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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 12:16   #1
Le Mauvais Moine
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Apologies to Eclipse

After having carefully read your stringent argumentation on the various threads commenting on the WE-ET split and Elysiums decision to try out a stand alone situation till the end of the round, you have finally convinced me that i did wrong. I clearly see now:

1) wp should have been bashed by Elysium/Eclipse/ToT/Rah. It would have clearly been the only honourable thing to do for Elysium. As you pointed out it's been clearly wp who's been in the wrong, you've been right.

2) In the name of a fair game and anti cheating, I should have launched on 48:4 and Rabba. Z|hl has conclusively explained that him being flaked by smaller planets and Eclipse planets generally being defended by gazillions of 1 to 2 million planets does *not* suggest cheating at all. It just shows the level of organisation and teamwork within Eclipse where every planet plays its part.

3) I now must reluctantly admit that Elysium's decision to go solo is nothing but a wicked attempt to preserve some roids and to explain defeat. This decision alone is a direct assault on Eclipse's efforts to play a fair and honourable round and deserves to be punished.

4) Thus, immediate defection from Elysium to whomever would have been due. I am sorry i did not see that by the time.

Please, accept my humble apologies !
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 12:21   #2
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took long enough to come to your senses.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 12:24   #3
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I really don't see how anyone can consider Ely going alone for the rest of the round the equivalent of exiting the war, since I highly doubt Eclipse and ToT are going to let anyone but themselves hold the top spot, or even have a show for it.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 13:14   #4
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i am ashamed of elysium can i get a vouch to fur.. eclipse please.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 13:43   #5
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Don't you have anything better or useful to do than ranting about Eclipse all day long?
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 13:52   #6
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What else would you want me to do if i don't have any shippies left to launch at you ?
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 14:12   #7
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Elysium leaving the sinking ship.. When Elysium took WP's side.. everyone belived that side would win. Even many on tot/eclipse side. But organisation and skill seems to have won over numbers, and ToT/Eclipse got the upper hand. And now Elysium is leaving their friends..

Shouldn't the honour system that kept u with WP in start of the war still make a difference?
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 14:24   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storebo
Elysium leaving the sinking ship.. When Elysium took WP's side.. everyone belived that side would win. Even many on tot/eclipse side. But organisation and skill seems to have won over numbers, and ToT/Eclipse got the upper hand. And now Elysium is leaving their friends..

Shouldn't the honour system that kept u with WP in start of the war still make a difference?
Well we still attack Eclipse and ToT, but due to not being as leet, skilled and organized as you guys, i think it is worthwhile trying to launch independently. A joint effort would have overemployed our organizational abilities.

As for the honour system: We are still learning from Eclipse, we stand corrected for the first decision we made during the WE-ET split. Now, did we go wrong again ?
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 14:36   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by raffe
Don't you have anything better or useful to do than ranting about Eclipse all day long?
I think this is more fun
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 14:58   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
A joint effort would have overemployed our organizational abilities.
lol, I think ely's a very long way off from overemploying their organizational abilities.
(if u were talking bout ely that is)
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 15:22   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Whis
lol, I think ely's a very long way off from overemploying their organizational abilities.
(if u were talking bout ely that is)
Naah, we're a bunch of unskilled newbs who tried to outnumber the other side. But finally we had to admit that quality > quantity.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 15:27   #12
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Wouldn't go that far either.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 15:29   #13
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I would.

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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 16:58   #14
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Re: Apologies to Eclipse

Quote:
Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine

2) In the name of a fair game and anti cheating
Referring to Wp or Ecl?
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 16:59   #15
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I will not respond to your silly straw-man.

Eclipse really didnt expect ely to do anything different than what they did. We knew full well that most of ely command wanted to stay loyal to WP.

The simple fact is, that for better or for worse, ely broke their agreements with us and turned hostile and used a pretty poor excuse trying to explain how it was justified. The simple fact is that it wasnt justified. Eclipse was perfectly loyal to elysium.

Elysium made thier decision based on loyalties to wp and perhaps a more balanced round. We dont begrudge them that, and we have thouroughly enjoyed facing them in combat.

