Planetarion Forums - To save time later on

Knight Theamion · 22 May 2003, 21:56

cochese wins.

Kjeldoran · 22 May 2003, 22:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse
We could end up with most alliances playing solo and for 'fun' since they won't want to burn any bridges that they may need for round 10 (the next real round), or upset people with dodgy tactics.

well I do hope all alliance blow up their bridges for r10 and go solo for once (but I'm sure some will call in lame excuses as "they blocked first" so ...)

guess I can keep on dreaming

ComradeRob · 22 May 2003, 23:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Turning the argument around a little, considering that 'everyone' is going solo shouldn't the winner of 9.5 be considered MORE worthy for having won a round alone?

Not really - I don't see why that equates to 'worthiness' - I think you are semi-trolling though

.

This thread has proved Scouse's original point though; imagine this debate at the end of r9.5 with the 'winners' having a vested interest in making sure that r9.5 is seen as a proper round and the losers insisting that it wasn't. Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if this thread was just a ruse to get a bunch of people to make these statements now so that they can be quoted on them at the end of r9.5

G.K Zhukov · 22 May 2003, 23:45

Rob, with so many "exelent" quotes from Germania on this forum about r8, who needs more?

Scouse · 23 May 2003, 00:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Cochese
The "winners" of r9.5 will be as unofficial as the "winners" of round 8.

Yeah, I heard you guys are going to really try and scrape some respect by winning round 9.5.

LaNi said it best.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Turning the argument around a little, considering that 'everyone' is going solo shouldn't the winner of 9.5 be considered MORE worthy for having won a round alone?

That assuming everyone doesn't ally to some degree. This isn't a real round really, considering the way it's starting etc. Plus we don't know how long it's going to be.

If it's 1500+ ticks then I'd agree, but I assume it won't be.

As rob said, imagine this at the end of the round. But it would seem those already aiming to win want to try and make it into more than it is.

And let's not bring round 8 into yet another thread please.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2003, 00:50

'We beat you fair and square even though you were only playing for a laugh', gayle.

Cochese · 23 May 2003, 02:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse
Yeah, I heard you guys are going to really try and scrape some respect by winning round 9.5

My alliance just won a round, why on Earth would we need to "scrape up" respect?

Quote:

LaNi said it best.

No offence, but LaNi doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2003, 02:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Cochese
My alliance just won a round, why on Earth would we need to "scrape up" respect?

Mostly it'll be people who can't accept their alliance didn't win, having played 'seriously' or nay, who will complain; much like this round where people have been moaning about stagnation since the end of protection.

If you thought r8 was bad, this will put that in a whole new perspective.

aza1 · 23 May 2003, 03:40

Quote:

Originally posted by ComradeRob
Not really - I don't see why that equates to 'worthiness' - I think you are semi-trolling though .

This thread has proved Scouse's original point though; imagine this debate at the end of r9.5 with the 'winners' having a vested interest in making sure that r9.5 is seen as a proper round and the losers insisting that it wasn't. Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if this thread was just a ruse to get a bunch of people to make these statements now so that they can be quoted on them at the end of r9.5

I think she does have a point actually. In that if all alliances go solo the potential pool from which a winner can be drawn is much larger, and thus individual talent will be more of a factor. The blocking of last round effectively gave loyal vvomm and nar people absolutely no chance of being number one planet, let alone top50.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2003, 03:43

Quote:

Originally posted by aza1
I think she does have a point actually. In that if all alliances go solo the potential pool from which a winner can be drawn is much larger, and thus individual talent will be more of a factor. The blocking of last round effectively gave loyal vvomm and nar people absolutely no chance of being number one planet, let alone top50.

'We won the round, we're great!'
'No you're not we weren't trying!'
'Yes you were!'
'No we weren't, and URE GAY!'
ad infinitum.

