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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 20:18   #1
Ahriman
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Block War: Episode V

You could probably debate the title, but it would truly be a complete waste of time

I think we might have finally gotten over the 'blocks are bad' topic, or at least resigned ourselves to the fact that blocks won't ever leave the game. I know that there are those who think that we might still be freed of this truly horrible facet of PA life, but you're kidding yourselves.

What I'm interested in is really the option of much more blocking. I'm not talking about an incredibly equal 3 way split of blocks who'll have constant war throughout the round, but instead of the possibility of a large number of smaller alliances banding together so that they're in a position to challenge whatever blocks are in existance during the round.

A slight problem, it seems, is that there aren't so many small alliances around these days... might just have something to do with the rather small amount of new players signing up... just maybe. But perhaps I'm wrong.

Are there still a number of 'newbie' alliances in existance? Taking into account that a 'newbie' block would need a whole lot more players than the largest 'elite' block in order to be a challenge, would this be a possibility? Regardless of all this, would reality step in where it comes to the diplomatic skill involved in block creation to confound any such attempt?

(Will r10 be free? No manufactured situation in block politics could possibly rival the beneficial impact of a free round.)
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 22:59   #2
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Something important to remeber is that as long as there are reasonably even sized opposition blocks, even a block low in power can have alot of importance and hold political power. THe problems of the past have come when one block was much stronger than the other, or after one competing block has won a war versus another. Smaller blocks and even just smaller alliances can both get involved and probably do a world of good before one of those two conditions occurs.

In the past smaller alliances have taken 1 of 3 courses. First many opt to stay out of block issues. In this case they tend to have alot of freedom early in a round, but once a situation where the blocks are no longer competitive occurs they tend to get crushed under the weight of a stagnation also these alliances have very little effect on how things go. The second common choice of the past was to join a block and be used by it and be totally loyal to it. In this case the smaller alliance becomes a deputy of sorts to a larger alliance, and basically just adds numbers to one side having no other influence on the overall politics. In some cases this results in a smaller alliance in a winning block being able to grow and look good, or it results in being in the losing side and usually being the first casualty of a war. Its a gamble many alliances opt to take. The third option commonly persued by smaller alliancs in the past was to form a smaller neutral block. In this scenario the alliance has alot of freedom over thier fate, and more influence that going it alone, but neutral blocks in the past, other than the notable exception in rd 6, tend to not have the power to be very effective on the large scale politics, though they do tend to be the top of the lower level of things. Also, neutral blocks are often maneuvered by larger blocks into positions to be used to boost a side in a block war.

The best political situation for a round is to have more than two powerful blocks with everyone looking out for themselves and a good fluidity of alliances and block goals. This way things can shift back and forth, there can be more interesting political options and things are much more fun. The problem in the past has been block polarization, two sides, grudges, no one is willing to move sides because of propaganda and historical mistrust.

In a universe with fluid politics, a smaller block can be very influential. And hopefully that is what we are looking at for the next round. THere is nothing wrong with block politics, there is just somehting wrong with boring block politics.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 23:25   #3
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K-W explained it correctly so there is nothing much to say and btw Ahriman there are at least 12 alliances left not directly connected to any of the 3 blocks discussed on this forum most.

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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 00:21   #4
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Talking

heh


'12'

so you're trying to say that you made a list of alliances that aren't in any block (yet) or something?
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 00:23   #5
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No, I just thought for about two minutes and came to 12. So probably there are more.

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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 01:31   #6
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Greed.. mate.. Greed.

They wanna win the round. Via the easiest route, that is more often than not a less interesting way.

However we could be wrong, perhaps r9 will be a fantastic round?

-Necro
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 02:47   #7
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A lot of good will be done in this game when a large amount of people have figured out the difference between blocks and healthy inter-alliance relationships. There is nothing wrong with coalitions. There is something wrong with basically turning 4 alliances into the functioning equivelant of one alliance.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 02:56   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by K-W
There is nothing wrong with coalitions. There is something wrong with basically turning 4 alliances into the functioning equivelant of one alliance.
My thoughts exactly
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 03:11   #9
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Originally posted by Teh_Necro
However we could be wrong, perhaps r9 will be a fantastic round?

