Best Roiding Fleet?

[The_Fish]

We've had a couple of similar threads, I've been thinking about this for a while and now seems the right time to post it. If you could any 4 ships for roiding, what would they be and why?

Clippers/Pegs/Tula/Demeter

or

BW/Cutter/Chim/Pod

I cant decide between them 2, I think I'd go for the fr fleet, roiding caths with this shouldnt be too hard, as long as they dont have guardians

[Gerbie]

beetle, vulture, roach, sentinel

Freezes your opponent (most efficient) and kills what it doesn't freeze at T1 and T2 (except Bs), has a good scare factor. It has a low eta and you can make two fleets of same size one with the sentinels and one without.

commenting on the first fleet:
Clip/peg/tula/dem leaves you open to pulsar/sentinel fire: bad option in the current universe, will make roiding very expensive. Not to mention what corsair/brigs can do. You might have success on a cathaar, but roidfat cathaar are scarce.


2nd fleet:
Combining bw, apods (soft chin) and cutter/chimera (good armor) is not a bright idea imo. If you get fighter defence you will encounter significant losses before the cutters even fire. BW and chimera's target the same ships (Fr). Freezing the fr is more efficient, but to make use of the chimera's T2 and T3 you will have to kill the frigs as well. Chimera's fire before cutters so the T3 will be targetted at the fighters as well, before the cutter gets to fire.

[das_experiment]

Beetle\Roach\Vult\sentinel as gerbie said

[MrPubes]

Clipper/Pegasi/Demeter/Buccaneers

[cypher]

depends in what kind of universe....

small uni

beetle/sent/vult/roach

normal kinda biggish uni

clipper/pegasus/demeter/rogue

huge uni

guardian/mantis/tula/some other bs or cruiser:P

[at0mic.c0w]

Originally posted by MrPubes
Clipper/Pegasi/Demeter/Buccaneers

it's a sweet roiding fleet indeed.

[cepe]

the one that gets escorted at all times..?

[Rimmer]

Playing as a heavy cath this round
using
CR only or CR/BS
to attack with,
most of my targets find it hard to get defence to cover the amount of the higher classes enoungh.
the only thing that annoys me this round which has never before is pds.
with most of my targets having 500plus pulse cannons or hydron turrents they generally now discourge me.
but everything else is easy enough.

[-QS-]

cutlass/beetle/pulsar and roach/vulture/thief

fast roiding fleet, tracking all but BS.

cutlass/beetle against FI and FI-def
Thief to scare away CO
pulsar are sweet on FR
roach r0ck CR/DE

I wouldnt say the ziko/terra DE ist best, cause it doesnt directly aim FR and the eta is +1 compared to CO.
If I´d go for DE-fleet, which is very sweet as well, it`ll look like that:

WM/Clipper/Bucs/ Demeter


/the most realistic DE-roiding fleet tho is pegs/dem as terra or clipper/bucs/pegs/dem. main prob is that u dont gain as much pegs as u need to be really really great on any target....

[Bongdage]

WM/Demeter/Bucc/Clipper for de
beetle/roach/vult/sent for co
pod/cutter/bw/ and either chim or marauder, but i spose chim for its de targeting purpose
Tula/mantis/guardian/scorp probly, was a toss up between scorpians or dragons tho

[MAdnRisKy]

all fr fleets should have broadswords in them, WHY for the love of GOD, do people seemingly forget all the top notch xan fr. Lancers btw, kill de better than chims, and then hit cr afterwards anyway so couple those with cutters and bw and you have a pwnage fr fleet.

[-QS-]

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
all fr fleets should have broadswords in them, WHY for the love of GOD, do people seemingly forget all the top notch xan fr. Lancers btw, kill de better than chims, and then hit cr afterwards anyway so couple those with cutters and bw and you have a pwnage fr fleet.

u mixed the lancer and broadies a bit

A perfect FR-fleet to me would be Cutter/BW/Lancer (only for DE-target, not because they rock)/ broadies and pods ofc...
Tho these are so many ships... :/

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
all fr fleets should have broadswords in them, WHY for the love of GOD, do people seemingly forget all the top notch xan fr. Lancers btw, kill de better than chims, and then hit cr afterwards anyway so couple those with cutters and bw and you have a pwnage fr fleet.

