who gets the blame?

[virogenesis]

I would just like to make a debate about who is to blame for the way the uni is atm.

The blocks that were formed or....the pa crew.
Before the round started I spoke to WebAngel & asked him what was the reason behind vom forming & what I was told was...
The uni is far to small & he wanted pure gals that way no staganation would take place but for him to do that he needed to fill the gals & the only way to do this was either have a pure alliance gal or to form a block so he could fill the gals with just allies.
Now I fully understand where WA was coming from now as I myself have seen the state of the universe.
I don't blame vom for forming at all now but at the start.
In some ways I blame nar for napping with weet as it would have meant a more even fight for vom.

Spinner\pa crew have not listened to what the hcs want instead they have tried to play the politics & acty like god which you can not do when you have to pay for I am afraid.
Hopefully they will listen to what the hcs\players want which is random as this will count down the numbers of blocks forming but I know myself this will increase the number of account sharers\multis.
AS long as private gals are around alliances will work together to fill those gals to increase the chances of success.
Many believe including myself that the time travel idea that the pa crew thought up will destroy the alliances which in turn will kill the game so listen to us as we are the gamers who have to put up with things & Jolt better make free accounts as ppl will keep on leaving & very soon the core will be gone now i know jolt want to make money & they will if they bring back free accounts for a round.
I already know how the gals will be set up next round if private gals are allowed to form.

I personaly feel that the way the round went this round with private gals will happen time & time again unless something is done.

I have come to the idea that we are both in the wrong by each of us trying to control the flow of the game.

Who are we going to blame?
The blocks......alliances & if so which one?
or
The pa crew?

I would like to hear from different sides not just one
Please discuss in orderly fashion & not just flame each other saying how they dosed our servers as that might not be the case.
Thank you

[Gerbie]

First of all I don't see any blame for PA team. I like to blame them for a lot of things, but not this.

I don't really blame any particular alliances. IMO VoM mad a mistake when they announced their block. They should have blamed others for the need to form their block (we have intel that others have already formed blocks, so we see no other way then to form a small block of our own). Just a small mistake though, and i wonder if it would have mattered.
NaR simply made a huge mistake by thinking NARWEET could survive the stagnation that was about to come. You can't blame anyone for stupidity.
WE overestimated themselves twice. First by thinking they could defeat ET, secondly by thinking they could get allies against ET, while everybody was gloating on how they got bashed. But this was late in the round. The third stagnation might have been prevented if they had had more insight and had sought allies before the inevitable split. But again you can't blame anyone for stupidity.
If no E vs T war starts then I'll have them to blaim. Unless it starts and one side loses, in which case I might call one side stupid again...

Anyway, all will be fixed in round 10.

[Hicks]

Originally posted by Gerbie
Anyway, all will be fixed in round 10.

How exactly do you purpose to fix the attitudes of the players ?

[Terminator2003]

Originally posted by Hicks
How exactly do you purpose to fix the attitudes of players like Hicks?

[Hicks]

I see what you did there, you took my post, quoted it and added my name to it. I have to say I like it, it's witty, orginal AND clever.

[Gerbie]

Originally posted by Hicks
How exactly do you purpose to fix the attitudes of the players ?

I don't expect their attitudes to change.

I hope some will get wiser. Others will be guided by incentives incoded in the new round. I hope.

[Wrath of Azure]

I would say it's the alliances + players and not pa crew. They're trying to help by making the round random, will that help?

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Hicks
I see what you did there, you took my post, quoted it and added my name to it. I have to say I like it, it's witty, orginal AND clever.

You think I'll be able to do it one day aswell?

rgds Kj

[Obfuscator]

Originally posted by Hicks
I see what you did there, you took my post, quoted it and added my name to it. I have to say I like it, it's witty, orginal AND clever.

He's known for just such cleverness. It's what makes him the most popular poster on AD.

[Edit] To answer your question viro, I will have to blame alliances. I'm not sure how forming a block with or without fully-stacked private galaxies does ANYTHING to reduce the chances of stagnation in a round. The only excuse for it is if there was a high probability of other alliances blocking anyway, in which case the blame still rests with the "first mover" alliances.

