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10 Nov 2005, 00:21
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4419796.stm
So now American kids will need to be taught about alternatives (such as God) to evolution.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/walkthrough/
But it's not all bad, at least they can go on a fied trip here.
the cynic in me wants to see the whole thing as being a plot to make this 'museum' more money, but I fear it's a genuine religious thing.
But it's not just you crazy yanks that are going nutty. Good old tony Blair wants to introduce a curriculem for the under fives.
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...20051109231527
Good idea, let's see how babies cope when put under intense pressure nearly from birth. Let's see how many school shootings we get.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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10 Nov 2005, 00:32
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#2
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
I saw the Rev. Jerry Falwell and a scientist on Good Morning America (or some such) this morning. Rev. Fallwell was saying what a wonderful thing it was that Kansas was doing. The scientist was so stunned that he was almost incoherent.
Fallwell expressed his belief that science required more faith than did religion because you had to believe that something just happened to come from nothing and life just happened against all of the odds.
I found myself shouting at the television set, "Then where did god come from you ignorant f**k?"
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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10 Nov 2005, 00:36
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#3
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
On the bright side, apparently :
Quote:
Eight school board members in Pennsylvania who supported an alternative to Darwin's theory of evolution lost their seats to evolution supporters.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4417560.stm
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10 Nov 2005, 09:53
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#4
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Heh, Leeds !
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
I think the reason creationists fail to understand evolution is because they have yet to try it.
__________________
The George Harrison of BlueTuba
Yes, I know he is dead !
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10 Nov 2005, 10:24
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#5
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saint-ciboire de tabarnac
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 244
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
george bush is a 40 year old child
he wants all the other children of the universe to be like him
this is a great day for education.
Quote:
Today's Rep Tosser 1 Nov 2005 12:41 You are shit
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GJ using my idea from 2 months ago.
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10 Nov 2005, 10:31
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#6
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Tilting at windmills
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 579
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
George Bush now controlls the Kansas State Board of Education?
And here it was me thinking they are a group of misguided religious conservatives from the Southwest.
Apparently somone else is pulling their strings.
Logic Wept
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10 Nov 2005, 10:42
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#7
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saint-ciboire de tabarnac
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 244
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
the Kansas State Board of Education has been bribed with oil money to vote this way by the 40 year old child george bush
"Steve Abrams" more like Steve A. Bush
we need to plant anti-terrorist seeds into the minds of our youth
we need more brave Christian warriors to spread justice and freedom to those in need
these are just some of the goals of the Bush Administration
Last edited by Duncan; 10 Nov 2005 at 11:09.
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10 Nov 2005, 10:43
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
hey guyz evolution must be true check dis out: www.bushorchimp.com
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10 Nov 2005, 10:46
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#9
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saint-ciboire de tabarnac
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 244
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
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gwhafhahahafhah bush looks like a monkey
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10 Nov 2005, 10:48
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#10
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 433
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
gwhafhahahafhah bush is a monkey
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modified for truth
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10 Nov 2005, 11:03
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#11
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saint-ciboire de tabarnac
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 244
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
^^^^^^^^^^^^
word
the current wave of creationist propaganda is to HIDE THIS TRUTH
if only someone put the 40 year old monkey child back into his cage blood for oil would stop and we could all take out our bongs and smoke in peace
this world is so corrupt
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10 Nov 2005, 12:53
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#12
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Why are people surprised that those who live outside of the reach of the civilised world do this kind of thing?
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10 Nov 2005, 19:09
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#13
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WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
[quote] Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire.../[quote]
Here I was thinking this was something about angry, gruff, drunk children...
"Hey, Surly only looks after one guy..Surly!"
"Sorry Surly"
"Shut up".
__________________
I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
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10 Nov 2005, 19:28
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#14
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Why are people surprised that those who live outside of the reach of the civilised world do this kind of thing?
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Because we exist in a state of mild delerium which makes us believe that people want to teach things that are true to children.
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10 Nov 2005, 19:44
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#15
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooling
George Bush now controlls the Kansas State Board of Education?
And here it was me thinking they are a group of misguided religious conservatives from the Southwest.
Apparently somone else is pulling their strings.
Logic Wept
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Kansas is in the Midwest.
