: lol

Why on earth did you think I mentioned ToT in my quit thread ? Since I can't bash you all in game i thought I'd at least begin to **** your reputation up with a nasty flame war where 99% of Planetarion would side with me (Simply because you're in the wrong). And what did you do ? You took the bait and decided to wreck your reputation. LOL
----------------------------------------------------------------

well now we know the facts, seems we know who is in the right.

you lose, you lost you have never won.

mind you second all those times is bloody good.

But you don't see it do you ? Do you know why I sent you a PA mail rather than contact you on IRC ? Because PA mails are allowed to be posted on AD.

Does me simply saying wassaa PMed me saying that ToT are a crap alliance and he'd roid any of their members consitute a fact then ? As it's exactly what Wakko has done. Yet you still don't stop do you.

Illogical · 18 May 2003, 20:33

From: Mirielle and Kirika of Codename : Noir (32:3:2) 18/05/2003 19:32 GMT
Subject: Damn

DAmn Hicks comes across as a retarded monkey on the AD boards

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Stiegl · 18 May 2003, 20:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Pring
However what I don't agree with is you roiding him. ToT have always denied Eclipse attacks on neutrals and even hostiles in ToT gals.

Then i wonder why M&S were able to take roids from neutrals in ET gals whenever they wanted to ...

laputa · 18 May 2003, 20:36

Your reasons for kicking him aside the fact that you kicked AND roided him instantly is kind of insipid or to put it in your language: es hinterlaesst einen faden Beigeschmack.

Laputa

Illogical · 18 May 2003, 20:36

From: Only One of The Usual Suspects (27:6:6) 18/05/2003 19:36 GMT
Subject: RE: Damn

Yeah i agree he is a retarded monkey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pamails can be faked as easily as IRC logs

Pring · 18 May 2003, 20:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Illogical
erm isnt one of ToTs rules if you get tot incoming on your gal your not to defend against it for the better of ToT or something similar, i know someone who was moaning cos they were kicked for defending a gal mate against a ToT attack

yeah, eclipse have the same policy. However as I understand that only applies when people in a galaxy containing at least one hostile are being hit. Contrary to popular opinion we don't just attack neutrals in any old galaxy. The only time neutrals in Eclipse gals are attacked are when there's a hostile gal member in there and it needs coverage. Otherwise they'd just defend the hostile.

21:1:3 was a single allianceless player in a galaxy that should be protected. There's absolutely no reason why he would be classed as hostile and thus attackable.

Hicks · 18 May 2003, 20:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Stiegl
Then i wonder why M&S were able to take roids from neutrals in ET gals whenever they wanted to ...

We weren't. The galaxies we booked were from the centeral ToT/Eclipse list which we had no power to set (Only Fockt, Rob, Sonnenbomber and MardUK can). To get on the list a galaxy needs to be actively hostile at which point it's reduced to planet NAPs (I.e. everything not ET gets hit in case the neutrals defend in galaxy).

Wakko · 18 May 2003, 20:40

Quote:

Originally posted by RealJames
The question does beg why did Wakko go to the trouble of writing this?

Yeah, I'm bored too, we need some PA.

I made this post just to get rid of those unneccessary and immature crap:

[14:40:39] <[21-1]Hicks> i should probably take some digs at ToT and marduk
[14:40:42] <[21-1]Hicks> you suck btw :/

[14:41:01] <[21-1]Pring> Thanks for the backstabbing, Marduk! :P

[15:05:28] <[MS]Hicks> aww tears from Wakko and his lame alliance

[19:35:10] <[21-1-7]Dread> scum
[19:35:14] *** [21-1-7]Dread has left #ToT
on AD:

Dreadnought : ToT = Backstabbing lamers +++

AND: why did eclipse attack that allianceless planet in my galaxy when u have the rule that neutral planets = napped?

(No need to answer this)

Pring · 18 May 2003, 20:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Stiegl
Then i wonder why M&S were able to take roids from neutrals in ET gals whenever they wanted to ...

Because we were also hitting people in the gal who were hostlie. If we didn't send to the neutrals too, they'd just defend against us. See? And it's not like we were the only gal to hit neutrals in an ET gal. Half the gals on the Eclipse target list had at least one friendly. And those were the half with some roids.

Stiegl · 18 May 2003, 20:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Hicks
We weren't. The galaxies we booked were from the centeral ToT/Eclipse list which we had no power to set (Only Fockt, Rob, Sonnenbomber and MardUK can). To get on the list a galaxy needs to be actively hostile at which point it's reduced to planet NAPs (I.e. everything not ET gets hit in case the neutrals defend in galaxy).

sure ...

18 May 2003, 20:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Illogical
involve ND too if you are going to moan M&S

http://www.pilkara.com/parsers.php?groupid=37850718

^^ GO GO LEMMING RUNS!!!