[Jester]

Originally posted by Obfuscator
[Edit] To answer your question viro, I will have to blame alliances. I'm not sure how forming a block with or without fully-stacked private galaxies does ANYTHING to reduce the chances of stagnation in a round. The only excuse for it is if there was a high probability of other alliances blocking anyway, in which case the blame still rests with the "first mover" alliances.

It doesn't. The whole Olympians idea that it will is a twisted perversion. Fact is that no matter how many blocks you have, the game will always end in stagnation.

This is empirically true, but I'm not sure if it's correct to apply induction to it. Theoretically there exists enough firepower to take out Eclipse and ToT at this point. Not only are there many, many more fleets, but there is still enough score to give every Eclipse/ToT galaxy twice their score in incoming. That said, it's completely unrealistic to expect this to happen. Likewise it has been theoretically possible in rounds previous, but usually by this time people are too tired of the game to bother with herculean efforts. Even stuff like the hits on Yeh in r5 are just chaotic pissups and not actual organized resistance.

Jester

[Anihilat0r]

I blame 'NAR'

[rnd|One]

Biggest block wins the game with private galaxies around. If you're not part of the monster block there's not much incentive in even playing the round. Nobody really cares about this either since, if it gets you the win, then there's nothing wrong with it and the winners are praised for their skillz and game-eye.

r10's introduction of game design changes could alter this for the better or worse.

[Jester]

Originally posted by rnd|One
Biggest block wins the game with private galaxies around. If you're not part of the monster block there's not much incentive in even playing the round. Nobody really cares about this either since, if it gets you the win, then there's nothing wrong with it and the winners are praised for their skillz and game-eye.

That's a horrible simplification and I hope no one seriously agrees with you.

Jester

[Cochese]

The blame lies squarely--as it always does--on the shoulders of the players, and those who shaped the round with their various moves and choices.

A little blame can be placed on the Creators for not resetting and doing r9.5 or early havoc, etc. Even in a "hold over" round like this one, where they basically don't care and are keeping us "busy" until r10, paying customers demand a certain level of attention.

Deny them that attention, and you deny yourselves their loyalty as customers in the future.

[Teh_Necro]

The pa crew said that this round was intended to do nothing more than to satisify us untill we await for r10, thus i don't think if there was any blame for this round, that they would particuarly care, they did it to satisify us...

The blame imo lies with NaR and WEET for allowing one another in each others galaxies, had the followed VoM's trend then we would of seen a much more fludidic universe.

-Necro

[Jester]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
The blame imo lies with NaR and WEET for allowing one another in each others galaxies, had the followed VoM's trend then we would of seen a much more fludidic universe.

The end result of this sort of gameplay is no different from gameplay where blocks are interspersed.

Jester

[Legator]

Originally posted by Anihilat0r
I blame 'NAR'

good

[Sergio]

Originally posted by Anihilat0r
I blame 'NAR'

Seconded

[hAl]

Originally posted by Jester
That's a horrible simplification and I hope no one seriously agrees with you.

Jester

Well, I agreed with most of it...

[Jester]

Originally posted by hAl
Well, I agreed with most of it...

Some of what he said was reasonable if you add a few more conditions. The problem is that he's blatantly ignoring the fact that in the past, with big blocks, it was still possible to play under the radar of the bigger players/alliances. He's also claiming that winners are praised, which is bullocks, winners usually take the brunt of it on AD. Not to mention he's completely wrong in saying that not being in the biggest block means you 'should not play'. I'm loathe to do this, but here goes.

WARNING - ROUND 6 EXAMPLE AHEAD





















In round 6 FLTV played like fiends even though they were outnumbered, outgunned and eventually 'lost'. They still pulled a rather decent round out of it and cemented some already pretty impressive reputations.

Jester

[rnd|One]

Originally posted by Jester
Some of what he said was reasonable if you add a few more conditions.

Generally speaking...