Geography wept.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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10 Nov 2005, 20:51
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#16
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Because we exist in a state of mild delerium which makes us believe that people want to teach things that are true to children.
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I'm not sure there's any meaningful curriculum that everyone would agree is true. Someone would find fault with some aspect of every one, because of intelligent design or political correctness or whatever; and if you remove everything controversial then someone will object to that. It's only a question of who gets to decide which "truths" are taught to which children.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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10 Nov 2005, 22:07
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#17
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Heh, Leeds !
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
george bush is a 40 year old child
he wants all the other children of the universe to be like him
this is a great day for education.
GJ using my idea from 2 months ago.
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It is a good idea,
I see you are using Charles Babbage's idea from over 100 years ago
__________________
The George Harrison of BlueTuba
Yes, I know he is dead !
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10 Nov 2005, 22:26
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#18
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I'm not sure there's any meaningful curriculum that everyone would agree is true. Someone would find fault with some aspect of every one, because of intelligent design or political correctness or whatever; and if you remove everything controversial then someone will object to that. It's only a question of who gets to decide which "truths" are taught to which children.
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my god, have we finally found the one subject upon which tacticus agrees with the american nutjobs rather than the rest of the world? (hehehe)
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lazy
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10 Nov 2005, 22:33
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#19
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Don't make me declare war
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,913
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
But it's not just you crazy yanks that are going nutty. Good old tony Blair wants to introduce a curriculem for the under fives.
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...20051109231527
Good idea, let's see how babies cope when put under intense pressure nearly from birth.
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That is taken entirely out of context.
In most nurseries, children already learn maths and english.
They have there toes counted as they put thier socks on for instance, or count out how many fingers they have.
This SHOULD happen. It is NOT intense pressure, its learning through play.
All the government is proposing is that this is extended so that proof is shown it is happening in EVERY nursery.
Whilst I am not agreeing, or disagreeing, with the government until I see the proper proposals and how they intend to monitor this, I think it needs to be quite clear, children won't be sat down and taking lessons as such.
I think actually it is a very sad state of affairs that this is even needed, parents should ALL be doing this all the time. Talking to there children, counting, prounouncing words correctly. Truth is, a huge percentage of children can't even pronounce words properly, so there is no chance of them even getting the sounds right when they write at school.
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10 Nov 2005, 22:41
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I'm not sure there's any meaningful curriculum that everyone would agree is true. Someone would find fault with some aspect of every one, because of intelligent design or political correctness or whatever; and if you remove everything controversial then someone will object to that. It's only a question of who gets to decide which "truths" are taught to which children.
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While there are certainly a lot of power issues involved in deciding which versions of reality receive the official stamp of approval, your post seems close to outright relativism. It's one thing to acknowledge that any curriculum will reflect the ideology of whichever people happen to have power and influence at the time its drawn up, but it's quite another to suggest that everything people disagree over is automatically on an equal footing. While the current popularity of evolutionary theory is largely a result of sociological factors involving our attitudes towards the claims of scientists, this doesnt imply that intelligent design is anything but arbitrary, no more deserving to be taught than the creation myths of the Sumerians or Greeks.
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11 Nov 2005, 02:01
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#21
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
The topic of "intelligent design" makes me incoherent with rage whenever it's mentioned.
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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11 Nov 2005, 02:09
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#22
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
The topic of "intelligent design" makes me incoherent with rage whenever it's mentioned.
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It is frustrating but not as bad as unintelligent design.
The strict creationist who adamantly spout that the earth is no more than 6-7 thousand years old because of the ages of the prophets in Genisis or some such. They brush aside any and all scientific evidence to the contrary. I was once told that dinosaurs and other fossil evidence was stuff that was put there by the devil to mislead the faithfull.
It is such stunning stupidity that you can't reply coherently.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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11 Nov 2005, 02:16
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#23
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
The only way to counter absurdity is to become even more absurd than the person you're arguing against.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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11 Nov 2005, 07:11
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#24
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
While there are certainly a lot of power issues involved in deciding which versions of reality receive the official stamp of approval, your post seems close to outright relativism. It's one thing to acknowledge that any curriculum will reflect the ideology of whichever people happen to have power and influence at the time its drawn up, but it's quite another to suggest that everything people disagree over is automatically on an equal footing. While the current popularity of evolutionary theory is largely a result of sociological factors involving our attitudes towards the claims of scientists, this doesnt imply that intelligent design is anything but arbitrary, no more deserving to be taught than the creation myths of the Sumerians or Greeks.
