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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 22:25   #1
Fr0sten
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Expantion OF PA Community.

Now we all know planetarion is not going to get bigger sitting where it is @ NetGamers.

I am not Suggesting this because of my problems @ Netgamers in fact far from it.

I am Suggesting this in the best interests of planetarion!

Now this is a simple case of numbers and also for the better of the future of planetarion.

-
There are 14 users and 152234 invisible on 36 servers
81 operator(s) online
29 unknown connection(s)
144607 channels formed
I have 11290 clients and 1 servers
-

Quakenet has better services and also offers the same status as Planetarion has with NetGamers, I have been speaking to a few IRC Operators on qukanet and jolt already have a large community on quakenet and there is also other well known channels such as #multiplay and other large Games such as counter strike and other games. Quakenet is fastly becoming the largest Gaming network in the world.

There is also NO LIMIT on the amount of channels you can register or nicknames. The IRC Operators are very friendly and jolt already has an IRC Server linked to quakenet like it does at NetGamers,

I have once again spoken out and been G-Lined because of this. well quite frankly

I will reply again to this thread if you want to know what happened.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 22:37   #2
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

uh... #planetarion on Quakenet was started so they could have a closer "relation" to the people on Quakenet, not because of the shit service of Netgamers. I've never had any problems with Netgamers and tbh I don't think there's any major problems.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 22:47   #3
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

If people have issues with one of our partners, in this case netgamers that cannot be resolved directly they should come to us with detailed accounts and evidence so that we can take action. Until we see a good reason not to, netgamers will remain part of Planetarion's long term strategy.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 22:56   #4
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
If people have issues with one of our partners, in this case netgamers that cannot be resolved directly they should come to us with detailed accounts and evidence so that we can take action. Until we see a good reason not to, netgamers will remain part of Planetarion's long term strategy.
Kal,

Even you have been to Quakenet do you remember my bot idea which was talked about and setup 4 - 5 months ago and NG IRC Operators Stamped on our idea to Link #Planetarion with other major networks to try and get the word out to more people and thus expand the channel into other realms. Basicly using bots to link #Planetarion with other networks such as, DALnet / Quakenet / Undernet / EFnet. So #Planetarion could talk with users on other networks and visa versa.

If Planetarion moved to Quakenet I think there would be a massive increase in player base and also there would be more money for planetarion which means Jolt could most likely start paying the lovely work you all do.

I do not see any harm in a few of the Alliances Moving to Quakenet and also the rest of the community helping support Planetarion by simply typing the following command...

/server -m irc.quakenet.org
/join #Planetarion
/join #jolt
and any other channels that might interest them... Already people have come to quakenet and setup camp! I would urge alliances to register there channels/nicknames on quakenet.

Last edited by Fr0sten; 19 Sep 2006 at 08:57.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 23:02   #5
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuakeNet FAQ
You can't own a nick here on QuakeNet, even if it's your auth name on Q (and L). Anyone else can take it when you're not using it. You can try talking to the person that has taken your nick if you really want it back but it's up to him/her if he/she wants to give it back. If not, you should just use another nick until your nick is free again.
<-- Thats reason enough for me not to use Quakenet.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 23:03   #6
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sten
Kal,

Even you have been to Quakenet which was setup 4 - 5 months ago and NG Stamped on our idea to Link #Planetarion with other major networks to try and get the word out to more people and thus expand the channel into other realms.

If Planetarion moved to Quakenet I think there would be a massive increase in player base and also there would be more money for planetarion which means Jolt could most likely start paying the lovely work you all do.

I do not see any harm in a few of the Alliances Moving to Quakenet and also the rest of the community helping support Planetarion by simply typing the following command...

/server -m irc.quakenet.org
/join #Planetarion
/join #jolt
and any other channels that might interest them... Already people have come to quakenet and setup camp! I would urge alliances to register there channels/nicknames on quakenet.
Fr0sten, while in some ways linking channels across networks would be useful. Theese are the sort of things that only PATeam could realisitcly investigate due to our close relationship with ng. However, personalyl I think linked channels tend to be ugly and have a negative effect on communication.

I don't think that changing networks would have any real effect on income, and in fact its worth pointing out that recently other games similar to PA have moved to netgamers - so clearly netgamers does have its benefits over other networks. The majority of out potential market are ex players or players of similar games, most of which can be found on this network.

