Planetarion Forums - [Discuss]1 ship class missing for each race

Makhil · 10 May 2005, 11:23

well you get the idea.
I find it ok for a Xan not to have any BS
what about:
Terrans have no FI (get 1 extra DE but need to revamp a few ships targeting)
Caths have no FR (viper becomes CO)
Zik have no DE (clipper becomes CR)

Gumbie · 10 May 2005, 11:32

You can't get rid of the fighter/interceptor/harpy :eek:

Ultimate Newbie · 10 May 2005, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makhil

well you get the idea.
I find it ok for a Xan not to have any BS
what about:
Terrans have no FI (get 1 extra DE but need to revamp a few ships targeting)
Caths have no FR (viper becomes CO)
Zik have no DE (clipper becomes CR)

well, actually i am intending to have a play around with this idea when i build R14's ship stats - however i personally feel that removing the low-eta alliance defence classes (ie, FI/CO) isnt a good idea no matter how crap the ships in those classes may be

.

But removing FR/DE/CR/BA is potentially viable.

Makhil · 10 May 2005, 11:42

could be that Terrans have no CO (Phoenix becomes FI)

Cannon_Fodder · 10 May 2005, 12:27

or that you switch the syren to something else?

wakey · 10 May 2005, 12:32

While i like the fact that as it is now each race has a ship class they are a little weak in i'm not sure totally removing a ship class is a good idea. I mean its fine for people in top 10 alliances and top 50 galaxies who will have access to the other races ships to allow this missing ship class to be covered and it might even be fine for the those in lower alliances or lower galaxies than this but if your in really poor alliance or are a solo player AND/OR your in a bad galaxy you are looking to be totally screwed under such a system

Cannon_Fodder · 10 May 2005, 12:40

Er, this isnt removing a ship or a targetted ship class from each race, its just moving classes about so there is one less to be targetted by the enemy, meaning easier attacking..

Banned · 11 May 2005, 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakey

While i like the fact that as it is now each race has a ship class they are a little weak in i'm not sure totally removing a ship class is a good idea. I mean its fine for people in top 10 alliances and top 50 galaxies who will have access to the other races ships to allow this missing ship class to be covered and it might even be fine for the those in lower alliances or lower galaxies than this but if your in really poor alliance or are a solo player AND/OR your in a bad galaxy you are looking to be totally screwed under such a system

What? Why? How is not having a BS class ship a weakness for Xan this round?

Gumbie · 11 May 2005, 08:22

In theory it's a strength as they can combine more ships with different targeting priorities under one shiptype for targetting evading. The only time it sucks is if you're getting fleetcaught and because of your focusing, only have fi, co, fr and PK.

Gio2k · 11 May 2005, 10:07

Cathaars with only co/fr/de targetting all other ship classes \o/
and we will pwn all

noah02 · 11 May 2005, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makhil

Terrans have no FI (get 1 extra DE but need to revamp a few ships targeting)

Please dont get rid of my harpys

As said below i am Terran till I quit and harpys are crap this round compared to the last one but still harpys are my l33t fleet

You would'nt beleive the missions they have been on.

god113 · 11 May 2005, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by noah02

Please dont get rid of my harpys

You and your harpys....

Appocomaster · 12 May 2005, 15:07

I think the tendancy here would be for all races bar perhaps Terran to drop bigger ships.
Xan could happily survive another round without Bs. Zik only have one De/Cr/Bs ship, and Cath are less and less dependant on their Bs over the rounds and so could happily drop them. Terran would probably end up dropping Cr/Fr.

I think the best point to make here is not that it *has* to happen, but that races aren't necessairly weakened (on their own) by missing a ship class. Obviously if lower class ships are missing it makes for worse defence with the alliance in general, but for example Cathaar's De fleet has, over the last couple of rounds, been fairly useful for defence, as have Beetles. This round, the Viper can also hold it's own.

Terran Phoenixes are also useful vs any Cath going Co, and while Terrans now suffer from Harpies being targetted by Xan Fi fleets, the majority of their Fr/ De targets ships the same class or higher, and so can be used for alliance defence - especially if the Terran is using Bs predominantly for roiding, so I feel that with weaker Fi/Co, while Xan are often one of the more popular choices for defence, and Zik love defence for stealing, Cathaar and Terran can defend with their powerful middle-sized ships.

I think that next round, if necessary, any class of ship can be dropped if it's seen to be more worthwhile to have that ship as a a different class than making sure all races have 6 classes, but I don't feel it should have to be enforced upon all the races.

Avenged · 31 May 2005, 01:56

surely it would leave the stats too open, making the game too hard for single players

Cannon_Fodder · 31 May 2005, 07:57

I would have thought:

Terran, no cr
Cath, no fr (make viper co)
Xan, no bs
Zik, no de

Give or take....

_Kila_ · 31 May 2005, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniborp

Cath, no fr (make viper co)

then what are my thiefs guna do when attacking a Cath?

Wandows · 31 May 2005, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

well, actually i am intending to have a play around with this idea when i build R14's ship stats - however i personally feel that removing the low-eta alliance defence classes (ie, FI/CO) isnt a good idea no matter how crap the ships in those classes may be

.

changing the shipclass doesn't nessecarily mean the eta will change.. Cath spiders could become CO for example, still having the valuable eta 7 def eta (mind this is only an example and would ofcourse need more changes to other races/ships in order to not screw up the overall stats :P). Same goes for any ship, a CR could easily be removed by making it BS instead... eta doesn't change just the class, not sure if this will make it hard to balance though (giving the ability of attackers to target possible defence ship classes and render it useless etc).

