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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 02:12   #101
Gayle29uk
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
Whereas the information might have been 'intended' for share over a local network, the user in question did this with the tools that advertised this information freely on the internet.
But did you not think that was silly of him and therefore possibly accidental? I would have, that immediately invalidates any arguments I might later make about permission.
Quote:
I use advertise the way it is used in 'computer stuff'. This is the equivalent of someone posting a webpage containing the same information, only accessible by a different tool. Posting a webpage and then saying 'you cannot view this unless you have permission' is the EXACT same thing, protocol of access is not an issue, although people are confusing it to be.
Yes and no, I suppose I'm arguing two different things here. First off the method of access is one that most people wouldn't even consider simply because they don't know that sharing their drive on a local network also (in most cases) shares it in the internet. Whether the courts would view that as stupidity (i.e. permission granted to access) or would they consider directly browsing to someone's IP uninvited (in the real world sense, not the network sense) to be unauthorised access? From what I've read the courts in many countries don't know themselves yet, it simply hasn't been decided.
Quote:
The fact that the user made an error does not mean anyone accessing the information did not have a 'right' to see if it is publically advertised like this.
See above.
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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 02:24   #102
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there was nothing stopping anyone getting into the shared folder, therefor it should be treated like any other public/semi-private website.
there really shouldnt be any arguement over this matter, so just drop it why dont you...
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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 02:30   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Yes and no, I suppose I'm arguing two different things here. First off the method of access is one that most people wouldn't even consider simply because they don't know that sharing their drive on a local network also (in most cases) shares it in the internet. Whether the courts would view that as stupidity (i.e. permission granted to access) or would they consider directly browsing to someone's IP uninvited (in the real world sense, not the network sense) to be unauthorised access? From what I've read the courts in many countries don't know themselves yet, it simply hasn't been decided.
See, this is the point where you are distinctivly mistaken. As already pointed out by Ado (yunnoh, the guy with a degree in this stuff) this is NOT illegal and countries + europe HAVE decided on it. The issue hAl raised was quite simply a law that is correct, but that he chose to apply to the wrong situation (open vs shared).

You say 'uninvited', well the issue is that a public share is in fact an 'open invitation' to anyone. If you want to 'invite' people, you do so by giving them logins. You say 'real world sense', but as you see you are trying to apply something from the real world (ie the inviting issue) to something that simply DOES NOT apply to computers. A share is considered an open invititation to anyone, and its this difference in semantics that is what people are objecting about.
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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 02:40   #104
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This discussion really got me curious about specific rights of someone to access an open share on someone's hard drive. And from my research I have found information and predent court cases that suggest any access to information that is 'locked' is illegal.. however NetBT shares without password protection are considered public property. This is from studying law in my country, others' may be different.
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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 02:48   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle29uk
But did you not think that was silly of him and therefore possibly accidental? I would have, that immediately invalidates any arguments I might later make about permission.
Believe it or not, there actually has been a similar, yet completely unrelated type of debate, which was recently settled in the courts.

You are a woman (I assume). As you know, sometimes, while you're walking around, you might "accidentally" walk, sit, climb stairs in such a manner so that someone might see up your skirt.

There have been a bunch of perverts that film these types of things (called upskirts), and post them on websites.

There have been many attempts to proscecute them. In November of 2002, the Supreme Court of Washington, ruled that the voyeurism codes were invalidated by the fact that the the incident occured in a public place. In short, the law only provides protection if you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. (their words).

I believe, as do many others, that a computer which is a) visible to the world b) has data exposed and c) is not behind a firewall, likewise, has no reasonable expectation of privacy.

I expect this topic to be debated for some time, but eventually, the courts will more than likely rule in the same manner on this different (but very similar) subject.

The precedent has been set.

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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 02:58   #106
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Whoop, as much as I applaud perverts being proscecuted, the point you make does not compare to computers.

As I already stated, a 'share' is regarded as an open invitation to ANYONE. A 'share' in IT is the same as the women walking topless over the streets. An 'open' computer, is something entirely different, an open computer is like the situation you just described. Conceiled, yet not proteceted. Available, yet obscured.
Like I said many times already, the subject of the matter is that people look at this from a frame of mind they use in their daily lifes. However the 'net' in this case is not build on the same frame, people are unable to transfer themselves to this and therefore any comparisons to the 'real world' seem to apply the same in the virtual world, which they don't. Computer crime laws recognize this and are already well adjusted to this.