So stop acting like eclipse is crying because we didnt get ely to help us bash wp. We neither wanted that, nor expected that. We orgiginally wanted a 1 v 1 war, that of course was unlikely, and the result was basically what we expected to happen. We respect elysims decisions, we simply are insulted when they tried to suger coat it as something other than it was.


So stfu. Stop bringing this up again, we certainly arent. Eclipse isnt who you want us to be. Grow up and learn to play the game without evil monsters to rail against.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 17:29   #16
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Based on reactions from Eclipse people at the time it sure seemed like Eclipse wanted Ely to stay out of the fight (which was impossible given circumstances, they either had to side with Ecl or WP). Maybe Eclipse overestimated WP and/or Ely or something at the time?
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 17:38   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Whis
Based on reactions from Eclipse people at the time it sure seemed like Eclipse wanted Ely to stay out of the fight (which was impossible given circumstances, they either had to side with Ecl or WP). Maybe Eclipse overestimated WP and/or Ely or something at the time?
Probably to some extent. Certain people in ecl werent optimistic about facing their numbers.

Some people overeacted. And admitted so afterwords. Since then the issue has been brought up by outsiders. Not eclipse members. We would have preferred and ecl v wp only war for the simple reason that we valued ely as allies. The way things turned out has been a good fight. And I think the only real negative feelings left are from those who hoped ely and ecl would have gotten along, not from anyone who wishes they had joined in bashing wp. I dont know anyone who wishes that.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 17:38   #18
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?

Germ, why taking everything so seriously ?

The thread was intended as fun - sure there's been some irony/mockery included when picking up some argumentation lines from your posters on the forums.

You know, though, what is somehow annoying is that whenever there's a thread which could remotely be associated to Eclipse's stance in PA a couple of you guys pop up arguing your position over and over explaining why you are perfectly leet accompanied by some general insults.

Look what has become out of the "Ely going solo" thread.

You tell me to stfu - but why do you guys don't let go from time to time and also let other people express their opinions ?
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 17:43   #19
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Re: ?

Quote:
Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
Germ, why taking everything so seriously ?

The thread was intended as fun - sure there's been some irony/mockery included when picking up some argumentation lines from your posters on the forums.

You know, though, what is somehow annoying is that whenever there's a thread which could remotely be associated to Eclipse's stance in PA a couple of you guys pop up arguing your position over and over explaining why you are perfectly leet accompanied by some general insults.

Look what has become out of the "Ely going solo" thread.

You tell me to stfu - but why do you guys don't let go from time to time and also let other people express their opinions ?
THe things you state as a joke are used as serious propaganda tools by people. "Im only posting for fun, you guys are taking this seriously" is a rather pitiful defence. If you want to post for fun go to GD and post about your day. Dont set up some double standard where you get to post whatever you want and its fun and if I post im taking it to seriously.

The ely thread has been hijacked by personal vendettas between individuals, and is not really relating to alliances at all at this point.

How am I not letting you express your opinion? You post, I respond. You are the one suggesting that I shouldnt express my opinion. I never made that request of you.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 17:43   #20
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Re: ?

Quote:
Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
The thread was intended as fun
You sure know how to have a good time
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 17:54   #21
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Re: Re: ?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
You sure know how to have a good time
..i think Hicks would be lost without that one >>>> <<<<

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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 17:57   #22
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Re: Re: ?

Quote:
Originally posted by K-W
How am I not letting you express your opinion? You post, I respond. You are the one suggesting that I shouldnt express my opinion. I never made that request of you.
Well being called a silly straw man and told to stfu discourages me from expressing my opinion. I even understand that as a quite direct request to not express my opinion.

I wasn't intending to stop you guys from posting - i just wanted to give you a hint that less is more sometimes.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 18:02   #23
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Are you on crack?
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 18:04   #24
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If the war is already won, and Elysiums round is over, then making way for the new round, by leaving all block ties, is surley a good course of action?

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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 18:10   #25
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Re: Re: ?

