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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:08   #1
Forest
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Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

I have been granted some time to meet with Jolt and put forward YOUR questions, on the future of pa, and things you may/may not be happy about.

If you ahve a question you would like addressed to Jolt, please FORUM PM me the question, and I will do my best to have it answered (I wont accept email/irc

The log will appear here, (or possibly on the newsletter if I can talk nice enough to Ice-Lady and that it is allowed.

Thread will remain active until Friday 16th July at 1700 gametime, at which point I will remove this thread, and seek time to meet with Jolt, and you can forward questions to me then.

This is your chance to ask the questions you want, and it may not come around again anytime soon.
Use it wisely.

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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:10   #2
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

My Question to Jolt :: Why have you not banned Forest from PA yet?
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:11   #3
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

I have sent Forest a forum PM as per requested.

Oops.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:12   #4
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:13   #5
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

pm it Leshy
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:14   #6
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Forum Pm Fs Leshy
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:14   #7
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Truthfully, I am interested if Jolt has any plans to increase the player numbers. I have always believed that there should be a mix between p2p and free accounts. Free accounts should have banner ads and the sort on them, perhaps even ads sent to the emails of free accounts, I dunno, just something so that some money can be had from the free accounts. P2P accounts would have none of the ads and hassle, and perhaps even some slight advantage, perhaps an extra 5% to mining or something.

Anyways, I think we are all interested in what types of plans JOLT has for developing PA, and increasing the player base.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:15   #8
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Would you consider creating a new world cup round for the players. And get decent numbers to play speedrounds.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:16   #9
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Forum PM, BlueArmy.

Learn to read, fs.

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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:18   #10
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

I still dont get why this is all going through Forest .
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:18   #11
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Forum PM, BlueArmy.

Learn to read, fs.

it's not like i really care.. i just wanted to keep my forum account alive with some random useless reply.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:27   #12
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
I still dont get why this is all going through Forest .
Dude, ignore his Forum PM tyrrany and feel alive
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:33   #13
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

I havent sent him a forum PM.

I thought it would be a bit silly for him to 'stand up' in a meeting and say 'wtf have you guys asked me to come instead of a proper PA rep?'.

I do feel alive though .
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:36   #14
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

We dont have a proper pa rep, who can impartially ask all the questions that those connected officially with the game cant.

Im just giving ppl a choice. U can choose not to be interested in the answers, and not to ask a question, but whats with the mindless flaming?
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:39   #15
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

I have several questions, though Jolt would probably be unwilling/unable to give answers to them as I think you're probably going to find with a lot of the non-trivial ones that get submitted.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:43   #16
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablissimo
I have several questions, though Jolt would probably be unwilling/unable to give answers to them as I think you're probably going to find with a lot of the non-trivial ones that get submitted.
Ask them and see.
At least we will see where they are coming from, and all u have to lose is a couple of mins to ask them.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 22:44   #17
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
but whats with the mindless flaming?
Its not mindless flaming, i am genuinly asking questions which jump straight into my head when i see you running around as though you were PA team. I'm sure similar thoughts must have entered other peoples heads too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
We dont have a proper pa rep, who can impartially ask all the questions that those connected officially with the game cant.
If according to what you have told us recently PA team are indeed upset with Jolt and how this has been handled then it should be them that deals with it, not you. There is no reason why PA team shouldnt directly sort things out with Jolt then tell the public whats going on once its all been sorted rather than having everyones dirty laundry aired in public.

You seem to be trying to take the law into your own hands and tbph i cant see it getting you anywhere. I am midly surprosed and amused that Jolt have agreed to a meeting with you but i guess they must believe the hype that you are the one true voice of the players.


Anyway i'm heading off for some sleep soon so i'll leave this thread to drop down the page while i dream . Its been a fun day, cheers .
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 23:06   #18
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Actually, I see it as a good thing - he's actually taken the initiative to ask Jolt for a meeting to answer some questions the community have. It's not tyranny.

Personally I think Forest is an irritating yet entertaining forum troll, but the fact remains is that he's doing something that can benefit the community here - we should be supporting this.