Cannon_Fodder · 31 May 2005, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Kila_

then what are my thiefs guna do when attacking a Cath?

They do very little atm anyway..

Appocomaster · 31 May 2005, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wandows

changing the shipclass doesn't nessecarily mean the eta will change.. Cath spiders could become CO for example, still having the valuable eta 7 def eta (mind this is only an example and would ofcourse need more changes to other races/ships in order to not screw up the overall stats :P). Same goes for any ship, a CR could easily be removed by making it BS instead... eta doesn't change just the class, not sure if this will make it hard to balance though (giving the ability of attackers to target possible defence ship classes and render it useless etc).

Soverign meant that, starting from scratch not just changing a couple of numbers etc on this round's stats, it's nice to have low ETA ships for alliance defence.
If you started say giving Terrans no Fi, one Co, etc then they're not going to be so helpful at alliance level (generally, although ofc lots of fr/de targetting its own classes and above would help

)

Wandows · 31 May 2005, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

Soverign meant that, starting from scratch not just changing a couple of numbers etc on this round's stats, it's nice to have low ETA ships for alliance defence.
If you started say giving Terrans no Fi, one Co, etc then they're not going to be so helpful at alliance level (generally, although ofc lots of fr/de targetting its own classes and above would help

)

Hmm i thought my reply would have prevented a reply like this. The point i had was that it is possible to remove Fi or Co from a race, i simply used the spider as reference instead of having to come up with a new ship.

For example you have a race:
Ship 1 class FI target FI
Ship 2 class CO target CO

either ship 1 could change class to CO without losing the eta on anti-FI. and if you have 2 races for CO anti-FI, 2 races with FI anti-FI, 2 races with FI anti-CO and 2 races with CO anti-CO you will have it balanced enough to be able to through something against any attacking FI/CO fleet and the option of removing a eta 7 ship class from a race. This is ofcourse a very simply and basic comparison and i know the stats won't be that static (i hope not atleast

), but it is possible. I just don't know if it will be easy to balance, but if you look at the harpy for example, i haven't seen many terrans with any, so they wouldn't be a big loss.

Gate · 31 May 2005, 15:27

Harpy=CO?

It's a thought, atleast. Problem then is that with current stats, Xand vsh based attack fleets would be even harder to stop... harpies have made me recall on many occasions because in the majority of cases, I will keep my sentinels home to defend ally mates anyway!

If something like this happens, I think it's only right that terrans lose a smaller ship, FI, CO or maybe just FR...

Squidly · 31 May 2005, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gate

Harpy=CO?

It's a thought, atleast. Problem then is that with current stats, Xand vsh based attack fleets would be even harder to stop... harpies have made me recall on many occasions because in the majority of cases, I will keep my sentinels home to defend ally mates anyway!

If something like this happens, I think it's only right that terrans lose a smaller ship, FI, CO or maybe just FR...

Gatey dearest, you have just explained why you're currently rank 1400

Squidly · 31 May 2005, 15:47

If clippers aren't DE anymore... would they become CR then? O_o That'll just make zik frigs even harder to stop.... clip defence against ziks is quite useful

Wandows · 31 May 2005, 15:56

i think its irrelavent to base this idea on the current stats. It is normal to assume there will be a complete set of new stats for all ships, different names(maybe), ship class, target class, efficiency. You can't possible say "but if they make my dear r-13 ship this class.. it will be messed up!", as chances are that ships don't even remotely resemble what we had for this round

Gary · 1 Jun 2005, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

and Cath are less and less dependant on their Bs over the rounds and so could happily drop them.

The only thing about that is the cathaars like me who have built lots of guardians to save their bp m8's while their roach have been out attacking

I would be sad to see them go tbh - even if they are really expensive. I like to see Guardians as my little salvage collectors against over confident Ziks

noah02 · 1 Jun 2005, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gate

Harpy=CO?

It's a thought, atleast. Problem then is that with current stats, Xand vsh based attack fleets would be even harder to stop... harpies have made me recall on many occasions because in the majority of cases, I will keep my sentinels home to defend ally mates anyway!

If something like this happens, I think it's only right that terrans lose a smaller ship, FI, CO or maybe just FR...

I already said don't touch my harpys.

But i do agree what someone said ^^ about if terran get rid of anything it should be cruisers as everyround i have ever played most i ever bothered buying is about 200.

ChubbyChecker · 1 Jun 2005, 22:17

I really don't see the point in doing this. It just narrows the tactical options available.

noah02 · 1 Jun 2005, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker

I really don't see the point in doing this. It just narrows the tactical options available.

tiz coz we bored and just throwing whatever comes into are heads onto this board

zen · 4 Jun 2005, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by noah02

Please dont get rid of my harpys

As said below i am Terran till I quit and harpys are crap this round compared to the last one but still harpys are my l33t fleet

You would'nt beleive the missions they have been on.

Would you like to share what kind of mission they've been on?

it's rather interesting from mypoint of view, as i also symphatise terrans.

Gate · 4 Jun 2005, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squidly

Gatey dearest, you have just explained why you're currently rank 1400

But it also helps explain why I have over 175 defpoints, and why I make DCs cry with joy every single night by covering about a bunch of FI calls on meh own \o/

Quote:

Originally Posted by noah02

I already said don't touch my harpys.

But i do agree what someone said ^^ about if terran get rid of anything it should be cruisers as everyround i have ever played most i ever bothered buying is about 200.

Does kinda go against Terran 'bigger is better' mantra though, I always though terran fleets should be 'encouraged' to build bigger ships.