I would hazard a guess that bar netgamers closing down, the only reason we would leave netgamers is if we made a strategic decision to abandon irc as a communications system. However, that sort of move would only be viable if our playerbase had outgrown the network, which does not seem liekly in the immediate future.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 23:12   #7
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

But I really think people should come to #Planetarion on quakenet! the bigger the channel on quakenet the more people are going to do a /list and see us there and that would get the word out more!

Also Kal,

I have done my research and Quakenet would give Planetarion Partner status which would give you access to there global noticer! Which would therefor attract 100,000+ people to planetarion!!!! I really think its worth giving it a go!

And to be totally honest your thinking about what "Planetarion wants" as in the PA Team well to be honest without customers of which to be honest we see people leave almost on a daily basis now. And its a known fact that the community is getting smaller! Well I can see jolt most likely dropping Planetarion as its not a profit making assest (This I assuming! therefor if I am wrong I appologise.)

I love this game to bits I have seen it close before! And I will not let it close again.... This community could be as big as it was when planetarion first started out! You are stunting its growth by staying @ Netgamers.

Last edited by Fr0sten; 17 Sep 2006 at 23:22.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 23:25   #8
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

fr0sten not being funny, but why are you researching information with quakenet to that level of detail when you aren't an official representive of the game or jolt?
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 23:28   #9
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
fr0sten not being funny, but why are you researching information with quakenet to that level of detail when you aren't an official representive of the game or jolt?
Do you have to be a member of the pa team or jolt for having an initiative or bringing up a suggestion for the games future?
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 23:34   #10
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Please NOTE! This is A suggestion! of which You should seriously consider putting a POLL on the portal about!

So that the community as a whole can decide.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 23:38   #11
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

when it comes to discussing partner status with quakenet, in my opinion, it is the responsibility of jolt or its representative to broach the subject

Initiative is a good thing, and i'm not saying fr0sten was wrong for bringing this up for discussion...however i feel once it got to a stage where discussions were held with quakenet it should have been either a rep or with a rep there.
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 23:50   #12
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
when it comes to discussing partner status with quakenet, in my opinion, it is the responsibility of jolt or its representative to broach the subject

Initiative is a good thing, and i'm not saying fr0sten was wrong for bringing this up for discussion...however i feel once it got to a stage where discussions were held with quakenet it should have been either a rep or with a rep there.

At no point in the conversation was planetarion mentioned! I simply asked about Rules and proceedures on becoming a partner.

1) You would need an IRC Server (Jolt Has One!)
2) You would have to have a support channel.
3) A large userbase that would benifit the qnet network.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 00:02   #13
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

As Kargool pointed out, you can't preserve your IRC nick on QuakeNet. The P registration system is vital for Planetarion - how else could you be sure that the alliance HC that you're talking to is who they say they are?


That's enough to prove to me that NetGamers fulfils PA's needs better than QuakeNet can.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 00:08   #14
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
As Kargool pointed out, you can't preserve your IRC nick on QuakeNet. The P registration system is vital for Planetarion - how else could you be sure that the alliance HC that you're talking to is who they say they are?


That's enough to prove to me that NetGamers fulfils PA's needs better than QuakeNet can.

/whois NickName

-
Fr0sten is [email protected] * Nick Arnold
Fr0sten on +#planetarion
Fr0sten using wineasy2.se.quakenet.org WinEasy QuakeNet IRC Server
Fr0sten is authed as Fr0sten
Fr0sten has been idle 52secs, signed on Sun Sep 17 23:05:26
Fr0sten End of /WHOIS list.
-

There is even a verify command!
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 00:18   #15
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quakenet FAQ
Can I register my nickname?

QuakeNet does not use a nickname reservation service, such as NickServ, to reserve nicknames. As a result of this, you cannot register your nickname on QuakeNet. If a nickname is available, any user is allowed to use it.

However, this does NOT apply to the nicknames of IRC Operators, Helpers and Network Services, due to security related issues. If a user uses any of these nicknames, or similar nicknames, an operator may immediately disconnect the user from the network WITHOUT prior notice.

You can register a Q account with your nickname though, and the account is named after your current nick. But after that, it doesn't matter what nick you use. Basically, you can't create a Q account with name XYZ unless your nick is XYZ when you create it.

