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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:17   #1
SteInMetz
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To PATEAM

Why are we rollbacking 4 ticks, when procedure should have been 281 xx:30.

If you aint gonna follow procedure, then you shouldnt recall fleets either.

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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:18   #2
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Re: To PATEAM

you newb!!!!!!!

and apart from the normal abuse..
the database got screwed, so they had to go back further to get a working database.. thats why they went back so far.. since they game databases and backups went coocoo
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:20   #3
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Re: To PATEAM

I love it when HC's are calling eachother newbs :P
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:20   #4
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Re: To PATEAM

then the proceedure is now null and void thus fleets should be left the same.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:21   #5
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Re: To PATEAM

I can see I chose the right round to quit PA!
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:22   #6
BlueArmy
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kattepis View Post
I love it when HC's are calling eachother newbs :P
i'm emo hc (and stein's lovely galmate) so i call him a newb on daily basis
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:22   #7
SteInMetz
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueArmy View Post
you newb!!!!!!!

and apart from the normal abuse..
the database got screwed, so they had to go back further to get a working database.. thats why they went back so far.. since they game databases and backups went coocoo
Database backups are files. And afaik, the disk wasnt hurt.

Which one is it, were the database corrupt, or where the disk corrupt? Did they hotswap disks in 10mins?
Are they gonna try to run it on corrupt discs?
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:25   #8
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Re: To PATEAM

<Appocomaster> the reason we rolled back this far
<Appocomaster> is because it means that not many people cap, rather than having 1/3 or so capping


So clearly they do have backups and ARE breaking procedure.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:25   #9
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Re: To PATEAM

the backup files are fine, admins are just trying to be nice to everyone so they rollback that far so nobody gets roided

They should follow the procedure.... and they shouldn't try to be nice to 'help' everyone.!!!

(18:08:44) <Appocomaster> the reason we rolled back this far
(18:08:57) <Appocomaster> is because it means that not many people cap, rather than having 1/3 or so capping
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:26   #10
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeyi View Post
<Appocomaster> the reason we rolled back this far
<Appocomaster> is because it means that not many people cap, rather than having 1/3 or so capping


So clearly they do have backups and ARE breaking procedure.
right, you copied my log in here already

now we're sure they'll read it
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:26   #11
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Thumbs down Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoX View Post
the backup files are fine, admins are just trying to be nice to everyone so they rollback that far so nobody gets roided

They should follow the procedure.... and they shouldn't try to be nice to 'help' everyone.!!!

(18:08:44) <Appocomaster> the reason we rolled back this far
(18:08:57) <Appocomaster> is because it means that not many people cap, rather than having 1/3 or so capping
Those people should have organised better defence

Now they're just being eyvvil to those of who capped aswell.


Sorry for using your log, but it was useful for my post
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:29   #12
BlueArmy
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Re: To PATEAM

if that log holds any truth they should be shot... and i'm gonna work on my conspiracy theories.. my favorite atm is that one of the uk based omen members went to the server place and pulled the plug on wishmaster's command.. they then threatened apocco and the rest of pa team to find an excuse to rollback longer than needed to avoid any losses at all...

THE SIGNS ARE ALL THERE!
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:34   #13
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Re: To PATEAM

You might have noticed that I usually try not to criticise the PA Team.

But if we've rolled back further than was necessary I'm very disappointed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SteInMetz View Post
If you aint gonna follow procedure, then you shouldnt recall fleets either.
But two wrongs wouldn't make a right - we should just settle for sticking to procedure.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:40   #14
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueArmy View Post
if that log holds any truth they should be shot... and i'm gonna work on my conspiracy theories.. my favorite atm is that one of the uk based omen members went to the server place and pulled the plug on wishmaster's command.. they then threatened apocco and the rest of pa team to find an excuse to rollback longer than needed to avoid any losses at all...