Lancer's T1 = DE T2 = FR
Broadsword's T1 = CR T2 = BA

people ignore the FR alot more cos they have no anti-FI backup. Imo Broadswords should be built by every xan to defend against Wyvern and CR fleets (obviously not at home planet - sents do that).

[The_Fish]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie
Lancer's T1 = DE T2 = FR
Broadsword's T1 = CR T2 = BA

people ignore the FR alot more cos they have no anti-FI backup. Imo Broadswords should be built by every xan to defend against Wyvern and CR fleets (obviously not at home planet - sents do that).

why defend against Wyverns with fr? get some in gal dragons etc or get a ****load of fi to stop the pegs, then the wyverns dont touch you.

[Silva baby]

vults, thiefs, corsairs, roaches

no idea y thiefs, might change that to beetles but yeh corsairs target nearly anything, cheaper flak out the the co classes effectively in large #'s, nto to mention hit 3 targets. Roaches to freeze the larger classes such as pegs and cr, thiefs cause they absolutly pown xan of the same type of fleet score.

[Gerbie]

Corsairs and roaches are not a good combination.
Your fleet has only corsairs to hit frigs. Corsairs will then have to eat through frozen Cr/De before getting to hit those. Freezing them first is double. And the corsair is not that effective it can get even close to the frigs. The flak function of the corsair is rather useless as most of the ships you want flak for can be more efficiently frozen with roaches. And roaches don't really need flak, they are pretty good by themselves.

[CrazyConrad]

Originally posted by Gerbie
Corsairs and roaches are not a good combination.
Your fleet has only corsairs to hit frigs. Corsairs will then have to eat through frozen Cr/De before getting to hit those. Freezing them first is double. And the corsair is not that effective it can get even close to the frigs. The flak function of the corsair is rather useless as most of the ships you want flak for can be more efficiently frozen with roaches. And roaches don't really need flak, they are pretty good by themselves.

Yeah, even if you freeze all targets pegs forex. your corsais still fires at them before the chims if you meet a peg/chim combo with corsairs/roach combo.

Would be better if your ships could fire at the unfrozen ships first and the go back to frozen ships if the others are destroyed etc...

[SpazMonster]

Vsh, Pulsar, roach, vulture - This would be complete ownage.. Low eta, pure carnage. Scary as heck to see coming at you. What doesn't get killed gets frozen. On top of that the roaches are armor pigs and the emp resistance is huge. Not only are you killing like a mofo, but your pods are flakked by the ultimate corvette. First choice I'm going to argue against beetles because they have no T2 so are very limited in their functionality. They don't really fill a role in a limited ship fleet.

Cutter, bw, broadsword, pod - This fleet would be difficult to deal with too. Lots of armor, lots of firepower, targets everything but de (which you don't really need anyway), but doesn't have the low eta advantage.

peg, clipper, bucc, demeter - Utterly difficult to deal with here other than the ETA. Targets everything and targets it well.


Just to throw a crazy thought out there as well:

Vsh, Corsair, phoenix, vulture <- think about it..

[Gerbie]

hmm indd, vsharrak/corsair seems like a nice combo.

nice one

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie
Lancer's T1 = DE T2 = FR
Broadsword's T1 = CR T2 = BA

people ignore the FR alot more cos they have no anti-FI backup. Imo Broadswords should be built by every xan to defend against Wyvern and CR fleets (obviously not at home planet - sents do that).

that was round 8, rnd 9 it reverted back to cr (or actually I think it was rnd 7 it changed to fr as t2 from cr, and rnd 8 it changed back, EITHER way if you go look you'll see it'ts CR not FR as t2 on the lancer this round).

and btw, you can't leave out a de killer for an fr fleet because of easy clipper defence, so there deven !

