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Unread 27 Mar 2003, 23:29   #1
AlbinoSquirrel
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Something for for VOM to think about.

I've seen enough posts from VOM members/supporters whining, bitching, and complaining about how unfair and awful the WEET + NAR overkill is. About how cowardly they are, about how evil/stupid/demonic/etc etc they are.

It's time for you to realize a couple of things.

1. The obvious. VOM was the first MAJOR block to form. Sure, WP/Ely would probably be together, but (no offense to them), that's not a universe-wide threat. VOM was a threat, pure and simple, easily powerful enough to take the top spots unless an organized opposition arose. Hence, it did.

2. The less obvious. VOM shot themselves in the foot with their pure galaxy tactics. Sure, it's nice in some ways, but it counts on the enemy being honorable (no offense to WEET+NAR). Japanese samurai would go out to challenge the Mongols to single combat. They'd stand and recite their lineage, all their exploits, all their skills, and challenge the Mongols. The Mongols would promptly feather him with arrows. The samurai was very honorable and very dead. Welcome to the real world.

3. The blatantly overlooked. VOM didn't attempt to make a single friend this round and needlessly antagonized other alliances. Then you've got the past - RaH wanted a crack at Virus. And of course, Eclipse with their Fury heritage wanted a crack at Olympians with their Titans/LDK heritage. It doesn't take much to realize that the movers and shakers within the WEET and the NAR blocks both had common cause to go after VOM. Then you've got the posts on here by VOM, which have ranged from inane to arrogant to whining. Again, no points scored there. You're getting attacked because PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE DON'T LIKE YOU.

You managed to completely stack the deck against yourselves from the get-go, then collapsed in the shortest amount of time of any block in PA history. Take your defeat with a shred of dignity, and learn something out of it: such as, PA isn't an honorable, fair game, and you were idiotic enough to try and treat it as one. There's a lesson for you.
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Unread 27 Mar 2003, 23:32   #2
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Unread 27 Mar 2003, 23:37   #3
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Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel

2. The less obvious. VOM shot themselves in the foot with their pure galaxy tactics. Sure, it's nice in some ways, but it counts on the enemy being honorable (no offense to WEET+NAR). Japanese samurai would go out to challenge the Mongols to single combat. They'd stand and recite their lineage, all their exploits, all their skills, and challenge the Mongols. The Mongols would promptly feather him with arrows. The samurai was very honorable and very dead. Welcome to the real world.
Not everyone has 7 allies to flack their galaxies with.
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Unread 27 Mar 2003, 23:44   #4
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Unread 27 Mar 2003, 23:49   #5
General1
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Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
Not everyone has 7 allies to flack their galaxies with.
In rd6 no1 complained about fos
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:15   #6
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Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by General1
In rd6 no1 complained about fos
FoS were no threat to anyone
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:16   #7
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Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by General1
In rd6 no1 complained about fos
Um, yes they did?

I can remember huge debates scaling the numbers of FoS/XeTa etc.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:23   #8
laputa
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Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
Japanese samurai would go out to challenge the Mongols to single combat. They'd stand and recite their lineage, all their exploits, all their skills, and challenge the Mongols. The Mongols would promptly feather him with arrows. The samurai was very honorable and very dead. Welcome to the real world.
But in the end the Japanese won
Ironically with the help of a Deus ex Machina.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:24   #9
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
Um, yes they did?

I can remember huge debates scaling the numbers of FoS/XeTa etc.
Yup, I remember them too. And the later debates about FLTV/FoS after XeTa got splattered.

Same old, same old.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:32   #10
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Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by laputa
But in the end the Japanese won
I dont remember flvt winning r6 :-/
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:34   #11
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the numbers were alot but weet nar had really nothing or little to do with the collapse of vom it was allies within vom who wanted to do their own thing and it in a sense slowed attacks down by 2 days and by that time those same peeps did their own attack thing thus fubar'ing any block organized attack.

vom shot themselves in the foot only by who was chosen as an ally not by much of anything else.