The point made by people like gayle and hAl is that the current items under 'revision' are the idea of an 'open' as opposed a 'shared' computer. Rest assured, the definition of 'shared' is well versed in computer criminality and there is absolutely no way there can be any discussion about it being legal or not to access a share, in law-circles that is, on AD however this is perfectly acceptible.

(I use the term 'share' as what technically should be called an 'advertised share', ie a portion of the computer that is not only open to other people but also as so presented)
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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 03:58   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
Whoop, as much as I applaud perverts being proscecuted, the point you make does not compare to computers.
The point I was getting at, was that even when you are NOT sharing, if you are in a position where you have no reasonable assumption of privacy, the law does not protect your privacy from being infringed upon.

If the law does not protect the women in this case, who are NOT "sharing" their bodies to be viewed, don't you think it will be far less likely to protect the people who ARE sharing their computers to the universe ?

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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 05:09   #108
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Due to overwhelming requests...

http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;314984

enjoy.

-whoop
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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 10:33   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kjeldoran
IF the info was obtained throgh hacking (and I'm saying IF cause parra showed us it wasn't) then that person should be on trail for commiting a crime. Cheating in a game is NOT a crime you can get convicted for, hacking is. So imo a hacking is 5000 times worse then the worst botuser.

rgds Kj
The info was obtained through hacking (unauthorised acess of data against the potential will of the owner). For it to be a crime, specific crminal law would be needed, however, outlawing this form of hacking.

The paragraph you quoted was about civil law claims though. It might have constituted an "unerlaubte handlung" resulting in damage to property, which could have been reason enough to recover damages. Since the damage was caused by the owner of the files himself though, i doubt there would be any chance of success under german law for that.

just wanted to clarify that.
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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 10:41   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida

However, in this case the only information accessed was information that was explicitly made available for the public.
I see your point of accessing information that was not 'meant' to be accessed even though its not secured, the entire point of this case however is that the information obtained could NEVER had been accessed had the person NOT shared his IRC folder. Thus, in Belgium this would not have been a crime either.

From what do you assume that he made the info specifically available to the public? The simple fact that the folder was set to share can hardly lead to that conclusion

Also your frequent comparison of this folder with a web page is faulty. When you put up a web page you publish it and are hence making it generally available. When the file is only in a shared folder the owner is basically leaving the door to them open, but not publicinsing them.
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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 12:28   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by hAl
Don't make us laugh as you are widely covered in the logs in the other cheating thread on this board. If it comes to a matchup between massive cheaters Titans is very hard to beat with their officers/commanders taking the lead themselfs.

Allthough to be fair the intell on the FAnG battlegroup was also a quite a coup. I remember one of our member being closed claiming his innocence in it. How they were hacked and all He might have better shut up about it or admitted his guilt cause he wasn't very believable then either. Well, he left us and is now a Madcows or Oly officer (BC) I believe. Kind of funny how Titans expose cheaters and VOM makes them officers. Amusing to say the least.

first of all yes i cheated round 6.
i quitted in that round as i couldn't play well enough after 4 family members of mine passed away.. my college got ****ed up and i simply couldn't care anymore. besides that i quitted very early that round, while i normally play every round i start till the end

secondly.. i wonder who was fang last round and got cheated and is now an oly officer.. did i miss something or is your intel just weird?

p.s. post took so long as i simply can't care about all your constant whining and bitching on these boards and never doing something usefull (to all AD spammers heh)
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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 12:43   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salomo

When you put up a web page you publish it and are hence making it generally available. When the file is only in a shared folder the owner is basically leaving the door to them open, but not publicinsing them.
Theres no difference, web page is nothing but a file in a folder.
An application like web server or windows share is needed to publish the files.
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Unread 15 Mar 2003, 13:02   #113
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Cant you people see that "share" and "publish" means exactly the same here?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 03:34   #114
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*rofl*

Seldom read so much of utterly Bull****, Parracida. Do u really think evryone else then dumb n00bs will believe ur tries to display TITAN as a fair alliance which played according to any rules?
Its true, that a couple of ppl gave out their login details. And ?
You call this cheating ? TITANS and especially LDK did it as well, you fcking now that, or do u really wanna tell me, that a player can be online 72 hours and more without sleeping mor then 2 hours in a row? We had just to newscan a planet and check, when he did launch, recall and traded....
Even Las Ketchup gave out his login details - slash had em - so what ?