(ps use scarabs over phx btw, better armour emp res and efficiency plus they're godly against cat).

anyway, the BEST fleet for a co one is roach thief vsh and vult. Yes it doesn't hit fr, no I don't care I'll go steal what I want and avoid zik (lousy targets anyway), but HOW you can build a co fleet and not put thieves in is behond me, they're one of the best ships in the game :/

[SpazMonster]

Ok then, with MAd's suggestion:

Vsh + Corsair + scarab + vulture

What can't you attack with this?

This would be a nearly impossible to stop fleet.


I think your love for the thief is clouding your judgement MAd.. I don't think teh redundant targeting is neccessary.

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally posted by SpazMonster
Ok then, with MAd's suggestion:

Vsh + Corsair + scarab + vulture

What can't you attack with this?

This would be a nearly impossible to stop fleet.


I think your love for the thief is clouding your judgement MAd.. I don't think teh redundant targeting is neccessary.

BUT BUT BUT.........

they're the aces are my pretties, my aces in the hole *sniff*

[MAdnRisKy]

Right I've had a wee wee and a little thought, and by jove I've got it!

thieves bettles vults. and frankly I don't care about the rest heh, you can add brigs i guess for covering the rest. But who would give a damn, you'd hit xan all day long, the M to C ratio's even work out, and I could roid forever and a day with that fleet, sure terrans might like to hit me but they're slow, and you see this face? this is my bothered face! I have thieves!!!!! they're like, a million years more fun than any other ship i have ever used. You're sat behind your screen, rubbing your hands together, looking at all these targets, not because of their roids, but because of all the pretty ships you're scribbling down onto your shopping list. You're calcing your targets, not for 15% cap, but for the most possible number of roaches you can lift from this juicy naive cat who has bugger all CO protection against a zik, (but has pleanty for a xan). Or you're looking at this xan target, and thinking, yeah ok it hurts, but damnit I steal ALL his CO tick 1 he's so going to be crying when I land!

THIEVES OWN!!!!!!!!

[Gerbie]

Originally posted by SpazMonster
Ok then, with MAd's suggestion:

Vsh + Corsair + scarab + vulture

What can't you attack with this?

This would be a nearly impossible to stop fleet.

Any decent terran can really hurt this fleet. Corsairs are not efficient in killing them. If a terran exchanges his harpies for other ships then it's simply pegs(+) vs. corsairs.
Any cathaar should build Guardians, which btw you can't hit.
Any xan should build mainly vark/sentinel: all of his ships hit you (except a handfull of blocked corvettes) while only 1 of your ships can do damage to him. Some xan build dreadnoughts, which will not flee.
zik: see terran for De fleet, fi/co fleet will also do a lot of damage. ziks can build ManOWars which have no reason to flee.

It takes only little defence to defend against this fleet.

[SpazMonster]

Originally posted by Gerbie
Any decent terran can really hurt this fleet. Corsairs are not efficient in killing them. If a terran exchanges his harpies for other ships then it's simply pegs(+) vs. corsairs.
Any cathaar should build Guardians, which btw you can't hit.
Any xan should build mainly vark/sentinel: all of his ships hit you (except a handfull of blocked corvettes) while only 1 of your ships can do damage to him. Some xan build dreadnoughts, which will not flee.
zik: see terran for De fleet, fi/co fleet will also do a lot of damage. ziks can build ManOWars which have no reason to flee.

It takes only little defence to defend against this fleet.

Corsairs are better flak against pegs then even brigs and have a good kill rate. Vsh are also very good flak against pegs and kill the harpies. The fleet would be mainly FI based. Lots of Corsair, lots of vsh and the scarabs to round it out. Vsh would slaughter other xands plus the scarab would freeze the arrowheads to keep em from getting shot from above. And I seriously don't give a crap about guardians because they're not in enough abundance for me to worry. Remember (if you're smart) you're hitting targets smaller than you, so the swarming effect you can have with corsair and vsh is very real. Pickture current Vsh/sent fleets with twice as many sents with better agility and the sents actually directly targeting larger ships for the same fleet score.