Nar versus Weet versus Vom would have been much nicer of a war than the latter. Make no mistake the other blocks who got together were scared to death of vom otherwise there was no point of their massive block. Defeat come to noone till ticks stop.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:38   #12
laputa
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Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE DON'T LIKE YOU.
Nah, I don't think so. By now every player has friends in every alliance (which was not the case in earlier rounds). Usually people don't hate alliances where their friends are in.
Additionally VoM has no 'evil' past like Furgion had in rd 6.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:38   #13
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:39   #14
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Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel


1. The obvious. VOM was the first MAJOR block to form. Sure, WP/Ely would probably be together, but (no offense to them), that's not a universe-wide threat. VOM was a threat, pure and simple, easily powerful enough to take the top spots unless an organized opposition arose. Hence, it did.
It has been said before and I will say it again as obviously u still don't understand!

VOM was initially just three alliances

Virus
Olympians
Madcows

You felt the need to nap half the universe and create excessive NARWEET against these three?

Quote:
2. The less obvious. VOM shot themselves in the foot with their pure galaxy tactics. Sure, it's nice in some ways, but it counts on the enemy being honorable (no offense to WEET+NAR). Japanese samurai would go out to challenge the Mongols to single combat. They'd stand and recite their lineage, all their exploits, all their skills, and challenge the Mongols. The Mongols would promptly feather him with arrows. The samurai was very honorable and very dead. Welcome to the real world.
Right contradictory arguement...above you say we were big danger in universe...Now you say we shot ourselves in the foot? Which is it?

Personally I was not a fan of the priv gal policy as it divided me from many friends and galaxies which could have been friendly to VOM but instead ended up hostile because of this. I argued with HC when I heard of this but as I am only a pe0n what can u do!

However if you thought this was such a big mistake why form excessive NARWEET?

Quote:
3. The blatantly overlooked. VOM didn't attempt to make a single friend this round and needlessly antagonized other alliances. Then you've got the past - RaH wanted a crack at Virus. And of course, Eclipse with their Fury heritage wanted a crack at Olympians with their Titans/LDK heritage. It doesn't take much to realize that the movers and shakers within the WEET and the NAR blocks both had common cause to go after VOM. Then you've got the posts on here by VOM, which have ranged from inane to arrogant to whining. Again, no points scored there. You're getting attacked because PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE DON'T LIKE YOU.
As has been pointed out before (but obviously not taken in by you), the HC of VOM decided they didn't want to win the round by sitting on fences all round and bravely took a decision (maybe misguided?) to stand on their own two feet...unlike WEET.

Once again if we had no friends why did you feel the need to create excessive NARWEET?

The fact is all this has happened...we are now on the point of stagnation...most of what you classify as 'whining' is actually reasoned arguement for why NARWEET is killing this round...

Can you really justify any good reason for the continued existence of NARWEET? I haven't seen one good reason why NARWEET shud continue...even NARWEET members are 'whining' as you put it that the round is already becoming boring for them...
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:42   #15
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Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by xtothez
I dont remember flvt winning r6 :-/
AS was talking about Samurai - known for their honorable way to fight.
Hardly a description for FLTV
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 00:45   #16
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Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardin

...most of what you classify as 'whining' is actually reasoned arguement for why NARWEET is killing this round...
gotta disagree. i am afraid to say that most of what he classifies as whining is whining
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 03:06   #17
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No to be honest, NaR/WEET should of joined vom in pure gal tactics, as lets face it would of lead to a far more fluidic round, for all.

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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 03:08   #18
AlbinoSquirrel
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Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardin
It has been said before and I will say it again as obviously u still don't understand!

VOM was initially just three alliances

Virus
Olympians
Madcows

You felt the need to nap half the universe and create excessive NARWEET against these three?
WEET and NAR were formed separately, not as one unit. Get that into your thick skull.