ND aint important and its the worst lemming runs ive been witness too

waassaa · 18 May 2003, 20:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Hicks
We weren't. The galaxies we booked were from the centeral ToT/Eclipse list which we had no power to set (Only Fockt, Rob, Sonnenbomber and MardUK can). To get on the list a galaxy needs to be actively hostile at which point it's reduced to planet NAPs (I.e. everything not ET gets hit in case the neutrals defend in galaxy).

complete and utter crap and you know it.

i also had access to the taget claimer and often enough gals were booked that were not on the list.
not to say it was fo M&S, but don't play innocent, you roided where the roids were, it suited your gal.

And as prinskz pointed out for M&S gal > alliance, which is why YOU even snubbed Eclipse by not tagging, the alliance that allowed you your second place.

Pring · 18 May 2003, 20:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Stiegl
sure ...

Would you like to back that up with anything? Or was that one word the basis of your argument? You are totally and utterly wrong. You can verify this with any HC member involved in target booking.

Illogical · 18 May 2003, 20:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreadnought!
ND aint important and its the worst lemming runs ive been witness too

isnt the point of a lemming run to suicide?

hence what lemmings "supposedly" stand for

Planet lost score, it occupied alot of peoples fleet, so hey its a success. Its not as if any of the attackers were top 50 anyway.

Hicks · 18 May 2003, 20:47

Quote:

Originally posted by waassaa
i also had access to the taget claimer and often enough gals were booked that were not on the list.
not to say it was fo M&S, but don't play innocent, you roided where the roids were, it suited your gal.

While ToT Officers and HC may be a law unto themselves if Eclipse Officers book targets not on the list they get access removed and a warning.

Quote:

Originally posted by waassaa
And as prinskz pointed out for M&S gal > alliance, which is why YOU even snubbed Eclipse by not tagging, the alliance that allowed you your second place.

Does that mean Focht snubbed Eclipse by not tagging to ?

NICE ONE FOCHT YOU SPY !

Also Illogic can you tell me why you guys always lemming run on poor k-w

Stiegl · 18 May 2003, 20:49

i often claimed targets too and i know u guys booked 'other' targets aswell ...
so dont tell me u only hit hostiles at all

Hicks · 18 May 2003, 20:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Stiegl
i often claimed targets too and i know u guys booked 'other' targets aswell ...
so dont tell me u only hit hostiles at all

So your all admitting that ToT abused the Eclipse booking system by booking stuff not on the list.

Great. If you get a ToT HC you can review what galaxies we targeted every night as Cerberus logs everything.

Pring · 18 May 2003, 20:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Stiegl
i often claimed targets too and i know u guys booked 'other' targets aswell ...
so dont tell me u only hit hostiles at all

Example please?

Illogical · 18 May 2003, 20:52

Hicks im not ND

and i dont attack, im a def planet / scan planet. basically have been since eclipse / ToT showed there real power (sending 3 18mil planets after a 6mil planet)

and suicide runs are fun

Stiegl · 18 May 2003, 20:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Hicks
So your all admitting that ToT abused the Eclipse booking system by booking stuff not on the list.

Great.

did i write 'ToT' or did i write 'u guys'?

Illogical · 18 May 2003, 20:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Stiegl
did i write 'ToT' or did i write 'u guys'?

Remember mister Stiegl, lamers only read what they want to read and what suits them

Hicks · 18 May 2003, 20:57

I did indeed miss read /lamer.

But as I said earlier, Eclipse is subject to a real command structure, galaxies which hit galaxies not on the list are punnished. The simple fact is every thing we have targetted is logged and free to scurtiny from any ET HC.

Now if Eclipse was a tin pot alliance which kicked members so that their officers could get revenge maybe then we'd get away with hitting stuff not on the list.

TNX · 18 May 2003, 21:02

lets just mention 3:1 and the attack by M&S on them ^_^

Hicks · 18 May 2003, 21:06

I don't recall attacking 3:1 (Sophines galaxy right ?) the only galaxies I can remember hitting in parrallel are 38:1 and 47:1.

According to Cerberus 3:1 is fully protected and not on the list, weather that's a recent addittion who knows.

18 May 2003, 21:06

Quote:

Originally posted by TNX
lets just mention 3:1 and the attack by M&S on them ^_^

The attack on HOSTILES

18 May 2003, 21:06

or we could mention 18:2 attacking 31:2

Hicks · 18 May 2003, 21:11

Or 37:2. But it doesn't matter about Top Galaxies targetting policies to be honest it's been a nasty round something which it always was going to be once power blocks broke down. The issue was ToT kicking and roiding a member and actually telling him there was another motive. A motive Marduk promised he'd tell me tonight also he now owes me a beer.

Unfortunately his peons can't resist getting trolled hehe.

laputa · 18 May 2003, 21:11

Hicks and Dreadnought: Instead of wasting your time on the forums you should go to a bar and celebrate your huge achievement of being yet again one of the finest gals around!

Hicks · 18 May 2003, 21:12

Quote:

Originally posted by laputa
Hicks and Dreadnought: Instead of wasting your time on the forums you should go to a bar and celebrate your huge achievement of being yet again one of the finest gals around!

I'm not on IRC ! So I broke the first part of Planetarion

Just need to close these dam forums down hehe.