It wasnt ok, no matter who did is, but especially the fact that ALL alliances shared logins on a certain scale and the factor, that planetarion still is a game let ur action appear on a VERY different light. You did NOT just access an internet page, you searched for a security leek on meddy`s computer, and got hold of private things, passwords and other stuff.

Just because you ARE ABLE TO steal cigarettes at a kiosk, you are still not allowed to.

You had no other chance in winning the last round, and u had way too less intel about FAnG.
THESE were the only reasons for u starting to search other ways to beat us, and unfortunatly you found one. Your interest in fair play had NOTHING to do with this, so stop the hypocrysis plz.

TITAN will always stay the lamest ally which ever played this game, and no matter how much self-pitying threads u post here, you have no right to call FAnG Cheaters while your ppl hacked our computers....

just a few questions: How many comps u needed to get acces to, until u found the info on meddy`s one ?
And how many kb of files u got hold of, which had NOTHING to do with this game ? Found some nice passwords of email accounts ? maybe some Loveletters ? Or photos ?

And did you EVER found any FAnGs doing this? hacking your sites, your servers or your computers ?

And are u really still proud of what you did ?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 03:52   #115
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Hey LEFF - FAnG LOST - ROFLROFLROFL.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 03:58   #116
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yes Ahriman..... the round we did loose, but not our pride
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 04:01   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by LEFF|pm
yup..... the round we did loose, but not our pride
So pride comes after a fall too?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 04:16   #118
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Well, you prolly wont know the meaning of 'Pride', and I wont waste my time explaing a TITAN, why he will never find any reasons to be proud of his alliance.

If you have anything intelligent to say, do so, but dont try to draw the attention away from a serious post by spamming it, just because its asked too much of you to reply to it.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 04:32   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by LEFF|pm
If you have anything intelligent to say, do so, but dont try to draw the attention away from a serious post by spamming it, just because its asked too much of you to reply to it.
I thought I was doing you a favour by drawing attention away from your tantrum. I apologise profusely and answer you by pointing out that if you wish an intelligent reply, you should read the damn thread before posting drivel that's already been covered.

I bet I'm prouder of my alliance than you are of yours
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 12:00   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by LEFF|pm
Righteous rant where I show you.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 12:32   #121
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LEFF, I'm not even going to reply to this, you've already got your opinions, no matter how wrong they are, maybe it's best for you to stay away from here for a long, long time.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 13:52   #122
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
LEFF, I'm not even going to reply to this, you've already got your opinions, no matter how wrong they are, maybe it's best for you to stay away from here for a long, long time.
hehe, I guess it was easier to give a reply like this, wasn't it scouse?

maybe we all should stay away from AD for a long long time, then again, it wouldn't be AD if we did.

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 14:08   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by ¤¤¤
You still accessed something that wasnt yours to access.
And as i read earlier in some post, titans hc cheated round 6,included hc. why werent they kicked or demoted?

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¤¤¤
That guy had shared that folder: meaning he lets others access it.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 14:10   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kjeldoran
hehe, I guess it was easier to give a reply like this, wasn't it scouse?

maybe we all should stay away from AD for a long long time, then again, it wouldn't be AD if we did.

rgds Kj
LEFF should stay away because at the moment he looks like a kid who lost his sweets. He's still bitter about last round, obviously. Anyone with half a brain can see that, so why should I bother wasting my time replying?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 14:23   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kjeldoran
hehe, I guess it was easier to give a reply like this, wasn't it scouse?
If he's so proud of FAnG he should either stop making an idiot of himself in public, or remove the FAnG tag to stop people associating that idiocy with FAnG.

Scouse in "looking after FAnG's best interests" scandal!
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 14:39   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
LEFF should stay away because at the moment he looks like a kid who lost his sweets. He's still bitter about last round, obviously. Anyone with half a brain can see that, so why should I bother wasting my time replying?
if there's 1 thing I'm sure about, it's that fact that he's less bittered about last round then any other person was and he surely is less a kid then you are.

Scouse, it's very easy to just say "ahh yes, he's bittered..."