I know it would be nice to have a system set up currently where this sort of thing could actually go through some sort of regular PA team - Jolt liason meeting, but as we've seen, that sort of communication seems to be unavailable. Who care's who is asking the questions, provided we can actually get some of the more pertinent issues commented on.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 06:41   #19
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
Its not mindless flaming, i am genuinly asking questions which jump straight into my head when i see you running around as though you were PA team. I'm sure similar thoughts must have entered other peoples heads too.


If according to what you have told us recently PA team are indeed upset with Jolt and how this has been handled then it should be them that deals with it, not you. There is no reason why PA team shouldnt directly sort things out with Jolt then tell the public whats going on once its all been sorted rather than having everyones dirty laundry aired in public.

You seem to be trying to take the law into your own hands and tbph i cant see it getting you anywhere. I am midly surprosed and amused that Jolt have agreed to a meeting with you but i guess they must believe the hype that you are the one true voice of the players.


Anyway i'm heading off for some sleep soon so i'll leave this thread to drop down the page while i dream . Its been a fun day, cheers .
Ummm, I like what Forest is doing. What I don't like is what you are doing. Which is hating. Leave him alone. If he wants to take the time to help us let him. Don't be salty. I feel honored that he would dedicate his own time. Its not like he is getting paid. Acctually, if pa team feel kind of stupid because he did it himself, then they should. How about that.
BTW thank you Forest.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 11:58   #20
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Ummm, I like what Forest is doing. What I don't like is what you are doing. Which is hating. Leave him alone. If he wants to take the time to help us let him. Don't be salty. I feel honored that he would dedicate his own time. Its not like he is getting paid. Acctually, if pa team feel kind of stupid because he did it himself, then they should. How about that.
BTW thank you Forest.
JC is right, forest is trying to force himself into a role of "power" by becoming to 'voice of the people' it's complete rubbish people who believe this crusader charade which he is pulling are worryingly naive.

We KNOW how to fix the problem with Planetarion, it's Jolt who are unwilling to take the step of free PA and no amount of question answering will change this.

If he really wants to help Planetarion how about he get's an extra job using the time he spends being 'the voice of the people' then sends the money to Hinch so he can buy pa.

Problem Fixed.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:07   #21
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Yes, let's flame Forest because he's trying to do something constructive!
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:14   #22
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Yes, let's flame Forest because he's trying to do something constructive!

If this was a project that could actually achieve something i would support it 110% but it simply wont. This is a meeting that is being used as a pr exercise, Jolt try to come across as listening to the players views, and Forest get's to think he is important for a day. The 'PA Problem' is beyond discussion we have been going round in circles since round 5 trying new approaches to improve the game, new team, new code, effectively new game and none of it has worked. The one and ONLY way to change the fortunes of this game is to make it free, no talking, no meetings, no crusade just three simple words ' make it free'.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:17   #23
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djcomplex
If this was a project that could actually achieve something i would support it 110% but it simply wont.
At least a Q&A session directly with Jolt is more than we have had so far.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:17   #24
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

I wasnt flaming him as such.

His intentions are good, but then they always are. Its hardly the first time he has jumped in at the deep end to save humanity. What i am saying though is firstly he probably isnt the best person to do such a thing, and secondly it shouldnt be up to a normal player. PA team seem to have been cut out of the loop. They may well be useless at what they do in most peoples opions but it is their job to liase with Jolt and not ours. I cant see Jolt sorting anything out with a player and leaving PA team in the dark, so imnsho this meeting will be nothing more than a Jolt answering Forests questions in a nice manner to please the public and be done with this 'crusade', with no real outcome from it.

The problem seems to be that Jolt are trying to run the game, with very little knowledhe of it, instead of PA team who were put into that position because of their supposed understanding of the game. This is whats caused all the EULA problems blah blah blah. Now the only people that can solve that break down between PA team and Jolt are those 2, not Forest or any other player. Some people seem to think i'm saying this just because its Forest, but i'ld be posting exactly the same if it was someone else.


Edit: typo
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:20   #25
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

You can say PA team had a great nowledge, but spinner has managed to explode every round with development. The icing on the cake was changing it from the best version to the new version.