Quote:
Right contradictory arguement...above you say we were big danger in universe...Now you say we shot ourselves in the foot? Which is it?

Personally I was not a fan of the priv gal policy as it divided me from many friends and galaxies which could have been friendly to VOM but instead ended up hostile because of this. I argued with HC when I heard of this but as I am only a pe0n what can u do!

However if you thought this was such a big mistake why form excessive NARWEET?
First, I'm not playing this round, so addressing me as any alliance rep is wrong. Now, I said you were threatening. I didn't say it would WORK. There's a world of difference there.

And again, NAR + WEET were formed separately, and for different reasons, both decided that attacking VOM was the way to go.

Quote:
As has been pointed out before (but obviously not taken in by you), the HC of VOM decided they didn't want to win the round by sitting on fences all round and bravely took a decision (maybe misguided?) to stand on their own two feet...unlike WEET.

Once again if we had no friends why did you feel the need to create excessive NARWEET?

The fact is all this has happened...we are now on the point of stagnation...most of what you classify as 'whining' is actually reasoned arguement for why NARWEET is killing this round...

Can you really justify any good reason for the continued existence of NARWEET? I haven't seen one good reason why NARWEET shud continue...even NARWEET members are 'whining' as you put it that the round is already becoming boring for them...
Once again, it's the "threat" factor. VOM held a threatening position. Elements of NAR and elements of WEET had reason to want to attack various elements of VOM, and far less reason to want to attack each other.

I'm not trying to justify any continued existence of the nap between NAR + WEET. I'm just trying to tell you to suck it up and stop whining. VOM was outmanuevered due to its own shortsightedness and idealism. Stop blaming everyone else for taking advantage of weakness.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 03:18   #19
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Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by General1
In rd6 no1 complained about fos
Actually I did complain and I was also a member of fos back then. Just being nitpicky since I'm bored right now
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 03:22   #20
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by laputa
AS was talking about Samurai - known for their honorable way to fight.
Hardly a description for FLTV
Well to be honest it is hardly a description of any alliance with more then 20 members. Even deus did a few dishonourable things in their days.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 03:27   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadnought!
I agree with Alby!
Hmm. I like the color purple. That is about how much purpose your statement possesses.

How about enlightening us with logic and reasoning for why you agree with him. This isn't a beauty pagent you know (not that you wouldn't win any beauty pagent you entered into alby )
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 03:34   #22
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in short what alby is saying is: "the enemy of my enemy, is my friend"

that is the reason nar and weet napped in the first place.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 04:07   #23
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i think Mordern has it right on the spot. VOM HC have chosen um Virus as a partner, right

in my opinion that already calls for half the universe to go hit u, cause they are that unlikeable
Oly has alot of old plush ppl that dominated last round. ppl want revenge hence its only natural for everyone to want to roid their ass off, lyke u did to me last round
secondly Vom repeatdly try and stir up propganda before the round even began. Before the round started i had abolute no hesitation to roid the crap out of a NAR person, their gals are mainly seperate anyway, i mean y would i shak up with a NoS person anyway but all this propganda has led to hatred etc. being projected to the arrogant propgandaist of the um VOm alliances
yeah so therfore u guys did it urself
cal it instigated the problem
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 04:07   #24
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I agree VOM was outmanuvered and quite shortsighted. I expected us to lose the 1st war, but I didnt expect the total collapse that my side is conveying via the forums. Its pretty bad. I wont point any fingers since thats pointless.

