Since it was asked for:

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Ahriman
If Allfather's logs aren't your evidence, Salomo, as suggested by your "nope" - what is?

From what do you assume I have any evidence? I'm not trying to prosecute you guys here, i've only asked some questions out of personal interest. Questions are usually asked to find things out. Now if i had evidence, would I need to ask any questions in regards to the cheating?

Originally posted by Ahriman
I think that Scouse probably sees you as anti-Titans because you are quite happy to suggest that Titans as an institution invested in cheating, which is simply not true. I'm sure Titans had proportionally as many account sharers as anyone else, perhaps we even had farmers. I can't honestly say I saw any evidence for anything of the sort in the Titans private channels or in any PM.

Please excuse my ignorance, but I don't know how many cheaters "anyone else" has. How many does "anyone else" have, and, actually more interesting and likelier for you to know/estimate, how many cheats (login sharing, farming) did titans aproximately have, and how many were known or strongly suspected by the Titans leadership?

Originally posted by Ahriman
So, while you might decry the accusation that you're anti-Titans, you're still quite clearly not interested in dispelling the notion that the alliance cheated, as opposed to individual members. If you actually wish to be taken seriously as a 'historian' of the community, then you really must try to use some sense.

Actually you are just assuming that i know either way whether the alliance or individuals cheated and could hence support or dispel one of these notions. Afaik i haven't accused anyone in this thread of cheating yet.

What you/scouse is doing is basically looking at the past, especially r6/7 when i was strongly disapointed with titans, remembering "ah, he wasn't too fond of titans back then", and assuming from this that I am attacking Titans again, while all i actually did was seeing an interesting issue in the other thread which Titans rightfully asked to be discussed in a seperate thread and open another thread to find out more. Now I'm no psychiatrist, but i would consider that comming close to paranoia.

Originally posted by Ahriman
I am quite aware that you mentioned 'individuals' but I'm sure that you're equally aware that continuing even to mention wholescale cheating as a part of your question will perpetuate the feeling that Titans did engage in it.

How would you have asked the initial question?

Originally posted by Ahriman
You have evidence of an individual Titan cheating in r6 by his own admittance, and nothing anyone has given has even hinted at an organised effort to cheat. The fact is that no cheating was ever forced on Titans members from the command structure, and no conspiracy to cheat was in effect while I was there. I can say this hand-on-heart.

Does that answer your question?

Yes, partly, thanks.

Perhaps I'm being a bit overly suspicious here, but you being the eloquent speaker that you are the word "force" instead of e.g. "support", "allow", "not act against" strikes me. So please allow me to ask a bit more specifically: Did you tolerate any cheats you knew about or strongly suspected (or that any reasonable thinking person would have strongly suspected regarding the evidence/hints)? (Or to use Parracidas phrase from another thread, did you at any point refuse to hack of one of your cheating hands because you didn't want to loose it?)

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by Salomo
Please excuse my ignorance, but I don't know how many cheaters "anyone else" has. How many does "anyone else" have, and, actually more interesting and likelier for you to know/estimate, how many cheats (login sharing, farming) did titans aproximately have, and how many were known or strongly suspected by the Titans leadership?

What I said was based on the presumption that many people in many galaxies will swap/have swapped login details in order to launch while they're out, or check on an attack while they're at an all you can eat resteraunt. People cheat. I'm not willing to say that I know absolutely and unconditionally that no Titan ever cheated. I don't.

Originally posted by Salomo
What you/scouse is doing is basically looking at the past, especially r6/7 when i was strongly disapointed with titans, remembering "ah, he wasn't too fond of titans back then", and assuming from this that I am attacking Titans again, while all i actually did was seeing an interesting issue in the other thread which Titans rightfully asked to be discussed in a seperate thread and open another thread to find out more. Now I'm no psychiatrist, but i would consider that comming close to paranoia.

I can't speak for Scouse here, but I'm certainly not taking into account whatever opinions you expressed towards Titans in round 6, as a matter of fact I was a member Elysium then, and if anything still partly anti-Titans due to their membership of VtS in r5. So I'm not assuming that you're anti-Titans because of your history, but because of the way you phrased your posts in this thread. Perhaps I'm reading too much into the construction of your questions, but my point here is that I'm not as sensitive to accusations of Titans integrity as others seem to be. I know what a great alliance Titans was to be a part of, I know there was no organised cheating and I know that despite attacks on the integrity of the alliance, they can't counteract the fact that Titans was respected, feared, and will be remembered - at the end of the day I'm quite pleased enough to have been a part of it and not particularly fazed by any anti-Titans mentality. Perhaps you think I'm sensitive because of my attacks on Allfather, but I assure you, I would think ill of him whatever group of people he did that to, enemy, ally or Titans. So in my opinion, if my post was at all paranoid, the paranoia is entirely disconnected with Titans and focussed on the way you phrased your questions.

Originally posted by Salomo
I hope you see that I'm not attacking you for your position concerning Titans, but your innadequate method and lack of forethought.

Yes, I see that you're trying to attack what I said based on your assumption that I cared either who you were or what you thought in r6, which is a mistake.

Originally posted by Salomo
How would you have asked the initial question?

You might have merely asked "Would any Titans members like to come forward and describe any cheating perpetrated by Titans members which they encountered while members themselves?" This lacks the implication that Titans engaged in organised cheating, and encapsulates what you were after. My answer to that question would have been; "I was a Titans member and encountered no cheating by any Titans member during my membership."

Originally posted by Salomo
Perhaps I'm being a bit overly suspicious here, but you being the eloquent speaker that you are the word "force" instead of e.g. "support", "allow", "not act against" strikes me. So please allow me to ask a bit more specifically: Did you tolerate any cheats you knew about or strongly suspected (or that any reasonable thinking person would have strongly suspected regarding the evidence/hints)? (Or to use Parracidas phrase from another thread, did you at any point refuse to hack of one of your cheating hands because you didn't want to loose it?)

It looks like I'm not the only one with paranoia where sentence construction is concerned

As I said, I am not aware of any cheating whatsoever within Titans. Not once was I asked to launch for someone or volunteered other members my login information. I'm not aware of any instance where Titans command ignored cheating, either; whether it be for the benefit of rank or saving face it just didn't happen to my knowledge.

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Ahriman

Yes, I see that you're trying to attack what I said based on your assumption that I cared either who you were or what you thought in r6, which is a mistake.

i'm a little stoned right now so i wont reply to the rest at thisb point, just this one thing: actually that part you quoted there was a messed up quote from me. That was text from your original post that slipped out of the quote marks.

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by Salomo
i'm a little stoned right now so i wont reply to the rest at thisb point, just this one thing: actually that part you quoted there was a messed up quote from me. That was text from your original post that slipped out of the quote marks.

Oh ok, I thought it was one of those "I'll cunningly take what you said and turn it right around against you!" things. So I thought "Aha! I know exactly how to put him down for this!"

But now you ruined it