Explain to me the difference. From what I can see, other users can steal your nick any time they want. You cannot stop them using this nick. There is a QuakeNet registration service, but it gives you no power over the nickname itself.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 00:23   #16
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Still, the non holding of nicks leads to many problems!

I have used both cservice and cs/ns networks for years and run my own irc server on cs/ns and I much prefere the cservice system, I have never been a big fan of quakenet (incidently the network is named origonally after another game which seems a bit strange for us as another game 2 use!)
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 00:25   #17
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Lets face it. For what Planetarion users needs / want out of a nickserv QuakeNet is shit.

QuakeNet is not what Planetarion needs or wants in an IRC network.

As far as I can see, NetGamers will be Planetarions home until 1 of 2 things happens.

1. NG dies / gets blow up in a tragic Markb related incident.
2. We find away to build a large dome like bubble much in the same way the eden project works for us to all move in together and wage interstreet warfare. The galaxy system will be replaced with the "Street System" and your Planet becomes your "home". Complete with overpriced morgage and anoying old lady next door that complains about the volume of your HiFi.

To Summaries: NG Rocks. QN Doesn't.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 00:32   #18
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

ill resummarise for you: we're too lazy to move, so we won't.



amirite?
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 00:42   #19
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
ill resummarise for you: we're too lazy to move, so we won't.



amirite?
No.

QuakeNet does not provide the necessary futures that we need. These points have already been made by Kargool / furball / Kal above me so I shall not repeat themn and assume you actually read them.

Netgamers provides a good quality service on a network that is well known / respected. As Kal previously said, onlines games move to netgamers to host their IRC services.

NG is a far superior IRC communication solution than QN is for Planetarion's needs and regrowth.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 00:50   #20
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

well known by whom though? goto a newbie, heard of netgamers? huh. what about quakenet? oh yeah i heard of quake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
NG is a far superior IRC communication solution than QN is for Planetarion's needs and regrowth.
aye so i hear, maybe one day if its said enough times it might come true, and when that day comes we can all dance around trees with fairies and get some good earned fairy sex for all that 'regrowth' we done
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 01:05   #21
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

A quick comparison of the two networks:

Quakenet

+ Faster user registration
+ Easier to register channels (doesn't require someone to authorise every channel, not forced to have supporters at 499 access)
- No NickServ

NetGamers

+ Has nick registration services
- Can't hide owner of registered channels
- Out of date website/forums
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 01:37   #22
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Anyone who thinks that the quality of the services is what determines the quality of an IRC network is making a fairly basic error of judgement. For those who care about such things, I can appreciate that good services are important. But most people don't care, and wouldn't notice the difference. A sad truth for people who spend their time coding services, but truth nonetheless.

It's also worth pointing out that the fact that the majority of NG users like the NG services and are happy with the network also proves nothing. It's a self-selecting sample - by definition, people who use NG must be happy with the network or they wouldn't be using it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
QuakeNet does not provide the necessary futures that we need.
Who are 'we'? What features? (I assume 'futures' is a typo). What precise benefit do the NG services offer to the Planetarion community - by which I mean ordinary players. Would the loss of the NG services be such a great loss? I can also point out that, at various times, the network has operated with different services, and without services at all for a period of time. Life went on. Many alliances have, and some continue to, operate private servers also.

A far more salient fact is that QuakeNet currently has 80x as many users as NetGamers, which would constitute far more 'passing trade' for PA. The experience of alliances running private servers is useful here; one of the main reasons that this practice declined was that, as the playerbase and alliance sizes shrank, it was no longer practical to operate a server for such a small number of people. People spent more time talking on the busier network (NG being busier than the private network) because there were more people to talk to, and came to regard the private network as something of an annoyance. For many new players, it is the small, cliquey and (dare I say it) somewhat inbred NG network which must be the annoyance, the small network that Planetarion forces them to use if they want to play the game effectively. Relocating to a larger network would have the effect of minimising disruption and difficulty for new players who already use QuakeNet.

Whether QuakeNet is really the best place to go is a matter for debate. Is it a place where PA might expect to draw new players from? Would QuakeNet assist in promoting PA if PA moved there? If QuakeNet's size is an advantage, why not move to an even larger network?