THE SIGNS ARE ALL THERE!
I can assure you that this log is 100% real

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9...omasterne6.png
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:46   #15
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Re: To PATEAM

ChronoX your ruse has gone on long enough. I confess, I went along with his evul fakelogging scheme and changed my nick to Appoco's to make the logs look legit. Please forgive me
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:47   #16
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Re: To PATEAM

when will people learn such decisions are best left to the roll of a dice.

i propose 2 stages:

1st roll: how many ticks are rolled back
2nd roll: how many ticks game will be 'down'

20 sided dice?

also random shuffle ftw, clearly the logical next step to p**s off the community after recalling fleets...
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:48   #17
SteInMetz
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
You might have noticed that I usually try not to criticise the PA Team.

But if we've rolled back further than was necessary I'm very disappointed.




But two wrongs wouldn't make a right - we should just settle for sticking to procedure.
No, but one wrong doesnt make a right either And if we arent gonna stick to procedure, why should we recall fleets then?
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:48   #18
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Re: To PATEAM

ChronoX... *mate* whatever you say, your going to be wrong, its the way these forums work
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:50   #19
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteInMetz View Post
No, but one wrong doesnt make a right either And if we arent gonna stick to procedure, why should we recall fleets then?
Very true. Breaking any part of a procedure can invalidate the whole of it.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:50   #20
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA View Post
ChronoX... *mate* whatever you say, your going to be wrong, its the way these forums work
No CBA that only applies to you. Can't you tell by all your negrep? Also, it applies to you only because everything you say IS wrong.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:53   #21
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoX View Post
I can assure you that this log is 100% real

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9...omasterne6.png
You're a f*cking newb. Instead of using the Prt Sc-button (print screen), you go through the process of taking a picture with a camera and then uploading it to the computer.

You fail at... just fail
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:56   #22
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueArmy View Post
if that log holds any truth they should be shot... and i'm gonna work on my conspiracy theories.. my favorite atm is that one of the uk based omen members went to the server place and pulled the plug on wishmaster's command.. they then threatened apocco and the rest of pa team to find an excuse to rollback longer than needed to avoid any losses at all...

THE SIGNS ARE ALL THERE!
Millhouse: OK, here's what we've got: The Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the Saucer People, under the supervision of the Reverse Vampires, are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner. We're through the looking glass, here, people.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 18:58   #23
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar View Post
You're a f*cking newb. Instead of using the Prt Sc-button (print screen), you go through the process of taking a picture with a camera and then uploading it to the computer.

You fail at... just fail
Like I said on IRC already to someone else, I made it with a camera because it's not (for me atleast) possible to fake a log in that angle. If I make a print screen I could just have typed something in notepad and hit the printscreen button.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 19:01   #24
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
Millhouse: OK, here's what we've got: The Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the Saucer People, under the supervision of the Reverse Vampires, are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner. We're through the looking glass, here, people.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 19:08   #25
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAs Procedures
If only one tick or less is affected there will be no rollback.

If the game is down for two ticks or more there will be a rollback to the last accessible tick, and there will be a full fleet recall. Ticks will restart 24 hours after the time of the last good backup to ensure all players in all timezones have a fair chance. The game will be inaccessible during the 24 hour period.
1) Why are we even having a rollback? The game could be restored to the previous tick following the failure, which was what ... 30 mins?
2) Now that we are having a rollback, why are we going back to "-4 ticks" and not "the last good backup"?

It seems to me, fleets are being recalled due to following this shit procedure, and the rollback is being to some phantom time that clearly doesn't follow it.

Seriously. Just stop being shit.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 19:11   #26
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Re: To PATEAM

could we just have some sort of response from someone outlining whatever fantasy is being touted as justification for the seemingly arbitrary decision?
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 19:20   #27
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Re: To PATEAM

No wonder OMAC pulls the plug on such an incompetent bunch of idiots.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 19:23   #28
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Re: To PATEAM

There are way too many of my galmates posting in this thread.
I don't like it.
It makes us look like a bunch of whiners.
I expect all of you to shape up or there will be exiling.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 19:24   #29
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Re: To PATEAM

Exile me, then we rollback and all will be good crab!
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 19:38   #30
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Re: To PATEAM

The least they could do is backup to the last working tick, going back further is just wrong since there was nothing wrong with those ticks.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 20:09   #31
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Re: To PATEAM

Agreed.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 20:12   #32
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Re: To PATEAM

