Lockhead & VOM performance vs NewX/NoCex

[Hardin]

Why did u delete ur thread?...Was an interesting debate there and nice to see an unbiased post from someone not in VOM calling on the dissolution of NARSWEET

Zhukov also made some good points in his last post which are now lost!

Gunn3r and The_Fish's posts in that thread questioned VOM's capabilities as opposed to NewX/NoCeX and apparent quick capitulation...

They obviously do not understand the scale of the opposition VOM is facing in this small universe.

The NARSWEET block is so large that it can attack every VOM gal simultaneously and still have fleets at home for defence. The incoming VOM is getting is WAY WAY WAY beyond the scale NewX or NoCeX ever got!

Did, for example 90% of NoCeX gals get hit in a single night with a minimum of 3/4 incoming fleets on each? I doubt it!

VOM is and will continue to fight back and imo has 'better' members than the majority of NoCeX and NewX ever had...but the sheer size of opponents make resistance ALMOST futile...

But resistance will go on and I am sure VOM will do some damage...

However if Ely/WP/NaR really want to put some life back into this game then NARSWEET really has to break up soon or else we face some seemingly endless stagnation and farming of all non NARSWEET galaxies.

Eventually ofc NARSWEET will fall apart but will it be at a time of choosing of Eclipse or at a time of choosing of Ely/WP/NaR?

Originally posted by Hardin
Did, for example 90% of NoCeX gals get hit in a single night with a minimum of 3/4 incoming fleets on each? I doubt it!

Yes.

[logbat]

lock showed that there is atleast 1 man in eclipse that have commen sense

I cant belive/understand members in NARWEET feels this are okey,some bells must be ringing in the top floor.

[Kyoto]

All the resistance of a jellyfish facing a blowtourch....

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by logbat
I cant belive/understand members in NARWEET feels this are okey,some bells must be ringing in the top floor.

It's a conspiracy stopping us from agreeing with you. Honest.

[Eol]

NoCeX no doubt faced exactly the same as VOM do now - WTFVE in r5 was immensely overproportionate to the opposition. I could easily imagine that we hit 90% of their gals every night tbh.

Originally posted by Eol
NoCeX no doubt faced exactly the same as VOM do now - WTFVE in r5 was immensely overproportionate to the opposition. I could easily imagine that we hit 90% of their gals every night tbh.

Not only WTFVE, we also had lux, fa, etc on us...

Then all the noobs alliance also decided to get a go at us, hehe.
The only 2 alliances that I can think of that was never really hostile to us was Templar and ROCK. NoS was barely an alliance aswell in r5, heh.

[logbat]

Originally posted by Ahriman
It's a conspiracy stopping us from agreeing with you. Honest.

no its greed and the chance to get easy roids rather than to play fair for them! thats honesty.

[Hardin]

Kyoto, well in terms of numbers its almost like

The People's Republic of China (NARSWEET)

vs

San Marino (VOM)

Although that is probably a little exageration u get the idea

[The_Fish]

I'm not saying VVOMM have got it as easy or easier than NewX did in R7, but I wish there wasnt all this on the boards, and more on the battlefield. I know that VVOMM are probably not going to do very well in the coming days and weeks, but does it matter? It's much more fun orging def than rolling over and dying.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by The_Fish
I'm not saying VVOMM have got it as easy or easier than NewX did in R7, but I wish there wasnt all this on the boards, and more on the battlefield.

I agree with you mate!

But you have to have something to do while your fleet comes back from a nights attack or defend

I hardly think posting on here seriously dsrupts a person's abilities to fight. I suppose it just depend how long it takes you to write every post

And again VOM are not rolling over and dying - we are simply pointing out how excessive NARSWEET is and how it wud be nice if u guys just made things a little more fun/even by splitting up!

[The_Fish]

lol... I dont mind talking about it, but the numerous cries of 'its not fair' 'we're the good guys, you blocked to win, we blocked to save pa' are getting a bit too numerous, shut up moaning and fight is what I say. It cant be that hard to find more allies surely? What about Zenith/FAnG, plus others that are seemingly neutral.

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by logbat
no its greed and the chance to get easy roids rather than to play fair for them! thats honesty.

So we're just as spinesless as r7 ViruS HC? *chuckle* you weren't so up for a fairer fight then, now were you?

I haven't had any easy roids this round, I've been defended against and I have been attacked (and lost roids). So from my perspective I don't see that the war is yet close to having been won.