The point is that the debate cannot be seen through the prism of 'who has the best services?'. Great services mean nothing if you don't have the userbase; ordinary people are not going to care about the advantages of P vs Q, they're going to care about how many people there are to talk to, and how many interesting and diverse channels exist, and how many of their existing friends already use the network. I'm not convinced that NetGamers really offers the best solution and given that it was NetGamers who themselves first broke the link with PA by rebranding themselves and dropping the 'Planetarion IRC Network' name, I should think that they have precious little grounds for complaint if PA does relocate. It's an idea that deserves full consideration, not a narrow debate about technical matters that are an irrelevance to many of the people who matter (the players).
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 07:33   #23
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

With reference to the partner thing - I think its probabaly more difficult that described - if jotl already met the requirements then I'm sure it woudl rleady be a partner considering one of its biggest competitors is a partner already... it might be that as with ng exsiting partners can block an application?
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 08:13   #24
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
With reference to the partner thing - I think its probabaly more difficult that described - if jotl already met the requirements then I'm sure it woudl rleady be a partner considering one of its biggest competitors is a partner already... it might be that as with ng exsiting partners can block an application?
its probably along those lines, multiplay has a strong prescence on quakenet - and they are jolts rival. It would not surprise me if they were blocking any application should they have partner status there.
As such planetarion would not be able to attain partner status on quakenet, not be able to have globals done and ultimately would be at a disadvantage compared to remaining on netgamers
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 08:36   #25
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
With reference to the partner thing - I think its probabaly more difficult that described - if jotl already met the requirements then I'm sure it woudl rleady be a partner considering one of its biggest competitors is a partner already... it might be that as with ng exsiting partners can block an application?
www.quakenet.org/server_application

thats all you need to fill in!

call the server planetarion.uk.eu.quakenet.org

I am sure the jolt irc server more than meets the requirement for qnet.

as for qnet there is more features than you know!

Quakenet
+ L (light weight for small channels(
+ Q (a more featured bot)
+ 24 hour help when you need it and on demand!
+ MIRC Help / Eggdrop help
+ Support for bots and the like >> im sure alliances will appreicate this!
+ No Limit to the number of channels you can register
+ The staff are polite and paitent
+ They have training channels for helping new users to learn there services
+ They are also constantly upgrading there IRC Network / Services
+ S (Anti Spam bot)
+ R (Request a service)
+ Extensive FAQ Websites
+ Quicker Nickname registration and mangement of channels
+ 80k + Userbase
+ RFC Complient Services / Servers
+ Quicker Connectity to locally based servers
+ Planetarion would grow in its userbase here.

Netgamers
- Limited to 3 channels
- You need supporters to register a channel
- Constant Spam Abuse
- Website is old / not updated
- Not much help at all.
- No Freedom of speach. Ie... you say something that is true and that Oper finds out you get g-lined on sight... of which I found out.
- Your personal IP / Fakenick is given out to the community for all to know about.
- Your nickname is registered to you no one else can use it and therefor abuse of the recovery command of which you will have your nickname suspended for using should someone complain.
- Netgamers is to be totally honest a shambles!


I there for ask the community to Call For Vote on a test move to Quakenet.

Basicly open a new mirc and connect to quakenet and join the normal channnels you would join on netgamers and encourage other people to do the same.

/server -m irc.quakenet.org
/join #planetarion

You will notice a few things @ #Planetarion on quakenet which are different than Netgamers its a more relaxed and more plesant experiance, We dont have a Pea! wahooo!! but we have ^x^ whos a nice little bot. And we also have "Planetarion" which is a bot I am developing.. which features the likes of the manual in a bot.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 08:43   #26
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

I remember that bot of yours. I also remember banning it from #planetarion because you cannot obey simple rules.
It is no doubt because of your inability to follow rules that you were g-lined, and crying about it will not change matters
You do not speak for the community, and never will.

to be frank, good riddance.

the probability of a vote being called is slim, and it is astronomically small that planetarion will ever move away from netgamers.
Furthermore, continuing to advertise quakenet here despite people telling you that it wont happen reeks of sour grapes.
"oh i was bad and got g-lined , but because i refuse to admit it im going to do everything i can to irritate and annoy netgamers now"

grow the **** up
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 08:46   #27
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
I remember that bot of yours. I also remember banning it from #planetarion because you cannot obey simple rules.
It is no doubt because of your inability to follow rules that you were g-lined, and crying about it will not change matters
You do not speak for the community, and never will.

to be frank, good riddance.