Quote:
Originally posted by K-W
THe things you state as a joke are used as serious propaganda tools by people. "Im only posting for fun, you guys are taking this seriously" is a rather pitiful defence. If you want to post for fun go to GD and post about your day. Dont set up some double standard where you get to post whatever you want and its fun and if I post im taking it to seriously.
Hmm, i am not sure how, when my initial post is taken as fun and yours as serious, i would set up a double standard. I think there's no way your statements can be classified as "fun". (Unless your notion of fun includes insulting people you don't know).

"Maybe" i went a bit too far, maybe a bit too much sarcasm in my posts, but *sure* you have overreacted.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 18:57   #26
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Re: Re: Re: ?

Quote:
Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
Well being called a silly straw man and told to stfu discourages me from expressing my opinion. I even understand that as a quite direct request to not express my opinion.

I wasn't intending to stop you guys from posting - i just wanted to give you a hint that less is more sometimes.
You misunderstand.

Straw man is a term used in arguments to describe creating a false impression of your opponants argument that you can easily argue against.

I dont really think im overeacting. Posting on a forum is hardly that big a reaction. You posted, i responded, welcome to AD. Perhaps you need to calm down.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 19:15   #27
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Re: Re: Re: Re: ?

Quote:
Originally posted by K-W
I dont really think im overeacting. Posting on a forum is hardly that big a reaction. You posted, i responded, welcome to AD. Perhaps you need to calm down.
k, seems settled to me. Thanks for the welcome anyways. Coming back to the topic: You accept my apologies ?
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 19:48   #28
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Friederich -

No point arguing with K-W...he takes everything too seriously
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 19:51   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hardin
Friederich -

No point arguing with K-W...he takes everything too seriously
Are you EVER on IRC?

You damn straw man.
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 19:57   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hardin
Friederich -

No point arguing with K-W...he takes everything too seriously
Germ warfare, always
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 20:02   #31
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Unfortunately my work techies eventually discovered my irc and told me wot a norty boy I was before uninstalling it and giving me a formal warning!

Its one of the reasons why for the last few weeks I have had to spend a large percentage of my time at work (i.e its 8pm here now and I have been at my desk since 8am this morning )

All has limited my irc a bit...

I hate techies and their phobia of irc...

Also the evhul bash0ring, that evhul Eclipse/Fury and its NARWEET uberblock mega alliance poodles (just for u K-W ), inflicted and kept my score below 1 mill for the first four weeks of the round has probably also affected my motivation slightly...altho my gal did manage to creep back into the Top250 this week \0/

Anyway shud be on a bit more over the weekend...so maybe I will c u
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 20:16   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hardin
Anyway shud be on a bit more over the weekend...so maybe I will c u
You could use one of those handy cgi irc thingies! Make Ado set you one up, he seems more active these days

Speak to you this weekend then, on either PA net or Titans net.


And Friedrich: I'll accept your apology on behalf of the forces of darkness. Happy?
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Unread 25 Apr 2003, 20:23   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ahriman
And Friedrich: I'll accept your apology on behalf of the forces of darkness. Happy?
Hehe, yeah.

Hardin: Come idling a bit in our r5 attack channel when you have some time.
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Unread 27 Apr 2003, 01:11   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by K-W
Eclipse really didnt expect ely to do anything different than what they did. We knew full well that most of ely command wanted to stay loyal to WP.
I find that hugely hard to believe after the actions of certain members of your command on these boards, moments after Ely announced their decision. You expected Ely to stay neutral, you were surprised when they didn't.



Quote:
The simple fact is, that for better or for worse, ely broke their agreements with us and turned hostile and used a pretty poor excuse trying to explain how it was justified. The simple fact is that it wasnt justified. Eclipse was perfectly loyal to elysium.
You're so completely biased. They had every reason in the world to do what they did. You're stupid if you think differently. That's like Germany attacking England and expecting the USA to stay neutral.