[Gerbie]

I don't care what my sentinels target as long as they kill as much as possible. Sentinels are simply more efficient in killing whatever the corsair targets and have superior initiative (especially towards pegs).

[SpazMonster]

Originally posted by Gerbie
I don't care what my sentinels target as long as they kill as much as possible. Sentinels are simply more efficient in killing whatever the corsair targets and have superior initiative (especially towards pegs).

But your losses are higher and the targets the sents hit are already covered better by the vsh and scarab.. so the ship is useless =\

(we are arguing over impossible theoretical fleets.. how sad is that)

[Fasie]

Just for fun i would do :

Dragons / Wyverns / Guardians / Xentrallis Peacekeeper whith some Mantis offcourse :-D

Bt if there was a bs pod i would stay entirely on the bs !!

[Gerbie]

Hmm I haven't tried it in bcalc, but it might be. First tick probably, don't know about the others. Sentinels will have a bigger scare factor against def though. And it makes fleet swapping a lot harder. Sentinels can serv as C sink as well. And you can use them against xan.

Talking about theory makes one understand the game, which you can apply in practice.

[SpazMonster]

Originally posted by Gerbie
Hmm I haven't tried it in bcalc, but it might be. First tick probably, don't know about the others. Sentinels will have a bigger scare factor against def though. And it makes fleet swapping a lot harder. Sentinels can serv as C sink as well. And you can use them against xan.

Talking about theory makes one understand the game, which you can apply in practice.

You can hit xand with corsair too. Use them to flak your vsh. They actually reduce losses when hitting xand, as opposed to sents that increase losses. Reducing losses on your vsh, allows for more killing in following ticks etc. The numbers you'd have corsair in would actually be alot more scary than any sents.. and as I've been saying they are more difficult to kill, making defense more difficult. I find it better to send a 'holy crap that's hard to stop' fleet, rather than a 'holy crap that kills alot' fleet.

[LordNieminen]

Spider 38.5k Beetle 79k
Roach 7k Black Widow 2.2k
Tarantula 120 Mantis 100
Guardian 350 Scorpion 15
Astro Pod 660

-------
works enough well for me, guardians for ingal def trading,
fi's u know for what.. and bw's they'r just there.

Roaches are for defence.

CR/BS was for early roiding inparal.

if big-non xan hit's.. then parallel+ally def. Otherwice a nice ingal
def trade with zik/terran.

[Doorsdown]

Vsharrak/Sents work great

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by The_Fish
why defend against Wyverns with fr?

1) Broadswords are equally fast as the DE Buccaneers
2) Broadswords target BA Secondary (not random)
3) Broadswords have a superior initiative to Wyvern (and buccs :P)
4) Wyvern are less efficient against FR than DE (ie FR giving less losses than DE)
5) Broadswords dont target DE
6) Wyvern are significantly weaker than Pegasi


The idea is that you'll make it too expensive for the terran attacker to bear by killing off his pissweak BA, thus for fewer resources in Broadswords you have an effective tool that can stop a much larger attacker far more efficiently, whilst at the same time freeing up DE defensive units to counter Zik attackers.

In their free time, Broadswords also are effective against CR CAthaars too :P

[das_experiment]

Id do a Beetle\Thief\Roach\Vult fleet

[-QS-]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie
1) Broadswords are equally fast as the DE Buccaneers
2) Broadswords target BA Secondary (not random)
3) Broadswords have a superior initiative to Wyvern (and buccs :P)
4) Wyvern are less efficient against FR than DE (ie FR giving less losses than DE)
5) Broadswords dont target DE
6) Wyvern are significantly weaker than Pegasi


The idea is that you'll make it too expensive for the terran attacker to bear by killing off his pissweak BA, thus for fewer resources in Broadswords you have an effective tool that can stop a much larger attacker far more efficiently, whilst at the same time freeing up DE defensive units to counter Zik attackers.

In their free time, Broadswords also are effective against CR CAthaars too :P

but broadsword open ur fleet to new enemy ships like harpy, bw, cutlass, marauder...