The most logical thing to do would be to roll it back to wedensday evening, and restart it friday evening, now it gives the ones who got roided a huge advantage by allowing them to mine their roids for longer, and a disadvantage to the ones who roided somoene.
no fair
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 21:28   #33
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Re: To PATEAM

Any chance of a change of rules so that next time the game crashes there is no recalling of fleets?
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 21:35   #34
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Re: To PATEAM

I wasn't really online when all this rollback nonsense happened, but I don't see how a scenario where all fleets are recalled and we revert to a previous tick can ever be so terrible to warrant such protests. If people were losing fleets or not able to send defence, that would be much much worse in my view. No ones round is ruined as a result of this, so it really isn't worth worrying about. Any PA player worth their salt is probably quite happy for the night off I would wager.

But there is something I am worried about. This is going to be a long, hard fought round (particularly in the alliance sphere), people have paid money and we have lost quite a bit of time already. PA team should account for that time and extend the round accordingly. It would be a shame if an alliance lost this round because of time running out on them. If this is the last round, we should do it a bit of justice, I feel.
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 21:43   #35
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Re: To PATEAM

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Originally Posted by ChronoX View Post
Like I said on IRC already to someone else, I made it with a camera because it's not (for me atleast) possible to fake a log in that angle. If I make a print screen I could just have typed something in notepad and hit the printscreen button.
I never thought about that. I guess I'm the fail then
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Unread 5 Feb 2009, 22:19   #36
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Re: To PATEAM

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Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony View Post
could we just have some sort of response from someone outlining whatever fantasy is being touted as justification for the seemingly arbitrary decision?
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Unread 6 Feb 2009, 00:56   #37
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Re: To PATEAM

pa team got slagged off for rolling back to the last good backup on the first occasion. Light so eloquently explained they should of rolled back to a user friendly screw everybody tick, And whilst there was general agreeance to this every1 was pis sed at the fleet recall. Why dont PATEAM listen??

Next crash, next rollback, PA Team rollback to a user friendly, screw everybody tick, and they get blasted for inconsistency (roughly translated, they actually listened to some of the arguement last time). Appoco gets hanged because of a screeny chronox (aka tit) takes and gets the EULA shoved in his face.

... Guess u cant please all the people all the time

FFS i dont agree with the fleet recall but stop giving PaTeam mixed fking signals. Chronox, if your gonna be twatish enough to trap Appoco in a screeny consider this.

PA's very delicate future lies in his hands (amongst others) If you honestly want some kind of user feedback to be inputted into the future of PA, don't give appoco a reason not to answer your fking questions u complete idiot.

/me joins the movement thats feels PATeam should stop giving credence to the 'respected' members of PAs wishes.

You guys are right. Code shouldn't of been introduced mid round. Especially when the majoirty of fleets were landing. You guys are also right, in both instances there wasn't the need for a fleet recall. Both instances could have been handled better by PaTeam

BUT respect the fact that you guys are helping to force mistakes in administration with your uppity ' i know best' fking views of how things should be done. Theres a reason they were asked to be on PaTeam and there is a reason you weren't. Stop getting above your station you fag geeks.

Post both rollback decisions, the only wrong decision the Team have made is the recall of fleets. Stop splitting hairs coz your as responsible for the next bad decision as PaTeam are.
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Unread 6 Feb 2009, 03:57   #38
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Re: To PATEAM

3 waves landed before me and will keep their roids, is that fair ? Either you roll back before anyone lands or you stick to the procedure. Setting arbitrarily at tick for rollback is nonsense and can only lead to anger, frustration and suspicion.
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Unread 6 Feb 2009, 08:00   #39
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
BUT respect the fact that you guys are helping to force mistakes in administration with your uppity ' i know best' fking views of how things should be done. Theres a reason they were asked to be on PaTeam and there is a reason you weren't. Stop getting above your station you fag geeks.