On the other hand I don't want stagnation, if stagnation occurs my activity will fall drastically just as plenty of other bored/killed players' will.

I do think it's a bit rich to be complaining about it though, when you could dare speak of revolutionary action to invigorate the round. When VoM blocked first despite the obvious consequences which Cochese pointed out at the time.

If I thought the war was won then I would speak out, I think I can be given that much credit at least. So prove to me that you have lost already. If I begin roiding easily and not needing defence then I will complain in private to my command. Until then, I will not act on your hypocritical desires.

[logbat]

Originally posted by The_Fish
I'm not saying VVOMM have got it as easy or easier than NewX did in R7, but I wish there wasnt all this on the boards, and more on the battlefield. I know that VVOMM are probably not going to do very well in the coming days and weeks, but does it matter? It's much more fun orging def than rolling over and dying.

summer is comeing schools are in final stages and im pretty sure ALOT will find that more interesting than playing vs aprox 80% of the uni! there is many hardcore players left and none really find the time to play when its a one way road.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by The_Fish
lol... I dont mind talking about it, but the numerous cries of 'its not fair' 'we're the good guys, you blocked to win, we blocked to save pa' are getting a bit too numerous, shut up moaning and fight is what I say. It cant be that hard to find more allies surely? What about Zenith/FAnG, plus others that are seemingly neutral.

Well we are the good guys...it's obvious ffs...I am always on the good guys side...how cud we not be...

Re. other allies c'mon u wud need virtually every neutral/non-aligned gal/alliance in the game to suddenly wake up, get organised and then join VOM enmasse to even just balance things...

[The_Fish]

Well you're too late then, NaR could have been on your side, or FAnG/Zenith (dont know what they're doing). There's plenty more you could have got, TFD, Rock, hirr. It's a bit late whining that you're outnumbered now.

I might be wrong here, but I dont remember such posts from NewX when they faced FLTTVFR which is in fact 7 v 4 instead of 7 v 5

[Hardin]

Originally posted by Ahriman
-SNIP-

Ahri - most of what u say is tru... VOM is fighting and will continue to fightback...

Because we are organised it is hard to roid us... because we are active we can organise last min gal defences when ally def fails etc... we may even block the majority of the attacks on us...

...but the sheer weight of numbers means most of the traffic (and roids) is going one way... and you know that will only be sustainable for so long!

NARSWEET is clearly excessive... we will have stagnation unless something changes...

[Hardin]

Originally posted by The_Fish
Well you're too late then, NaR could have been on your side, or FAnG/Zenith (dont know what they're doing). There's plenty more you could have got, TFD, Rock, hirr. It's a bit late whining that you're outnumbered now.

I might be wrong here, but I dont remember such posts from NewX when they faced FLTTVFR which is in fact 7 v 4 instead of 7 v 5

Yes there were those post from NewX...

And that round suffered from a long period of stagnation and is hardly a shining light for what this round could be.

All I am saying is that NARSWEET is excessive and will lead to stagnation as FLVTT did. There is really no need for it!

[The_Fish]

If/When that happens, something will change. Whether it is WEET V NaR/VVOMM or anything else, I dont know, but if VVOMM are dead and buried then it will change.

BUT you're not. I had to cancel an attack this morning to defend my gal, I know WP members lost roids today, my mate being one of them, it's not all 1 way traffic.

[The_Fish]

and stop saying NARSWEET ffs

there is no S

there is no alliance.

There is no shared attack chan, there is no shared defence chan.

targets were double booked a couple of nights back, you'll have to take my word for it or not believe me, because like Iraq cant prove its disarmed, I cant prove we're not allied.

[Spoticus]

Originally posted by The_Fish
I'm not saying VVOMM have got it as easy or easier than NewX did in R7, but I wish there wasnt all this on the boards, and more on the battlefield. I know that VVOMM are probably not going to do very well in the coming days and weeks, but does it matter? It's much more fun orging def than rolling over and dying.

In 2 days I have seen the best defending FLVT gal of r6/7 get roided worse than they ever did in one full month of multiwave inc in r6 or an entire alliance focusing on their gal in r7. They obviously arent quitting yet, nor are they dead. But any1 that believes that VOM can last weeks as you put it, without a political change is either lieing to themselves or totally and utterly oblivious to what is happening.

[WipeOut]

I do really not remember any of the winning guys in round 5 stating that they were bashing the **** out of NoCeX.