Playability simply isn't there. PA problem always was and always will be they never actually listen to what the players want.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:31   #26
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
PA problem always was and always will be they never actually listen to what the players want.
If we did that, we'd be flying around with thieves that stole 200 roids and 500 ships a tick, while being able to attack for 12 consecutive ticks with ETA 4 :/
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:38   #27
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
PA problem always was and always will be they never actually listen to what the players want.
Practically every single feature that is implemented into PA is implemented because it was requested. The problem is people (both players and PA team) cant get the correct blanace of features to make a great game. The main problem PA will always have is the size of the universe, PA simply isnt a game that can work well with a small universe.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:45   #28
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
If we did that, we'd be flying around with thieves that stole 200 roids and 500 ships a tick, while being able to attack for 12 consecutive ticks with ETA 4 :/
Nah you would have old style pa where stats could be honed to give fairest performance. With sensble alliance limiters.

PA problem is a person comes up with an idea 20 ppl supported it and all of a sudden it would be implemented. It was always the serious issues that hindered playability for lesser players which were never looked at fully.

Balance always was the key to pa's success. Not implementling loads of new features which has seen the gaming community tumble from its former glories.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:49   #29
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
Practically every single feature that is implemented into PA is implemented because it was requested. The problem is people (both players and PA team) cant get the correct blanace of features to make a great game. The main problem PA will always have is the size of the universe, PA simply isnt a game that can work well with a small universe.
Again lots of features are requested every round - but what is the general concensus?

If you asked 100 players which version of pa they prefered I bet the majority would go back to a more simplistic version. The complexities in the game and its addictive qualities were because the game was simple enough to learn quickly, but as you wanted to become better the strategies and commitment became greater.

Now the game is more complex, the growth stage is a limiting factor and the playability is dross.

So did we really need all those new features? and even if we id should they have been phased in keeping the basic principles that made PA addictive?
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:53   #30
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
Nah you would have old style pa where sats could be honed to give fairest performance. With sensble alliance limiters.

PA problem is n prsn come up with an idea 2 ppl supported it and all of a suden it would be implemented. It was always the serious issues that hindered playability for lesser players which were never looked at fully.

Balance always was th key to pa's success. Not implementling loads of new features which has seen the gaming community tumble from its former glories.
Actually the issues that hinder the playability for lesser players are always being looked into, the problem is that many changes needed to improve the game's playability for the lesser players arent liked by the major groups of people whom make up this forum (ie those in the big alliances). As soon as anything aimed at making the game a bit fairer and more playable for all is suggested they shoot it down normally with NO valid reason for doing so. They just pull the "Alliance X will withdraw from the game if you do this" threats and due to the fact that these lesser players arent inclined to post on this forum because the larger players are so hostile to them it ends up seeming as if everyone is agaisnt the idea and the pressure that having what seems to be your whole playerbase threatening to quit makes them have to rethink
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:54   #31
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

round 3 plain and simple
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:54   #32
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
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Balance always was the key to pa's success.
Balls. PA's most successful rounds were also the most unbalanced ones.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:57   #33
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Balls. PA's most successful rounds were also the most unbalanced ones.
I meant a development balance. Always with the emphasis on new inovations rather than building on the basis of what players found enjoyable.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 12:58   #34
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

its about what people have the most fun regardless of balance tbh

if people enjoy it they spread the word more and play more and are more willing to accept changes etc

if like at current its boring as fk then people are less accepting of issues.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 13:01   #35
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
If you asked 100 players which version of pa they prefered I bet the majority would go back to a more simplistic version. The complexities in the game and its addictive qualities were because the game was simple enough to learn quickly, but as you wanted to become better the strategies and commitment became greater.
(This discussion should probably be in a different thread)

I'm not disagreeing with your point about players preferring the earlier rounds. I know my favourites times were back then. What i do disagree with though is your point that it is completely down to the stats or features. Imo by far the biggest reason those rounds were better is that the universe was huge. This created a much larger roid pool and so less bashing of smaller planets allowing them to grow and get into PA more easily. It also helped reduce stagnation.