the probability of a vote being called is slim, and it is astronomically small that planetarion will ever move away from netgamers.
Furthermore, continuing to advertise quakenet here despite people telling you that it wont happen reeks of sour grapes.
"oh i was bad and got g-lined , but because i refuse to admit it im going to do everything i can to irritate and annoy netgamers now"

grow the **** up
How mature of you. And you do not remember that bot of mine! as I have only started coding the "Planetarion" bot which you talk to in PM and you can read the Planetarion Manual direct from an IRC Bot i thought this idea was great. And the added feature of being able to send notes / mail to the PA Team / Creators.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 08:51   #28
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Oh so you didnt ever have another bot with the "planetarion" nick in #planetarion i suppose
Its not only that bot which has been banned, pretty much every single one you put in there, including fsthosting which you adamantly said did nothing.
your bots, yourself and even the nick used to ban evade have been banned. You just do not get the hint.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 09:07   #29
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

hang on, stop confusing us fr0sten with the features, you have already done it with Kal.

Kal was talking about the Partner status or whatever the Quakenet equivilent is, and you provide a link to a server application, what good is that?

Quakenet does not have nickname registration, they have username registration.
Would you like it if someone else started using the nick fr0sten, and you couldn't regain control of that nick? With 100k users on QN, thats a LOT of fighting just for nicks let alone channels.

Another thing that puts me off other larger networks such as Quakenet is the huge amount of spam bots, I talk to another NetGamers user who also uses Quakenet and he has to have a private message blocker script just to stop all the spam that you'd get.

Pea for President!

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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 09:13   #30
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Fr0sten, conventionally when someone compares to services they look at the positives and negatives of both - rather than the positives of one and the negatives of the other...

For example some of your quakenet + apply just as much to ng as they do to quakenet. Additionally you fail to point out that getting Q is not something you can guarantee.

I'm also wondering where a lot of your netgamers negatives come from, as I raely encounter any of the problems you describe and as far as I am aware no one has ever come to PATeam complaining about how our partner has treated them.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 09:20   #31
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Fr0sten, conventionally when someone compares to services they look at the positives and negatives of both - rather than the positives of one and the negatives of the other...

For example some of your quakenet + apply just as much to ng as they do to quakenet. Additionally you fail to point out that getting Q is not something you can guarantee.

I'm also wondering where a lot of your netgamers negatives come from, as I raely encounter any of the problems you describe and as far as I am aware no one has ever come to PATeam complaining about how our partner has treated them.
The biggest mistake planetarion made was moving from planetarion irc!
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 09:45   #32
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sten
The biggest mistake planetarion made was moving from planetarion irc!
Afaik PA IRC died, and NetGamers was born. So I don't think PA had a choice in the matter
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 10:47   #33
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

they were intentionally seperated afaik in order to safeguard each other. If one went down, they both wouldnt die with it, etc.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 10:47   #34
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

I wish PA team and almost every other poster in this thread would start to seriously discuss this issue. Rob made a very good post which was sadly left uncommented due to some participants starting some fr0sten bashing.

In my opinion PA only benefits from switching to a bigger IRC network (not necessarily quakenet, but it must be a network significantly bigger than netgamers). Services - as Rob pointed out already - are only vital for those which care. The alliances demanding such services either run their own private IRC servers or have technical capabilities to create and run required irc bots.

So I'd like to ask PA Team which precise arguments speak against moving from NG to a bigger irc network?
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 10:49   #35
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Fr0sten

If we move to Qnet you would have the same problem, if you act like a child and keep breaking channel and server rules you would be banned just as quick from there as you are from netgamers. Tbh the problem as you see it isnt a problem with the network but its the fact your a complete moron.

Qnet has a bigger member base but that doesnt mean that pa will attract more players. Most of those people will be there already cause they play games like CS and Quake. Those people are much less inclined to try a browser based strategy game than someone who plays somthign like pia. Or the other games similer to pa that call netgamers there home.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 11:14   #36
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sten
www.quakenet.org/server_application

thats all you need to fill in!

call the server planetarion.uk.eu.quakenet.org

I am sure the jolt irc server more than meets the requirement for qnet.
thats not what was said, phil commented on other partners blackballing an application because jolt have rivals there with partner status already...filling that in would, tbh, be a futile gesture unless jolt got partnership first.