Quote:
We neither wanted that, nor expected that. We orgiginally wanted a 1 v 1 war, that of course was unlikely, and the result was basically what we expected to happen.
Sure. Go on, say it, you dull, dull person. "How do you know more than ME about MY alliance?".
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Unread 27 Apr 2003, 23:26   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
I find that hugely hard to believe after the actions of certain members of your command on these boards, moments after Ely announced their decision. You expected Ely to stay neutral, you were surprised when they didn't.

Well I have HC forum access in eclipse. So guess who knows better. Some in eclipse hc did still have some faith that ely would be loyal to us, more of a personal issue than anything. And zhil just went overboard over the whole loyalty thing. Prolly because ely were always such critics when other alliances made similar moves.

Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse

You're so completely biased. They had every reason in the world to do what they did. You're stupid if you think differently. That's like Germany attacking England and expecting the USA to stay neutral.
What in the hell are you talking about. Of course they did. They did it didnt they. Thier reasons were fine for them. But from a loyalty standpoint, one that ely has pushed for a long time, they didnt have reason to break the agreement. Eclipse was perfectly loyal to them. I agree with you. I think they made the right decision to a large extent. It was a decision similar to many allainces have made in the past. 2 allies fight, youve got to pick one. But those alliances in the past have been cricizized for dropping an ally when that ally was loyal, that is what ely did. That is all i am pointing out. Absolute loyalty is not always possible.
Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse

Sure. Go on, say it, you dull, dull person. "How do you know more than ME about MY alliance?".
Well provide me with an answer and I will stop saying it. Its like you telling me what I had for breakfast.
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Unread 27 Apr 2003, 23:44   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
You're so completely biased. They had every reason in the world to do what they did. You're stupid if you think differently. That's like Germany attacking England and expecting the USA to stay neutral.
They did.

Twice.
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Unread 27 Apr 2003, 23:45   #37
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Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
They did.

Twice.
You're an idiot.
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Unread 28 Apr 2003, 15:30   #38
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Originally posted by Rumad
You really are quite naive of alliance politics aren't you ? Now I see why FAnG got bashed every round.
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Unread 28 Apr 2003, 15:49   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
I'm naive yet you canfeel betrayed about elysium.

However this comment really does show how clueless you are.

round 7 I actually didn't want to ally with Fury whatsoever, but bowed to the HC and members wishes. Round 8 I only came back for the last month or so, but we were holding our own even after lockhead decided to leave.

I do like your idea to try and incite me though and try and distract from the actual post and its points. One day you may even grow up hicks, but i doubt it.

Here is a clue for you:

Read a post, find something you disagree with, then reply with arguments against. Thats what you call debating.
What did you do when you came back in Round 8 ? Told ToT to **** off when you were drunk ? Political master stroke that one wasn't it Rumad ? You doomed your crap little battle group in Round6 and you ruined what was left of FAnG, have you actually ever accomplished anything other than bitter AD postings about evil Fury and Eclipse ruining your life ?

In my eyes Elysium made the wrong call, many others feel the same way especially after what we were told by their HC (Which is what pissed us off the most). Considering the time when you could have any impact on politics or even had the contacts to stay informed about them are long gone I suggest you stop making an ass out of yourself.

Here is a clue for you:
DIET.
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Unread 28 Apr 2003, 17:59   #40
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RaH? and what a asskisser... u saw eylisias post and posted here without knowing anything. go home!
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Unread 28 Apr 2003, 19:08   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
Actually you are wrong about teh ToT split. I was quite ill around the time that the split occured so i pretty much guarantee alcohol was teh last thing on my mind.

You have no clue about my history for the rest of it so you really shouldn't comment at all. Especially when it is completely incorrect.

As for my posts - i have no grudges or bones to bear, so any argumenst to the contrary makes you look rather pathtic imo.

Eclipse made a choice between two allies from being forced into a position by Eclipse. You have no right to complain when you forced the situation.

As for the diet I have lost 3 stones since jan

I will continue as i want to lose more. You might think your funny, your not, you might think your right, but your not.

Your not funny, your not clever and your definitely not big

So hicks anymore insults and bad remarks or are you actually capable of debating?

You not answered the initial post at all..
That's odd as ToT say quite the opposite, who to believe a fat muppet with no relevance to the game or an alliance who I've had the pleasure of doing business with since Round 4.