Putting r3 stats and features back into PA now would not make a good round, it would be a complete failure due to the extremely small size of the universe.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 13:19   #36
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
If we did that, we'd be flying around with thieves that stole 200 roids and 500 ships a tick, while being able to attack for 12 consecutive ticks with ETA 4 :/
Would this necessarily be a bad thing?

A fast more "arcade" type of Planetarion might be preferable to a more "simulation" style affair.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 13:41   #37
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
Again lots of features are requested every round - but what is the general concensus?

If you asked 100 players which version of pa they prefered I bet the majority would go back to a more simplistic version. The complexities in the game and its addictive qualities were because the game was simple enough to learn quickly, but as you wanted to become better the strategies and commitment became greater.

Now the game is more complex, the growth stage is a limiting factor and the playability is dross.

So did we really need all those new features? and even if we id should they have been phased in keeping the basic principles that made PA addictive?
You have this strange view that PA before PAX was playable. It simply wasnt, round 9 wasnt fun and it wasnt addictive anymore. It had become stagnated and boring, the lesser players couldnt have fun because the blocks stiffled and bashed them, the bigger players could have fun because there were too few targets.

PA had needed a shift in direction for a while, the community had changed yet the game had stayed still. We had the odd feature and fix here and there added but where the game was at and where the community was at was drifting further and further away . The problem with any change is people dont like it, they like things to be familar and will always be against changes. Even more so when you coniserder them as ways to hinder your progress like the big alliances did (ok there were aspects of this as many of the changes were there to level the playing field a bit) and they put so much pressure on them that it took no time for spinners plans to be watered down producing a game thats a mix of spinners initial idea and the old PA and due to this they simply lack any real punch and dont acheive anything, in fact in most cases its just picked up the bad points of each
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 14:13   #38
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Read a few more posts and one phrase comes to mind "If it aint broke dont fix it", Planetarion before PaX technically wasnt broke the P2P factor lowered players numbers which lead onto bordem and stagnation, so Spinner et al instantly thought something new and radical needed to be done to spark up interest again, unfortunely they have only succeeded in dragging the game furthur down.

How about a test

Jolt for a week perhaps setup 2 versions of planetarion

one PaX code
one Pre PaX code

monitor players figures
use figure to project players interest if a full round was scheduled contact advertisers accordingly to ensure the round can be run for free.

Who knows i may be suprised and pax comes up as more popular but i cant really see that happening.....can you?
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 14:18   #39
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
You have this strange view that PA before PAX was playable. It simply wasnt, round 9 wasnt fun and it wasnt addictive anymore. It had become stagnated and boring, the lesser players couldnt have fun because the blocks stiffled and bashed them, the bigger players could have fun because there were too few targets.

PA had needed a shift in direction for a while, the community had changed yet the game had stayed still. We had the odd feature and fix here and there added but where the game was at and where the community was at was drifting further and further away . The problem with any change is people dont like it, they like things to be familar and will always be against changes. Even more so when you coniserder them as ways to hinder your progress like the big alliances did (ok there were aspects of this as many of the changes were there to level the playing field a bit) and they put so much pressure on them that it took no time for spinners plans to be watered down producing a game thats a mix of spinners initial idea and the old PA and due to this they simply lack any real punch and dont acheive anything, in fact in most cases its just picked up the bad points of each
Now you are bringing politics in it which for me as you probably know from some of my former threads is a real bug bear for me and ironically one of the things I believe has been neglected when looking at ways to make pa more competitive.

You are right, but not from the view that there were major elements wrong with the game mechanics, just that blocks wer and are being used to disproportionately influence the way the game develops.

For me the game mechanics wee not at fault, but hardcoding of politics are very much needed.

Again you have to ask yourself if changing the mechanics in the way that it was can actually solve what has turned into second nature for PA allainces.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 14:43   #40
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djcomplex
Read a few more posts and one phrase comes to mind "If it aint broke dont fix it", Planetarion before PaX technically wasnt broke the P2P factor lowered players numbers which lead onto bordem and stagnation, so Spinner et al instantly thought something new and radical needed to be done to spark up interest again, unfortunely they have only succeeded in dragging the game furthur down.