Round - winnerblock vs. loserblock

r4 - VeX vs. WTF
Long round with good battles. Big playerbase assured that. Last free round. P2P begins. Universe shrinks from 180k to ~25k.

r5 - WTF+VE+EasterBunny vs. NoCeX
NoCeX never had a chance.

r6 - XeTa+(alliances that are to form FoS) vs. FLTV
r6(later) - FLTVFoS+EasterBunny vs. XE
Impressive start by FLTV is taken away for most parts. Leaves enough score on several planets and time in the round to grow back when left alone. They have a say into the round as is shown when everyone teams against XE, but are out of the race for top spots, which FoS manages to claim for most parts while XE keeps #1 planet.

r7 - FLVTTROFLTOMATO vs. NEWX
I didn't play and a faint memory, but it didn't seem like NEWX ever had a real chance.

r8 - Tits/LDK/ViRuS + WE vs. Fury+FanG/ToT/(Adelante)
Random round. Perhaps at such the fighting lasted for a long, long time and kept the round enjoyable for most of the alliances and players in the game.

r9 - WEET+(NAR) vs. VOMMV
r9(later) - WEET vs NAR(+VOMMV)
r9(later) - ET vs WE
Seemed like 2 days of war (add ½day for NAR war). Doomsday replica of r5, r7? WE/ET split brings fun back to the block that already won with a good week and a half of fighting. 30days of waiting afterwards even so.


As I said there isn't much incentive to play in rounds where your alliance/block is nearly destined to lose even before ticks are on. For players whom are here to fight against all odds, that is OK, but many choose the easy way as it doesn't appeal to be on-line all day spending time on a dying game. A game where only recently actions against organized cheating have taken place for real (and as usual after the round is what one could call 'over'), casting a huge shadow on all efforts of past rounds.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by rnd|One
r8 - Tits/LDK/ViRuS + WE vs. Fury+FanG/ToT/(Adelante)
Random round. Perhaps at such the fighting lasted for a long, long time and kept the round enjoyable for most of the alliances and players in the game.

That's a terrible way of summarising round 8 politics. You make out like that's how the round began, when it was nothing of the sort. And we were never on the WE side.


Round 8 was nowhere near decided before it began and all the other rounds were basically 1 v 1. Round 8 wasn't.

[Jester]

rnd|One: There are several flaws, and in fact some of the examples you brought forth counter your own 'theory'. You're simply disregarding the facts for a simplified view on how the game works.

For example: WE outnumbered ET, scorewise they were approximately equal. ET won.

Round 8: Like Scouse said, you simplified it beyond recognition.

You also exaggerated the round 7 sides beyond the ridiculous. Please try to stick to factual content.

Jester

[MotoX]

Erm… this is just too much fun isn’t it?
Us here to discuss stagnation and still people continue to enforce it.

How easy it would be to say lets break up and play and get together again next round but no no no let this round die again and lose more players…

You will wake up one day and see only your self on the battlefield – how fun is that?

To blame = ignorant bastards who cant realize facts! People who sets there own personal prestige in front of the community and HC:s that soon enough will play this game by themselves……….

So many rounds and so many lost players – you can all blame the cost aspect or the private gals but it all comes down to one thing: FUN, People will stay, continue to play this game if its fun!
And stagnation isn’t!!!

[Jester]

Originally posted by MotoX
stuff

Moron.

Jester

[MotoX]

Originally posted by Jester
Moron.

Jester

Oh and one more thing – people with comments like the above.

[Baco]

I blame Nar & PAcrew for the paras...

[Jester]

Originally posted by MotoX
Oh and one more thing – people with comments like the above.

That's rich. What am I doing to propel PA into stagnation?

Jester

[coza]

Round 10 might be a bit more interesting but spinner is doing some things which killmar didwith his bot and got deleted for

1- KIllmark had a bot to log in and send his fleet, he got banned or whatever from pa...
Now..

This weeks Ch log shows that spinner is implementing anew launch thing where u put the launch time in and itsends..
im sure pa is a game of skill and activity..


Spinner shot himself in the foot there ^^ etc..