But it's true isn't it Rumad ? You destroyed what was left of FAnG after your masterful return, you destroyed any reputation and credit FAnG had with your awful PR posts in Round 7 and your attempted defection in Round 6 killed that battle group you were so proud of.

Eclipse didn't force the situation, the situation was forced by Wolfpack who continued to raid both Eclipse and Elysium planets without permission, we weren't simply going to sit back and let them roid us to the point we couldn't defend ourselves, we weren't going to sit back and let Wolfpack try and isolate us from our allies by refusing to let us link IRC servers with the rest of WEET. We assumed we'd be able to count on the support of Elysium since we'd done everything they'd asked us to do (Including throw people we considered friends at a personal level to the wolves) and at least some of their HC were making positive noises about being allied for R10, I guess we over estimated our friendship with Elysium and under estimated just how manipulative Wolfpack were (The log incident).

Most people find me baiting you quite comical especially as you always bite. I guess with all the dieting you need something to bite on right fatty ?
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Unread 28 Apr 2003, 20:05   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
I did call marduk a name, but i was hardly drunk and was related to a very arrogant exchange.

You still know less than nothing so keep digging and you still wont get anywhere. Actually you are wrong and right with the FAnG comment, because again your doing it for the wrong ends. FanG stayed together till the end of teh orund. FAnG was a home for whoever wanted it. Lockhead demanded at this point that we disband and the best join Fury. I didn't want that nor did hinhc, but this isn't the place to be airing dirty laundry. However I wanted to make sure that the members had a home till the ned of the orund and not disband halfway through. FAnG was always more than a few individuals it was a home.

It may not have been round 7 FAnG, but it was still OUR home.

I Left the hc and FAnG because i felt I would never be able to avoid being asked my opion or being asked to change things. I left because i was physically up to being a HC and putting the hours in needed. To my knowledge FAnG still around and Irvine is doing a superb job.

Again you talk about things which you have no clue, just piecemeal information and a petty wish to try and rile me or embarass me, neither of which you are doing and tbh i just think you look pathetic.

REgardless of what made Eclipse take the action tehy decided upon it was Eclipses choice to choose that action. Your reasons for doing it are neither here nor there, but ely had to take a side, it just wasn't yours. You still have no reason to accuse them of traitors or backstabbers. Get over your ego the universe doesn't revolve around you and eclipse.

Whatever your reasons for posting your still a pathetic little dweeb with no life. As for what I need to bite into i guess at least i know i look ok - how will you improve your personality hicks? They found a cure yet?
You don't have to justify every little action to me Rumad, unless you really are sensitive about it. That was your contribution ? Slating the ToT leader, the leader of your only real ally, wow high-level diplomacy at it's best, what a political master stroke that was, thank God your not in any position of power anymore. Are you having trouble with what you did to FAnG ? Admit it you ran a successful alliance into the ground with your lame attempts to keep it going, you even destroyed their reputation with your AD posting, you turned it into a failure just like everything else you've ever done in Planetarion. You can't even succeed on the forums with your little attempt at being Scouse and the lads pre Round 8 for Christ’s sake.

You even answer your own question in your post. Elysium had to take a side, it wasn't ours (Supposedly their closest allies) and in my opinion that amounts to betrayal, that there is why we feel betrayed, just like when Legion left Elysium "high and dry" in Round 5 and when Fury did the same to FAnG in Round 7. We all know why the vote went the way it did and frankly Elysium HC need a slapping for believing it.

I'm a pathetic dweeb ? AT LEAST I'M NOT ON THE SLIM FAST PLAN.
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Unread 28 Apr 2003, 21:12   #43
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oi, stop the madness!

thisis out of topic posting, plz pm eachother and keep bitching there. TA
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Unread 28 Apr 2003, 21:24   #44
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No one wants to listern to some little cry baby bitch about Eclipse taking his asteroids, Rumad and I fighting is far more entertaining.
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Unread 28 Apr 2003, 21:45   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
Then on top of that you assumed that Ely would sit idlely by as Eclipse stole 000's of roids knocking ely out of the running for the top places.
Since when is greed of rank a valid reason to drop an ally? Isnt that something you hated about Fury, and now you are arguing that ely was justified by it? Wow rumad, its nice when you just come out and state that you are simply biased.
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Unread 28 Apr 2003, 22:17   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
You're an idiot.
Well, strictly speaking it was only 'declared war on' twice, England itself was only attacked in the one WW.

