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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 18:55   #1
MegaNova
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loose roids

I demand my roids back from the pa crew becouse i lost roids while i was and still am in vacation mode.
i went into vacation mode for reason, being not loosing roids while i am partying 3 nights in a row.
But when somebody has prelaunched on you, their attack still continues despite the fact you are in vacation mode.
And since my galm8's or alliance members cant defend me becouse i am vacation mode i am basicly ****ed.

So give me back my roids !!!!
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 19:06   #2
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Re: loose roids

i see no way to avoid this

if they pull fleets which are prelaunched then anyone who sees prelaunch incomming they can't deal with will drop in to vac mode.

-mist
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 19:25   #3
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Re: loose roids

and form the other side if we prevented people entering vacation mode if they had prelaunched incs then people could stop people ever entering vacation mode.

maybe it shoudl be possibel to defend people in vacation mode though (no idea if it is atm or not)
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 19:33   #4
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Re: loose roids

i'm thinking not

-mist
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 19:45   #5
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaNova
And since my galm8's or alliance members cant defend me becouse i am vacation mode i am basicly ****ed.
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 19:45   #6
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Re: loose roids

Vacation mode
You have the option of putting your planet into a vacation mode, for if you are going away. While your planet is in vacation mode you cannot be attacked, however you do not accumulate resources, and cannot log into your planet for a duration of at least 72 ticks

Thats what it sais in the manual, and thats what i thought, but it sais nothing about prelaunched incoming.

I went into vacation mode with the idea i wouldnt loose roids while i was getting drunk 3 nights in a row.
As there isnt any disclaimer about prelaunched incoming, i didnt check for prelaunched incoming.

So i still demand my roids back becouse its your fault i lost those roids and not mine, as you didnt document it in the manual or simply didnt code it properly enough to make prelaunched incoming undone when you are going into vacation mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
i see no way to avoid this

if they pull fleets which are prelaunched then anyone who sees prelaunch incomming they can't deal with will drop in to vac mode.

-mist
Then thats the risk you take by prelaunching.
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 19:52   #7
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Re: loose roids

actually, that's the risk you take by going in to vac mode...

but i do agree it should have been documented. question really is whether planetarion's 'rules' are goverened by what's in the code, or what's in the rulebook. if the latter i'd expect you to get your roids back, if the former then you won't. which is better from a customer service pov i leave as an excercise for the reader

-mist
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 20:03   #8
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Re: loose roids

Its governed in the code.
The check happens when you launch a fleet. If the planet is in vacation mode at the time you order the fleet to launch ( or prelaunch ), then it gives you an error message saying you cannot attack a planet in vacation mode

If it was checked when a fleet is actually launched ( ie by the ticker ) , then as was rightly pointed out - vacation mode would be abused in such a way that when a planet gets prelaunched incomings, they would hide in vacation mode and avoid it.

The manual has always and probably will always be a guide, and not the definition of everything planetarion - despite efforts to make it as complete as possible
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 21:05   #9
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Re: loose roids

If you would have put it in the manual or at the go into vacation mode button i would have gotten somebody to jgp me before i went into vacation mode.
It is not that hard to put an extra line of text there.

And is there a chance i get my roids back from pateam?
As i still think it is your somebody in the pateams mistake you didnt document it anywhere.
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 21:26   #10
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Re: loose roids

Ya know im forced to agree with both sides here,

First If the code is the final rule on things, then EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE IN THE MANUAL!!!
Think of it like this, if you were driving and got pulled over, and arrested for doing something no one knew was a crime, because it was written no where or had been stated or told to anyone anywhere, how could you expect to be prosecuted?

The flip side is that, well there really isnt a flip side, cos you cant see the prelauched incoming without a JPG scan. However there SHOULD be both a warning that states. Any Prelaunched Fleets targetting your planet at the time you enter vacation mode will still be able to finish thier attack.