Only thing I can state is that WEETNAR was way more organized and prepared than we where when it comes to waging war. You guys pulled off a masterful attack plan in the early stages of the round and literally caught us with our pants down. Good job. Will see you on the battlefield some more since I am continuing to fight till ticks end or my side makes some sort of agreement with portions of weetnar. I guess thats why I get nightly incomings :-)

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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 04:12   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by RexDrax
Only thing I can state is that WEETNAR was way more organized and prepared than we where when it comes to waging war. You guys pulled off a masterful attack plan in the early stages of the round and literally caught us with our pants down. Good job. Will see you on the battlefield some more since I am continuing to fight till ticks end or my side makes some sort of agreement with portions of weetnar. I guess thats why I get nightly incomings :-)
hehe, strange, I thought it was a shamble and was very poorly co-ordinated and unefficient, but then again it would have been more of a blood bath had it gone the way I would have chosen given the chance. vvomm would have been truely dead not just defeated.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 04:28   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Morden
hehe, strange, I thought it was a shamble and was very poorly co-ordinated and unefficient, but then again it would have been more of a blood bath had it gone the way I would have chosen given the chance. vvomm would have been truely dead not just defeated.
It was well coordinated. like 70-90% of VVOMM got incomings at the same time. This happened for like 4 days straight, I belive. Something like that is not a killer, but what really killed us was the planets defending instead of attacking. Since we where quite outnumbered there was no way we could cover the incomnigs since it takes rougly 2-3 times the ships to defend adequatly that early in the round since specific ships are rare and eta's are crap. I and a few others kept informing everyone to stop defending and just go attacking.

Yes that is bad on moral, however it does server a purpose. We do a roid swap and keep the fleets fairly intact. This also in turns offers a psychological aspect, ie no matter if you attack me, I am coming for your roids. This in turn would have kept VVOMM in the game quite a bit longer in my opinion.

However my arugemnts where falling on deaf ears most of the time. Nobody was willing to listen to a simple p3on like me, wish Rehs was back . I think some people just couldent understand teh tactic behind it or where just plain selfish wanting to protect their roids. Or it could be that they just didnt/couldent do it. I found it strange tbh since afaik can see its a perfectly good and valid strategy.

Maybe someone can shed some light on this for me?
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 05:18   #27
G.K Zhukov
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Quote:
Originally posted by RexDrax
It was well coordinated. like 70-90% of VVOMM got incomings at the same time. This happened for like 4 days straight, I belive. Something like that is not a killer, but what really killed us was the planets defending instead of attacking. Since we where quite outnumbered there was no way we could cover the incomnigs since it takes rougly 2-3 times the ships to defend adequatly that early in the round since specific ships are rare and eta's are crap. I and a few others kept informing everyone to stop defending and just go attacking.
Well coordinated...
With VVOMM having 60 galaxies and NARWEET having 140 or something, Im amazed NARWEET didnt just attack at daytime. That means they could attack every single VVOMM planet, and still have quite alot in reserve to defend.

Im now expect someone to tell me how "1337" skills NARWEET had to have in order to crush VVOMM
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 05:20   #28
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Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
Snip
And still none of this would have counted if not there would have been a NAP (ie an alliance) between NAR and WEET.

But hey, we aint gonna talk about that..
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 06:26   #29
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Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
And still none of this would have counted if not there would have been a NAP (ie an alliance) between NAR and WEET.

But hey, we aint gonna talk about that..
That's not true. If NAR and WEET hadn't had some sort of agreement, there would've been a different agreement. Or even lacking an agreement, there still would've been one major target.

Consider the situation:

You have three blocks. A, B, and C. They are reasonably alike in power, but A is generally considered more dangerous than B, which in turn is considered more powerful than C. If C is to achieve anything, it must attack either B or A, which naturally, are already ready to attack eachother. If C chooses not to attack, it is doomed to life in obscurity. Options: C chooses to work with B, together they are more powerful than A and over the course of a hard fought, but swift war, A is defeated. C chooses to work with A, the result is the same as for working with B. C chooses to go alone, hitting both A and B, A and B both get pissed off and stomp all over C.

It's quite easy to input VVOMM as the losing party in any of these three hypothetical situations. And it's easy to swap them out for different ones. If you have any doubts about the last one, have a look at nos in late round 4 and early round 5, or Æternals in round 3.