ComradeRob · 23 May 2003, 04:08

Quote:

Originally posted by aza1
I think she does have a point actually. In that if all alliances go solo the potential pool from which a winner can be drawn is much larger, and thus individual talent will be more of a factor. The blocking of last round effectively gave loyal vvomm and nar people absolutely no chance of being number one planet, let alone top50.

I disagree with this simply because it represents a 'slippery slope' of opinion. Once you accept that some victories are more 'worthy' than others, or that some people 'deserved' to win more than others, then you are faced with an endless list of opposing arguments about which victories were worth most. I don't think that r9.5 is worth less than r9 or any other round because of the length of the round or the lack of a price to play. Nor do I think that r9 was less than any other round because of how it was played. Each round is what you make of it - the people not playing r9.5 will of course not regard it as important compared to r9, but people playing r9 actively (and in particular new players playing for the first time) will regard it as just as important as any other round.

Furthermore, r9.5 might be only a stopgap round, but it also has the potential (with random galaxies and 100% free accounts) to be hugely fun. There hasn't been a free random round since round 3, (round 2 if you want to be pedantic and say that r3 galaxies were not fully random). This could well be the best Planetarion round since then - I think that the winners of the round should be perfectly entitled to be happy with their victory.

I'm a bit disappointed in those who are trying to pre-emptively discredit the result (presumably because they expect 'unworthy' alliances to win whilst their 1337 clique take a round off). Frankly, this kind of attitude towards PA is incredibly destructive - trying to discredit the hard work of others in such a way is insulting, in my opinion.

Just let people play the damn game, and if they win then let them be happy about it, for they will surely deserve it.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2003, 04:15

Quote:

Originally posted by ComradeRob
Frankly, this kind of attitude towards PA is incredibly destructive - trying to discredit the hard work of others in such a way is insulting, in my opinion.

Just like complaining that a round is horribly stagnated when it isn't.

Betting that we'll have The Usual Suspects along for this one?

aza1 · 23 May 2003, 04:28

ok i see your point Rob, but in in my opinion wins are in certain rounds are more the product of good alliances than individual players within that alliance.

I am taking nothing away from the high calibre of eclipse/tot players, but i think the politics of the round and the ability of eclipse to influence people which is prob unparalled alliance wise makes most ppl believe these were of greater importance than standout individual performances.

Titans/ldk win in rd8 would have been more attributed to thier players than there political skills imho.

Once again this is not a flame, just my opinion on the win. All wins are a win and should be classed equally; though the means to an end in every round is different.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2003, 04:29

Quote:

Originally posted by aza1
the ability of eclipse to influence people which is prob unparalled alliance wise

I still don't see where people are getting this idea that Eclipse engineered the entire round for their own benefit; if we did, then we'd be frankly UNSTOPPABLE.

aza1 · 23 May 2003, 04:43

maybe i am the victim of propaganda!

Cochese · 23 May 2003, 04:46

Quote:

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
I still don't see where people are getting this idea that Eclipse engineered the entire round for their own benefit; if we did, then we'd be frankly UNSTOPPABLE.

They didn't have to, their enemies did it wonderfully for them

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2003, 04:49

Quote:

Originally posted by aza1
maybe i am the victim of propaganda!

Just maybe, you know?

LaNiCoR · 23 May 2003, 08:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Cochese
No offence, but LaNi doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

I could try and argue this point, pointless though it would be, maybe I could try and convince you all of my above average intelligence, my fantastic wit or even my magnetic personallity, or then again I could just follow the advice of a great mind and tell you to

"eat my ass"

I'll even provide the spoon.

LaNiCoR

hAl · 23 May 2003, 08:27

Clearly if there ever was a round to forget quickly it was round 9. If 9.5 has any kind of decent gameplay it will outshine round 9 by miles anyways cause that round had none whatsoever.