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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 12:23   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Allfather
Are not the people who were most against blocking in "command" in one of the blocks?.

And the "we did it cause they did" excuses are still highly amusing
Hmm... I didn't expect such a post from you...

We all know and noone will change that fact. Everyone looks after himself first! So why stress that again?

/me agrees to what K-W said

Only because you don't hear much about the medium and small
-sized alliances doesn't mean they don't play.
Not everyone does need an ego boost and announces their plans for the new round telling how good and l33t they are and how much they will win. (or keeps whining on the boards how overwhelming the opposition is :-) )

I am sure there are a few more small 'groups' (like Zenith) who have formed and are ready to enjoy R9. I don't think that all merged though hehe.

Let's wait for R9 to start.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 12:37   #11
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People agree with Germania?!?!?!?

Congrats Germ! The circle is now complete...
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 14:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by yupster
Are you playing? If so, it wont be...
I..

R...

A...

C
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 14:59   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zh|l
People agree with Germania?!?!?!?

Congrats Germ! The circle is now complete...
People are bothering to read it now that im not a moutpiece for evil.

At least thats my theory.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 15:10   #14
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Are you playing? If so, it wont be...
Funny comming from u.....
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 15:28   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by K-W
People are bothering to read it now that im not a moutpiece for evil.
Actually, in the past everything you said has been propaganda and, of course, you were a complete twat that only ever said anything to benefit your alliance and your allies.*

Now, you're not. So maybe, just maybe, you are talking sense.


* Add a pinch of sarcasm.

(And I do believe I suffered the same thing)
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 15:35   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
Actually, in the past everything you said has been propaganda and, of course, you were a complete twat that only ever said anything to benefit your alliance and your allies.*

Now, you're not. So maybe, just maybe, you are talking sense.


* Add a pinch of sarcasm.

(And I do believe I suffered the same thing)
no, actually, you're both still twats. sorry.

*grin*
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 15:43   #17
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Blocks are here to stay, but powerblocks aren't. The game will soon be free and then we'll see lots and lots of new ppl joining the game. With about 15k+ planets in the universe its simply not posible to powerblock.

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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 15:48   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by cbk100
Blocks are here to stay, but powerblocks aren't. The game will soon be free and then we'll see lots and lots of new ppl joining the game. With about 15k+ planets in the universe its simply not posible to powerblock.

cbk
That's rock stupid.

First, where do you get the "will soon be free" thing from? No statements to that effect have been made by the neo-Creators.

Second, powerblocking damn well can exist in a large universe. You don't call the Triad from R3 a powerblock? VeX from R4? Even in R5, there were 20K players or so, and there was NoCeX and WTF/VE. Powerblocking will always have the potential to exist. Whether it happens or not is determined by how afraid alliances are of each other, and how determined they are to win.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 15:54   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
That's rock stupid.

First, where do you get the "will soon be free" thing from? No statements to that effect have been made by the neo-Creators.

Second, powerblocking damn well can exist in a large universe. You don't call the Triad from R3 a powerblock? VeX from R4? Even in R5, there were 20K players or so, and there was NoCeX and WTF/VE. Powerblocking will always have the potential to exist. Whether it happens or not is determined by how afraid alliances are of each other, and how determined they are to win.
The round will soon be free and that is a promise. Maybe you say that I can't tell for sure and maybe I can't, but either r10 is free or PA is dead so I think they will chose to make it free...

And no I will not call any of those blocks for powerblocks cause they could be dealt with and ppl still had a chance to survive.

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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 15:54   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
That's rock stupid.

First, where do you get the "will soon be free" thing from? No statements to that effect have been made by the neo-Creators.

Second, powerblocking damn well can exist in a large universe. You don't call the Triad from R3 a powerblock? VeX from R4? Even in R5, there were 20K players or so, and there was NoCeX and WTF/VE. Powerblocking will always have the potential to exist. Whether it happens or not is determined by how afraid alliances are of each other, and how determined they are to win.
Well... imagine only 1k of thoose 15k is pro-blocking or something.. the rest is new guys.. Might see new alliances from other games moving over etc...
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 16:37   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by cbk100
The round will soon be free and that is a promise. Maybe you say that I can't tell for sure and maybe I can't, but either r10 is free or PA is dead so I think they will chose to make it free...