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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 06:57   #30
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Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
And still none of this would have counted if not there would have been a NAP (ie an alliance) between NAR and WEET.

But hey, we aint gonna talk about that..
As far as I can tell, the order went something like this.

VoM form.
VoM brag on the boards.
Weet and NaR form.
VoM add V and M.
Round starts.
Weet ally with NaR in order to eliminate the individually larger VVOMM.

He was talking about reasons from before the round.

The amount of crap that's talked about the formation of VoM is unbelieveable.

I mean, someone was claiming earlier that VVOMM was formed in a response to Weet and NaR allying, which is evidently wrong.

[edit]

It's like the trual problem, where there are 3 people. Each shoots in turn, starting with A, then B, then C.

A has a 50% chance of killing, B 75% and C 100%.

Who does A shoot?
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 08:15   #31
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Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
First, I'm not playing this round, so addressing me as any alliance rep is wrong.
If you're not playing this round, I don't think you're qualified to complain about whining of those of us who do, and have to choose between vacation/inactivitity, and being NARWEET farms because of having over 60 roids.

You can make all the excuses about situation before round. People are whining what is happening here and now, and has been happening for most of the round already. "Evil VOM" got their punishment for "powerblocking first" like two weeks ago, so now there's only NARWEET to blame.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 08:17   #32
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good thread AlbinoSquirrel

it was a scenario everyone with some brain could imagine

/me waves at cochese
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 10:49   #33
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u all are right.

but its realy time to change something its not fun anymore to play and i'm on the winning side atm. but i want fresh targets with new roids and not bashing the same lowbish **** all the time ...

vommv made the mistake but i think they payed already waiting mutch longer for a split is only pure idioty and brings boredom to the memberz of all allys. this here remembers me more and more to times were the best u could get as target was an auth retail ...

oh and btw thx to the nos and hirr recruting officer who recruted the (ex?!?) vom containg galaxy we had as target and ordered us to recall i hope for u i never get your coords ...
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 14:28   #34
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
Um, yes they did?

I can remember huge debates scaling the numbers of FoS/XeTa etc.
Well I didnt stop Titans at that time 2 get a NAP with Fos 2 kill Xeta, and that was 12 VS 2 orso (silver and tfd were dead).
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 15:03   #35
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Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
As far as I can tell, the order went something like this.

VoM form.
VoM brag on the boards.
Weet and NaR form.
VoM add V and M.
Round starts.
Weet ally with NaR in order to eliminate the individually larger VVOMM.

He was talking about reasons from before the round.

The amount of crap that's talked about the formation of VoM is unbelieveable.

I mean, someone was claiming earlier that VVOMM was formed in a response to Weet and NaR allying, which is evidently wrong.
You're quite wrong in there, it happened more like this:

1. VOM forms, announcing a closed gal policy
2. WEE form, announcing that they will accept all alliances but VOM into their galaxies
3. WEE become SWEET, and then WEET (Sapientia merges with WP)
4. VOM become VVOMM
5. NaR form as a block
Until that point, NaR were never considered hostile to VVOMM. VVOMM was not formed to fight NaR, but to fight SWEET with their open galaxy policies.
6. Round starts and NaR and WEET NAP

We made a mistake, we shouldn't have kept our closed gal policy after WEE announced they weren't going to do the same.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 15:37   #36
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Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jester
That's not true. If NAR and WEET hadn't had some sort of agreement, there would've been a different agreement. Or even lacking an agreement, there still would've been one major target.

Consider the situation:

You have three blocks. A, B, and C. They are reasonably alike in power, but A is generally considered more dangerous than B, which in turn is considered more powerful than C. If C is to achieve anything, it must attack either B or A, which naturally, are already ready to attack eachother. If C chooses not to attack, it is doomed to life in obscurity. Options: C chooses to work with B, together they are more powerful than A and over the course of a hard fought, but swift war, A is defeated. C chooses to work with A, the result is the same as for working with B. C chooses to go alone, hitting both A and B, A and B both get pissed off and stomp all over C.