But frankly I do not expect much of r9.5 really. It is a really easy round to cheat in and I'm sure many will try again and I'm sure we'll see some dubieus pacts from people desparate to win even though they claim to be doing things solo. Unless a whole huge new group of people comes in for this round I do not see reason why it would be much better cause it is the people that make the round and in r9.5 it will be mostly the same bunch of lamers, cheaters, whingers, bashers, backstabbers as it was in r9.

hAl

Jonas · 23 May 2003, 09:21

I will put it in my signature if i win

Maddix · 23 May 2003, 11:33

Quote:

Originally posted by ComradeRob
What he's suggesting is that alliances shouldn't play to win - at least not to win 'at all costs' as they have in the past, involving making blocks and using politics to win the round. So, he disapproves of you (WP) wanting to 'win' r9.5, because he thinks that the 'win at all costs' attitude will probably appear again.

My personal opinion is this: it's a game. If you enjoy it, then you've 'won'. If you don't enjoy it, go do something else.

I hope that the idea of alliances playing solo does work, though I do anticipate certain alliances being more heavily targetted than others . I actually look forward to having a tougher test than r9, and to those who want 'revenge' I can only say "bring it on"

Its almost like me and Rob are the same person !!!

(These boards need some new rumours to pray on

)

gzambo · 23 May 2003, 11:36

good point rob however i can see a situation where some alliances use rd 9.5 to get revenge on certain alliances thus joining together to achieve that goal and bringing back the whole blocking scenario
yes it is lame but i can still see it happening

ComradeRob · 23 May 2003, 11:57

Quote:

Originally posted by aza1
ok i see your point Rob, but in in my opinion wins are in certain rounds are more the product of good alliances than individual players within that alliance.

I am taking nothing away from the high calibre of eclipse/tot players, but i think the politics of the round and the ability of eclipse to influence people which is prob unparalled alliance wise makes most ppl believe these were of greater importance than standout individual performances.

Titans/ldk win in rd8 would have been more attributed to thier players than there political skills imho.

Once again this is not a flame, just my opinion on the win. All wins are a win and should be classed equally; though the means to an end in every round is different.

I hate to say it, but I think you're wrong

Titans/LDK played a good political round in r8. Their position, whether intended or not, was a strong one, with most of the attention being focussed on Fury (and their partners) and Adelante (and their partners). The early phase of the round saw those two blocks in opposition, with Titans/LDK relatively neutral to each - there was certainly no unified opposition to Titans/LDK until it was plainly obvious that they had victory within their grasp. This was at least partly intentional, as they had negotiations with WP/Ely (at least on an informal level) which had encouraged them to assist Titans/LDK for a time.

Against this background, there were some excellent individual performances, but it's wrong to say that it was nothing to do with politics.

Likewise in r9, politics again played a key role. But there were still individuals who performed extremely well, and worked very hard to win. Particularly in the last war, Eclipse/ToT were facing an enemy with superior numbers and we had to perform well in order to win.

I just don't buy the theory that r8 and r9 were really so different in terms of how they were played. Random galaxies were the only substantial difference, and if r8 had been private then I fully expect that it would have been very similar to r9. And I don't think that winning in r8 is a sign of any greater dedication, skill or achievement than winning in r9 - or any other round.

Quote:

Originally posted by gzambo

good point rob however i can see a situation where some alliances use rd 9.5 to get revenge on certain alliances thus joining together to achieve that goal and bringing back the whole blocking scenario
yes it is lame but i can still see it happening

Most of the major alliances have said that they intend to go solo; the outcome of the round depends on whether or not they mean it. If they do, that's great, if they don't... I wouldn't be surprised.

skipper · 23 May 2003, 12:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Cochese
The "winners" of r9.5 will be as unofficial as the "winners" of round 8.

...for alliances like Madcows and FanG

The ones that are doing well dont agree with Scouse and the ones that are doing not so well are agreeing. Smart peeps keep their mouths shut atm. So they can scream we won if they win or whine that it wasnt a real round if they wont win.