Quote:
as for qnet there is more features than you know!
afaik the more features the more complicated a thing gets...one of the aspects which put new players off irc is the complexity of it when they first join up...we dont want to make things even more difficult for them, especially if they cant have the same nick all the time as it would be on qnet

Quote:
Quakenet
+ L (light weight for small channels(
+ Q (a more featured bot)
+ 24 hour help when you need it and on demand!
+ MIRC Help / Eggdrop help
+ Support for bots and the like >> im sure alliances will appreicate this!
+ No Limit to the number of channels you can register
+ The staff are polite and paitent
+ They have training channels for helping new users to learn there services
+ They are also constantly upgrading there IRC Network / Services
+ S (Anti Spam bot)
+ R (Request a service)
+ Extensive FAQ Websites
+ Quicker Nickname registration and mangement of channels
+ 80k + Userbase
+ RFC Complient Services / Servers
+ Quicker Connectity to locally based servers
+ Planetarion would grow in its userbase here.
as kal said where are the negatives for an unbiased comparison?

to comment on one or two of your positives for qnet....
Quote:
+ Support for bots and the like >> im sure alliances will appreicate this!
to the extent of my knowledge no alliance has major problems with bots on netgamers..only you, and that is because you run too many at any time.

Quote:
+ The staff are polite and paitent
in my experience over the years i have been playing planetarion and been using irc if i ever have had a problem which is irc based i have found the cservice staff friendly, courteous and willing to help anyone out. What you have to remember is if you are rude and discourteous to them, then they will eventually refuse to help if you dont calm down and be polite...the same will happen on qnet.

Quote:
+ Quicker Nickname registration and mangement of channels
erm actually its username registration...as people have posted before...you arent 100% sure of keeping your irc nick the next time you are online...and as such would make running an alliance on qnet damned more complicated as you wouldnt know who you are talking to at times.

Quote:
Netgamers
- Limited to 3 channels
- You need supporters to register a channel
- Constant Spam Abuse
- Website is old / not updated
- Not much help at all.
- No Freedom of speach. Ie... you say something that is true and that Oper finds out you get g-lined on sight... of which I found out.
- Your personal IP / Fakenick is given out to the community for all to know about.
- Your nickname is registered to you no one else can use it and therefore abuse of the recovery command of which you will have your nickname suspended for using should someone complain.
- Netgamers is to be totally honest a shambles!
again where are the positives for unbiased opinion?
and tbh look at the last negative reason....if that doesnt show that all of this is personal for you, and in such it is now a grudge for you against netgamers then i dont know what.

Quote:
You'll notice a few things @ #Planetarion on quakenet which are different than Netgamers its a more relaxed and more plesant experiance, We dont have a Pea! wahooo!! but we have ^x^ whos a nice little bot. And we also have "Planetarion" which is a bot I am developing.. which features the likes of the manual in a bot.
Actually yes it is more relaxed, maybe cos when ever i have been on ...i've not seen anyone talk..unlike #planetarion on ng. Also i may be one of the few to defend pea, but planetarion is the equivalent of a pg rated game and as such then strict regulations have to be enforced in official game channels.
I think you'd realise this fr0sten if you actually followed netgamers rules for once.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 11:16   #37
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
So I'd like to ask PA Team which precise arguments speak against moving from NG to a bigger irc network?
Whilst i'm not PA Team, i think at the very minimum, Players who have P (or whatever) registered Nicks must be able to control them at all times - apparently, Quakenet does not do this which potentially means other networks dont do this too.

Further, What Squish said is somewhat true; players who are interested in browser based games should try and congregate together, which i am not sure Quakenet (etc) does, due to their fps type people i imagine would go there. Unless you could convince people who play FPSs to play PA between levels/maps/deaths etc.

As for Fr0sten; if you didnt act like such a muppet on Netgamers, and didnt insist on running fourteen different bots and the like etc, you wouldnt find yourself banned from this channel. I am unsure as to your motives, whether you've merely got an axe to grind at the NG crew who realise that you are a moron and wont tolerate your crap. Having said that, there is merit in discussing whether moving to a larger irc server network would be beneficial to the game and community.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 11:19   #38
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

The nick registration alone makes Netgamers 100 times more suitable for Planetarions needs that Quakenet is and is likely to ever be.