And no I will not call any of those blocks for powerblocks cause they could be dealt with and ppl still had a chance to survive.

cbk
heh..ur partly rite.... It will die if it doesnt go free again... But sorry to burst ur bubble; it wont go free so it will die....
I honestly thought they had the brains and resources to make this round free and round 10 P2P instead... But no...
Its quite silly as it would pay itself back wiv interest; wiv making it free this round u could and most prolly would get a large influx of new plrs.. And knowing pa they prolly would get hooked and pay for the next round.... Instead they do another p2p round and it will be the smallest uni thus far in pa.. Its sad really but the way I see it pa is dying and fast.. And its not the powerblocks fault, they have always been around (arguably not in r1..)..i.e STEL (Sedition, TE, Elysium, LOST), RB/Legion/Fury etc etc back in the days...

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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 16:40   #22
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It wont die.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 16:41   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Allfather
a max of 1000 players for round 9, 200 will prolly be farms/support planets or multies.

2-300 in one block,the same in the other..
should be intresting for the players,heh
Wanna take me up on a bet, Allfather?
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 16:45   #24
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It wont die.
Gimme an explanation as to why WooKie ? ;p
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 17:03   #25
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I'm pretty sure in round 10 free planets will be available, to some degree. Whether all are free or just disadvantaged ones is yet to be seen.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 17:06   #26
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p2p this round is stupitity in my oppinion too but that was how they chosed to do it and not much to do about that.

I'm still 100% sure that we will see free planets for r10...

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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 17:08   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Allfather
a max of 1000 players for round 9, 200 will prolly be farms/support planets or multies.

2-300 in one block,the same in the other..
should be intresting for the players,heh
judging from the poll which is going on at the portal atm we can expect about 3k players for r9.

"How would you prefer to play for R9?" (I think it's supposed to be pay, not play)

anyways... 3390 votes

my guess is atleast 2500 players (payers) next round.

One more thing, if that's only the payers we'll see even more players as in people paying for others etc.

I hope.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 17:12   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by cbk100
p2p this round is stupitity in my oppinion too but that was how they chosed to do it and not much to do about that.

I'm still 100% sure that we will see free planets for r10...

cbk
Free limited accounts perhaps... Free accounts period ? nae..

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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 18:08   #29
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The game will never be free again.

There will probably be limited free accounts again, but it won't be free ala r1-3 again.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 18:48   #30
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haha, I was just thinking the same.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 18:53   #31
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I'll be 23 in May actually.

"Aging gracefully"
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 19:00   #32
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radioface ahoy!
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 20:54   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Allfather
[offtopic]
How old are you anyways?, i thought you were about 20ish,but when i see this , you look 15ish
[/offtopic]
From that distance he could be aged anywhere between 15 and 35 (maybe I should run a lower resolution :\). You're still a surprisingly scary bald man though Af, and yet you're so cute and fuzzy online...

On-topic.
I'm quite out of touch with the lower spectrum of alliances (yes, I'm bored of being diplomatic about that), so it doesn't surprise me to find that I am entirely ignorant of a load of alliances, hAl.

It would be a great shame in my opinion if, as Cochese says, we will never have another free round of PA; actually it seems rather like commercial suicide as the player base is already quite stagnated (says me, in a top, blocked alliance, not having any idea about smaller, less high profile alliances ). I wonder what the logic behind it is.

I'm still trying to adjust to a non-Furry Germania, so you'll have to excuse my lack of decent response (plus Buffy's on in a couple of minutes, so I have some serious perving infringing on my timetable).
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 21:16   #34
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Originally posted by Scouse
Actually, in the past everything you said has been propaganda and, of course, you were a complete twat that only ever said anything to benefit your alliance and your allies.*

Now, you're not. So maybe, just maybe, you are talking sense.


* Add a pinch of sarcasm.

(And I do believe I suffered the same thing)
Im sure everyone did. The fun part is when people outside your alliance think your posting propaganda for your alliance and hate you, while at the same time, people in your alliance think you are posting things that hurt your alliance and get pissed at you.