ComradeRob · 23 May 2003, 12:08

Quote:

Originally posted by skipper
...for alliances like Madcows and FanG

The ones that are doing well dont agree with Scouse and the ones that are doing not so well are agreeing. Smart peeps keep their mouths shut atm. So they can scream we won if they win or whine that it wasnt a real round if they wont win.

Where 'smart' equals 'incredibly pathetic', yes.

skipper · 23 May 2003, 12:16

Quote:

Originally posted by ComradeRob
Where 'smart' equals 'incredibly pathetic', yes.

yup, but as we've seen some people have already gave their thoughts about r9.5 so if Eclipse or ToT wins. In ie Madcows camp they are considered as the alliance that won two rounds in a row

Sirad · 23 May 2003, 12:31

Quote:

Originally posted by skipper
yup, but as we've seen some people have already gave their thoughts about r9.5 so if Eclipse or ToT wins. In ie Madcows camp they are considered as the alliance that won two rounds in a row

whom are you to speak on behalf of them ?

I'm jsut genuinely curious as I dont know you

Sirad · 23 May 2003, 12:32

Quote:

Originally posted by ComradeRob
Where 'smart' equals 'incredibly pathetic', yes.

so because I dont waste a lot of time here thus keeping my mouth shut yea I do love your logic there ..

mcnally · 23 May 2003, 12:40

Skipper whoever you are, could you tell us. Because you aint a member of madcows and as such you really shouldnt speak on behalf of madcows either.
Pretty sure Fang feels it the same way, unless your a member there ofc.

ComradeRob · 23 May 2003, 12:42

Quote:

Originally posted by skipper
yup, but as we've seen some people have already gave their thoughts about r9.5 so if Eclipse or ToT wins. In ie Madcows camp they are considered as the alliance that won two rounds in a row

I don't see why you mention specific alliances there - I'm sure whichever alliance wins will take r9.5 seriously (if they didn't take it seriously then they wouldn't win).

Seriously though, who the hell cares? It's a game. Let the people who play the game decide what it means to them. Eclipse will play, and we will play to have fun and win if we can. Personally I regard r9.5 as something similar to a pre-season friendly football match - it's nice to win, but not a disaster if we lose.

Quote:

Originally posted by sirad
so because I dont waste a lot of time here thus keeping my mouth shut yea I do love your logic there ..

Read his post. He said that 'smart' people were not saying anything now, so they could claim that r9.5 matters only if they win at the end, or that it doesn't matter if they lose. I described this as 'pathetic' - where's the flaw in my 'logic'?

Sirad · 23 May 2003, 12:49

Read his post. He said that 'smart' people were not saying anything now, so they could claim that r9.5 matters only if they win at the end, or that it doesn't matter if they lose. I described this as 'pathetic' - where's the flaw in my 'logic'? [/b][/quote]

I'm not saying anything about r9.5 now because i dont really care about it as I've better things to do so dose that make me 'pathetic' <- my point on the flaw

ComradeRob · 23 May 2003, 12:51

Quote:

Originally posted by sirad
I'm not saying anything about r9.5 now because i dont really care about it as I've better things to do so dose that make me 'pathetic' <- my point on the flaw

Only if you decide that r9.5 is really important after you (or your alliance) has won.

Sirad · 23 May 2003, 12:59

Quote:

Originally posted by ComradeRob
Only if you decide that r9.5 is really important after you (or your alliance) has won.

That would be difficult for me to know who wins 9.5 considering I'll know in r10

[i2k]Xy · 23 May 2003, 15:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Bongdage
you're such a fag scouse :/

word.

SpazMonster · 23 May 2003, 15:26

I think it all boils down to this:

Quote:

Originally posted by ComradeRob

Just let people play the damn game

Ditcher · 23 May 2003, 15:42

Victory is victory who cares if the round is unofficial or not. People will still remember who did well and did not.

Scouse · 23 May 2003, 16:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Cochese
My alliance just won a round, why on Earth would we need to "scrape up" respect?

Come again?

"We won because we had fun"?

Cochese · 23 May 2003, 17:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse
Come again?