TNX · 18 May 2003, 21:12

Quote:

Originally posted by laputa
Hicks and Dreadnought: Instead of wasting your time on the forums you should go to a bar and celebrate your huge achievement of being yet again one of the finest gals around!

yes #2 again is cool, and it was soooooo close ;(

Hicks · 18 May 2003, 21:13

We needed you to come and help us by hitting them in C TNX

Pring has just gone through the logs, we hit 3:1 on the 6th of May if you give us another 5 minutes we can tell you the exact reason why they were on the target list.

[Edit: August was Elysium]

laputa · 18 May 2003, 21:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Hicks
I'm not on IRC ! So I broke the first part of Planetarion Just need to close these dam forums down hehe.

It's like quitting smoking...small steps won't work, you have to quit totally at once

djcomplex · 18 May 2003, 21:18

these arguments are pointless

M&S didnt win, unfortunate yes but no amount of debating about it on the forums will change that fact.

next topic please!

Pring · 18 May 2003, 21:20

Quote:

Originally posted by TNX
lets just mention 3:1 and the attack by M&S on them ^_^

I checked my logs on this. The day we attacked 3:1:2 , August, was marked as being Elysium. I asked Rob to add them to the list and he did. I think we then launched and were told that he in fact the gal was "protected". We were asked to recall by Sonnenbomber, and most (if not all) of us recalled.

I arby was then changed to show August as being Neutral... I'm unsure if he's still in Ely or not though.

It was an arbiter mistake, happened to everyone this round and 90% of the time it happened it was because ET gal mates didn't inform us that their gal mates had switched alliances. We're not psychic.

MelAn · 18 May 2003, 22:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreadnought!
or we could mention 18:2 attacking 31:2

Got 3 planet in 31:2 handed out as target by Eclipse HC (actually the only big target we ever hitted in stagnation period)
2 were Fang who were attacked by our ToT ppl cause ToT and FanG had no agreements, 1 was listed as Wp in ET arbiter..so Anny&Me launched on him.
We recalled eta 1 cause arbiter wasn't updated and he was ToT , happend sooooooo many times btw..i always recalled last 2 weeks

So what did we do wrong here?

Quote:

Originally posted by Hicks!
Or 37:2 [...]

That's Denniz gal and we never hitted them..although we booked them one night, that's true.

MelAn · 18 May 2003, 22:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Pring
I can see your reasons for kicking him. He made a mistake.. and it turned our to be a terminal one.

However what I don't agree with is you roiding him. ToT have always denied Eclipse attacks on neutrals and even hostiles in ToT gals. An example being the Rock HC and the ND member in 18:2. However as soon as you kick a member you instantly launch on him, despite the fact that there are 6 Eclipse and another 3 ToT in the gal. That's the part I don't particularly agree with.

As for the reason that we didn't defend in gal. We were told that in the interest of fairness ToT would be hitting 18:2:1 who had recently defended against ToT and that if we didn't defend they wouldn't attempt to fleet catch or multiple wave PrinzK/Koelsch. So we decided just to suck it up and take the 3 tick hit on him. However the hit on 18:2:1 never materialised. Who knows why...

As for the "we'd have won with it!", I don't recall saying that and people who did are delusional. The only way we'd have beaten 18:2 is if the round was 3 days longer or they'd been attacked. However those were not the circumstances, so I can't really complain. Second isn't exactly a bad rank

The reason some, i stress not all, of my gal blame ToT for us being #2 is the fact that you protected the neutrals in 18:2 despite them defending against Eclipse and ToT during the round.

Pring

PS Oh and it's a minor point but he sent his fleet in gal so it wasn't 3mil E.

Our neutrals attacked and defended with us and our allies, that's the reason why they were not hit + they always recalled when they were told that they defend vs ET.

About the ToT-attack on your #3 : I was against it and i also told that to Marduk.
(the reason they did was an internal ToT thinggy, as wakko said & we had nothing to do with it)

gzambo · 18 May 2003, 22:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Hicks
***Operation Lightning (My plan to win the round). It made me realise it's better to finnish second with your honour in tact than first without it and getting your friends to do your dirty work.

i was hoping that u would go thru with that plan cause it would have been great fun reading the forums if u had gone thru with it

congrats on 2nd place btw

JonnyBGood · 18 May 2003, 22:41

Hey guys, this is more interesting than the entire rest of the round put together. Ta!

PS In terms of skill I'd value second place twice higher than one number one spot. Of course that's just in isolation.

Gayle29uk · 18 May 2003, 23:21

Quote:

Originally posted by MelAn
We recalled eta 1 cause arbiter wasn't updated and he was ToT , happend sooooooo many times btw..i always recalled last 2 weeks

This pissed me off all round till it got to the point where I didn't care, if allies can't be bothered to keep the arbiters up to date I can't be bothered to hit the recall button.

MelAn · 18 May 2003, 23:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
This pissed me off all round till it got to the point where I didn't care, if allies can't be bothered to keep the arbiters up to date I can't be bothered to hit the recall button.

Some of it was part of the strategy, some was just pure laziness