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 14:41   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ahriman
If he's so proud of FAnG he should either stop making an idiot of himself in public, or remove the FAnG tag to stop people associating that idiocy with FAnG.
[/b]
wassup, going for the most idiotic expression of the year? Why the hell should leff remove his signature, so you'd be happy? He raized FAnG with me and the other HC's, I think we can fairly state that we are VERY proud on what we created, for the exact same reason why Scouse thinks Titans is holy, and I wouldn't expect anything less from Scouse.

damn that was a stupid reply ahri

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 14:44   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kjeldoran
wassup, going for the most idiotic expression of the year? Why the hell should leff remove his signature, so you'd be happy? He raized FAnG with me and the other HC's, I think we can fairly state that we are VERY proud on what we created, for the exact same reason why Scouse thinks Titans is holy, and I wouldn't expect anything less from Scouse.

damn that was a stupid reply ahri
I think you may have missed my point, Kj dearest
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 14:53   #129
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Kjeldoran, you must be reading a different thread to me. Look at his post, he's still upset about last round and is looking a tid bit foolish.

No wonder you two get on so well.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 15:07   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse

No wonder you two get on so well.
ya, and who's the kid now?

and scouse, may I ask a question? Why did globe (or whoever attained the logfiles) look on to other pple's pc's to find these logs? Where is the ethics in that?

And don't give me **** like "we thought you were cheating" etc, maybe because purely on skills and score you were nowhere near FAnG at that time in r8? (galscore and planetscore were there so there's no discussion about that fact)

nway, I don't expect you nor anyone of the winners to ever admit this so ...

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 15:20   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kjeldoran
And don't give me **** like "we thought you were cheating" etc, maybe because purely on skills and score you were nowhere near FAnG at that time in r8? (galscore and planetscore were there so there's no discussion about that fact)
Kj, you're so very proud of FAnG, I think everyone knows that, you're also quite proud that FAnG were ahead of Titans. I still can't quite fathom why you are so extremely proud of proven cheaters, most sane people would attempt to push them away from being identified with FAnG.

You say you don't consider it cheating, yet you signed up to R8 with the same rules as everyone else, as did the people whose accounts were closed - if you considered the rules to be wrong, then why did you even sign up to begin with?

My point above was that LEFF has made an idiot of himself posting that outburst, he really has. I'm not interested in what alliance he's a part of, but it's blatently obvious that he just doesn't have it in him to be a proper representative of his alliance. Yet again though we find that while a sane person would have him delete it, or try to seperate his views from becoming widely acknowledged as "FAnG's views," you continue to embrace this crippling aspect of FAnG.

Why exactly do you 'have it in' for FAnG's public image? You all claim to be proud, yet you all fall short of actually covetting the respect you all earnt by being great players (I'm ignoring the cheaters). You were and still are a respected alliance, yet you continue to bite chunks out of FAnG's respectability.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 15:56   #132
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Originally posted by Kjeldoran
and scouse, may I ask a question? Why did globe (or whoever attained the logfiles) look on to other pple's pc's to find these logs?
I have no idea. Globe was part of the intel team, we generally let them get on with their jobs without interfering.

Quote:
because purely on skills and score you were nowhere near FAnG at that time in r8? (galscore and planetscore were there so there's no discussion about that fact)
FAnG and Adelante were bigger than Titans/LDK after the first couple of weeks. Scanning roids and OB'ing farms was obviously your strong point. Then the real attacking started. The fact that FAnG, Adelante and ToT had a load more members than us probably gave them more chance of having some top planets after the scanning period.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 16:21   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
FAnG and Adelante were bigger than Titans/LDK after the first couple of weeks. Scanning roids and OB'ing farms was obviously your strong point. Then the real attacking started. The fact that FAnG, Adelante and ToT had a load more members than us probably gave them more chance of having some top planets after the scanning period.
get real, will you scouse. Whenever someone is better then you or titans, you just claim the either cheated or are farming. I'm talking PURELY about FAnG, not our allies. Clearly FAnG had the top spots, planets and galaxies. Also, we were at the top like weeks after the last pple did scan roids etc so don't give me this **** scouse.

I guess you really can't find an explanation, do you? You still haven't answered the question why titans chose that lame strategy, which is based on everything but skills and strength, to win the round. Cause clearly, without that you didn't had a chance.

in r7, when we didn't had tons of pple closed, we still had the better gals and players then titans, and we had the same allies and such ...

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 16:28   #134
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lol Ahri, I don't think I could find 5 lines in your reply that are even half correct.