[das_experiment]

Originally posted by -QS-
but broadsword open ur fleet to new enemy ships like harpy, bw, cutlass, marauder...

harps\cutlass shoots on your CO anyhow thou...


I would worry more about corsairs\pulsars

[hyfe]

the worst thing about broadies anyways is your lack of fleets.. since you're probably using two fleetslots for attacking (bash&roid or roid&roid), you'll most likely have just one fleet spot left, if you've built broadies then your left with two equally bad choices;

1. Keep FR home if they aren't needed, and send out some FI/Fake on defense.. but this is just plain silly, as i think we all pretty much agree that we only build entrenching ships when we are under *alot* of fire..

2. Only send out FR, and use all Fi/Co for attacks.. but then again; how often do you really see *ETA 8 DEFENSE NEEDED, PM ME* in alliance channels?

If we had another fleet slot, I might agree there was some advantage to building something as specialized as broadies, but as it stands now its just silly for 99% of the players in PA.. IMO their effiecency at repelling certain types of incomings is grozzly outweighed by how seldom you'll get to use them..

[meddy]

Originally posted by The_Fish
We've had a couple of similar threads, I've been thinking about this for a while and now seems the right time to post it. If you could any 4 ships for roiding, what would they be and why?

Clippers/Pegs/Tula/Demeter

or

BW/Cutter/Chim/Pod

I cant decide between them 2, I think I'd go for the fr fleet, roiding caths with this shouldnt be too hard, as long as they dont have guardians

best roiding fleet is vults, apods, demeter, mantis

nothing else

[General Martok]

Originally posted by meddy
best roiding fleet is vults, apods, demeter, mantis

nothing else

I bet that any zik player would love that

I'd like to try out a Pega/Dem/Tara/Wyv/Fireblade fleet. I know it holds 3 shipclasses, but it is ETA 8 and has quite good initiative.

[Sun_Tzu]

vult/vsh/brig/puls might work out pretty ok, brigs pack ****e nice armor for a co-ship, I've avoided emp and mixing emp and kill doesn't work that well imho, all ships pack a good punch so it'd be a good bit scary to stay and fight, eta7 is nasty, this is made up to be able to target all ships which might be a weakness, a more specific fleet might work better, like a spid/beetle/vult/thief to attack xandas with(not sure on theifs but I need a flak-co-ship).

Hmm, also something I'd like would be pegs/clipper/rogue/dem, stealing de ships, killing fi/co like butter, clipper ripping wholes the size of mountains in anything and being random fire, only real weakness is fr but I can stand that, not much fr targets me anyways...I supose chims or other good fr ship isn't needed to flak the pega with the rogue and clipper being quite armor intensive, though if I wanted to gear up towards xandas I'd o/c use a pega/widowmaker/cutter/dem all targeting fi/co and the cutter having a better armor than the traditionally used chimera, widowmaker being a 2nd pega, this would be pretty dangerous ;/ then again, the point of having both widow and pegas might be a bit lost... I think I'll go peg/cutter/dem/clipper....still all cant target fi/co and I also have the random fire of the clipp... hmm...

[das_experiment]

Vult\Thief\Brig\Roach Quite ok fleet


Pegs\Rogue\Buccs\Dems <-<- very sweet


nevertheless , ur ultimate fleet can never succeed vs more than 2 races nehow.

[spectrum]

one thing many seem to forget: at eta 4 (as outer c/p-def isnt doable anymore) the target still has the option to build mesons.
and with ppl stockpilling resources like hell atm (to increase target-ammount) almost every1 will have enough res to build mesons to kill all vultures in tick1 (or at least a reasonable ammount to make the few roids the survivors cap damn expensive).
a fleet like 'spid/beetle/vult/thief ' wont even touch them..
thats the weak-spot of the steal/emp-ships in your eta7 attacking scenarios.

[Sun_Tzu]

...depends on how many thiefs you have doesn't it? And unlike some my eta7 fleet doesn't have this weakness...