On Topic

If the internet economy picks up, or if the people running PA manage to make some clever and shrewd business deals, then its possible we will see another free round.

I think limited freebies is a mixed bag. Sure you do give some new people a chance, but that is very limited, meanwhile youve got multi scan/farm planets up the wazzoo. You have this problem with 100% free rounds, but with 100% free you hopefully can draw a big enough universe to balance that out.

rd 1 is a model of general uselessness to PA. Even a totally free, totally random round wouldnt end up like rd 1.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 21:57   #35
Teh_Necro
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An idea would be perhaps to add a free race?

With 4 additional, eliter races beinga valaible for players who pay. Dunno if this will meet the demand for profits however. Not sure just an idea *shrugs*.

Anyways, if round 10 doesn't hit around 15k players then pa is gonna be another flop, and i don't see that happening with p2p only. So i'm hoping cbk is correct.

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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 23:18   #36
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cant afford to make it free cant afford to not ...
best suggestion i can think of is to treat it like a normal game you dl demo of the game it only had 1 round/level/fight on it so you have to buy the game if you want ot do the rest of the game. Cap all planets to 1mil score until they pay although there would be alot of multi scan/farming off first there would be enough new blood around to hit those scan/farms too hopefully but its the only oppurtunity ya really have plus farmers can always be reported.
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Unread 7 Feb 2003, 01:10   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sn0w
cant afford to make it free cant afford to not ...
best suggestion i can think of is to treat it like a normal game you dl demo of the game it only had 1 round/level/fight on it so you have to buy the game if you want ot do the rest of the game. Cap all planets to 1mil score until they pay although there would be alot of multi scan/farming off first there would be enough new blood around to hit those scan/farms too hopefully but its the only oppurtunity ya really have plus farmers can always be reported.
Aye, but didn't they do that in r6?

If multi abuse was the only opposition to this method well, my only reply would be:

We've had 8 rounds of multiing, its a fact of the game, something we live with, be it farming, scanning etc. I'd much prefer an extra 10k free planets, even if 20% of those were multi's.

-Necro
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Unread 7 Feb 2003, 01:17   #38
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good point necro .. but if they cant afford to make it fully free since theres no way they would get the backing for a 3month fully non paid round of full cost even though we know its the only way to bring it back to its former glory
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Unread 7 Feb 2003, 05:11   #39
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blocking and the fluid nature of relations between alliances is heart and soul of this game really. we all were brought here by friends and groups of friends. it's the maneuvers of these groups that provide the international scope and competitive nature that keeps me returning to this game round after round. unfortunately, with the declining membership since p2p, these groups become less fluid and instead of the wide variety of players that originally kept us here we see an often begrudged and cynical seasoned veteran who is many times already set in their ways. they have friends and they have enemies. they have wrong's that need righting and payback to serve. there's the ultimate stagnation... not the stagnation of the universe, but the stagnation of the players themselves.

i love the idea of massive numbers of smaller blocks of players, fluidly changing their relations and politics to position themselves better in the universe. but everyone knows that success in PA is defined by exponential growth and that the universe precipitates out based on luck, numbers, experience, connections, and consistency. this makes the universe about an inch wide and a mile deep (or 1.6 km for you euro's ) since there's a really limited number of ways to achieve success and there is a huge gap between the top players and the average player. we would need to find a balance that created a universe that was a mile wide and an inch think, with a wide variety of ways to realize success as well as a feasible, skill-based way to orchestrate a meaningful shift in rank.

off topic:
maybe the creators could pull off a free round10 by offering a lifetime membership to PA for a donation of say 40$US. Maybe 1000 people would fall for it, thereby making $40,000 in a single shot. Then have a free round10 and charge for all subsequent rounds. i dunno, maybe i'm smoking too much these days, but perhaps those 1000 lifetime members would then place more of a stake in attracting new paying members and keeping this community evolving and growing.
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Unread 7 Feb 2003, 06:45   #40
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that or they could sell shares of pa :/
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Unread 7 Feb 2003, 08:06   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by mens
judging from the poll which is going on at the portal atm we can expect about 3k players for r9.