But I do see these same people posting it now.

Kinda sad you need to loose to see the light.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by The_Fish
If/When that happens, something will change. Whether it is WEET V NaR/VVOMM or anything else, I dont know, but if VVOMM are dead and buried then it will change.

BUT you're not. I had to cancel an attack this morning to defend my gal, I know WP members lost roids today, my mate being one of them, it's not all 1 way traffic.

hehe - glad to hear it...

Everyone knows that NARSWEET will 'eventually' break up!

However, it is a lesson from previous rounds that the time when the losing block is beaten is always overestimated and they are normally 'overkilled' with stagnation for a period.

The weaker allies in a block will always push for the 'block' to continue for as long as possible thinking it allows them to grow with protection so there is an inbuilt inertia once a block is formed.

However, the 'leeter' elements of the winning block will eventually turn on the weaker allies and because all other opposition in the uni has already been crushed the weaker allies also get taken out.

This is what happened in R5 and R7... It will happen again!

If we want to avoid this situation of stagnation in this round then the HC's in the weaker NARSWEET allies need to be brave and make a judgement about when to jump ship and if they leave it too long they and their allies are doomed - as are the chances of a fun balanced round.

As I said b4 NARSWEET is excessive...unless it changes soon the round is buggered!

[gzambo]

Originally posted by [7]Gunn3r
Not only WTFVE, we also had lux, fa, etc on us...

Then all the noobs alliance also decided to get a go at us, hehe.
The only 2 alliances that I can think of that was never really hostile to us was Templar and ROCK. NoS was barely an alliance aswell in r5, heh.

we'll we were probably to busy trying to defend the constant incoming we had ourselves to target anyone specifically in rd5

but had we know u were that weak we might have targeted u

[Razorback]

Still trying hardin ?

U dont realise your HC tried to gather the same scenario for NAR-VVomm ?
So talking about fairness when your own cards turn against you seems abit odd.
Talking about how much u get owned is just debateable as any alliance who is losing gets owned no matter what the opposition is (may it be bigger planets may it be more planets or better planets) you will always find a cause why you get owned.
And to a very very valid point, wasnt it you who forced or atleast pushed the universe to this scenario ?
Seeing you announced the first block a month before the start what did u exspect ?
U honestly thing threads like "dont fear us we arent a powerblock, we are no threat etc" really helped to persuade ppl to play a more open scenario ?
You know those who demand most are mostly those who have the most corpse in the cellar.
So be it hardin, Vvomm is losing now, lets even play this scenario, its 2 days since the real attacks took part, you are hardly owned like you even pointed out yourself (last minute galdefence efforts) and you are so ubercool to stand against 90% and still have chances (your own words). What does this tell others ? Maybe "omg they are a threat lets kill them and not give mercy" ?

Please hardin do us all a favour, first let someone help you to find yourself the point of your post. If u found it, let somene with abit sense for PR step by have a look and overwork it, so you dont contradict yourself all time. And when that is done, spam the boards with some good structured and logical PR for vvomm, now you only look like a clown (no personal insult).
And asfar as historical examples are cheap, R6 was the same scenario for the furgion side, so was R4 so was R8 for fury, did anyone threaten to go off for RL or claimed 500 times that its unfair ? hardly so please if you are losing try losing silent as in every war there is a winner and a loser. This time u (vvomm) are the losers, so be it. How you lost might be a shame but thats how life goes.

Anyway, I say everyone fight as hard as they can, I have logs of what could be called an extremly interesting "déjà vu" after-war positions that certains alliances will take.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by Razorback
Still trying hardin ?

U dont realise your HC tried to gather the same scenario for NAR-VVomm ?
So talking about fairness when your own cards turn against you seems abit odd.