How about a test

Jolt for a week perhaps setup 2 versions of planetarion

one PaX code
one Pre PaX code

monitor players figures
use figure to project players interest if a full round was scheduled contact advertisers accordingly to ensure the round can be run for free.

Who knows i may be suprised and pax comes up as more popular but i cant really see that happening.....can you?
Problem is djcomplex is that while from your position in what undoubtably was a big alliance the game very well have been fine, but look a bit deeper and you would have seen there were some major things wrong and had been for a long time. People seem to forget this in the long run but while round 4 was the biggest round we have had it was the turning point in the game, there was a shift in the community which the game hadnt adjusted for and due to that people were getting pissed off and leaving. We will never know this for certain but going from the unrest in the community I believe even without p2p we were about to hit a downturn in numbers, p2p just helped make peoples minds up so rather than sticking it out a bit longer they quit at that point.. At that point the game became broken and we continued to play a game that was basically being kept together by sticky tape. Rather than reign the alliances in, explore other paths the game could take to keep the community spirt under the new condistions or focusing on making a game that attracts players rather than caters for players near the end of their pa lifespan they decided to basically sit still, make the odd change to appease the big alliance and pretty much hand power to allow them to bully the team down a development path that favoured them rather than the game as a whole
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 14:56   #41
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Problem is djcomplex is that while from your position in what undoubtably was a big alliance the game very well have been fine, but look a bit deeper and you would have seen there were some major things wrong and had been for a long time. People seem to forget this in the long run but while round 4 was the biggest round we have had it was the turning point in the game, there was a shift in the community which the game hadnt adjusted for and due to that people were getting pissed off and leaving. We will never know this for certain but going from the unrest in the community I believe even without p2p we were about to hit a downturn in numbers, p2p just helped make peoples minds up so rather than sticking it out a bit longer they quit at that point.. At that point the game became broken and we continued to play a game that was basically being kept together by sticky tape. Rather than reign the alliances in, explore other paths the game could take to keep the community spirt under the new condistions or focusing on making a game that attracts players rather than caters for players near the end of their pa lifespan they decided to basically sit still, make the odd change to appease the big alliance and pretty much hand power to allow them to bully the team down a development path that favoured them rather than the game as a whole
I don't find anything particularly true about any of your statement above.

Being a HC that has been on both sides of the fence (BD hc rounds 2 and 3 and Fang HC 7,8, and last roundand LEgion BC inbetween) I don't think alliances can bully development. What you do have in those alliances though are expeienced knowledge base of players though that can see problems and contributes views.

I think the biggest problems are to combat the actual direct issues of the game. The inabiity to actually resolve what is truely the problem and then impact that with a corect series of balanced changes(blocking, salvage ae a few issues that need tackling head on).

Wakey you started in the eary rounds of pa - when pa was without a doubt a growing and thriving community. Now think about what got YOU addicted to pa, now try and think what you would have done if you were confronted by the dross of PaXI. Simply PA is crap now compared to when you started I am guessing (I know thats one of the major reasons I left is that I just cannot be arsed to play PaXI). It was the simplisity which got you addicted.

Surely there were frustrating problems (server resilience, alliance blocking etc etc etc), but the game itself without those factors was easy and enjoyable to play.

I am not saying it was perfect or there isnt a real need to sort the actual issues, but PA was actually better to play as a game than in its current state.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 15:10   #42
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Wakey i do understand your point my main alliances in my pa career were FA, G-II and LDK none of which ever got away without being owned by another alliances. What this game needs is numbers and i think a shift back to an older version possibly bringing the in game alliance system with it would hopefully address the problems, an increase in numbers whilst keeping the alliance member limit would really add something to the game countless new alliances all aiming for that top spot.

Even 'peon' alliances like G-II really caused some problems for people Rnd 3/4 every alliance has a chance to make a difference if the numbers are there, ala a non p2p universe
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 15:12   #43
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Problem is djcomplex is that while from your position in what undoubtably was a big alliance the game very well have been fine
I have been in an "elite" alliance, and a top galaxy playing with some of the best players in the game. The most I've ever had though was when my newbie alliance attacked some other newbie alliance (we had 10 members, they had 11 or something). With a bigger universe there is more freedom for these sorts of silly diversions.