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 16:31   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kjeldoran
lol Ahri, I don't think I could find 5 lines in your reply that are even half correct.
And I doubt you could read 1 line of anything I've said without misinterpretting it. Does that make us even?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 16:36   #136
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Originally posted by Ahriman
And I doubt you could read 1 line of anything I've said without misinterpretting it. Does that make us even?
no (look I missunderstood you again)

And plz, stop considering that I either don't understand you or that I'm some freaky creature not able to capture the common sence. Me and LEFF just have completely different ideas and views on this, and who are you to judge that whoever doesn't get yours is wrong?

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 16:55   #137
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Originally posted by Kjeldoran
And plz, stop considering that I either don't understand you or that I'm some freaky creature not able to capture the common sence. Me and LEFF just have completely different ideas and views on this, and who are you to judge that whoever doesn't get yours is wrong?
Great point , who are you to judge that the rules you signed up to play R8 by are wrong, and don't apply to your alliance? Who is LEFF to proclaim that Titans have nothing to be proud of?

The reason that I am of the opinion that you misinterpret most of my posts is that the vast majority are only there to get you to say even more self-contradictory things.

I don't care that your guy was silly enough to share his mirc folder, or that people are of the opinion that 'sharing' doesn't actually mean quite the same thing as 'sharing.' As I pointed out to Salomo I'm not really bothered that people want to slag off Titans - as far as I'm concerned it's a sign of success and the envy that brings. Just as it is for FAnG. I'm obviously not as fixated on just whose success was greater - because again, I don't care. I'm proud to have been a member of Titans and I had fun being there - that's what it was all about to me.

Does this give you a little more insight into my perspective? I don't need to get all angry and frustrated by all this because I'm perfectly secure in our magnificence, my only confusion is why you're insecure enough to care
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 17:24   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kjeldoran
in r7, when we didn't had tons of pple closed, we still had the better gals and players then titans, and we had the same allies and such ...

rgds Kj
Sorry I took so long to reply. On reading this I actually coughed up my lung and had to get it put back in asap.

Perhaps you could check the ranks during the round and at round end. You could also ask our joint allies who were 'better'.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 17:26   #139
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FAnG had more top planets (top30) then Titans at the start of the round. However, when looking at atlas you could see that the average score and roid count was near equal. Several days before the closings Titans was already ahead of FAnG in roidcount and definatly ahead in score.

No I didnt save the page, even if I had you'd just say the fang coords we had were wrong. I do know however that FAnG had more top 30 people whereas Titans was way more scattered between the top 50 and 250. It was similar to Round 6 when early on FLTV had most of the top 30 galaxies but still lost the round because the galaxies had no foundation to stand on from top 250 gals which were mostly XeTa/FoS.

Titans 'was' already winning, live with it. I've always said that fang was an alliance of a few people capable of getting a good planet (lets not go into 'how') and the rest was pretty much meat shields. FAnG never had the quality close to Titans, the only people who claim they did were fang, nobody in the entire universe has ever disputed the fact that Titans was the better alliance in every way imaginable.

And ofcourse everyone seems to forget that the cheating that took place might have had some positive effects for the planets. In short, the cheating planets were bigger then they should have been, does this not count in the final equasion? Were the closing not merely a 'correction' for the game balance?

Very early on in the round the average FAnG planet had about 200 roids more then the average Titan planet, by the time the accounts were closed the difference was eliminated, there is no way you can say that fang was winning the round. Any attempt to do so is just another excuse for failure.

I find it quite amusing though that the basis of your arguement relies on 'We would have won the round had we not been caught for cheating'.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 17:48   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida

Titans 'was' already winning, live with it. I've always said that fang was an alliance of a few people capable of getting a good planet (lets not go into 'how') and the rest was pretty much meat shields. FAnG never had the quality close to Titans, the only people who claim they did were fang, nobody in the entire universe has ever disputed the fact that Titans was the better alliance in every way imaginable.
haha, Titans never got near the quality FAnG had, we had the individual skills as players, which were like THAT much higher that I'd be ashamed if I were you.
We had the better gals and no way did you had more roids or score BEFORE those planets got closed.

Where do you claim you were better in r7? We had more tp players, more score, roids, better gals. there wasn't a SINGLE area where you could have beaten us to.

Same with r8, though the clever tactic, based on everything but skills or strength, made you end as the winner of a round that never ended seriously.