TBH I would not be happy if VOM had done this and like Lockhead did with his post (altho prolly internally) I wud be suggesting to my HC that the block be broken up

[i]Talking about how much u get owned is just debateable as any alliance who is losing gets owned no matter what the opposition is (may it be bigger planets may it be more planets or better planets) you will always find a cause why you get owned.
And to a very very valid point, wasnt it you who forced or atleast pushed the universe to this scenario ?
Seeing you announced the first block a month before the start what did u exspect ? [/b]

I expected WEE and thought that would be a good match up... I dint expect excessive NARSWEET

[i]U honestly thing threads like "dont fear us we arent a powerblock, we are no threat etc" really helped to persuade ppl to play a more open scenario ?
You know those who demand most are mostly those who have the most corpse in the cellar.
So be it hardin, Vvomm is losing now, lets even play this scenario, its 2 days since the real attacks took part, you are hardly owned like you even pointed out yourself (last minute galdefence efforts) and you are so ubercool to stand against 90% and still have chances (your own words). What does this tell others ? Maybe "omg they are a threat lets kill them and not give mercy" ?
[/b]

Hehe now - I full expect u to hit us as hard as you can... It is just a pity you have gone for numbers rather than skilled approach to this. I am also pointing out that NARSWEET is clearly excessive to this need. I am also pointing out that unless the current political situation with NARSWEET changes then we are in for a period of stagnation before NARSWEET starts fighting itself!

[i]Please hardin do us all a favour, first let someone help you to find yourself the point of your post. If u found it, let somene with abit sense for PR step by have a look and overwork it, so you dont contradict yourself all time. And when that is done, spam the boards with some good structured and logical PR for vvomm, now you only look like a clown (no personal insult). [/b]

I don't get upset with what is posted here I am simply responding to some of the (pardon the expression) 'crap' that is coming from the other side. Oh yes...as my rl job is actually PR I do have some sense for it and the most important thing I have learned that the best PR is when you are being as honest and open as possible! My posts are not propoganda 'for' VOM anyway - they are just highlighting the problem for PA of a one-sided, unbalanced block...

[i]And asfar as historical examples are cheap, R6 was the same scenario for the furgion side, so was R4 so was R8 for fury, did anyone threaten to go off for RL or claimed 500 times that its unfair ? hardly so please if you are losing try losing silent as in every war there is a winner and a loser. This time u (vvomm) are the losers, so be it. How you lost might be a shame but thats how life goes. [/b]

As I said before I am claiming NARSWEET is excessive which some of your own members have already accepted it is. I am also pointing out *again* that if NARSWEET continues then this round will be ruined for everyone - not just VOM - the same as R5 and R7 were.

I have no personal intention of quitting and will fight NARSWEET to my last ship - Nothing personal ofc

[MAdnRisKy]

VOM vs WEE would have been an interesting and fair fight.

this isn't, just because VOM came first doesn't mean that the actions of their opposition are completely justified (but probably predictable)

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
VOM vs WEE would have been an interesting and fair fight.

this isn't, just because VOM came first doesn't mean that the actions of their opposition are completely justified (but probably predictable)

I never heard people caring when Fury was on the receiving end. Tell me why I should care about VoM's wellbeing when people dont care about my alliances?

[Ahriman]

If WEET and NaR had both opted for our-block-only galaxies, would NaR now be an independant 3rd block?

I can't really think of any time where a decent 3rd block has been in place, with no political connections between 2 of the 3 main blocks.

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by Zh|l
I never heard people caring when Fury was on the receiving end. Tell me why I should care about VoM's wellbeing when people dont care about my alliances?

I'll reply for them.

We should consider the game as a whole, and not just our alliance.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by Zh|l
I never heard people caring when Fury was on the receiving end. Tell me why I should care about VoM's wellbeing when people dont care about my alliances?

I am not asking you to care about VoM's well being - I am asking people to think of this round's well being (self-serving tho that might be ) Note: Ahriman got there as I was writing this

We all know Zhll that if and when VOM is defeated there will stagnation as NARSWEET try and consolidate their position.

We also know that you and Eclipse will most likely be on the winning side when NARSWEET eventually splits and starts in-fighting.

You therefore have no interest at all in seeing NARSWEET break up now and I can understand that 100%. It is much safer for you to make sure VOM are completely out of the game before you start turning on your NARSWEET partners!

What I am pointing out to the 'minor' allies in NARSWEET is that they are part of a juggernaut which unless they act soon will be unstoppable.

At some stage they will be thrown overboard and there will be no one left to help them!

The round will then be a series of one off engagements between unequal forces rather than a sustained war which we had last round and in R6.

Oh what fun!

[Razorback]

U made a mistake Ahriman u forgot to type WE in bold and They normal. As it seems here is quiet a doublemoral.
Seeing someone going for a win claims now to be only interested in a fair fight or about the wellbeeing of the community.
And who was involved in generating a similar scenario against weet.
I kinda miss the point why u approached nar on the first place if weet was such a fair competition and if u cared so much about the game ?

