confused? then maybe listen ....

[Kjeldoran]

Clearly some (EVERYONE) is getting me entirely wrong again, not a surprise and yes it's probably my own fault.

Maybe my replies haven't been that clear, and most of the time I was pissed when I replied so I'll try to refrain my statements, my opinions etc.

First of all, I didn't know about the "shared" issues Parra kindly posted. I didn't know several things in there and I'd have appreciated if either zeus or Titans HC gave me that info earlier, but they didn't. Nway I'm glad I know it now and for me the subject is dropped.

Then, do I allow cheating? NO ... does that mean I will kick a member/friend/HC from my alliance? NO.

I think everyone who would kick a friend or HC from his alliance cause he made a mistake (shared accounts) is a moron. That's my personal opinion.

For everyone bitching at FAnG cause we didn't kick our "cheaters", you don't kick your HC or command staff or friends, none of you would so stop being a hypocrit ...

We all know everyone is cheating in some way or another (or most of us did) like farming and account sharing. I think it's first of all silly to point at an alliance and call them cheaters cause an alliance has more members then the "cheaters" and you'd be hypocrite cause it happens aswell in your own alliance and probably even your own galaxy.

Then to the idiots jumping on the bandwagon and take a **** at me: I guess I give way too much opportunities but if you're not capable to do anything else then bitching, flaming at me or call me something just cause Scouse said it before, then you're no better then a cheater or anything.
Telling to me that I cannot discuss stuff without getting angry and such is silly aswell when you practically are looking for the flame. Alot pple just look for the flame, wait for the opportunity and when there is one start it so the hundred of brainless morons can jump on the bandwagon ...

I have talked to alot of pple on IRC, and yes even some admit that I'm a reasonable person, so maybe try being reasonable against me and others if you expect me to be aswell.

nway, for what it was worth ...

rgds Kj

[ParraCida]

It's quite common to 'dare' alliances into kicking their members as soon as they are even suspected of cheating.

It's something like: 'go on, prove that you are a man, cut of one of your hands!' Creating a 'win-win' situation for the people making these comments. Any good alliance would and always has punched through silly arguements like that.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by ParraCida
It's quite common to 'dare' alliances into kicking their members as soon as they are even suspected of cheating.

It's something like: 'go on, prove that you are a man, cut of one of your hands!' Creating a 'win-win' situation for the people making these comments. Any good alliance would and always has punched through silly arguements like that.

exactly, and so did FAnG

rgds Kj

[gzambo]

people need to get ovver it bigtime
christ even spinner stated somewhere (cant remember where) that anyone caught cheating in rd 9 that had a credit for rd 10 would be allowed use that credit for rd 10 <- bottom line if they pay us the money they can play, if the creators let cheaters stay within the game why not alliances

[ParraCida]

In fact, there have been known instances of people who were caught cheating (mostly galaxies) that have been given a 'warning' and not an immediate delete.

[Maddix]

Most alliances that I know/have known only kick members when their planets are deleted for cheating and tbh thats fair enough. With all the accusations that fly around these days if everyone kicked members accussed or suspected of cheating half the universe would be allianceless (or playing with Killmark)

[K-W]

The whole "kick cheaters" thing is pretty obviously silly. There are very few people in this game who have not at some point farmed a roid or two, or had someone login to their account even once.

The fact is that cheating is part of this game and asking anyone to try to enforce not cheating is silly. Alliances kick proved cheaters for pr, knowing that they and every alliance are made up of a majority of people who, at one time or another have cheated. Those who scream loudest about cheating I would bet have cheated in thier past, but most people dont even see small things at cheating. Getting someone to pull a fleet once or trading an account for no real benefit of anyone, or grabbing some roids off a guy whos quitting the game. These are all situations where cheating is not malicious and certainly not hard to symaphize with.

The community would be alot better off if we stopped pretending that cheating was some evil thing that only a few desperate players do, and reconized it for what it is.

[Salomo]

Originally posted by ParraCida
It's quite common to 'dare' alliances into kicking their members as soon as they are even suspected of cheating.