So to summorize all this

- FAnG r7 clearly owned Titans r7 in any way possible
- Titans won r8, a round that ended earlier then planned so ....
- FAnG r8 was bigger, better in any area then titans till those planets got closed.

my conclussion is that titans (which existed 1 round more so should infact have more experience) didn't do better then FAnG overall. Infact, they did less.

then again, you'll probably reply with the exact oposite and twist everything so it might look titans was better then FAnG, clearly even sane "neutral" person knows the reality, something you don't ...

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 17:52   #141
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
Perhaps you could check the ranks during the round and at round end. You could also ask our joint allies who were 'better'.
ahh yes, I'm sure all the allies titans had in r7 are VERY proud to have worked with you, yes. Aside from the fact that Fury ****ed you over big time AND succeeded while they needed 2 alliances (vts and virus) to hurt FAnG, which never really worked either.

I believe, looking at the total of roids and score, FAnG ended 4th of all alliances in r7 (Fury - VTS - Virus - THEN FAnG - then RaH or Tits, dunno)

thx, rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 17:56   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida

And ofcourse everyone seems to forget that the cheating that took place might have had some positive effects for the planets. In short, the cheating planets were bigger then they should have been, does this not count in the final equasion? Were the closing not merely a 'correction' for the game balance?
rofl, never thought you could be THAT naïve ...

Yes sure, due to account sharing they were like 500 times bigger then they should have been.

restoring the ballance? so let's say the titan planet is 1 mill big, and the fang is 1.5 mill. He gets deleted and what's the result?

titans: 1 mill
fang: 0

ahh yes, I see your math skills are superiour again cause I don't get the fact that CLOSING a planet and thus removing ALL his score makes it balanced again ...

good point parra, got some more of those?

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 17:57   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kjeldoran
stuff
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~~


I'm not even going to continue this discussion. Your mind is obviously warped.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 18:01   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~~


I'm not even going to continue this discussion. Your mind is obviously warped.
god I love pple proving my point without having a clue they just did ...

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 18:02   #145
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ARE YOU ACTUALLY SERIOUS KJEL?

STOP SMOKING THE HERB
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 18:04   #146
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god I love pple proving my point without having a clue they just did ...

rgds Kj
I think just about everything you said is wrong. I don't want to get into a "MY DADS BIGGER THAN YOUR DAD" type of discussion. Drop it. Ranks and everything prove you wrong.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 18:07   #147
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I think just about everything you said is wrong. I don't want to get into a "MY DADS BIGGER THAN YOUR DAD" type of discussion. Drop it. Ranks and everything prove you wrong.
whatever, you got your opinions and ideas, I got mine.

I agree we should drop this discussion

rgds Kj
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 19:06   #148
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Kjeldoran you cannot seriously believe that FAnG was comparable to alliances like Legion, Xanadu (LDK), Fury and Titans.

Let met make it crystal, FAnG was a second rate alliance that was made powerfull simply because there was a powervacuum after Xanadu and Legion stopped playing.

First rate alliances include: Xanadu, Legion, Titans and Fury.
Second rate alliances include: WP, Elysium, Virus, FAnG and ToT.
Third rate alliances include: hirr, SadCows, Flash etc.

People know this to be true, this is not an ongoing debate, it is a clear accepted reality in planetarion which nobody denies.
I am not 'joking' here, I'm not trying to annoy you, I'm simply stating a fact that is recognized, its not about 'our' opinions and 'your' opinions. Its 'your' opinion vs the reality that is accepted by the rest of planetarion. Making posts going 'hahahahahah that is so not true' does not change things, when people think back of alliance nobody will put Legion and FAnG on the same level just as people don't put Fury and Virus on the same level.

I'm sorry if I am going on and on here, but it seems like you need a 10,000 Volt reality shock here, and for once I am not trying to flame you (I didnt even call you 'kjel') but I am 100% serious in this statement.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 19:28   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida

First rate alliances include: Xanadu, Legion and Fury.
Second rate alliances include: WP, Elysium, Virus, FAnG, Titans and ToT.
Third rate alliances include: hirr, SadCows, Flash etc.
Just thought I'd correct you.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 19:35   #150
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Just thought I'd correct you.
If this was actually your opinion then you'd back it up, instead this can be filed as 'flame' and so given the respect it deserves.
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