Also a check should be added to the code, when you press the go into vacation mode button the game should automatically run a JPG scan and if it finds a incoing hostile fleet display a warning stating that if you continue anywyuas you are risking the fleet hitting you still, and that allies cannot defend you while in vacation mode.
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 21:32   #11
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Re: loose roids

my only thing with this is, why doesn't prelaunched def lauch
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 22:00   #12
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorsdown
my only thing with this is, why doesn't prelaunched def lauch
it does?
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 22:44   #13
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Exclamation Re: loose roids

The manual should cover this. I'd be inclined to refund his roids as payment for being the first to report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionIII
Also a check should be added to the code, when you press the go into vacation mode button the game should automatically run a JPG scan and if it finds a incoing hostile fleet display a warning stating that if you continue anywyuas you are risking the fleet hitting you still, and that allies cannot defend you while in vacation mode.
Perhaps a better solution might be to just allow defense missions on planets in vacation mode--what's the downside?
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 23:04   #14
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Re: loose roids

eitehr way i dont care im just commenting on one of several possible solutions to this topic
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 23:07   #15
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Re: loose roids

i think allowing defence fleets is the way forward

-mist
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 23:23   #16
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
actually, that's the risk you take by going in to vac mode...

actually, the downside of vacation mode is you gain nothing, no resourses, no prod time, no research, no construction. the downside isnt you may still be attacked. pa is totally in the wrong, he should be refunded or given his roids back...
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Unread 26 Nov 2004, 23:37   #17
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Re: loose roids

evidence would tend to suggest that one of the current downsides of vac mode is that you can still be hit by prelaunched fleets

-mist
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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 06:30   #18
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
it does?
no it doesn't or atleast it didn't in the yearly part of the round
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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 06:51   #19
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
evidence would tend to suggest that one of the current downsides of vac mode is that you can still be hit by prelaunched fleets

-mist
retarded. its like deleting someone mid round and saying "we deleted you because you gained to many roids, its not in the manual, however it is in the code which you dont know about, therefore isnt our fault"

:\
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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 11:17   #20
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
evidence would tend to suggest that one of the current downsides of vac mode is that you can still be hit by prelaunched fleets

-mist
Being a customer tends to suggest it's nothing more than normal you'd be told about these 'things' that are not in the manual, seeing they directly affect the product you've bought, being your planet.
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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 12:49   #21
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil05
actually, the downside of vacation mode is you gain nothing, no resourses, no prod time, no research, no construction. the downside isnt you may still be attacked. pa is totally in the wrong, he should be refunded or given his roids back...
Your construction and research doesn't stop though...not sure about production, but don't think that stops either...however you don't gain resources....

and tbh i don't think he should get his roids back caus it's been a known fact for quite some time that prelaunched hostile fleets still get launch after you've entered vac-mode.
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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 12:55   #22
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Re: loose roids

I don't see why MegaNova should suffer roid loss because of this..

@Mist: Your comment regarding it being one of the risks when going into Vac. mode is plain silly and arrogant, as it implies he has done something which he should have known about - which he could not have.

So PA team, be a man about it and give the guy his roids back.

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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 12:57   #23
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus
and tbh i don't think he should get his roids back caus it's been a known fact for quite some time that prelaunched hostile fleets still get launch after you've entered vac-mode.
Show me where that is documented please.
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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 14:00   #24
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by YaZZam
Show me where that is documented please.
As i said it's a "known fact"...
Didn't say anything about it being documented.

To my knowlage it wasn't/isn't "documented" anywhere that certain zik ships could be used in combination with defending fleets to create a strikeforce it is impossible to cover against...yet ppl knew about it, used it and complained about it...
Yes there's a possiblilty to get things back if such a tactic is used against you this round if you meet the "requirements" for it...
However as the thing about prelaunched fleets has been around for quite some time it would be hard not for ppl not to know about it IF they were willing to check/ask about it
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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 14:47   #25
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by YaZZam
@Mist: Your comment regarding it being one of the risks when going into Vac. mode is plain silly and arrogant, as it implies he has done something which he should have known about - which he could not have.
i'd direct your attention to my earlier post :http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpost.php?p=2786910&postcount=7 and the response here: http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...15&postcount=8

particularly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil
The manual has always and probably will always be a guide, and not the definition of everything planetarion
of course, you did read the whole thread and would therefore realise the post was a dig at pa's pr, rather than any implication that he should have known. didn't you?