It's quite easy to input VVOMM as the losing party in any of these three hypothetical situations. And it's easy to swap them out for different ones. If you have any doubts about the last one, have a look at nos in late round 4 and early round 5, or Æternals in round 3.

Jester
Wrong.
You forget a) gal setup b)that the blocks were quite equal, with perhaps VVOOMM beeing the smallest. c) as in r3/r4/r5, there is basicly nothing left to ally with for VVOMM, due to NAR+WEET beeing more than 50% of the active universe (exlude the farms, bot-planets, scanners, inactives, those who already more or less have quit).
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 15:40   #37
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Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Weet ally with NaR in order to eliminate the individually larger VVOMM.
eh? VVOMM is somewhat smaller in member size than the rest.
Yes, I know alot got fooled by WEET PR on these board, but hey, dont blame that on me

Aslo read my replies to Jester.
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<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 15:53   #38
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It's a good thread and some good points, but to be fair, just because VOM got beat up by a bunch of kids unable to play nice, doesn't mean that VOM were stupid. They tried to approach the round in a reasonable fashion. They made a block that stood a "chance" of whinning, but not by any certain means, and sat back having shown all their cards. The opposition knew what they were up against, and set the deck in a fashion by which VOM just didn't have a hope in hell.

were VOM naive? Maybe.

Were Weet + NaR smarter than VOM? Probably not actually, as in the end, their actions will be far more self destructive than VOMs. It won't be VOM that get blamed for the mass exodus we're seeing. They'll (or at least some of them will) claim victory for round 9, and then unless we see a miracle of advertising (and I'm sceptical to be honest) we may well finally see the last round of PA.

you pays your money and you takes your pick.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 16:08   #39
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
Wrong.
You forget a) gal setup b)that the blocks were quite equal, with perhaps VVOOMM beeing the smallest. c) as in r3/r4/r5, there is basicly nothing left to ally with for VVOMM, due to NAR+WEET beeing more than 50% of the active universe (exlude the farms, bot-planets, scanners, inactives, those who already more or less have quit).
You're right, due to galsetup 'A' made it very hard for 'C' to work with them.

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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 16:48   #40
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The first good thread about this topic I read.

I agree on about every Argument of Albino ... he saw the aspects of the whole issue quite clear.

Its a rule of War that the enemy of my enemy is my friend ... at least for as long as both our enemy is not defeated.

Look at history ... The Huns under Athila for example ... they first fought the visigoths together with the romans ... later they were defeated by the visigoths and the romans who joined forces together when the huns marched upon rome. Later it was the visigoths that crushed rome.

Its really simple if you look at it from an pragmatic point of view.

As for RedDrax ... its an honor to cross fleets with you ! Good to see some of you are still fighting ... I bet your even having fun ... I had during R5. See you on the battlefield. *salutes*

PS: It was vvomms worst mistake not to counter with full force. They handed over the Initative to us without a challenge ... we took advantage of that.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 17:05   #41
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Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
I've seen enough posts from VOM members/supporters whining, bitching, and complaining about how unfair and awful the WEET + NAR overkill is. About how cowardly they are, about how evil/stupid/demonic/etc etc they are.

It's time for you to realize a couple of things.

1. The obvious. VOM was the first MAJOR block to form. Sure, WP/Ely would probably be together, but (no offense to them), that's not a universe-wide threat. VOM was a threat, pure and simple, easily powerful enough to take the top spots unless an organized opposition arose. Hence, it did.