It's something like: 'go on, prove that you are a man, cut of one of your hands!' Creating a 'win-win' situation for the people making these comments. Any good alliance would and always has punched through silly arguements like that.

your metaphore of cheaters/hands stinks. I'd rather compare it to a "go ahead, arrest your terrorists" on an international level.

And again using the RL as example, nowadays no distinction is made between terrorists and those that harbour them anymore (not only by Bush but also in large parts by the anti-war axis), as long as no national interests intervene.

[Salomo]

Originally posted by K-W
The whole "kick cheaters" thing is pretty obviously silly. There are very few people in this game who have not at some point farmed a roid or two, or had someone login to their account even once.

The fact is that cheating is part of this game and asking anyone to try to enforce not cheating is silly. Alliances kick proved cheaters for pr, knowing that they and every alliance are made up of a majority of people who, at one time or another have cheated. Those who scream loudest about cheating I would bet have cheated in thier past, but most people dont even see small things at cheating. Getting someone to pull a fleet once or trading an account for no real benefit of anyone, or grabbing some roids off a guy whos quitting the game. These are all situations where cheating is not malicious and certainly not hard to symaphize with.

The community would be alot better off if we stopped pretending that cheating was some evil thing that only a few desperate players do, and reconized it for what it is.

And you're sick too. You make it look like a galaxy sharing each others passwords is the most normal thing there is. Saddly you may even be right to an extent in regards to top galaxies.

The comunity wouldn't be better off this way, all thats done this way is pseudo-legalising cheating. What would actually help the comunity in this context is to accept that there are different forms of cheating, that not all are equally destructive to the game, but to crack down hard on the worse forms of cheating and not making those also socially acceptable.

Originally posted by Salomo
And you're sick too. You make it look like a galaxy sharing each others passwords is the most normal thing there is. Saddly you may even be right to an extent in regards to top galaxies.

The comunity wouldn't be better off this way, all thats done this way is pseudo-legalising cheating. What would actually help the comunity in this context is to accept that there are different forms of cheating, that not all are equally destructive to the game, but to crack down hard on the worse forms of cheating and not making those also socially acceptable.

Far far too true but i very much doubt that will ever happen.

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by ParraCida
It's quite common to 'dare' alliances into kicking their members as soon as they are even suspected of cheating.

It's something like: 'go on, prove that you are a man, cut of one of your hands!' Creating a 'win-win' situation for the people making these comments. Any good alliance would and always has punched through silly arguements like that.

ParraCida in "Cutting Some Slack" Shocker!

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by Salomo
And you're sick too. You make it look like a galaxy sharing each others passwords is the most normal thing there is. Saddly you may even be right to an extent in regards to top galaxies.

The comunity wouldn't be better off this way, all thats done this way is pseudo-legalising cheating. What would actually help the comunity in this context is to accept that there are different forms of cheating, that not all are equally destructive to the game, but to crack down hard on the worse forms of cheating and not making those also socially acceptable.

Germ isnt sick, he just knows it happens across the universe. Whats sicker? The fact Germ knows the reality of it all or the fact its got to the stage where that reality is happening?

[Morden]

Originally posted by Zh|l
Germ isnt sick, he just knows it happens across the universe. Whats sicker? The fact Germ knows the reality of it all or the fact its got to the stage where that reality is happening?

its called "pay 2 play" :-)

then again tbh the game has always been full of people breaking the rules;

when it was free people just had a shed load of planets, when it costs money they do whatever they can to make sure they get there moneys worth.

the funniest thing is that most people who bitch about cheating have done more cheating in a round than the ones they're bitching at have done in there pa career.

[Bongdage]

scouse never chearts
hes clean as a whistel!~

[hAl]

I would not have expected anything else from certain people.
You might as well advertise your alliances as
"We do allow cheating as long as you do not get caught"

hAl

[K-W]

Originally posted by Salomo
And you're sick too. You make it look like a galaxy sharing each others passwords is the most normal thing there is. Saddly you may even be right to an extent in regards to top galaxies.

The comunity wouldn't be better off this way, all thats done this way is pseudo-legalising cheating. What would actually help the comunity in this context is to accept that there are different forms of cheating, that not all are equally destructive to the game, but to crack down hard on the worse forms of cheating and not making those also socially acceptable.