Seems odd but i guess beeing on the losing side now purely erases all previous records ?

[hinch]

its all bollocks anyway im in a totally non allied galaxy (retirement home ahoy) and we`ve had nightly incoming from both sides i think your all a little confused try hitting the enemy not the harmless and you may find you have more luck

[Sergio]

Originally posted by Zh|l
I never heard people caring when Fury was on the receiving end. Tell me why I should care about VoM's wellbeing when people dont care about my alliances?

Why should I play for the enjoyment of a group of ppl who want to win by numbers instead of skills? If I am not enjoying a round for which i payed 10 bucks, why should you?
/me goes into vacation mode


See, if it's about being greedy and stubborn, I can sink down to that level. Not that i intend to, but it is amusing to think what if...

[Hardin]

Hinch - :-)

Razorback - Fact is that VOM - NAR never happened! Prolly because VOM didn't allow mixed gals unlike WEE!

We therefore will never know just how overwhelming they would have been!

However I know one thing...if the block had happened and had such an excess of superiority (in terms of numbers) that NARSWEET have currently then I think many in the VOM block would have done like Lockhead bravely did and complain at their own HC. I know that many (altho not all) in VOM would prefer to beat their enemies head on using skill rather than simply swamping with massed numbers.

I also know that if VOM-NAR had happened then we would have heard plenty of bitching from u guys (ofc u will deny it )

As MAdnrisky said WEE vs VOM would have been fun...

It's not to late!

[Scouse]

Did I just see someone say that NAR and WEET arn't working to hit VVOMM atm?

Gee. You're a little late there. The "You started it, so you're gonna pay" excuse is much better.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by Zh|l
I never heard people caring when Fury was on the receiving end. Tell me why I should care about VoM's wellbeing when people dont care about my alliances?

ROFL

[Hardin]

Originally posted by Scouse
Did I just see someone say that NAR and WEET arn't working to hit VVOMM atm?

Gee. You're a little late there. The "You started it, so you're gonna pay" excuse is much better.

Yes Scouse - someone did say it...

The_Fish -

"there is no alliance. There is no shared attack chan, there is no shared defence chan. targets were double booked a couple of nights back, you'll have to take my word for it or not believe me, because like Iraq cant prove its disarmed, I cant prove we're not allied."

Altho to be fair the 'You started it, so you're gonna pay' excuse has been used in this thread on a few occasions altho by someone else

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by Razorback
U made a mistake Ahriman u forgot to type WE in bold and They normal. As it seems here is quiet a doublemoral.
Seeing someone going for a win claims now to be only interested in a fair fight or about the wellbeeing of the community.
And who was involved in generating a similar scenario against weet.
I kinda miss the point why u approached nar on the first place if weet was such a fair competition and if u cared so much about the game ?

Seems odd but i guess beeing on the losing side now purely erases all previous records ?

We all know that atleast VVOMM had the guts to have a clean galaxy policy, while WEET didnt.
Regarding a 2nd war, in any way it comes, its not unimportant with the galaxy structure. You can ofc pretend it is though, if it suits the Eclipse PR...

[Razorback]

Zhukov and your point is ?
Clean galaxy policy ? LMAO all Vvoomm gals nearly contain aswell rah or other alliances like rock templer etc.
Dont try to blind anyone with clean gals.

and about a possible 2nd war, i would love to hear your conclusions as you seem to be the root of all wit

[Hicks]

Originally posted by Scouse
Did I just see someone say that NAR and WEET arn't working to hit VVOMM atm?

Gee. You're a little late there. The "You started it, so you're gonna pay" excuse is much better.

To be honest the co-operation between NAR and WEET isn't all it's made out to be on AD. I wouldn't go as far too say there's none but it's not much more than a NAP with both sides are just working against the same common enemy.

VoM with a super "clean" galaxy policy ? Sure we all know that VoM made a load of exceptions for "top" people however never went as far as allowing rank and file neutrals in, how on earth can you bitch about being outnumbered galaxy wise when you refuse to let people join your galaxies ?

[Eol]

Originally posted by Razorback
Zhukov and your point is ?
Clean galaxy policy ? LMAO all Vvoomm gals nearly contain aswell rah or other alliances like rock templer etc.
Dont try to blind anyone with clean gals.

and about a possible 2nd war, i would love to hear your conclusions as you seem to be the root of all wit

I want the **** you smoke.