Could it be better, ofc it could and quite frankly I’ve often found those in charge of the network to come across as ‘little hitlers’ when it comes to attempts to discuss ways to make the network more suitable not just for PA players but other games which may use or consider to use the network.

The main thing in our advantage using this network is we are still a ‘big fish’ in a small pond and a ‘big fish’ that has partner status. This gives us some power to push for changes which we wouldn’t have on Quakenet where we would be a ‘small fish’ in a big pond and one that due to Multiplays partner status would almost certainly lock us out of ever getting partner status

Not to mention this community moved away from using dalnet and quakenet along time ago to move to the ‘Netgamers’ network and the communities now based around this network and moving it over would cause massive amounts of problems. If we do what you said and connect to Quakenet and join our usual channels some of them will land us in channels belonging to others and while some of these may not be a problem others would be. For example when I’ve joined other networks and my perform hasn’t been set up right and its started running it some channels have been already taken on these networks, ones that include channels like #f-crew which are vital for our alliance and are channels our alliance is well known to use. And while we can register our usernames on Quakenet and I believe a whois may even show what username you’re logged into we probably won’t get a lot of our well established usernames so even if everyone gets in the habit of double-checking the whois to make sure who they are talking to is who they intended to talk to

What we need to do is as a community and with PAteam and Jolts help as official Partners and perhaps with the help of other games represented on this network and people who maybe would like to move to this network start pushing for real changes to what possible and policy to make it more user-friendly. I know the alliances tried this a while back and NG’s were pretty much unresponsive to any change but if we keep on at them they cant keep ignoring us and we can try and make this network which is better suited for the game than any of the public networks ive used even better
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 11:19   #39
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

I've tidied the thread up a little - I've removed Fr0sten's rant about g-lines, and the replies which relate purely to that matter.

To Fr0sten: If you wish to make a complaint about NetGamers, use the correct means to do so. The suggestions forum is for suggestions, not complaints.

To everyone else: Debate Fr0sten's suggestion on its merits, not your personal view of Fr0sten or his motives.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 11:21   #40
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
stuff
While I undertand what you are saying I think you underesitmate the value of services.

One of the big reasons alliances used to use for not having private channels on NG was that the services did not offer what they wanted. What this means is that the community beocmes fragmented as everyone is chatting in different locations.

Therefore what we ideally want is a big network that has sufficent services that all PA players will use that networks IRC services withotu having to invest in private faciltiies. While netgamers may not be the biggest network in the world, we are in unique position through our partner agreement to influence the services and improve them for all pa players and the netgamers community as a whole.

While this may reduce our "passing trade", I'm not entirly convinced thats a big issue at this time as we probabaly arn't that appealing in our current state to the type of people that are on quakenet (that said we do aim to change this).

I think its also worth pointing out that in terms of growth strategies I would be in favour of slow growth where we develop over time, simply becuase we don't have the resources for huge step changes. So our aim should be to become the premier game on netgamers, and to attract players away from the other games similar to PA on the network and also to try and appeal to thoose games that arn't as similar.

Its also worth pointing out that in addition to our ability to influence services development we also have the ability to do globals, which one we have developed our image and marketing will become a much mroe signifcant factor than it is now. I find it quite unlikely that we would be able to buy the influence required for globals etc from any big network.

Now I could be entirly wrong - so if someone did present a sound case for moving to a specific network it would of course be considered, however a sound case for moving to quakenet has not been presented.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 11:23   #41
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
I wish PA team and almost every other poster in this thread would start to seriously discuss this issue. Rob made a very good post which was sadly left uncommented due to some participants starting some fr0sten bashing.

In my opinion PA only benefits from switching to a bigger IRC network (not necessarily quakenet, but it must be a network significantly bigger than netgamers). Services - as Rob pointed out already - are only vital for those which care. The alliances demanding such services either run their own private IRC servers or have technical capabilities to create and run required irc bots.