A smaller universe means pretty much everyone is drawn into the mega-blocks and thus the game is inherently more dull, irrespective of the style of gameplay adopted by alliances, etc.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 15:41   #44
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
I don't find anything particularly true about any of your statement above.

Being a HC that has been on both sides of the fence (BD hc rounds 2 and 3 and Fang HC 7,8, and last roundand LEgion BC inbetween) I don't think alliances can bully development. What you do have in those alliances though are expeienced knowledge base of players though that can see problems and contributes views.
Bullshit, EVERY time theres something thats not in their favour they pull the "We will quit card". Thats bullying development as it uses the immense power this threat holds to stear developement in their favour.

Take the discussions on what the alliance limit this round should be for example. There were two camps one of people who said it should be 50 (although tbh this was an extream view to bargin from and we were probally all looking for something closer to 75ish as a comprimise) and then the other camp (ie basically all the big alliances) saying how bad the limit is for them and how they would walk out if it went below 100. Due to the threat there simply wasnt even an attempt to find a comprimise that would limit the alliances a bit more, level the playing field and increase compitition.

No matter whjats being discussed once the top alliances throw the "we will quit" card they basically get whatever they want. In fact if it wasnt for 'problems; that prevent a reversal to old school pa that offers them even more of an advantage we would no doubt see that happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
Wakey you started in the eary rounds of pa - when pa was without a doubt a growing and thriving community. Now think about what got YOU addicted to pa, now try and think what you would have done if you were confronted by the dross of PaXI. Simply PA is crap now compared to when you started I am guessing (I know thats one of the major reasons I left is that I just cannot be arsed to play PaXI). It was the simplisity which got you addicted.

Surely there were frustrating problems (server resilience, alliance blocking etc etc etc), but the game itself without those factors was easy and enjoyable to play.

I am not saying it was perfect or there isnt a real need to sort the actual issues, but PA was actually better to play as a game than in its current state.
Yes the game was better to play in the earlier but what so many people seem to fail to realise is it really had very little to do with the game mechanics and the stats or even the number of players. It was more to do with that moment in time, at that point all the things just fitted perfectly, the community, the alliance sitiuation, the stats, the game mechanics ect ect which produced something that was fun to play. Now unless you happen to have a time machine that can take us all back to these times you have no way of getting that mix back again so looking to try and revert back simply isnt the key. We can never get those times back and we shouldnt wasnt time thinking how great it was back then and how we should reverrt back to the game of that round, we have to think about how to get the good aspects that had under the current conditions and how to improve the bad aspects. We have to move on not look back.

PAX isnt ideal but if you look at the wider picture it is alot more inviting to new and lesser players than PA from about round 7/8 was. Its still not that inviting (although better dealing of inactives would improve this a great deal) but at this time and under these circumstances its still better
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 15:56   #45
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Bullshit, EVERY time theres something thats not in their favour they pull the "We will quit card". Thats bullying development as it uses the immense power this threat holds to stear developement in their favour.

Take the discussions on what the alliance limit this round should be for example. There were two camps one of people who said it should be 50 (although tbh this was an extream view to bargin from and we were probally all looking for something closer to 75ish as a comprimise) and then the other camp (ie basically all the big alliances) saying how bad the limit is for them and how they would walk out if it went below 100. Due to the threat there simply wasnt even an attempt to find a comprimise that would limit the alliances a bit more, level the playing field and increase compitition.