No, you are sick. Putting your fingers in your ears and singing la-la-la-la does not make things go away. The fact is that cheating is alot more common than people want to let on.

The more important fact about cheating is that it doesnt take some evil scumball to cheat. A generally good player, who plays in the spirit of the game will sometimes cheat a little. Its not like the devil comes and sits on their pc. Most people in this game have a fleet pulled once in a while, grab a roid off a friend once in a while, or have someone take over thier account when they cant play anymore. So lets stop acting like the world exploded whenever someone is proved to have done one of these things, its silly.

I fully agree with you that some cheating is alot worse than others and we need to recognize that.

As far as alliances enforcine cheating rules. It would be nice if the entire game just stopped cheating, but that will never happen. If 9/10 of the alliances reported thier own members or kicked them. The tenth wouldnt and the tenth would do better. Call me a pessamist, but I think its more than fair to say that people will always be willing to voilate social norms for advantages. SO what we create in pushing allainces to enforce the rules of the game is this silly PR game, where alliances try to act like they kick cheaters, meanwhile they cant actually kick cheaters because they know that so many people in all alliances cheat and thier not particularly willing to give up their chances to win at a game just to fit into an ethical code. This is after all a game.

The solution to cheating needs to come from the game crew being more effective in catching cheaters, or from the community at large putting pressure on its members.

[Scouse]

Titans didn't just kick cheaters for PR. We kicked people who admitted to cheating in our own private channels without ever being known outside of the alliance, or even by PA crew.

[Morden]

Originally posted by Scouse
Titans didn't just kick cheaters for PR. We kicked people who admitted to cheating in our own private channels without ever being known outside of the alliance, or even by PA crew.

didnt do very well in the command channels then did you?

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Morden
didnt do very well in the command channels then did you?

Perhaps if you rephrase that I might be able to make enough sense out of it to answer you.

[Morden]

Originally posted by Scouse
Perhaps if you rephrase that I might be able to make enough sense out of it to answer you.

you said you kicked members of saying they cheated in private chans.

so surely that applies to the command staff who cheated as well?

im not exactly perfect myself but at least i dont try the holier than thou attitude.

and if you didnt realise It was originally a joke

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Scouse
Perhaps if you rephrase that I might be able to make enough sense out of it to answer you.

He's insinuating that the titans HC cheated their asses off. There's two possible answers, one is that he's an idiot and the other is well played for not getting caught.

[Kjeldoran]

mmm, why do some pple so persistently try to claim their HC/members or alliance NEVER cheated? Like Germania said, cheating (account sharing or farming) ain't that horrible as most of you pple are trying to make it look like. It's a game, it's like if you take money from the bank while playing Monoply or putting an extra unit on the map while playing Risk when nobody was lookin etc ....

Give it some slack, everyone around you does it, you'll find it in any alliance or galaxy (mind that not ALL players do, but let's state ALOT do). Doesn't mean it's good either, never said that, but kicking a person from your alliance cause he did share an account? Killing a possible friendship for it? risking to boot a more then decent asset for your alliance or galaxy? I'm sure none of you would.

I can fairly tell that no member will be kicked from my alliance(if I would have my own atm) just cause he gave his login details to someone else. And I'm sure 90% of ALL HC's feel the same way.

Nway, the meaning of this thread was to explain my opinion on certain issues, cause lately everyone seems to get me wrong etc ...
But yet again, this thread turned into a classic duel between the 2 sides. That was never the intention of this thread but after bout 5 replies ...

ahh well

rgds Kj

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Morden
and if you didnt realise It was originally a joke

Sorry Morden, didn't realise.

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
He's insinuating that the titans HC cheated their asses off. There's two possible answers, one is that he's an idiot and the other is well played for not getting caught.

Oooo, yay. Do I get to guess which?

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
everyone around you does it

The last time I gave out my account details to someone else was round 2, my PA playing brother didn't even have them. Although over the last 6 rounds he probably has logged into my account once or twice via my pc (which is in my room), whilst I've been too tried to get out of bed. I also took over an account in round 3, a month after I initially quit my first planet. Nothing since.