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But who decides what is deserving to be taught? And as soon as you conclude there's only one right curriculum then how can you enforce that without some sort of state sanction? Whatever authority the state puts in charge of that definition can screw it up ( e.g., the Kansas Board of Education) and what alternatives do you have if/when that happens?
I'd prefer to get the state out of the education business (or at least out of the curriculum business) and let people choose their own curricula from whatever the market can provide. Some people will choose to have their children learn creationism or intelligent design, but there are already some private religious schools which are undoubtably already teaching that, so that's nothing new. Everyone would have choices but more importantly, no one--not even the majority--would be in the position to impose their curriculum on anyone else.
I believe the state should be relatively neutral towards education, not because of a sense of relativism but because a state which has the power to kick intelligent design out of the schools also has the power to put it in (as the residents of Kansas have unfortunately discovered).
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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11 Nov 2005, 09:27
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#25
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I'm not sure there's any meaningful curriculum that everyone would agree is true. Someone would find fault with some aspect of every one, because of intelligent design or political correctness or whatever; and if you remove everything controversial then someone will object to that. It's only a question of who gets to decide which "truths" are taught to which children.
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Well, it's objective truth that ID isn't scientific, for a start. Lets start with removing things that are objectively false, shall we?
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11 Nov 2005, 14:54
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#26
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Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
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FYI. Only a very small percentage of American kids go to school in Kansas.
__________________
"We sleep safe at night in our beds because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who wish to do us harm." -- George Orwell.
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11 Nov 2005, 15:01
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#28
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
FYI. Only a very small percentage of American kids go to school in Kansas.
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FYI "american kids" means "kids who are american". Your interpretation is only valid as a reply to "the kids of america".
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11 Nov 2005, 15:32
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#29
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
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Speaking as someone who regularly communes with the almighty I can most definitely guarantee that his wife has sex with a large semi-atheist islamic black man named Marvin who "does the garden".
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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11 Nov 2005, 15:35
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#30
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Speaking as someone who regularly communes with the almighty I can most definitely guarantee that his wife has sex with a large semi-atheist islamic black man named Marvin who "does the garden".
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Can you get his phone number for me please?
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11 Nov 2005, 15:36
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#31
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Can you get his phone number for me please?
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God or Marvin?
(Never thought I'd be asking that question again.)
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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12 Nov 2005, 00:23
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#32
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Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
FYI "american kids" means "kids who are american". Your interpretation is only valid as a reply to "the kids of america".
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Most "kids who are american" don't go to school in kansas.
__________________
"We sleep safe at night in our beds because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who wish to do us harm." -- George Orwell.
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12 Nov 2005, 00:46
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#33
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Most "kids who are american" don't go to school in kansas.
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I don't feel that you have a point.
__________________
hi
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12 Nov 2005, 08:42
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#34
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Most "kids who are american" don't go to school in kansas.
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Some american kids are called "Billy".
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12 Nov 2005, 14:42
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#35
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
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12 Nov 2005, 14:49
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#36
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
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Dante hates MM posts
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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12 Nov 2005, 15:03
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#37
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Dante hates MM posts
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Sorry, I missed that first time round. I expect the geek, secular equivalent of a fatwah.
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12 Nov 2005, 16:21
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#38
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
btw, someone should e-mail him and say 'You just rejected Science from your life. Please don't bother calling a doctor when you get prostate cancer.'
P.S Dante you may miss my posts but I still want to give you a blowjob.
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12 Nov 2005, 18:58
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#39
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Held Back
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ankaa Millers
Posts: 799
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
^ Surely it's not (demanded or) common practice for the medical students to run the hospitals either.
"The board ordered schools to read students a short statement in biology classes informing them that the theory of evolution is not established fact and that gaps exist in it."
Teach bad science for the win?
__________________
The dark wind howls...
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12 Nov 2005, 19:11
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#40
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...
I assume that, in the strict philosophical tradition they've adopted, they'll also be stating that your classmates might not exist so it could be okay to kill them and use their skin for curtains?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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