So I'd like to ask PA Team which precise arguments speak against moving from NG to a bigger irc network?
for the record the team arent averse to using quakenet, as appoco, chef and others do sit in #planetarion and have give it their support. Nor will they try to stop players from using that server if they wish...however what everyone in this thread is trying to point out to fr0sten is that although quakenet does have some advantages over netgamers, the reverse is also true and as such a totally unbiased comparison is needed..not a one sided one like his, as he has a grudge against the netgamers ops.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 11:24   #42
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
In my opinion PA only benefits from switching to a bigger IRC network (not necessarily quakenet, but it must be a network significantly bigger than netgamers). Services - as Rob pointed out already - are only vital for those which care. The alliances demanding such services either run their own private IRC servers or have technical capabilities to create and run required irc bots.
Yes because we all know that all the alliances have a tech team and have their own servers. Oh wait no they dont. Any argument that relies on the basis that people have the required knowledge and tech to implement their own version of the things that make NG suited pretty well for PA is as flawed as it comes

So unless someone TRUSTWORTHY is going to code and host a service for Quakenet that would give PA Players the features needed that the channel/nick services dont give, your going to have to come up with a better reason than that
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 11:49   #43
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Yes because we all know that all the alliances have a tech team and have their own servers. Oh wait no they dont. Any argument that relies on the basis that people have the required knowledge and tech to implement their own version of the things that make NG suited pretty well for PA is as flawed as it comes

So unless someone TRUSTWORTHY is going to code and host a service for Quakenet that would give PA Players the features needed that the channel/nick services dont give, your going to have to come up with a better reason than that
So in the end it boils down to:

1) Which nick/chan services features are critical to PA players?
2) Which IRC networks do provide them?
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 12:11   #44
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

If it was just a question of servers and userbase, we would move to Undernet.

Undernet services are very similar to NetGamers services, for the simple reason that they're both based on the same code (originally developed by Undernet). NetGamers has P, Undernet has X, and both do almost exactly the same thing ([P VERSION reply]: NetGamers P10 Channel Services II [Oct 29 2005 21:32:40] Release 1.2.22 and [X VERSION reply]: Undernet P10 Channel Services II [Feb 10 2006 16:07:27] Release 1.3).

However, NetGamers is an official partner of Planetarion, which means that NetGamers will do certain things to help promote Planetarion. I don't actually know precisely what those things are, so it's hard to judge how valuable they are, but it's unlikely that a network like Undernet would offer anything similar. The only advantage (although it might be a big advantage) is the larger userbase and potential to recruit new players from it.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 12:24   #45
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
However, NetGamers is an official partner of Planetarion, which means that NetGamers will do certain things to help promote Planetarion. I don't actually know precisely what those things are, so it's hard to judge how valuable they are, but it's unlikely that a network like Undernet would offer anything similar.
Its things like official channel flags, as many registered channels as pateam want, globals on request, a say in how the network is run and what other companies can join as a partner, etc.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 12:37   #46
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Cant say i've had any problems with NG staff.

Channel ownership changing - no problems - in fact when sethy lost his isp a few rounds back they were patient to the point of being saints.

banning spam bots - quick service

creating a channel - as long as u have supporters - quick service

creating a nick u can keep your own - quick service

ok the services take a bit of learning - but then so do all service commands and the website gives a good guide to what u can and cant do.

adding an extra connection in extenuating circumstances - quick, polite service.

theese are the things i have use them for over the years and tbh ... i find them quick, honest and open, treat anyone with respect and honesty and they will give u the same in return.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 13:06   #47
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
I wish PA team and almost every other poster in this thread would start to seriously discuss this issue. Rob made a very good post which was sadly left uncommented due to some participants starting some fr0sten bashing.

In my opinion PA only benefits from switching to a bigger IRC network (not necessarily quakenet, but it must be a network significantly bigger than netgamers). Services - as Rob pointed out already - are only vital for those which care. The alliances demanding such services either run their own private IRC servers or have technical capabilities to create and run required irc bots.

So I'd like to ask PA Team which precise arguments speak against moving from NG to a bigger irc network?
I was going to reply to Rob's post, but I'm not sure there was anything else to add bar saying how much I agreed with it. It's an excellent post, which really does deserve to be addressed by PA team.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 13:22   #48
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I was going to reply to Rob's post, but I'm not sure there was anything else to add bar saying how much I agreed with it. It's an excellent post, which really does deserve to be addressed by PA team.
which is why I replied to it.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 13:34   #49
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
So in the end it boils down to:

1) Which nick/chan services features are critical to PA players?
2) Which IRC networks do provide them?
i'd add and what irc networks holds the specific client base pa requires.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 13:58   #50
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Re: Expantion OF PA Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistwraith
i'd add and what irc networks holds the specific client base pa requires.
I liked the "big" word you used more, demographic
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