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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 03:08   #1
Vaio
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Zacarias Moussaoui

It can't be just me that feels uncomfortable about his trial.

I appreciate that he is going to be convicted for his part in 9/11 but what exactly is the point of the cockpit recordings/phone recordings etc ?

Are they trying to get a conviction or get more public support for actions in Iraq and probably Iran later ?

DDA explain please, ta
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 03:10   #2
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

Go go gadget death penalty, I guess...
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 03:26   #3
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

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Originally Posted by JamMak
Go go gadget death penalty, I guess...
Looks like it, but surely it must be unconstitutional to guilt the jury into giving him the death penalty.
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 03:54   #4
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

its appeal to emotion, simple as.
Hes going to be found guilty regardless, its merely 'sauce for the goose'
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 04:28   #5
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

Even by US standards the trial has dragged on too long and what happened on the airplanes does not directly involve Moussaoui. It only shows what he might have done had he been there.

Personally I think the trial is sham to appease the public and take the focus off what Bush is doing elsewhere.

Btw did anyone follow what happened to the Enron executives that mostly got handslaps? And gas prices in the US are soaring to new heights and oh yeah little Georgie Bush grew up with most of those folks (Oil & Gas) and now they are all getting richer. Looks like Bush is getting his reward on earth.
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 04:50   #6
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Even by US standards the trial has dragged on too long and what happened on the airplanes does not directly involve Moussaoui. It only shows what he might have done had he been there.

Personally I think the trial is sham to appease the public and take the focus off what Bush is doing elsewhere.

Btw did anyone follow what happened to the Enron executives that mostly got handslaps? And gas prices in the US are soaring to new heights and oh yeah little Georgie Bush grew up with most of those folks (Oil & Gas) and now they are all getting richer. Looks like Bush is getting his reward on earth.
Will he goto hell?
Edit: Bush
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 09:13   #7
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
its appeal to emotion, simple as.
Hes going to be found guilty regardless, its merely 'sauce for the goose'
Surely any vaguely competent liar will be able to get him off the death penalty by virtue of overly emotive evidence or something. I think I read the prosecution was actually warned not to go too far in this.
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 09:23   #8
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

there were all the pictures of burnt victims of the pentagon crash shown as well.
the defence objected but the judge allowed it.

it sounds like a complete farce.
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 09:24   #9
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

There's something blackly hilarious about someone who shouts "Burn in the USA" during his trial related to terrorist atrocities. Obviously the US are pretty keen to execute him but he doesn't seem to be doing his best to resist such a thing either.
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 09:40   #10
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
It can't be just me that feels uncomfortable about his trial.

I appreciate that he is going to be convicted for his part in 9/11 but what exactly is the point of the cockpit recordings/phone recordings etc ?

Are they trying to get a conviction or get more public support for actions in Iraq and probably Iran later ?

DDA explain please, ta
Right, if i'm going to be of any use to explaining what's going on I'm going to first of all set out some basic facts.

1) Zacarias Moussaoui pleaded guilty to 6 offences in April 2005.
2) Those 6 offences were all offences of conspiracy (that means 'working with') with the dead hyjackers in order to committ the september 11th offenses.
3) Having pleaded guilty he has already been convicted.
4) What is happening now is a hearing with a jury (i think the term 'trial' is misleading to you because a 'trial' is usually what happens when somebody pleads not guilty)
5) This hearing is to determine whether Zacarias Moussaoui should be executed or face life imprisonment: it is a sentencing hearing.


Now if any of what i've said so far needs clarification just ask.

So in particular relation to showing the images and the playing of tapes, the argument runs like this:

Zacarias Moussaoui is guilty of conspiracy to cause september 11th. This hearing with a jury is specifically to determine how serious those offences (committed on septermber 11th) were and thus what the appropriate punishment (sentence is). Therefore when considering this question the jury should be supplied with evidence which indicates how serious (or how not serious) the offences which Zacarias Moussaoui committed were.

Clearly that has to be balanced with issues of prejudice. But it's not prejudice to show the jury accurate and truthful evidence.

For example: In a sentencing hearing for a stabbing. It wouldn't be prejudicial to show the jury pictures of the stab wound which the defendant caused. The jury need such evidence in order to determine the appropriate punishment.
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 10:19   #11
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

Is it normal for sentencing hearings to take place this long after the actual ' trial ', or is that down to the seriousness of the facts or complexity or whatever? ( Around here, normally a verdict (which includes the sentencing though) is within 6-8 weeks of the actual trial ).

Just wondering...
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 18:58   #12
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

Since there was no "guilt phase" tiral, the "penalty phase" trial could be held whenever the sides and the court agreed.

There was a phase of the trial to determine whether or not the circumstances of his involvement constituted acts which made him eligible for the death penalty. This phase is over and they immediately moved on to the penalty phase.

Yahwe is correct. (Sorry to be stating the obvious, Steven)
In death cases, in most jurisdictions in the US, one of the things which can be presented to the jury at the "penalty phase" is something called "victim impact" evidence. This encompases a wide latitude of information, including statements by victims (family of persons murdered are considered to be victims) informing the jury of the impact upon the lives of those who survive the murder victim. Just as in a theft case a victim of the theft could come forward and explain that the theft of his wooded leg was an exceptional hardship.

On the other hand, the jury is permitted to consider any factor in mitigation. If the convicted is a brilliant artist or has done a number of good deeds in his life, all of this can be presented to the jury by the defence.

All of that being said, Mr. Z seems to want to be a martyr and the defence is going to argue that the jury should deny him that martyrdom because he has lied about how involved he was and just to thwart him. That spending the rest of his life in prison would be a harsher punishment under the circumstances that would death.

I think it is unlikely that martyrdom will be denied him.
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 19:14   #13
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

Wait I'm confused; he wants to be executed, but his defence team is arguing against it? Why doesnt he just sack them?
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 19:20   #14
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

public defenders arent they ?
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 19:33   #15
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

Can the mentally ill defend themselves in court?
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Unread 13 Apr 2006, 20:16   #16
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Re: Zacarias Moussaoui

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Wait I'm confused; he wants to be executed, but his defence team is arguing against it? Why doesnt he just sack them?
he's already sacked too many counsel

innit.
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