-mist
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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 15:01   #26
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Re: loose roids

Add a warning that it's recommended you jgp yourself before you go in vac.

Should cover everything nicely.
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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 19:53   #27
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Add a warning that it's recommended you jgp yourself before you go in vac.

Should cover everything nicely.
It would be covered nicely if it were possible to JGP oneself without a returning fleet.

Last edited by Banned; 27 Nov 2004 at 20:13.
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Unread 27 Nov 2004, 20:16   #28
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Re: loose roids

letting people defend someone in vac mode would seem the simplest solution. i see no downsides to it

-mist
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 02:55   #29
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
letting people defend someone in vac mode would seem the simplest solution. i see no downsides to it
I guess the downside is that it would require someone to modify the code.
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 04:26   #30
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
I guess the downside is that it would require someone to modify the code.
it's that or require someone to update the manual...

-mist
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 07:44   #31
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Re: loose roids

It should be made possible to defend vac mode planets. That would at least make the problem somewhat smaller. I dont see any other way to solve the problem but it should the very least be stated in the manual that prelaunches do not get canceled if launched before you you go into vac mode.
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 08:03   #32
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Re: loose roids

Allowing people to defend a planet in vac mode doesn't really solve the problem.. I think the main problem is not knowing that you may still be attacked after entering vacation mode. Anyone that goes into vacation mode expects to see their planet untouched when they log back into their account so it's a bit unfair that this is'nt always the case.
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 10:33   #33
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Re: loose roids

Well this thread has made some comments which i beleive on both sides can be considered true. Now i know this has bin said and critized before but it is quite common knowledge that if you go into vaction mode you should get somone to Jumpgate scan you before so you can make sure no other fleets are on you before you set urself that way. Now what im curious about is.. why you needed to set yourself in vaction mode just to go and get drunk? You needed that long to go and get drunk? U might say that the pre-launch system abuses the Vaction mode, however im starting to wonder if you didnt set urself in vaction mode knowing full well these guys were attacking you in the first place, becuase setting urself for vaction just to go on 2 days of getting drunk is also abusing i feel the mode for Vaction.

How ever i do beleive it should be known at the same time in the manual now its bin brought to attention not everyone knows about this pre-launch system, so i do beleive your all correct on this. But also what has just brought to my attention last round there was a system called 'the mentors' which wasnt offical support members but they helped you play the game, taught you ways ect. Now for everyone that played last round there was a PA manual as its always there and a mentors section telling you basic info to help new ppeople play the game, these details included setting up alliances, stats, how to attack and also it had a section on this subject. So i would like to point out i beleive last round it WAS made public in the offical mentors guide.

Vaction mode is usally used for people actually going away for a few days for instance not to get drunk. I beleive that Mega your not a novice PA player and you should know by now wheather the PA team made it clear in the manual or not you should not put yourself in Vac mode without scanning to make sure first. So i dont beleive you should get your roids back. Plus i remmember in support you asked to be put forward to the people in charge, I beleive you was Given buffies email addy to contact Buffy whos the Jolt rep of PA, instead you ignored this and have now posted on the public forms.. so my answer is No i dont beleive you deserve your roids back.

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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 10:51   #34
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by YaZZam
I don't see why MegaNova should suffer roid loss because of this..

@Mist: Your comment regarding it being one of the risks when going into Vac. mode is plain silly and arrogant, as it implies he has done something which he should have known about - which he could not have.

So PA team, be a man about it and give the guy his roids back.