Post both rollback decisions, the only wrong decision the Team have made is the recall of fleets. Stop splitting hairs coz your as responsible for the next bad decision as PaTeam are.
I'm only pointing out a flaw in this thread.
How can they blame fleet recalls on the rollback procedure, when they arent following it?
If you break the procedure, you nullify the whole procedure.
So when they reason the fleet recalls with "rollback procedure", it's only natural to question it.
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Unread 6 Feb 2009, 11:18   #40
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Re: To PATEAM

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Originally Posted by DarkHeart View Post
PA's very delicate future lies in his hands (amongst others)
No, no it does not. It's purely in the hands of OMAC and it seems pretty much sealed what happens. Those people called PA Team failed for long enough to make a proper game out of PA again.
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Unread 6 Feb 2009, 17:20   #41
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
No, no it does not. It's purely in the hands of OMAC and it seems pretty much sealed what happens. Those people called PA Team failed for long enough to make a proper game out of PA again.
Let's not forget that though we are paying customers (which gives us a certain right to bitch), PA Team are unpaid volunteers. The people ultimately responsible for the demise of PA are the people who get our money. Their unwillingness to invest in this game is what brought us to where we are today. I'm not saying PA Team hasn't ****ed up a lot, because they have. However, I firmly believe that they did the best they could in an impossible situation and that without them, PA would have died a long time ago. While I'm sure some of you would say that the death of PA would perhaps have been for the best, the fact that you're all still here is evidence to the contrary.
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Unread 6 Feb 2009, 17:48   #42
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Re: To PATEAM

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Let's not forget that though we are paying customers (which gives us a certain right to bitch), PA Team are unpaid volunteers.
Actually, Cin gets paid and it's his only source of income. He's f*cked without PA.
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Unread 6 Feb 2009, 18:01   #43
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Re: To PATEAM

you would think Cin would be less of a jackass to people, considering we are paying his bills!
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Unread 6 Feb 2009, 18:10   #44
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Re: To PATEAM

We're paying Christiano Ronaldo's bills too, and he's an even bigger jackass.

Besides, Appoc is good cop. Two good cops dont work, do you not watch movies?!
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Unread 6 Feb 2009, 23:07   #45
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by asust3k View Post
Actually, Cin gets paid and it's his only source of income. He's f*cked without PA.
What, seriously?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 7 Feb 2009, 01:36   #46
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by asust3k View Post
Actually, Cin gets paid and it's his only source of income. He's f*cked without PA.
What, seriously?
Yes, i did...did cause omac hasn't paid me since oct, well technically it was jolt that still paid me then.
and yes, it is and was my only source of income, but after several years of unemployment i had to ask. and before anyone starts getting ideas about this being any large amounts, it was so called to cover 40 hours a month, and the hourly wage was far less than i'd get in a normal job, specially considering 40h doesn't even cover the time i spend on pa in a week.

biffy already posted on the forum (here) that someone were getting paid though, so it shouldn't come as a total shock, that were a couple of months after i started getting paid.
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Unread 7 Feb 2009, 20:22   #47
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Re: To PATEAM

If you're employed for (more than) 40h a week, why is there such a lack of game development? You could make a whole new game in two weeks or so (upper estimate) if you put those hours in.
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Unread 7 Feb 2009, 20:56   #48
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Re: To PATEAM

He said 40 hours a month.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 7 Feb 2009, 21:03   #49
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Re: To PATEAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
If you're employed for (more than) 40h a week, why is there such a lack of game development? You could make a whole new game in two weeks or so (upper estimate) if you put those hours in.
i'm not employed for 40h a week, and you assume that my time is purely spend on development, something which is extremely far from the truth.
Something which most admins can confirm is that the majority of your time is spent doing other things than the jobs you are actually meant to do.
Answering questions of various types, listening to ppls ideas, looking into claims of bugs, odd happenings, digging up proof that ppl are making false claims regarding things that's just "happened" or didn't happen at their account, having discussions with ppl regarding features, listening to ppl complaining about something, having discussions with ppl trying to talk their way into some kind of special favour or treatment. Then there's all the ppl that needs help with things, mails not working, wrong emails on signups, things they don't understand, and ofc they don't wanna believe things when it comes from just a support team member, they have to hear it from some kind of high level admin preferably a coder ofc. Credits that ppl either think they have, and often can remember the email for, accepting payments...
you're probably starting to get the picture

tbh i'd love to be able to spend my time on development, problem is there's so much more involved it simply doesn't work that way.
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Unread 7 Feb 2009, 21:03   #50
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Re: To PATEAM

My bad!
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