"How would you prefer to play for R9?" (I think it's supposed to be pay, not play)

anyways... 3390 votes

my guess is atleast 2500 players (payers) next round.

One more thing, if that's only the payers we'll see even more players as in people paying for others etc.

I hope.
I personally am buying 5 accounts, more if its needed
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Unread 7 Feb 2003, 08:06   #42
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Talking

Well...I guess wonders will never cease...

I have just read 3 of some of the most well thought & constructive posts on the whole "Power Blocking" discussion ever made...

There was a time when in the early rounds of PA that the term Power Blocking didn't exist...that the cohesive efforts of a few alliances were used to hit hard on a common enemy & this was readily accepted by all...

Power Blocking has come to the limelight in recent rounds as the sheer size & level of skill that is exhibited in the "l33t" alliances directly reflect the size of the wars that they inevitably participate in...

The "l33t" alliances are not the only ones that employ such a strategy in the attempt to win the war against their enemy...there are many small not so "publicised" alliances that co-ordinate their efforts in an attempt to win their own wars...these wars are fought with the same amount of fervour that is plastered all over the boards by the larger more infamous alliances...

So my point being...

The size of Power Blocks are emphasized by the smaller community base that now exists...

I have seen many of those protesting about the Power Blocks are indeed themselves members of some of the blocking alliances...

Is there a chance that the existing Power Block will stagnate the round...yes...of course there is...but, if a shift of focus is acheived by the smaller alliances from fighting amoungst themselves & focus on hitting even just ONE of the alliances in a Power Block, the tide could turn...

There has been the assumption that each Power Block will focus their energy on the dominant opposing Power Block, but by throwing a rogue alliance into the mix, means a "l33t" alliance can not just focus its defence or attacks on who they consider to be their main enemy...all of a sudden there is an uncalculated factor in the battle...

But hey...who knows...if there is one thing I do know...you cannot predict everything in life...most of the time you just have to go along for the ride...



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Unread 7 Feb 2003, 15:05   #43
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heh, Subatoi that was a fantasticly accurate post. It hit the nail right on the head. It's just admitted what most of us suffer in denial with i guess.

PA was something fantastic, still is in many ways, but its the hope in reliving that former glory and fun that keeps many of us ticking.

I like the idea of lifetime membership, i'd certainly pay £50 if r10 is free, so long as i get r11, r12 and so on for free.
-Necro
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Unread 7 Feb 2003, 23:03   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sn0w
that or they could sell shares of pa :/
hehe, with the way technology shares are going these days, not so sure how well PA shares would float we'd probably ended up owing them money after the whole thing was thru... but a donation disguised as a lifetime membership could sell. then again, i don't know how much money they need to keep PA running :P
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Unread 8 Feb 2003, 10:31   #45
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the Gaming industry have done well all the time and have not gone in the steps of the more volital tech industry.
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Unread 19 Feb 2003, 11:25   #46
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why r we all talking about PowerBlocks arent fun.

that is just what is fun in this game. we all love the politics of the alliances.

Just dont say it eanymore and just fight till the end
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Unread 19 Feb 2003, 13:28   #47
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Wake up.

None of you have seen whats in store for R10, so why are you talking about old fashioned powerblocks?

You have one more round of powerblocking, R9, thats it. We then move on to bigger and better things.

A "free round ten"? Someone has been smoking too much.

Last edited by dlpsycho; 19 Feb 2003 at 13:33.
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Unread 19 Feb 2003, 14:34   #48
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Actually no one was talking about it, you two geniuses bumped the thread.
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Unread 19 Feb 2003, 17:19   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheACE
why r we all talking about PowerBlocks arent fun.

that is just what is fun in this game. we all love the politics of the alliances.

Just dont say it eanymore and just fight till the end
When I started playing Planetarion in r5, the thing that I found so intresting to play next round was the politics of the game. Politics are a huge part of the game, I just want groups to be fair.
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Unread 19 Feb 2003, 17:33   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by RooKie
When I started playing Planetarion in r5, the thing that I found so intresting to play next round was the politics of the game. Politics are a huge part of the game, I just want groups to be fair.
Exactly, the game in itslef is hardly enough reason to pay.
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