But I don't see that this is grounds to call me an idiot!
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Unread 29 Apr 2003, 07:53   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
I would as the same to you about starting the war with wp.

I have heard the allegations about hitting allied targets. Didnt that happen when you were allied to legion? heh. Ironic you should talk about greed isnt it germania.

There are violations of some type in all relationships. And there are varying positions to do things about them. Bringing up legion like that shows you as either a moron who knows nothing about this game, or just a troll. Either way explaining to you the complex workings of allaince relations serves no purpose. Now stop changing the subject.

It isnt ironic because IM NOT YOU. I never criticized anyone for acting because of rank, so THERE IS NO IRONY.

Now stop changing the subject and answer the question.

Why is it justified for ely to do something that you have criticized other alliances for doing?
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Unread 29 Apr 2003, 09:43   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
The quesion has been answered by my previous round actions.

My point germania is that you seem to be putting some self righteous belief as to why you started the war. The fact was it was about roids and hence greed. You can dress it up how you want, but simply your actions this round have been dictated by greed.

Your right - I hated it when we dropped ely. I felt bad because of the two excellent rounds we had spent with them and yes I disliked the actions taken in that round. However that doesnt cloud my judgement for you actions this round.

In such a small universe alliances need to take accountability for the actions they take. This includes realising that tactics adopted by your alliance this round have destroyed the round and probably done more harm to the player base than that of previous rounds.

I know you are gonna start waffling about game mechanics, but this is so not related to the game mechanics - this is about one samll group who wil do anything to win. Quite sad really.
Rumad, the day you can claim you never launched an astropod you can criticize people for wanting roids. I know you cant. I know you liked getting roids as much as anyone else. I know you hated losing them as much as anyone else.

The entire point of this game, start to finish, is to gather roids. its why we have allainces, to keep our roids. ITs why people wake up in the middle of the night and sit on irc waiting. Because we try to get more roids, and we try to keep the ones we have. Every action in pa, barring those done by people who have lost alll thier roids and have given up, is done in some way shape or form to get or keep roids. So stop bringing it up as if getting roids is some scandel in PA.

Saying that the WP war was about them not honering thier agreement is not dressing anything up. Every political move ever made in PA is the same amount about roids. That doesnt erase or discount the fact that Ecl had 3 allies. 2 of which worked within their agreements, one of which constantly abused thier agreements. You cannot say that just because the end goal of this game is growth, that we did not declare war on wp because of thier actions.

What tactics? Fighting, roiding... how have eclipses tactics been any different than WP, ToT, ELy, or any of the nar allainces. They have not. There are no special tactics. Nor has this been a bad round. There has been relatively little stagnation this round.

One small group who will do anything to win? WTF are you talking about. When you say things like that you clearly show that you are still obsessed with the dellusion of Fury you have. You cant support that. Eclipse has not done anything to win. It has not done anything particularly different than anyone else.

I dont have to waffle on anything. This is a war game. As a round progresses, roids get accumulated by a gradually smaller percentage of the player base. That is the game. Blaming eclipse for that is really really stupid rumad.
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Unread 29 Apr 2003, 14:47   #49
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Jesus Christ Germ. Save these threads, re-read them in 10 years. You'll be damn well embarrassed.


Every single thread doesn't need to be spoilt by you.
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Unread 29 Apr 2003, 21:06   #50
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Ebarassed? Heh, yah im sure. "Look ten years ago I argued in my spare time with a bunch of morons over an online game. Oh no, I will go cry in the corner"

Scouse, you spoil threads for me. Im not complaining. If you dont want to discuss alliance stuff, then go the hell away.
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