It's funny how round after round, peoples always denies that NAP always develop to an Allied status more or less by co-operating the enemy targets, intel on enemy gals and occasionally share defense. 1v1v1 will ALWAYS, ALWAYS turns out 2v1. Why some peoples still deny this is beyond me.

[Hardin]

Originally posted by Razorback
Zhukov and your point is ?
Clean galaxy policy ? LMAO all Vvoomm gals nearly contain aswell rah or other alliances like rock templer etc.
Dont try to blind anyone with clean gals.

and about a possible 2nd war, i would love to hear your conclusions as you seem to be the root of all wit

Not a single RaH in my gal...

The rule for Oly anyway was quite clear - NO MIXING - I don't know if all gals followed it 100% but I am pretty sure the vast majority did!

[Hicks]

Originally posted by Hardin
Not a single RaH in my gal...

The rule for Oly anyway was quite clear - NO MIXING - I don't know if all gals followed it 100% but I am pretty sure the vast majority did!

It was more like no mixing unless your a someone.

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by Hardin


The round will then be a series of one off engagements between unequal forces rather than a sustained war which we had last round and in R6.

Oh what fun!

R6 was two blocks vs one. Just to refresh your memory as it seems abit fuzzy and blinded by some propaganda.

As for VoM, you don't seem dead so its entirely amusing for you to claim you have lost already.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by Razorback
Zhukov and your point is ?
Clean galaxy policy ? LMAO all Vvoomm gals nearly contain aswell rah or other alliances like rock templer etc.
Dont try to blind anyone with clean gals.

and about a possible 2nd war, i would love to hear your conclusions as you seem to be the root of all wit

Im refering to VOMs post. Im not playing PA anymore, nor does I bother to pm the "right people" to get the information needed to be in "the loop". That means I get my information from AD (and the things I can sum up for myself).
Reading the WP log, it seemed clear that NARWEET would be heavily mixed, am I mistaken? I dont think so.
Do VVOMM have clean gals, maybe, maybe not. But I do think they atleast have cleaner gals that WEET, and really, alliances like rock and templar cant compare to hirr or rah for instance.

We have yet to see "public evidence" about the gal structures though.. care to post it Focht, or isnt it good pr? Here you got a fine posibility to prove me wrong, and if you post such evidence, I will gladly admit "defeat"

Its a typical human thing to be biased. But its not worth overdoing is it? fx when you and others from Fury talk about r8 as all vs Fury, when in fact you had allies like Adelante, Fang, ToT and WP, not to speak about the massive recruitment drive (witch included whole BG's). This extremly biased PR writing is getting boring, try changing the tune sometimes Focht!

Oh, I found a few VVOMM gal channels on a certain irc server myself, and to my knowlegde, they were quite pure VVOMM.

About the 2nd war, I assume Eclipse and Rah already made deals. Atleast it looks so, when one read Petru's PR posts. But hey, Im not playing

[Hardin]

Originally posted by Zh|l
R6 was two blocks vs one. Just to refresh your memory as it seems abit fuzzy and blinded by some propaganda.

As for VoM, you don't seem dead so its entirely amusing for you to claim you have lost already.

Zh|l I am sorry but you are not up to your usual standards today!

I didn't say R6 was not two blocks against one...what I said was that there was sustained war right up until the end - and that was because the blocks and alliances in them were flexible and changed sides.

R6 and R8 are generally acknowledged as being reasonably 'fun' rounds for the majority. R5 and R7 were not becasue one block was so dominant that they crushed all opposition and stagnated the universe! (like NARSWEET is trying now)!

Also where have I claimed VoM were dead? We are still fighting and hitting back and I have acknowledged that...

I am just pointing out that NARSWEET is simply excessive for tackling VOM... I am sure u know the numbers Zh|l...

As I said before it is in ur and Eclipse's interest to keep NARSWEET together as long as possible.

You know that when NARSWEET does eventually split up whoever you have kicked will have no one significant left in the universe to ally too... and can be killed one by one...

I just hope some of your 'allies' in NARSWEET will have the sense to get out early enough before this round stagnates completely and there is still some opposition alive in the universe --

However, knowing PA history they will all sit there till it is too late and then be surprised when you find a contrived excuse to dump 'em!

[cypher]

just quit complaining everyone... it's useless... and they are too scared to change atm anyways, wait a few days/week maybe and they will do it..

just have fun

remember pa is boring anyways, irc is fun