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Yazzam looking at your signature you was obviously part of Eclipse when i was there as an officer, plus you have bin part of Xanadu. Now the pre-launch system has bin used for a few rounds now and as you have bin in many good allies im sure you have knowledge of this fact about you needing to scan urself.. how ever you mentioned ealier in this thread that u dont see any public statement.. i agree on that fact, how ever seeing your history in PA you can also admit you knew about this as its common knowledge


And as far as your last line goes im sure if he hadnt posted on here and listened to everyone on Netgamers in support it cud of bin settled, but he is digging himself a bigger grave ranting on here like he is after he was given the details needed to make a formal complaint.
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 13:22   #35
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Re: loose roids

Easy solution: Remove attacking prelaunch. Could solve a few other problems too.

BTW, I completely sympathise with MegaNova here. Going into Vacation Mode should not be a "risk". It's there for a reason, and that's to take a break from PA. So, when you're in vac, your planet should pretty much be in stasis - and unassailable. This is quite obviously a *bug*, not a *feature*.

I find your attitude, mist, to be quite quite honest, absolutely despicable.
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 14:54   #36
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eol
Easy solution: Remove attacking prelaunch. Could solve a few other problems too.

BTW, I completely sympathise with MegaNova here. Going into Vacation Mode should not be a "risk". It's there for a reason, and that's to take a break from PA. So, when you're in vac, your planet should pretty much be in stasis - and unassailable. This is quite obviously a *bug*, not a *feature*.

I find your attitude, mist, to be quite quite honest, absolutely despicable.
fair enough, i can see how realism would upset you. while i agree that pa should be run by the manual and not the code, i think it's quite obvious that it's not going to happen. i do, however, looj forward to the justification for closing someone when they find a bug and use it - as the code is the rules i'm sure someone'll be arguing that this is totally legit.

however, i'm not aware of any problems with prelaunch which need fixing...

-mist
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 14:54   #37
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
Well this thread has made some comments which i beleive on both sides can be considered true. Now i know this has bin said and critized before but it is quite common knowledge that if you go into vaction mode you should get somone to Jumpgate scan you before so you can make sure no other fleets are on you before you set urself that way. Now what im curious about is.. why you needed to set yourself in vaction mode just to go and get drunk? You needed that long to go and get drunk? U might say that the pre-launch system abuses the Vaction mode, however im starting to wonder if you didnt set urself in vaction mode knowing full well these guys were attacking you in the first place, becuase setting urself for vaction just to go on 2 days of getting drunk is also abusing i feel the mode for Vaction.

How ever i do beleive it should be known at the same time in the manual now its bin brought to attention not everyone knows about this pre-launch system, so i do beleive your all correct on this. But also what has just brought to my attention last round there was a system called 'the mentors' which wasnt offical support members but they helped you play the game, taught you ways ect. Now for everyone that played last round there was a PA manual as its always there and a mentors section telling you basic info to help new ppeople play the game, these details included setting up alliances, stats, how to attack and also it had a section on this subject. So i would like to point out i beleive last round it WAS made public in the offical mentors guide.

Vaction mode is usally used for people actually going away for a few days for instance not to get drunk. I beleive that Mega your not a novice PA player and you should know by now wheather the PA team made it clear in the manual or not you should not put yourself in Vac mode without scanning to make sure first. So i dont beleive you should get your roids back. Plus i remmember in support you asked to be put forward to the people in charge, I beleive you was Given buffies email addy to contact Buffy whos the Jolt rep of PA, instead you ignored this and have now posted on the public forms.. so my answer is No i dont beleive you deserve your roids back.

Rgds Assassin
I put myself in vacation mode becouse i was going to get drunk but not in my home town so basicly i was away for 3 days but at home 8 hours in between.
And about putting myself in vacation mode becouse i knew i had incoming?
I had 600 roids 400k value in a gal that was 6million in score of wich i was 1.8mil in score.
So i knew i was going to get incoming if i didnt put myself in vacation mode. And if you get incoming and you are away you cant run your fleet.
Good enough reason to go into vacation mode for you ???