A lot of people do account share, but not everyone.

[dezaster]

kj, you suck etc

[Storebo]

Originally posted by ParraCida
It's quite common to 'dare' alliances into kicking their members as soon as they are even suspected of cheating.

It's something like: 'go on, prove that you are a man, cut of one of your hands!' Creating a 'win-win' situation for the people making these comments. Any good alliance would and always has punched through silly arguements like that.

Matthew 5:30 - And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by dezaster
kj, you suck etc

mmm, did I yell ****? don't think so ...

so why are you here then?

rgds Kj

[ArcChas]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
It's a game, it's like if you take money from the bank while playing Monoply or putting an extra unit on the map while playing Risk when nobody was lookin etc ....

Both of which are totally unacceptable.

Regards,

Chas.

[Eol]

Originally posted by ArcChas
Both of which are totally unacceptable.

Regards,

Chas.

Especially the Monopoly example. Stealing from the bank. fs. How low :-P

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by ArcChas
Both of which are totally unacceptable.

Regards,

Chas.

ya and??? does that mean the person is scum? does that mean you need to send Bush up his ass to act like a monkeh?

becides, using dirty tactics (yes legal ones) to win a round isn't all that either, now is it?

rgds Kj

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Eol
Especially the Monopoly example. Stealing from the bank. fs. How low :-P

the hint is to sit near the bank, AND making sure that the bills worth the most are on your side. Or you can act like you pay but like take twice asmuch from the bank and claim you gave too much

rgds Kj

[ArcChas]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
ya and??? does that mean the person is scum?

Yes.

It also means that the person is one who I would not permit to be associated with me.

does that mean you need to send Bush up his ass to act like a monkeh?

No - but banishment from an alliance would be appropriate.

becides, using dirty tactics (yes legal ones) to win a round isn't all that either, now is it?

Legal tactics, however "dirty", are a completely different matter.

Regards,

Chas.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by ArcChas
Yes.

It also means that the person is one who I would not permit to be associated with me.


No - but banishment from an alliance would be appropriate.

hahahaha, good one.

so you don't wanna talk to someone who shared an account of farmed someone? Well gl then, cause you'll have a HARD time finding one.

Even our holy Titans HC, Scouse, admits he has given his login to dunno who in r2, so I better hope you haven't spoken to the "scumbag" since then.

rofl, really good one ...

rgds Kj

[ArcChas]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
hahahaha, good one.

so you don't wanna talk to someone who shared an account of farmed someone? Well gl then, cause you'll have a HARD time finding one.

Please try to keep up. You were talking about stealing money from the bank at Monolopy and stealing units at Risk. Farming was a perfectly legal tactic in PA until recently (ship-farming was even legal last round). Account sharing is a different matter.

Even our holy Titans HC, Scouse, admits he has given his login to dunno who in r2, so I better hope you haven't spoken to the "scumbag" since then.

I'm quite sure that I've spoken to quite a few scumbags in my time - your point?

rofl, really good one ...

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Eol
Especially the Monopoly example. Stealing from the bank. fs. How low :-P

And when it's so much easier to sneak in an extra house or two....!

[Teh_Necro]

Whatever you say Kj, at the end of the day, ur still an uber **** innit^_^

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
Whatever you say Kj, at the end of the day, ur still an uber **** innit^_^

?

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
It's a game, it's like if you take money from the bank while playing Monoply or putting an extra unit on the map while playing Risk when nobody was lookin etc ....

The only ones in my familiy who plays Monoply like that, is the kids... who are like 10 years old...

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
The only ones in my familiy who plays Monoply like that, is the kids... who are like 10 years old...

I don't think I played monopoly after I was 12 years nway, can't really remember but I never really liked that game ...

[AliasX]

It's amazing how 1/2 you fukwits can go off topic.

[TheBull]

I don't care if you keep them in your alliance, but you should make sure their planet(s) is/are closed.
TheBull

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by AliasX
It's amazing how 1/2 you fukwits can go off topic.

heh, exactly...

lo aliasX btw, m8y

rgds Kj