"We won because we had fun"?

'Retirement' has slowed you considerably, but I'll let you try and figure it out.

Scouse · 23 May 2003, 17:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Cochese
'Retirement' has slowed you considerably, but I'll let you try and figure it out.

Not at all, I just care less.

But if this involves you leaving your beloved MadCows I'll be amused to no end.

Cochese · 23 May 2003, 17:48

Have fun then Scouse.

djcomplex · 23 May 2003, 17:53

yus cochese done teh dirty and defected to Eclipse

Preach · 23 May 2003, 18:01

congrats Cochese on winning a round by changing alliance to one that couldnt possibly have more different ideals from your previous alliance. I hope you don't feel like you sold out any of your old friends in Madcows.

Scouse · 23 May 2003, 18:02

I suppose I could have a go at you for your failure, your lack of loyalty or the fact that you're running from your mistakes.

But I won't.

Cochese · 23 May 2003, 18:30

Luckily for you Scouse, our failure lies in the hands of other people, my loyalty is unquestionable within reason and sense, and the few mistakes I made this round I didn't run from.

I'll post a thread properly to adress these issues and others, and leave this thread to it's original point (if it has one anymore).

Scouse · 23 May 2003, 18:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Cochese
our failure lies in the hands of other people

Your success or failure always lies in the hands of other people in team games, and especially in PA.

Baco · 23 May 2003, 19:15

About Cochese I can only say that I can't understand why some1 would leave his aliance, being HC, to another without telling his m8s about it and keep idling in their chans....too low...

About the topic I don't see no reason not to declare a winner for round 9.5 as well...I don't care tbh, but most of us don't play "just for fun" so why not look at it like another round? . It will be a shorter round indeed, but the begin will be faster as well and I'm sure a lot of good battles will happen during R9.5... Personally I'll try to do my best as ussually, why wouldn't u do the same?!

But I don't care!!
I'll just play my game.

Cochese · 23 May 2003, 19:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Baco
About Cochese I can only say that I can't understand why some1 would leave his aliance, being HC, to another without telling his m8s about it and keep idling in their chans....too low...

I told them when I quit, and they removed my forum/irc access within 24 hours (this was about a month ago). My access in the general channel on CowNet was removed when all members were purged, which was before I joined Eclipse. Essentially, they kicked all members and you had to come back and re-join. I didn't come back and re-join, so do the maths.

I never idled in any channels (since I don't have access) and even if I did, what little I know about Cows I take with me to the grave.

You're really in no position to talk about any of this Baco, you were just as incompetant as the rest of us.

skipper · 24 May 2003, 14:10

Quote:

Originally posted by sirad
whom are you to speak on behalf of them ?

I'm jsut genuinely curious as I dont know you

As Chocese said r9.5 is as important as r8 I _considered_ your playing this as real round, the FanG part slipped because some1 from FanG agreed to Chocese so I apologise from that to FanG, but the whole comment was meant as a joke, which is why I typed the stupid smile for people like you to get it.

[Edit] I thought Chocese is still MadCows so nm my earlier posts heh [/Edit]

cypher · 24 May 2003, 14:57

funny that someone who's supposed to be retired talks about this...:S besides.. if you win this round it'll count as much as any other... as all alliances will play seriously like other alliances etc...so pointless to say it doesn't count.. and quite pathetic aswell.

Scouse · 24 May 2003, 15:11

Quote:

Originally posted by cyphie
funny that someone who's supposed to be retired talks about this...:S besides.. if you win this round it'll count as much as any other... as all alliances will play seriously like other alliances etc...so pointless to say it doesn't count.. and quite pathetic aswell.

I take it you'll be farming and escorting yourself into the top 10 again then?

My point was that if round 9.5 is 900 ticks long, and given the start, and the approach taken by alliances, it wouldn't count as a real win.

I'll just look forward to this debate at the end of round 9.5, when it actually will matter to a lot of people.