I didnt get buffys email or whatever so i didnt ignore that

And i play pa since round 3 and dont need some mentor team to guide me and i aint novice.
Go ask ppl about me before you suggest stupid things.
And look at what happend in #support instead of just posting bs about things that never happend.
Kal said that it was phil who i needed to talk to so i waited and talked to him about it. He gave me spinners email if i still didnt agree with him being not giving me back my roids.
So i mailed spinner about how i thought of the situation and put in the log of my talk with phil.

Now i am gonna rest on my bed becouse my head is spinning 3 ways at the same time.
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 15:00   #38
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaNova
And i play pa since round 3 and dont need some mentor team to guide me and i aint novice.
So in that case you would know that if you go into vac mode when you have incoming fleets they continue on their way. So what made you think that a pre-launched fleet would be any different?
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 15:31   #39
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
fair enough, i can see how realism would upset you.
a) You don't want realism in wargames. Go watch the news. You don't want that.
b) Emphasis on game. Games are for fun. When a game (or anything really) does something completely unexpected and bites you, that's not fun. Think on that for a moment.
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 15:34   #40
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbondigo
So in that case you would know that if you go into vac mode when you have incoming fleets they continue on their way. So what made you think that a pre-launched fleet would be any different?
A prelaunched fleet orbits home planet untill launch tick. Therefore the (8 + 4) in the mission screen, as opposed to (12). They're not flying at all, they're waiting before they fly. Therefore nothing on the news either. How can this *not* be the way you conceptualise prelaunching?
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 16:10   #41
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Re: loose roids

allow def to vac planets? would that be so bad?
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 17:05   #42
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbondigo
So in that case you would know that if you go into vac mode when you have incoming fleets they continue on their way. So what made you think that a pre-launched fleet would be any different?
So if you have a car for 12 years and it breaks down you can fix it ??
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 17:21   #43
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaNova
So if you have a car for 12 years and it breaks down you can fix it ??
Yes
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 17:46   #44
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eol
a) You don't want realism in wargames. Go watch the news. You don't want that.
b) Emphasis on game. Games are for fun. When a game (or anything really) does something completely unexpected and bites you, that's not fun. Think on that for a moment.
*sigh* clearly, i was refering to the realism of launching huge fleets of space ships to another planet, to steal 'roids' from them, and how this should be possible when the planet grinds to an absolute halt and everyone goes on a 72 hour siesta because the planet's ruler wants to get drunk, and noone can continue working without him.

or perhaps i was refering to the reality of the situation wrt pa's customer orientation?

anyway. yes, it's a game. games have rules. the idea is to play the game within the rules, generally to the best of your ability. while not knowing the rules may make the game less fun, that doesn't mean the rules should change for you. it does, however, mean that the rules should be documented in a clear and accurate way - which is really the problem in this case.

-mist
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 17:58   #45
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Re: loose roids

This is a silly arguement.

No where does it say on either the manual or the vaccation spiel on prefferences about pre launched and even the *changed* preference screen only talks about no new fleets which a pre launch clearly is as Eol pointed out.

So if we want to say to Meganova "well yeah ok so we didn't document it, but this is PA you should know by now that what we say will happen and what actually does happen are two different things, you should have KNOWN that (that's the really hilarious bit, not that this is the case, but that everyone should already KNOW this is the case) and acted accordingly" then by all means carry on. But for crying out loud for the sake of 2 minutes customer service give the lad his roids back because he's quite right in saying he went in vac mode, and then got incomming and it was allowed to land and that makes no sense. Then you can alter what is the state of play, you can say "well yeah this time we did this, because there was no precident, and there was no documentation but hencefore this will be what happens"

And all the breaking it down into metaphors is just being silly. This is a customer providor exchange here and I know that some people in PA have a clue about that, you're all paying them after all.... I mean if they had no business sense, you'd stop
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 18:38   #46
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaNova
I put myself in vacation mode becouse i was going to get drunk but not in my home town so basicly i was away for 3 days but at home 8 hours in between.
And about putting myself in vacation mode becouse i knew i had incoming?
I had 600 roids 400k value in a gal that was 6million in score of wich i was 1.8mil in score.
So i knew i was going to get incoming if i didnt put myself in vacation mode. And if you get incoming and you are away you cant run your fleet.
Good enough reason to go into vacation mode for you ???