2. The less obvious. VOM shot themselves in the foot with their pure galaxy tactics. Sure, it's nice in some ways, but it counts on the enemy being honorable (no offense to WEET+NAR). Japanese samurai would go out to challenge the Mongols to single combat. They'd stand and recite their lineage, all their exploits, all their skills, and challenge the Mongols. The Mongols would promptly feather him with arrows. The samurai was very honorable and very dead. Welcome to the real world.

3. The blatantly overlooked. VOM didn't attempt to make a single friend this round and needlessly antagonized other alliances. Then you've got the past - RaH wanted a crack at Virus. And of course, Eclipse with their Fury heritage wanted a crack at Olympians with their Titans/LDK heritage. It doesn't take much to realize that the movers and shakers within the WEET and the NAR blocks both had common cause to go after VOM. Then you've got the posts on here by VOM, which have ranged from inane to arrogant to whining. Again, no points scored there. You're getting attacked because PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE DON'T LIKE YOU.

You managed to completely stack the deck against yourselves from the get-go, then collapsed in the shortest amount of time of any block in PA history. Take your defeat with a shred of dignity, and learn something out of it: such as, PA isn't an honorable, fair game, and you were idiotic enough to try and treat it as one. There's a lesson for you.
Nothing new in here, but tell me one thing:

Would you have created NAHRWEET if you could?
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 17:14   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wombat
Were Weet + NaR smarter than VOM? Probably not actually, as in the end, their actions will be far more self destructive than VOMs. It won't be VOM that get blamed for the mass exodus we're seeing. They'll (or at least some of them will) claim victory for round 9, and then unless we see a miracle of advertising (and I'm sceptical to be honest) we may well finally see the last round of PA.

you pays your money and you takes your pick.
Its funny because this point was brought up in every round, except possibly round 6, since the beginning of Planetarion. You can blame NARWEET all you want, but i cant really see this round's potential stagnation as being worse than the Furgion days of old.

Maybe its just because I'm on the other side now.
Maybe its just because you're on the other side now.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 17:19   #43
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Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jester
That's not true. If NAR and WEET hadn't had some sort of agreement, there would've been a different agreement. Or even lacking an agreement, there still would've been one major target.
Its quite easy, they exchanged coords. Thats when the **** hit the fan for VOM.

Had we been given time to get a bit of a head start, we could have lived with the situation.

Since VOM got incoming on every gal and NAHRWEET only had on 30 - 35% of their gals, we had a huge basic problem.

With some fire inbetween those blocks, we would have been far better off.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 17:23   #44
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How did you feel when I whined about Virus's role with the domination in rounds 2 through 5?

You ignored it, and said you were playing to win. Well, what makes NARWEET's position any different then yours?
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 17:26   #45
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sergio
You're quite wrong in there, it happened more like this:

1. VOM forms, announcing a closed gal policy
2. WEE form, announcing that they will accept all alliances but VOM into their galaxies
3. WEE become SWEET, and then WEET (Sapientia merges with WP)
4. VOM become VVOMM
5. NaR form as a block
Until that point, NaR were never considered hostile to VVOMM. VVOMM was not formed to fight NaR, but to fight SWEET with their open galaxy policies.
6. Round starts and NaR and WEET NAP

We made a mistake, we shouldn't have kept our closed gal policy after WEE announced they weren't going to do the same.
To be honest, we were quite public about the fact that we wouldnt target NAHR at all.

We thought that would keep them away from WEET.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 17:31   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by genosse27
good thread AlbinoSquirrel

it was a scenario everyone with some brain could imagine

/me waves at cochese
You think its lack of brains to only see one scenario?

The decisions done by VOM only became mistakes because of decisions done by NAHRWEET HC.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 17:52   #47
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making your galaxies pure allies is a....mistake?
where's my dictionary, I need to look up 'mistake'
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 18:00   #48
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Hicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHicks is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Quote:
Originally posted by InTGuRu
making your galaxies pure allies is a....mistake?
where's my dictionary, I need to look up 'mistake'
* looks at the universe.