Anyway One good Thing coming to round 10 is that the game will be random or so i hear?
well power blocking might be a bit difficult to start then
at least they have done one good thing :P

[MotoX]

Originally posted by Jester
That's rich. What am I doing to propel PA into stagnation?

Jester

Nothing only giving a none mature comment.

[WebAngel]

Originally posted by Gerbie
...
... IMO VoM mad a mistake when they announced their block. They should have blamed others for the need to form their block (we have intel that others have already formed blocks, so we see no other way then to form a small block of our own). Just a small mistake though, and i wonder if it would have mattered.....

VOM has never made such an announcement, SWEET leaked it on purpose. I would like to tell you one more thing, WP and Ely have always been together and WP+Ely were about the same size as VOM. VOM has never been the first block in r9 but for those who believes SWEET's propaganda.

Canada gets the blame

[Saitam]

Originally posted by WebAngel
VOM has never made such an announcement, SWEET leaked it on purpose. I would like to tell you one more thing, WP and Ely have always been together and WP+Ely were about the same size as VOM. VOM has never been the first block in r9 but for those who believes SWEET's propaganda.

How long is "always"? To be honest I remember a number of rounds where Elysium were at war with WP, not to mention that Elysium is older than WP (as an alliance).

Also I would like you to name the exact number of members inall alliances as you clearly knew all this.

[virogenesis]

Saitam I believe it was r4\r5 but really they might have well have been working with each other since wp has been formed but personaly I blame vom, nar, we\et & pa crew for the state of the universe because vom...started a block to survive, weet formed to 0wn the universe nar formed to stand a chance but then later helped out weet by allowing a nap because of shared gals.
PaCrew because they have not listend to me & others when we have warned them time & time again about private gals I don't think it will not stop blocking but it should pervent it a bit just like alarm systems will not stop ppl from breaking in.
Many say they will leave if random came back but I don't really think so & should bring some ppl back as alliances will not be able to play the politics of the game so easy.
That is what I just what I believe but not sure others would agree with me.

[Anihilat0r]

WP and Elysium were at war during a large part of Round 6 of course... WP being part of FoS and Elysium being Xe(Ta).

[rnd|One]

Originally posted by Scouse
That's a terrible way of summarising round 8 politics. And we were never on the WE side.

No official relations, true. WE leaned on Fury targets all round.
Targets were taken eventually from the same targetlist used by Titans, LDK, ViRuS and hostilities against each other were avoided whenever noticed.

Originally posted by Jester
For example: WE outnumbered ET, scorewise they were approximately equal. ET won.

Summarising past rounds on a few sentences can hardly give every twist and turn in them. I believe we all agree on that. It did in all its simplicity give a rough view on how several wars in the past have left the otherside on the receiving end from the word go.

WP has a lot of drone members sending mainly defence only. Elysium and Eclipse alone were outroiding WP daily, even with half the memberbase. ET's main strength was control of most of the t10 galaxies. Depends where you're looking at, or willing to look, to notice whom was outnumbered in a sense that matters.

[Sir_Kon]

Originally posted by rnd|One
r9 - WEET+(NAR) vs. VOMMV
r9(later) - WEET vs NAR(+VOMMV)
r9(later) - ET vs WE

:0 thats incorrect
Should be:

r9 - WEET+(NAR) vs. VOMMV
r9(later) - WEET vs NAR
r9(later) - ET vs WE

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by Sir_Kon
:0 thats incorrect
Should be:

r9 - WEET+(NAR) vs. VOMMV
r9(later) - WEET vs NAR
r9(later) - ET vs WE

Then why did Petru (or Maddix- cant remember who exactly) mention upon these very boards that cooperation with VoM wasn't very good?

[Cochese]

Originally posted by Zh|l
Then why did Petru (or Maddix- cant remember who exactly) mention upon these very boards that cooperation with VoM wasn't very good?

Probably because not all of VoM knew they were allied/working with NaR

[lokken]

I blame the opposition that weren't good enough to give Eclipse/ToT decent enough competition. It was far far far far too easy for them.

[DukePaul]

how about sueing apple, coz their idiotic company made it too easy for microsoft to get monopoly?