I didnt get buffys email or whatever so i didnt ignore that

And i play pa since round 3 and dont need some mentor team to guide me and i aint novice.
Go ask ppl about me before you suggest stupid things.
And look at what happend in #support instead of just posting bs about things that never happend.
Kal said that it was phil who i needed to talk to so i waited and talked to him about it. He gave me spinners email if i still didnt agree with him being not giving me back my roids.
So i mailed spinner about how i thought of the situation and put in the log of my talk with phil.

Now i am gonna rest on my bed becouse my head is spinning 3 ways at the same time.

Ok im starting to wonder if you actually read my post mate. First i was in the support channel, as im part of the team. U were given spinners email and also biffies, i have a log if you want me to continue with this? Second you were given the info you needed, you stated above you contacted spinner so why bother coming here for like a 4 yr old child demanding a lollypop once its already bin eaten?

Next item is the mentors team, i said that it was made public that vaction mode does not stop pre-launchers already on your planet.. I DIDNT state you had to read or get trained.. but also as you stated ealier if you have bin playing since round 3 u shud of known of this before about the pre-launching and theres no excuse for this.

not once did i state you need mentoring, not once did i state you shud read it as its no longer avilable.. so perhaps you should as you said 'get some sleep' as your obviously not understanding the things bin said to you. And i still dont think you deserve your roids back, especially as you have proven your 1) not listening 2) a vetren PA player who must be asleep for the past 3 rounds and 3) Giving abuse to people where it isnt needed.

Rgds Assassin
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 18:51   #47
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
And i still dont think you deserve your roids back, especially as you have proven your 1) not listening 2) a vetren PA player who must be asleep for the past 3 rounds and 3) Giving abuse to people where it isnt needed.

Rgds Assassin
Sorry but none of those criteria are particularly relevant are they?

Whether or not you *like* the customer matters not one iota in customer service now does it. But you work in Support, I'm sure you already know that
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 19:06   #48
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Re: loose roids

Well im glad you have a response, as i wud like to point out summot you were taking the mic out of ealier.. you said this line:

"well yeah ok so we didn't document it, but this is PA you should know by now that what we say will happen and what actually does happen are two different things, you should have KNOWN that (that's the really hilarious bit, not that this is the case, but that everyone should already KNOW this is the case) and acted accordingly"

Now yes thats true, in my post i have put that sort of scenario accorss.. how ever it WAS made Public on the mentors manual last round as i stated in my post ealier.. so it was made public last round. I rest my case on that matter. But no i know how support team works, but as i also saw him come into support and tried to get us to do everything for him then tbh i feel he didnt take in any of the help offered, and he just thought he would come on this forum and try to make it somthing, which of course could of bin avoided.
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 19:11   #49
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Re: loose roids

Assasin if you read your log you will see that biffies email was given to sparks for a completely diffrent reason.
If you look at the date that i made the first post you will see that i didnt go whining here afther phil denied me of giving my roids back.
But i already started whining here earlier, mainly becouse i wanted to know what other ppl thought of this and that it should become more public as i didnt know about this and i know some more ppl that didnt know aswell.

I also kinda expected somebody of the PaTeam would have updated the manual by now or the preferences page so not more ppl will have to suffer from this "known" fact
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Unread 28 Nov 2004, 19:20   #50
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Re: loose roids

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaNova
But i already started whining here earlier, mainly becouse i wanted to know what other ppl thought of this and that it should become more public as i didnt know about this and i know some more ppl that didnt know aswell.
Read your first post. You didn't ask the opinions of anyone and were, as you said yourself, just whinging.
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