So now your saying that you were right to close your galaxies to neutrals even though your bitching in other threads about there being too many galaxies against you ? I hope to God you don't hold a command posistion.
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 18:22   #49
Wombat
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Quote:
Originally posted by Barrow|Pony
Its funny because this point was brought up in every round, except possibly round 6, since the beginning of Planetarion. You can blame NARWEET all you want, but i cant really see this round's potential stagnation as being worse than the Furgion days of old.

Maybe its just because I'm on the other side now.
Maybe its just because you're on the other side now.
yeah i do know what you mean (i've seen it from both sides btw).

I do think the circumstances are slightly different though. VOMs actions were reasonably honest if nothing else. They wanted to win sure, but in theory their setup did not preclude anyone else from doing so, and certainly their policy of fixed and closed gals meant that they made political flexibilty a real option in a 3 block scenario, unlike say the actions of fltvtvtflttttvvl whatever in round 7 (of which I was a BC in so i don't wish to claim any moral high ground there).

whereas in contrast the actions of narweet and fz (although that's not official, but I would guess the amount of incomming between the two is not a random number, but considerably less than one would expect) had only one logical outcome. There was no way pre ticks that vom could ahve done anything. They could -and should- have delayed it, and they should probably for the most part be a bit less whingy now, but that withstanding, this outcome was always inevitable. I would go on to say, more inevitable than rnd 5 or rnd 7. Because in those rounds, the private gals per parallel did not outnumber the opposition 3/4-1.
I mean look at the VOM block. Oly are a solid crew, decent players with good tactical overviews but they're small. Ditto Madcows, virus unfortunatly went to pieces, and as for vision and ministry, no disrespect but I've never seen you do anything notable though that's probably more from lack of opportunity. But certainly that bunch is not battle scared and resilient enough to cope with what was thrown at them, hell I doubt if you swapped them equally with any alliances you'd see a change in these results. VOM did not stand a chance.

rnd 5 was one thing, rnd 7 should have been avoided, but fltv had lost once to numbers and wasn't going to again (though they behaved like wankers afterwards), but the speed at which this happened (the inevitable speed I might add, yes 2 days to crying "we surrender" is so french it's appauling but it couldn't have lasted more than a week at best) and the way in which it's actually being blamed on VOM, who naively enough did set out to at least allow the game to be interesting, conversly their opponants did not, has lead to a drop in activity unseen before on both sides.

Both sides are also getting mardy about it, something we didn't see in rnd 5 or rnd 7, at least not with this speed. Infact this is the first round where, on the very first night of incomming, and the sides shown, everyone, EVERYONE, knew the outcome, and how quick it would come.

This is a long post, and a bit of a rant, and now that I look at it, it says nothing new so I dunno why I bother. But there you go, a historical evaluation, this hasn't happened before to this extent. It is i guess a logical extension of what has happened before, but I had hoped given rnd 6 and rnd 8, which the teams were stacked, but reasonably flexible in fashion, (and no huge blocks were formed until very late into the round, and even then only 3-4 alliances) we'd started a trail backwards from the course of how to win at PA most effectively, and started down, how to play PA in a fashion which is more fun both for me, and allows PA to grow rather than shrink.

still, you guys won. And very convincing it was too. Well played, well organised, excelent political skills, excelent battle tactics in starting when you did a faultless round.

but we're not a quater of the way through, it's over, you have gals mixed behond belief. So what's happening for the next 3/4s?
and please do tell us cos we're all itching for you to let us know how the next bit is going to go, I mean lets face it, this is dull right? for everyone, it's not like this round counts for much anyway, it's just a holder for round 10, so lets get on with it, and see if we can't keep just a few folks left who can be bothered to sign up for YET another round of the same stuff
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Unread 28 Mar 2003, 20:41   #50
Jackal2112
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Re: Something for for VOM to think about.

Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
<cut> propaganda </cut>
nice try, but no kitchen
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