No matter whjats being discussed once the top alliances throw the "we will quit" card they basically get whatever they want. In fact if it wasnt for 'problems; that prevent a reversal to old school pa that offers them even more of an advantage we would no doubt see that happen
I think this was true a a certain time in pa's history, but perhaps th doomsayers saying they would quit were right? Look at the amount of alliances that have just upped and left planetarion - is that coincidental it has happened a few rounds after PA changed or is it because PA changed? Simply plaers have teh right to voice there opinions and if quitting is a option then it will always have a major effect on the game,

Without wanting to seem unsympathetic I thin perhaps you need the right changes rather than forced bad changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Yes the game was better to play in the earlier but what so many people seem to fail to realise is it really had very little to do with the game mechanics and the stats or even the number of players. It was more to do with that moment in time, at that point all the things just fitted perfectly, the community, the alliance sitiuation, the stats, the game mechanics ect ect which produced something that was fun to play. Now unless you happen to have a time machine that can take us all back to these times you have no way of getting that mix back again so looking to try and revert back simply isnt the key. We can never get those times back and we shouldnt wasnt time thinking how great it was back then and how we should reverrt back to the game of that round, we have to think about how to get the good aspects that had under the current conditions and how to improve the bad aspects. We have to move on not look back.

PAX isnt ideal but if you look at the wider picture it is alot more inviting to new and lesser players than PA from about round 7/8 was. Its still not that inviting (although better dealing of inactives would improve this a great deal) but at this time and under these circumstances its still better
You are again partially right. Alliances in the earlier rounds were just "bedding down" as the player base exploded they would "take advantage of the position to ensure thee members performed better than anyon else. As rounds developed alliance politics become more defined and as they got more experience the bonds become tighter and tighter.

I don't ever think we will reach the "golden age" ever again. However I do believe by hardocding you can remove some of the barriers which led to that position. That doesn't mean changing the structure of the game, but actually bring politics in game,

As fr whether the starting method was beginer freindly from starting at tick 1 i agree its not that friendly - starting later in the rund galaxies tended to help there newer peeps (I know I always have(resourcs, finding alliances, learning how to play)). People will always feed on a smaller target cause that is the path of least resistance, but the best of the new arrivals adapted and came back.

I guess its a question of priorities but I guess this is where its really needs some PA interference in hard coding alliances and sorting the real issues lie how to start attracting new players back to PA.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 16:21   #46
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Politics being hardcoded is something which almost everyone has said they would like to see the problem is making it so it isnt abusable.Its been discussed on suggestions over and over again since about r2 or 3.

I could go on for pages ranting about the problems with the various incarnation of the idea but that might be overboard but lets just say ive read hundreds of these proposals and not once has anyone come up with a solution to the idea thats isnt so riddled with holes that its not really viable.

ofc if you have a way of doing this that deals with all the issues then feel free to share it on suggestions, i'm sure spinner would like to hear it because I know for a fact this has been something that Spinners always been intrested in adding (as he would say everytime he said in the replies to the suggestion forum digest email i used to have to send to him)
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 16:44   #47
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

hard coding alliances is unfeasable, placing artificial limits will always lead to people 'playing' them for maximum advantage. therefore, the only feasable way to reduce blocking is to make it less effective. however, doing this would require major change, which people always seem to object to

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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 16:55   #48
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
hard coding alliances is unfeasable, placing artificial limits will always lead to people 'playing' them for maximum advantage. therefore, the only feasable way to reduce blocking is to make it less effective. however, doing this would require major change, which people always seem to object to

-mist
You already have hard coded alliances - the next step would be to hardcode 1 partner with an eta advantage similar to cluster eta (alliance/allies/universe type thing).

That way you always have dynamic politics even if the game becomes stagnant.

You cannot make it less effective - people will always find ways to abuse it until it is hard coded.
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 16:56   #49
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Politics being hardcoded is something which almost everyone has said they would like to see the problem is making it so it isnt abusable.Its been discussed on suggestions over and over again since about r2 or 3.

I could go on for pages ranting about the problems with the various incarnation of the idea but that might be overboard but lets just say ive read hundreds of these proposals and not once has anyone come up with a solution to the idea thats isnt so riddled with holes that its not really viable.

ofc if you have a way of doing this that deals with all the issues then feel free to share it on suggestions, i'm sure spinner would like to hear it because I know for a fact this has been something that Spinners always been intrested in adding (as he would say everytime he said in the replies to the suggestion forum digest email i used to have to send to him)
already have
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Unread 14 Jul 2004, 17:36   #50
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Re: Jolt meeting, Your questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
already have
If its what you posted above its very simplistic and doesnt really achieve anything
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